Other transcripts

Transcripts

September 15, 2004

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
· Juvenile Prison Settlement;
· Proposition 400
In-Studio Guests:
Michael Branhan, Director, Arizona Department of Juvenile Corrections;
Emmet Ronan, Presding Judge, Maricopa County Juvenile Court;
Neal Giuliano, former Tempe Mayor, supporter of Proposition 400;
John Semmens, transportation researcher, opponent of Proposition 400

>> Michael Grant:
Tonight on "Horizon," proposition 400 would extend the existing half-cent sales tax dedicated to regional transportation. A supporter and opponent join us. Plus, the Arizona department of juvenile corrections and the federal government sign an agreement to fix deficiencies at this and other state juvenile correction facilities. That's next on "Horizon."

>> Michael Grant:
Good evening, I'm Michael Grant. After the suicide death of a youth being held at Adobe Mountain Juvenile corrections facility in 2002, the U.S. Department of Justice began an investigation of juvenile corrections facilities in our state. Before that investigation was completed, two more young people committed suicide at Adobe Mountain. D.O.J. looked into deficiencies in treatment of youth in its care. The report from that investigation was released earlier this year. Over the past six months state juvenile corrections has been negotiating with the federal government and has now reached an agreement to remedy problems found at three of four state juvenile corrections facilities. Today Governor Janet Napolitano and the U.S. Department of Justice civil rights division, deputy Assistant Attorney General, signed that agreement.

>> Brad Scholzman:
The agreement and the findings letter we discussed encompass add multitude of different areas. But rather than providing a sterile summary, let me go over a few of the more frightening conditions we found at the state's facilities. We found that the state lacked appropriate suicide prevention training and equipment. In a one-year period, three juveniles committed suicide at the Adobe Mountain facility, and that's a figure well in excess of national averages. In one suicide, the staff lacked the necessary tools to cut the noose down from the dead boy's neck. Even worse, the oxygen tank called out to resuscitate the juvenile was empty. We found substantial sexual abuse of youth by staff, although I won't go into those details here, the findings that we found are detailed in great specificity in our letter. To call it very disturbing is an understatement. We also found substantial sexual abuse of youth by other juveniles in the facility and we found that the management had not dealt with those issues appropriately. Physical abuse of a non-sexual variety by both juveniles and staff was also rampant. We saw such things as a staff member requiring a juvenile to crawl through a drainage ditch as well as unprovoked assaults on juveniles by other juveniles and staff. Such practices not only harm youth but they render rehabilitation difficult if not impossible. The facilities were grossly understaffed. We saw housing units where only one staff member was assigned to maintain order of dozen of youths. Perhaps not surprisingly an inmate was assaulted while one officer was in the restroom. We found serious deficiencies in the provision of medical care, special education services, mental health counseling and the grievance system. This is no way to set juvenile offenders on the path to a law abiding and productive life.

>> Governor Janet Napolitano:
Under the agreement the Department of Justice will continue to monitor what we are doing at the department of juvenile corrections for up to three years, although there's provision in the agreement that that period can be shorter. This is not a consent decree in the Department of Justice will explain that when they address their remarks to you. This agreement is a response to specific investigations. Work to improve the department of juvenile corrections has been a priority of mine, it's a priority of the State of Arizona and it will continue to be. There are a lot of things identified or things that we are doing pursuant to the agreement and things, quite frankly, that had begun before the agreement was reached and in fact before we received the report. For example, the department of juvenile corrections has already developed a suicide prevention training program for all staff and adopted new suicide prevention policies and procedures. We've created an inspections and investigations unit as well as enacted new provisions and guidelines to increase the level of training and number of staff assisting youth. We requested additional appropriation from the legislature this past spring, which the legislature supplied, for which I am grateful, enabling us to put more than $1 million into building improvements for things like making individual cells suicide proof and also to enable us to hire 73 more employees in the department because of the staffing concerns that were raised. The agreement we signed today will continue these courses of action and add to them in the areas of suicide prevention, juvenile justice, special education, medical care and mental healthcare.

