Other transcripts

Transcripts

June 8, 2005

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
· Arizona's medical marijuana law;
· Drought Update/Business Water Conservation;
· Celiac disease: digestive illness that affects people when they eat certain grains or foods
In-Studio Guests:
· Paul Bender, ASU law professor;
· Charlie Ester, SRP hydrologist;
· Jay Hicks, landscape architect and executive board member, Valley Forward

>> Michael Grant:
Tonight on "Horizon," Arizona's medical marijuana law allows the use of the drug if prescribed by a doctor, but this week the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the state laws don't protect users from a federal ban on marijuana. Plus an update on our Valley's water resources and a look at how businesses can benefit by conserving water. And a serious digestive illness that affects people when they eat certain grains and foods. That's next on "Horizon."

>> Michael Grant:
Good evening, I'm Michael Grant. Welcome to "Horizon." Those stories in a moment. First, two former America West pilots, one from Arizona, have been convicted of operating an aircraft while drunk. On July 1st, 2002, their jet bound for Phoenix was being pushed back from its gate at Miami international airport when the odor of alcohol was noticed. Police ordered the jet to return. The pilots had been on a drinking spree until 4:40 that morning. They have been fired by America West, lost their commercial pilot's license. They now face a sentence ranging from probation to five years in state prison. The U.S. Supreme Court concluded on Monday that marijuana can't be legally used to treat illness. Federal authorities may prosecute people whose doctors prescribe marijuana to relieve pain and other symptoms that often accompany AIDS, cancer and other diseases. The Supreme Court case concerned a couple of California women. Those women had sued then U.S. Attorney general John Ashcroft asking for a court order letting them smoke, grow or obtain marijuana for their debilitating diseases without fear of arrest, home raids or other intrusion by federal authorities. Here to talk about the Supreme Court decision is ASU law professor Paul Bender. Paul, it's been a while. It's good to see you.

>> Paul Bender:
Yeah, well, the end of the Supreme Court term is coming so we will be seeing each other once in a while.

>> Michael Grant:
That's right, and we don't want to steal too much of that thunder, but this is an interesting decision. Give us a brief factual look at what was going on.

>> Paul Bender:
These are two women who were very ill, I'm not really clear about what the illnesses are, but they have been prescribed marijuana. One says she will not be able to live without it because she can't eat and marijuana gives her enough appetite to eat, otherwise she would not eat and die. I forget what the other one is. They have a real medical need and they say and the doctors agree that marijuana is the best thing for them, and there's nothing else that can relieve their symptoms. So one has been growing her own marijuana in her own backyard and using it and the other one is too debilitated to do that, so two friends of hers have been growing it for her and giving it to her. The Feds for reasons beyond me staged a raid on their house. The sheriff, the California sheriff went along. As you said before, California has a law that permits people to use marijuana for medical purposes if they have a prescription like Arizona. So the Feds raid the -- one of the women's houses and try to seize her marijuana plants. The sheriff comes and the sheriff says they're not breaking the law. Go away. The Feds say, no, we're not going to away. We're going to enforce federal law, which says it's a crime to possess marijuana no matter where you got it from, even if you grow it in your own backyard.

>> Michael Grant:
Even though you have a state statute that allows this, federal law trumps that.

>> Paul Bender:
Right. And so we're seize -- they seized the plants and then the women bring an injunction suit to try to stop the Feds from doing that again. It's a little bit of a phony lawsuit because the chances of the Feds doing that again I think are very small.

>> Michael Grant:
Although you do wonder, as you do, what it was that directed federal authorities attention to this woman's backyard.

>> Paul Bender:
I have no idea what was going on. Anyway, the case is really important because the issue is not what you might think, namely whether I have a right to smoke marijuana to relieve my symptoms or a right under the due process clause or a right under privacy things. Those issues are in the case but they weren't before the Supreme Court because the 9th circuit didn't get to those issues. It said that even if you don't have a right to smoke marijuana that you grow, the federal government does not have the power to stop you because it doesn't have any affirmative grant of authority to do that. The federal government can only regulate things that the constitution says they can regulate. The only thing would that apply here is the interstate commerce clause, and the 9th circuit said there's no interstate commerce in this stuff. It's grown in the backyard or somebody else's backyard. It's not even commerce because nobody -- because nobody is paying for it and therefore the federal government has no power to do that. That followed upon two very important Supreme Court cases in the last 10 years striking down important federal legislation on the same ground.