>> Michael Grant:
Here to talk about the agreement is the Arizona department of juvenile corrections director Michael Branham and Judge Emmet Ronan. He is Maricopa County juvenile court presiding judge. Thanks for joining us. Michael, we talked in January when the D.O.J. letter came out. Obviously the problems were quite deep and quite severe. Do we know how they got this severe?

>> Michael Branham:
I think there were a number of factors. Certainly a downturn in the economy which resulted in budget cuts were part of that. Staffing. Training and lack thereof were parts of that. There were many things we could point fingers to. Instead, what we've taken is the direction that we want to take it to the next level, move it forward, and instead make sure this never happens again.

>> Michael Grant:
You can often learn, though, from your past mistakes, and this seemed to be a mix of certainly inadequate staffing but also in many instances active wrong doing by staff members, as well as just negligent supervision concerning the duties they were entrusted with. Is that an overall summary of what seemed to be going wrong?

>> Michael Branham:
It really is but I would point out that's a small number of people. There are very many dedicated member of the department of juvenile corrections that have been long standing and well trained and very well equipped and managed folks. Like a lot of other organizations, this one was allowed to deteriorate but a small number of people actually participated in the bad deeds, not the larger number.

>> Michael Grant:
Judge, you recently became presiding judge of the juvenile court but you've been on the juvenile court bench for three or four years or so. Were there reports of these kinds of problems at the facilities from your perspective, from the judge's perspective?

>> Judge Emmet Ronan:
Well, we heard stories. There were things in the media that talked about problems. But one of the difficulties we had was the previous administration, director, assured us that everything was fine. I mean, we were led to believe that there weren't problems and that kids were receiving appropriate treatment and rehabilitation and education, and that's one of the thing that concerned us deeply, when the report came out, was it was not what we were led to believe was the case.

>> Michael Grant:
In fact, one of the juveniles that you sentenced unfortunately was one of the juveniles who committed suicide.

>> Judge Emmett Ronan:
Yes, he was.

>> Michael Grant:
You were appointed to a task force several months ago. What is the task force's role in this whole agreement that's been worked out.

>> Judge Emmett Ronan:
The governor created the task force on juvenile corrections reform at about the same time that she sent the letter responding to the allegations in the CRPA investigation. It's a broad cross section of people from the community, the governor has basically given two charges. One is oversight of the department of corrections as they implement the CRPA agreement. And secondly, advise the department of corrections on broader juvenile justice issues, and I think there's a third charge that all of the commission members feel, and that is to set up a process and make changes that are permanent and long lasting so we don't find ourselves in this situation ever again. This is the second time we've been here in the last 20 years where we've had an investigation of our juvenile corrections facilities.

>> Michael Grant:
And last time we thought we had taken care of the problems. Let me go to -- I want to get to as many of the specific areas as I can in the time available. One of the areas in the agreement is suicide prevention. Give us more specifics as to what will be done there or is being done.

>> Michael Branham:
Up to this point we've done over a million point seven in renovations to the actual cottages where the kids live. That's one piece. Now you add it to the components for extra training. We're also doing better jobs -- finding better ways to find the kids at risk of suicidal behaviors. You pull that together and you have more projects than suicide prevention.

>> Michael Grant:
Juvenile justice is issue number two. Is this a look at the input side of this, examining the case before the person moves to the institution?

>> Judge Emmett Ronan:
It involves that. I think it also involves just looking at the broader issues of what do we do with kid when they come out of the department of corrections? Maybe changing how we do business there. Right now it's kind of fragmented. The probation department and the court deal with the juvenile before commitment. Then the department of corrections deals with them while they're in the institution. And then the department of corrections also deals with them after they come into the community. My hope would be that we look at the whole system and see if we can't do something so that it's much more of a seamless process where everybody is working together throughout this process to help the child and the family.

>> Michael Branham:
I would echo with that. I think one of the most important pieces of juvenile justice as it relates to the kids is the family and the way we reintegrate the kid back into the community once they have been adjudicated and they've moved through our process into what we call our parole setting. The judge is right, what we want to do is make sure the entire family, the rest of the justice system, everybody is supporting that kid as he reintegrates.

>> Michael Grant:
Education, judge, is one of the points -- many of the juveniles you're dealing with have special education needs, correct?

>> Judge Emmett Ronan:
At least 50% of them. That was one of the things that was sorely lacking that the CRPA investigation uncovered. Their education needs weren't being met. And one of the -- we send these children to the department of corrections facilities for treatment, rehabilitation and education, and that was something that needed to be addressed.

>> Michael Grant:
How will special education and education generally be addressed? What's the plan there?

>> Michael Branham:
We've now pulled all of the issues that deal with the kids as they come in the front end of the system into an individual treatment plan that follows them all the way through to their 18th birthday. With that we have the ability to start them in the process behind the fence and as they move back to the community to reintegrate not only into special education needs but also vocational needs and other special education projects.

>> Michael Grant:
Michael Branham thank you for joining us, Judge Emmet Ronan, good to see you.

>>> Michael Grant:
Proposition 400 asks Maricopa County voters to continue a half cent sales tax dedicated to transportation. That tax initially approved by voters in 1985 and is due to expire in 2005. The funds would go into a regional transportation plan for the Maricopa County area. In a moment we'll hear some arguments from both sides for and against the measure. First here's a look at what's proposed in the regional transportation plan.

>> Reporter Merry Lucero:
A nearly $16 billion regional transportation plan has been in the works for years. Public input has been a large part of crafting the plan. Its future depends on passage of a half-cent sales tax extension which is scheduled to expire in 2005. The plan includes a wide range of transportation developments, including more than half the funding goes to freeways, a projected 344 miles of new or improved highways. 275 miles of new or improved arterial streets are planned. Improvement of 34 intersections is proposed. 40 new regional bus routes are planned as well as 2100 new buses and 1200 new bus pullouts. Along with 1,000 anticipated new Dial-A-Ride vehicles and 38 expected park N ride lots. And the plan would add 27 projected new miles to the already approved light rail system. The most contentious part of the plan here in a computer animation is the light rail element.

>> Michael Grant:
Joining me now with more on proposition 400, Neal Giuliano, former Tempe Mayor. He is a supporter of prop 400. In opposition to the measure John Semmens, a transportation researcher for more than 15 years, much more than 15 years but, John, we won't talk about that.

>> John Semmens:
That's okay.

>> Michael Grant:
Neal, tell me why people ought to vote yes on proposition 400.

>> Neil Giuliano:
Three basic reasons, Mike. Of course, this is the comprehensive plan that's been developed over the last couple of years with input from over 100 different public meetings, all the communities in the region, the Arizona Department of Transportation, the Maricopa association of governments, Maricopa County. It's a plan that's balanced providing 66% of the funding for highways and streets, 17% for bus and infrastructure and 15% for an expansion of light rail. This plan, proposition 400, has nothing at all to do with the existing light rail that's happening in the Mesa, Tempe, Phoenix corridor. Secondly, it does not create a new tax at all. It's the extension of what's already existed and we have to thank the folks who were around in 1985 'who put forth the original half cent sales tax to put our freeway system in place we have today. Imagine what it would be like if that vote had gone down. We're now looking to the next 20 years, and what kind of infrastructure do we need to put in place for that. Thirdly, this is a plan that has accountability for the taxpayers. There are auditing measures that are in the plan. Every few years the Lifecycle program of the Maricopa association of governments transportation plan with an outside auditor separate and apart from government officials will audit the plan to see that it's performing and if certain aspects of the plan are not performing, those funds will have to be redirected to another mode.

>> Michael Grant:
John, obviously you're in opposition. Why should people vote no if?

>> John Semmens:
Well, too much of the money of this plan is wasted on ineffective public transportation. The 2.3 billion that's being allocated to light rail could be used to build 100 lane miles of additional freeway. This becomes important when you realize that the vote passed in 1985 did not deliver all the freeway miles that were promised. The light rail component is also a very ineffective in its output. This report done by the Valley Metro for their environmental impact statement shows that light rail will actually increase traffic congestion. Traffic speeds along the corridor served will be 17.9 9 miles per hour without light rail and 17.7 miles an hour with light rail. It doesn't solve the transportation problem. It's also way too expensive. This report here also done by Valley Metro shows that the cost for each additional light rail passenger is more than $12. This waste of money is an egregious pillaging of resources that are going to be desperately needed for real regional transportation solutions.