>> Michael Grant:
One of those being the guns within in a certain distance of schools that the court had struck down.

>> Paul Bender:
Right. And the 9th circuit relied on those cases. On the Supreme Court, those cases were 5-4. So the four justices who wanted to uphold power in the Lopez case, that's the gun case, the four more liberal people on the court, voted to uphold federal power here except for Justice Stevens who for some reason deserted -- no, I'm sorry, Justice Stevens said there was federal power. All four of those voted, and two of the five on the other side, Justices Kennedy and Scalia, deserted the conservatives and suddenly found that the federal government could regulate something even though it had no economic effect directly and even though had it had nothing to do with interstate commerce. That raises the question of whether that 5-4 holding, which for the first time in 50, 60 years was putting serious limits on Congress's power to legislate, whether that's breaking down and -- for example, one thing that comes to mind is the partial birth abortion law that Congress passed. Where does Congress get the power to ban partial birth abortion? Is that because it affects interstate commerce? So there are a bunch of things that Congress has done even though Congress says it respects state rights sometimes they don't and the court has been striking those things down 5-4 but now in this case it shifted and two of the people who had been striking things down, Scalia and Kennedy, joined with the liberals to uphold federal power.

>> Michael Grant:
Now, Paul, if I recall correctly, that actually over the years about 10 or 11 states had passed laws of this nature, if you had a prescription for the marijuana, you could use it. Arizona, of course, being one of those. This isn't something that Arizona really could somehow change its law -- of course, it was passed by the people.

>> Paul Bender:
Not by itself. There's nothing Arizona can do. In fact, though, as I said before, I don't think the federal government is going to enforce this against the people. The problem is the doctors. The federal government will take away a doctor's ability to prescribe medicine if the doctor violates the law saying he can prescribe marijuana, and so people can't get prescriptions because doctors are afraid and legitimately so to do that. So it has a big impact on a place like Arizona and there's nothing Arizona itself can do about it. The only way this can be changed is for Congress to make an exception to the drug laws for medical marijuana use, medical marijuana use in states that permit it; they could do a number of different things. That would be one way. The other way is marijuana is a schedule 1 drug, and schedule 1 drugs you can't use for medical purposes. Schedule 2 drugs, including cocaine, you can. Somebody could move marijuana from schedule 1 to schedule 2. That somebody is the Attorney General of the United States. Now, I don't think there's a chance Ashcroft would have done that, but maybe Attorney General Gonzalez will do that. And maybe Congress will enact legislation. After all, there are exceptions to the federal drug laws for religious uses, peyote, for example.

>> Michael Grant:
But those grounded somewhat, that one particular one has been grounded somewhat in the first amendment.

>> Paul Bender:
Sure. About how about people's right to deal with pain, to relieve symptoms to save their lives.

>> Michael Grant:
Although little consolation, it was a very sympathetic majority opinion.

>> Paul Bender:
Justice Stevens says, don't blame us. Congress could do something about this if it wants to. So there's a real invitation for Congress to do something. It will be interesting to see if they do.

>> Michael Grant:
Paul Bender, we hope the Supreme Court will be shutting down later this --

>> Paul Bender:
The most interesting thing that's about to happen is whether chief justice Rehnquist will retire or not. There's a good chance he will because he's been so ill, and if he does that, he would do that on the last day of the term, which will be somewhere around the last week in June, and, of course, if he retires then we're going to have an enormous political battle over who his successor will be.

>> Michael Grant:
Well, in fact, as you well know, that's been one of the reasons why this high-stakes game has been going on in terms of the filibusters in the Senate, is anticipating the next big one is going to be --

>> Paul Bender:
Rehnquist may just -- judge dues this sometimes, may just say, hey, guys, I ain't retiring. Judges are very hard to get off the bench, but he has been very ill. I would love to see him stay just because it would be a nice thing that has conquered this illness for a while but I think it's a good chance he won't.

>> Michael Grant:
Paul Bender, thank you very much. Salt River reservoir system 95% full. Is the Metro area still in a drought? With our limited water supply, how can businesses conserve water, continue to be motivated to be good stewards are water resources? One Valley organization has printed 5,000 brochures to send out to large and small business and anybody interested in learning more about conserving water. Merry Lucero reports.

>> Merry Lucero:
We all use water, in our homes, yards and businesses. Water conservation isn't always a priority, especially when there is conflicting information about water resources.

>> Diane Brossart:
Even those in the water business, providers, don't always agree on water management strategies, on how much water is available, where we get our water from. So we felt like it would be important to at least put together some basic information that water 101, if you want to call it that, but for the business community to get them interested and vested in the issue.

>> Merry Lucero:
So environmental public awareness group Valley forward is sending out information to help educate businesses on the topic. Diane Brossart is the organization's president.

>> Diane Brossart:
I think the brochure first hopefully will pique their interest to get more information. This isn't -- it's a small piece. There's a lot more information out there, but if we can at least get them interested in the issue and thinking in a water stewardship manner, then we've been successful.

>> Merry Lucero:
The challenge, how to motivate businesses to be concerned with conserving perhaps our most precious natural resource, water, as much as with making profits.

>> Diane Brossart:
Water is a limiting factor for growth in Arizona. We live in a desert environment. There's not an unlimited supply. So businesses need to care about water issues. Not only from their own business perspective, but for economic development for the whole state.

>> Merry Lucero:
Valley Forward believes businesses can even save money by saving water.

>> Diane Brossart:
The first thing that most businesses need to do is conduct an audit of their water usage and then figure out where they can make savings, and we do have resources on our committee that can help do those kinds of things. That's what we want to make available to people.

>> Merry Lucero:
Using desert landscaping, cooling towers and water efficient plumbing are a few things businesses can do. Balancing economic development and water conservation is the objective.

>> Diane Brossart:
Our goal is really to focus awareness on that and make people care, because it's the future of Arizona. It's for our children. And it's an issue that we should all be concerned about and be stewards of the environment.

>> Michael Grant:
Here with an update on the Status of the Valley's water resources is SRP hydrologist Charlie Ester. Also here is Jay Hicks, a landscape architect and executive board member for Valley Forward. Charlie, let's focus on the supply side first and then, Jay, we'll move to some demand side issues. 95% full. When was the last time the SRP system was 95% full?

>> Charlie Ester:
Boy, Michael, you have to go way back for that. It would have been probably in the late '80s, as we missed the opportunity in the '90s when we were working on Roosevelt dam. We had a huge wet winter in '93 but we had to let all that water go. So it was quite a while ago.

>> Michael Grant:
That's a good point to make because at 95% now, the system has more capacity because of the enlargement of Roosevelt Lake, so that's -- that 95% is 95% of a larger universe.

>> Charlie Ester:
That's exactly true. Right now Roosevelt Lake is holding about 200,000 acre-feet more than it ever has before in its history.

>> Michael Grant:
Now, you were confidently telling me it was going to hit 100%.

>> Charlie Ester:
I did say that twice, and it got really close, and... We'll get there in the future.

>> Michael Grant:
When do you know when the drought is over?

>> Charlie Ester:
In the future we'll know whether the drought is over. I know that sounds somewhat funny, but right now I don't think that it would be wise to say the drought is over. There's still a lot of lingering effects of the drought in the forests, the conditions on the reservoirs on the major Colorado, Lakes Powell and Mead, those are still around 50% full. So we really need a couple more years of abundant rain and snow to be able to say the drought is over. But then, on the other hand, you know, we've -- in the southwest, does it really matter if we're in a drought or not? We know there's another one coming. The history of this area is of drought cycles, and there will be another drought.

>> Michael Grant:
Well, Jay, which leads logically, then to why don't we handle the usage factor a little better? How do businesses do -- we folk us a lot on the residential side of this equation, but how do businesses do in terms of efficiently using water?

>> Jay Hicks:
You know, we've actually had a pretty good luck over the last 10 years or so of really having buildings and stuff really do focus on conservation, low-flow toilets have been put in place, and now we're seeing a trend of even going to cooling towers. They're actually recycling water through water harvesting that are later pumped into for the irrigation -- we're seeing a lot more efficiency out of the buildings themselves and businesses and then also even in new communities we're seeing more efficient irrigation systems, use of effluent. Lot of different systems like that.

>> Michael Grant:
Do we, the Valley, at least this is my impression, doesn't have what I would consider to be a lot of water intensive industrial uses. Is that true?

>> Jay Hicks: That's true to some extent because we're really not a manufacturing city. If you look all the way through the history, really it's agriculture, and that's been the primary water use, so from an industry standpoint, we get into few water companies and different industries like that, but when you get down to really manufacturing, we don't have that many manufacturing jobs probably outside of basically the silicon chips and the -- basically the computer industry.