>> Michael Grant:
But, John, here's a problem... $2.3 billion or so of the 15, 16 billion dollar plan goes to light rail, but as the Mayor pointed out about 10 billion or so does go to roads and freeways. Wouldn't it be a classic case of tossing the baby out with the bath water?

>> John Semmens:
Not at all. I think the tax doesn't expire until December 31st of 2005. There is ample time to come back with a better plan. In fact, better plans were suggested, options which would give voters the opportunity to select from a menu of solutions, but that opportunity was rejected.

>> Neil Giuliano:
In effect, we discussed those options as a community through our process, that it had extensive public input, and we came to the conclusion that our job was to put forth a plan that would meet the needs from throughout this entire region over the next 20 years and really what our opponents are saying is that, rather than working together and coming one a comprehensive plan for the entire region, what we should do is vote no on this and leave it for somebody to come up with another plan.

>> Michael Grant:
But here's the suspicion, though. The suspicion is that $2.3 billion for the light rail got tied in with the bigger package so people like me would have to ask the question, gosh, I like some components of this but I have to buy $2.3 billion in light rail to get the components I like.

>> Neil Giuliano:
Actually your best way to have oversight of future light rail, and remind everyone we're not talking about the existing light rail that's under way in Tempe, Phoenix, Mesa, this is for extensions of the light rail into the future, after the 2010 part of this plan, the best way to make sure that there's accountability for those extensions of light rail is to vote yes on this plan. Because that puts in -- it's in the law, it's in statute, we are required to have independent auditors look at the performance of the initial 20 mile segment of light rail, and if in 2010 that initial segment is not meeting the performance measures, the additional light rail, which the plan does include, will have to be looked at and possibly some of those funds could be redirected somewhere else. So if you don't like light rail, vote yes on the plan so there's accountability for the extension. The existing light rail is going to happen.

>> Michael Grant:
So, John, it sounds to me I'm not rolling the dice if it's not working, we're not going to get it.

>> John Semmens:
I think it's an amazing conception they have here that there's accountability. All they've done is list, you know, we're going to look at the number of passengers, we're going to look at the dollars expended, but they don't give any indication of what a passing grade is. Right now before we even start we know that the cost is going to be more than $12 per additional passenger.

>> Neil Giuliano:
We would argue --

>> John Semmens:
Right now, in this plan, for every $1 it spends to benefit a person who drives their car, it spends $40 to benefit a person who rides transit. Now, those are the statistics going on. Now, if they're willing to start this whole light rail given that, what measure are they going to use in 5 years?

>> Neil Giuliano:
It's not about statistics. And John has a lot of statistics. He spends his career working on a lot of transportation statistics. We're talking about the future. We're talking about planning for our transportation future and meeting the needs of all the aspects and you will the different parts of this Valley from Gilbert to north Glendale and Peoria and comprehensively came one a plan. This is not a light rail plan. It's not a transit plan. It's a comprehensive transportation plan that has all of these modes connected. We will end up with 38 new park N ride lots. We'll end up with bus rapid transit. A thousand new Dial-A-Rides. Our population over the next 20 years, we're going to be going north of 6 million people in 20 years in this region and within that number, we're having a three times increase of the senior population that we have today. So we need to be thinking about our mobility for the future.

>> Michael Grant:
But, Neal, there are a number of people in good faith who say, yeah, we need to broaden our transportation plan, we're just not sure that the $2.3 billion spent on this particular aspect is the right way. I'd like 2,000 more Dial-A-Rides --

>> Neil Giuliano:
That's why we have the accountability measures that were in the statute, it will be approved with the passage of proposition 400, and the oversight is there for that accountability. The opponents like to say, there isn't accountability. It is. It's in statute. We have to follow the law. So we feel very comfortable than that the accountability measures are there and we feel very comfortable we have engaged with the public for the last two-and-a-half years to put forth a plan that meets the needs for our future.