>> Michael Grant:
Given the supply situation, I assume that we're using less groundwater?

>> Charlie Ester:
Yes. Right now we are on what we call a minimum pumping year and using the least amount of groundwater we can get by with.

>> Michael Grant:
And maximizing -- at least -- I guess building up our usage of C.A.P. water, is that also true, Charlie?

>> Charlie Ester:
Right now, actually usage of C.A.P. water will be reduced this year and the reason for that is there was such an abundance of Salt and Verde water this spring, a lot of C.A.P. water went unused. It was available, but not -- there was so much of our own water that others were able to utilize. It was better to leave that water in Lake Mead and go ahead and use our water, which was being spilled at Granite Reef. Now, throughout the rest of the year, certainly a lot of the groundwater replenishment areas will be trying to maximize the use of C.A.P. water to recharge that, but it's going to be a challenge for the Central Arizona Project to pull all of Arizona's entitlement off the river this year.

>> Michael Grant:
But over time, I think, that progress is being made in terms of more full utilization?

>> Charlie Ester:
Absolutely. In a normal year now, Arizona uses it full entitlement.

>> Michael Grant:
Jay, have we done the things that we should have done through -- you mentioned some building codes and low-flow toilets and those kinds of things. Have we done, though, what we should do in terms of code approaches to this?

>> Jay Hicks:
I think the code issue, I think, has been approached pretty successfully. I think what you're seeing now is basically the green building approaches. We're seeing cities like Scottsdale, Phoenix, and a lot of the other cities start to adopt green building programs which really what it does is sets a -- basically a high bar for water use or lack of, let's put it that way.

>> Michael Grant:
Explain to me what a green building --

>> Jay Hicks:
A green building -

>> Michael Grant:
Illustrations.

>> Jay Hicks:
Illustrations, really they look at the lifecycle of the building more so than the initial costs. So what it actually costs to run the building and then also it's water efficiency, whether they're recycling water back into the irrigation system or, really, pretty much conservation from energy all the way through water. So you're seeing that trend that goes from, you know, very low certification to what they call platinum certification, which is really highly efficient.

>> Michael Grant:
I recall having read recently a story in the newspaper about, I believe it was the City of Phoenix, being resistant to a gray water system. First, explain what a gray water system is and explain why maybe the city would be resistant to that kind of thing.

>> Jay Hicks:
There's a couple of different things. Gray water itself literally is that water that comes directly from the house that comes from mostly showers and sinks. It's not what they call black water, which really is toilet water. So what they're doing is capturing the gray water into tanks and being able to put it either directly on the landscape, either, you know, on the surface, or even subsurface. So it's a way of capturing a portion of the water that you use in our house without returning it back into basically the sewer system.

>> Michael Grant:
I think some gray water systems will also capture rain water and that kind of thing and move it into the system as well.

>> Jay Hicks:
Very much so.

>> Michael Grant:
Then you throw the stuff back on your landscape.

>> Charlie Ester:
Reduces primary water use then, correct?

>> Jay Hicks:
It can reduce primary water use. What it is is the cities, especially like the City of Phoenix, there's a certain amount of flow they want back as far as either for replenishment, we talked a little bit about the replenishment districts getting water they can put it back in the settlement ponds to get water credits, meaning if they put so much water back in, they can actually draw a certain amount back out of the well systems. So that's one of the main functions. The other is there's a lot of water commitments to either golf courses or other large turf areas that they need the flow back. So depending on each city and how the water systems are set up, there is a different way of approaching effluent.

>> Michael Grant:
Charlie, I take it that the cities at least, here in the Valley, no further water restrictions currently in place given our situation?

>> Charlie Ester:
That's correct. I believe all the cities have rescinded any restrictions they had in place although we are -- everyone is still recommending everyone to continue to use water wisely.

>> Michael Grant:
That's excellent advice, I think. I'll keep pulling for Lake Roosevelt to fill completely up. Maybe we'll get a big monsoon. Charlie Ester from Salt River Project, thanks very much for being here. Jay Hicks, Valley Forward, our thanks to you as well.

>> Jay Hicks:
Appreciate it.

>> Michael Grant:
Imagine not being able to eat many foods most people enjoy things like breads, pastas, cookies, even soy sauce. That's what people with Celiac Disease face. The illness used to be considered a rare disease, but not anymore. Unfortunately as Pam White reports, many of the people are still undiagnosed.

>> Pam White:
Colleen Beaman has a lot in common with famous family member.

>> Colleen Beaman:
My uncle was Gene Kelly of "Singing in the Rain," my brother father was Fred Kelly from Broadway, which is where I grew up. So I have been performing since I have a year old and it comes naturally but I enjoy the teaching aspect best.

>> Pam White:
She inherited a love for show business, but she inherited something else. Fortunately no one else in the immediate family shares. It's called celiac disease.

>> Colleen Beaman:
Wheat to a Celiac is a carcinogen. At some point if you continue to consume it, your system will break down. It wipes out your intestinal track.

>> Pam White: Celiac disease is a chronic autoimmune illness that damages the small intestine. The only treatment, a gluten-free diet.

>> Melissa Diane Smith:
Gluten is in wheat, rye, barley, oats, and all additives made from those foods. It's actually hidden in a lot of very common food products. It could be in everything from soy sauce to some teas.

>> Pam White:
Melissa Diane Smith is a nutritional counselor, health educator and author of "Going Against the Grain."

>> Melissa Diane Smith:
Your body reacts so strongly to gluten, a protein in wheat and some other common grains, that it actually starts to destroy the normal brush-like lining of the small intestine.

>> Pam White:
Smith says celiac disease can be difficult to detect because it can present a wide range of symptoms from migraines to gastrointestinal disorders. But today there are much easier ways to test for it.

>> Melissa Diane Smith:
There are blood tests that have been -- recently made available that test your body's immune response or the antibodies it produces to gluten.

>> Pam White:
Celiac disease is not an allergic reaction like lactose intolerance. It's a digestive illness that influences food absorption and if left untreated can manifest into serious problems.

>> Melissa Diane Smith:
One of them is that the longer a person with celiac disease keeps eating gluten and isn't diagnosed, the more that they can develop other autoimmune diseases. Those could be autoimmune thyroid disease, autoimmune liver disease, rheumatoid arthritis, a whole host of autoimmune diseases. So you could actually get multiple autoimmune diseases.

>> Pam White:
Beaman didn't have any obvious symptoms for years then something triggered it and it almost killed her.

>> Colleen Beaman:
I could sit down and eat three spaghetti dinners, a whole loaf of garlic bread and ask for the dessert menu, but I was eating the wrong food. Nothing was staying with me. It hits like parvo hits a dog. It wiped out my entire intestinal track. I was basically dying of malnutrition. That's when they decided something had to be done, and I could try this bizarre diet.

>> Pam White:
For 23 years, Colleen has been on a gluten-free diet, a diet that's become easier to follow because of new products and improved labeling. But she still has to watch out.

>> Colleen Beaman:
My children grew up knowing that if they put the knife in the mayonnaise jar, wiped it on the bread, the knife does not go back in the mayonnaise jar or would it contaminate the jar of mayonnaise. You can't come in contact with it.

>> Pam White:
In a recent study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and other publications, the perception that celiac disease is rare is changing. In fact, it's estimated 1 in every 250 people in the U.S. has it.

>> Colleen Beaman:
Originally when they went through training, we're taught that it was very rare, occurring in like 1 in every 7,000 people or something like that. It turns out that these newly developed blood tests have been able to show that it's much more common than anybody ever realized.

>> Pam White:
The cause is unknown, but there is a treatment, a gluten-free diet. So Smith and Beaman are trying to raise awareness to encourage early detection and prevention.

>> Colleen Beaman:
Initially we want to put together a booklet to give to doctors so that they can understand how simple some of the diagnoses could be and the testing is no longer the big expense.

>> Melissa Diane Smith:
I just think it's very important when people are having unexplained illness to think about this, to get the idea that grains might not always be good for every person.

>> Michael Grant:
To see transcripts of "Horizon," find out about upcoming topics, please visit the web site. You'll find it at www.azpbs.org.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Arizona State's Mars Research Program recently was showcased at a prestigious science and technology expedition in Beijing. The ASU Mars exhibit was the first for a non-Chinese participant. We'll tell you how the Chinese received the ASU exhibit and what benefits the university may derive from making contacts at the exhibition. That's Thursday at 7:00 on "Horizon."

>> Michael Grant:
Please join us Friday for the week's news review. Thanks very much for being here this evening. I'm Michael Grant. Have a great one. Goodnight.

Back to the top