>> Michael Grant :
John, what about the argument we do need to broaden the Valley's transportation plan. Obviously all of us travel to other cities. There are broader transportation options available. All of us are sharply aware that the streets are getting more crowded, the freeways are getting more crowded. Don't we have to get a few more modes of transportation on the road?

>> John Semmens:
Yes, but I think you need to look at what you spend and what you get. This plan calls for spending 32% on transit that will serve 1% of the travel. It's grossly disproportional to the actual way that people travel. It's disproportional to what people need. We're going to be looking back at ourselves and seeing how foolish we were because in 1985 voters were promised 230 miles of new freeway if they voted for that tax. As the tax expires we're getting 150 miles. We know it's very, very likely that they're going to fall short again. Aren't we going to feel foolish we wasted so much money on something aimed at 1% of the travel when we could have use that money to the other 99% of the travel.

>> Neil Giuliano:
In fact that's not true, and historically, John, you know the budget predictions developed in the bottom of the capital basement in 1985 were flawed from the very beginning. We're not using those kinds of projections now. We're using projections we think are realistic for the growth of this Valley to support this plan. The other thing we've done, we're actually thinking ahead and planning for the way the cities and communities will be able to work together using our federal fund, using our local funds and using the sales tax from throughout the county. This is a revenue sharing program. If we go the go the way Mr. Semmens would suggest, vote no, number one, we have to use the Maricopa association of governments process. That's the federally approved metropolitan planning organization. That simply is going to be very difficult to do. Then, of course, you've got to be able to get everybody together to say what they want to do. Going it alone and leaving every city to do their own, the cities in the growth areas of this Valley where new freeways are needed, where arterial street construction is needed, they simply don't have their own sales tax base to be able to do the kind of transportation infrastructure they need. So this is a revenue sharing. We're all in this together and we have to support proposition 400 so that we can improve our transportation together.

>> Michael Grant:
John, let me shift to a slightly different issue. Let's lay the 2.3 billion for light rail to one side for the time being. The balance of the package, in your opinion, is there an appropriate mix of other transportation modalities, freeways, street improvements, bus turnouts, the shopping list of items that you have?

>> John Semmens:
Yes, and I think appear sensible plan looks at the market conditions, how are people travelling, how are they likely to travel? At best, at best, 20 years from now the number of people that are going to be using public transportation is going to be between maybe 1 and 1.5%. So a regional plan that is aimed at a balanced addressing of the needs would put about 98% of the money into roads and 2% of the money into transit.

>> Neil Giuliano:
And his basis for giving that statistic, my same basis would be to say that it could be 3, 5 or 7%. The point is we have to plan for the future and the central part of this region where light rail is a reality and is going to happen if it performs and if it's successful, then there will be extensions with this. If it's not, there won't be.

>> Michael Grant:
One of the other aspects of the plan was to try to extend benefits to all areas of the Valley, right?

>> Neil Giuliano:
Of course, because everyone is putting into the pot. We want to make sure we're meeting the transportation needs from north Peoria to south Gilbert.

>> Michael Grant:
All right. Gentlemen, we are out of time. I suspect that's not the last word on proposition 400, but it was one of the words on proposition 400. Neal Giuliano, thank you very much for joining us.

>> Neal Giuliano:
Thank you, Michael.

>> Michael Grant:
John Semmens, it's good to see you again. To see transcripts of "Horizon" and find out more about upcoming topics, please visit the website. That address has been changed. It is now www.azpbs.org. Click on "Horizon" and you can follow the links.

>> Mike Sauceda:
There's been lots of controversy surrounding touch screen voting machines across the country. There have been concerns about possible tampering with computer voting systems and about the lack of a paper ballot. However, all those concerns and more are addressed with Arizona's touch screen voting machines. Learn more about the voting machines Thursday at 7:00 on "Horizon".

>> Michael Grant:
And tomorrow following "Horizon" stay tuned for "Horizonte." We're still having a debate. We'll have a special one year anniversary look at the program which covers Arizona issues through a Hispanic lens, and then Friday the journalists are going to be right here at this not so roundtable of "Horizon." Thank you very much for joining us this evening. I'm Michael Grant. Hope you have a great one. Good night.

 

Back to the top