Other transcripts

Transcripts

October 12, 2004

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
· Bob Schieffer;
· Debate Issues;
· Volunteers
In-Studio Guests:
· Bob Scheiffer, veteran Washington correspondent and host of CBS' "Face the Nation;"
· Matt Salmon, former Arizona Congressman;
· Fred Duval, former assistant to President Clinton for intergovernmental affairs

>> Michael Grant:
Tonight on "Horizon," final preparations are under way for the last of the presidential debates. In less than 24 hours, President Bush and Senator Kerry will take the stage at Gammage Auditorium at ASU. We'll preview the debate and the topic... domestic policy. Plus, he's the one who gets to ask the candidates questions. We'll hear what Bob Schieffer of CBS News plans to do as moderator of the debate. And we'll take a look at the hundreds of volunteers helping pull off the event. Good evening. I'm Michael Grant. Welcome to "Horizon."

>> Michael Grant:
Tomorrow's debate has made Arizona the focus of national media political coverage. Governor Napolitano appeared on CNN's "Inside Politics" at Arizona State University this afternoon. CNN is broadcasting several shows live from the campus, as are other networks. And perhaps remembering the young age of the crowd behind him, at the conclusion of CNN's "Cross Fire" program, co-host Paul Begala played rock star by crowd surfing or being passed atop audience members.

>> Michael Grant:
Wednesday night's debate is the third and final time the two candidates will square off. The importance of the debate cannot be understated. After his performance in the first debate, Senator Kerry caught up with President Bush in many polls. Political pundits say the second debate last Friday produced no clear winner. The last debate was a town hall where undecided voters asked the questions. This time around, the debate is moderated by Bob Schieffer, a veteran Washington correspondent and host of CBS' "Face the Nation." Schieffer sat down and discuss discussed his role with Bob Silcock of the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication.

>> Bob Schieffer:
I must say for all the years that I've been in television and news, and this is getting to be past 40 years now, it's one of the most exciting thing I've ever been asked to do. I'm just -- it's like I'm a young kid that's been sent out on his first story. These debates are the last thing in politics where there's any chance of spontaneity. They can still be fun. And to be a part of it is really just a thrill for me.

>> Reporter Bill Silcock:
What do you consider your role to be?

>> Bob Schieffer:
My role, I think, is to make sure that the American people get a good understanding of who these two men are. We know both of these men are experienced. We know both of them are qualified to be president. We also know that both of them are patriots. My job is to help the American people understand where they stand on the various issues that have to be dealt with in the presidency. So if I can do that, if I can bring it home to the person watching television who these people are, then I think I will have done my job. These debates are not about the moderators. These debates are about the people who are running for president, and I'm going to keep that in mind as I moderate this debate.

>> Reporter Bill Silcock:
What kind of interplay is there with you and the other moderators? Do you compare notes?

>> Bob Schieffer:
Well, a funny thing happened on the way to this debate. Foreign policy was supposed to be the third and last debate and that's what I was asked to moderate. And then the two campaigns decided that they wanted to do foreign policy first. So I had done about a full week of going around visiting with experts at think tanks, calling reporters, calling people on all sides of these issues, and I hit about 75 great foreign policy questions. I got up and read the paper the next morning and discovered they'd flipped the debates, they're going to do foreign policy first and domestic policy last, so then I had to become a domestic policy expert. So I spent about a week, started at ground zero getting myself briefed up on domestic policy. But it was like a kid who studies up really hard for the biology quiz and gets to class and discovers the test is going to be on the algebra. Really I had a little sinking feeling there.

But the fact is I learned a lot over this past -- these past three weeks. What I've been trying to do is I don't ask people to give me questions. What I ask is just to brief me on what the latest news about various things are, on the economy and jobs, where are we on jobs now? Explain to me why it is that outsourcing has become a problem. I think if I can get those things in my mind, then I'll have a better idea of what questions to ask. When I prepare for Face the Nation, I don't really write out questions. What I do is write out areas that I want to make sure I cover, and most of the good questions I ask, if I do say so, come out of what somebody has just said on the broadcast. So the key to doing a good interview is always to listen carefully to what the person you're interviewing says. So I'll be listening very carefully. Do I know exactly what questions I'm going to ask? I have a few in mind but mostly I will be listening to what they say and then try to ask the questions that I think the people sitting out there watching television, the questions that will come to them.

>> Reporter Dr. Silcock:
Do you worry about your questions becoming too complicated, either for the candidates then to kind of dance around them or for the audience not to understand them?

>> Bob Shieffer:
I'm going to have to be very specific because the rules of this debate make it very difficult to ask follow-up questions. So the questions might be a little more complex than they normally would. But I'll tell you, I've just written a book about the history of "face the nation," and one of the things I learned from that is how pompous the interviewers can sometimes be, probably on the whole more pompous than the people they were interviewing. So I always try to keep that in mind. When I talk to kids at journalism schools I always tell them, look, it's the short questions that get the best answers, not the long questions. So I'll try to be careful not to get too convoluted in the questions.

>> Reporter Bill Silcock:
Talk a little about what has become the debate over the debates.

>> Bob Shieffer:
The debate over the debates has become almost as much a part of the process now as the debates themselves. And each side has to go through this little dance. Both sides are trying to make sure that their man is not caught by surprise. You know, and so this time they have structured it in such a way that I ask -- say I ask President Bush a question, he has two minutes to answer, then Senator Kerry has a minute and a half to respond and then I have the discretion to go back to President Bush for 30 seconds and then to Senator Kerry for 30 seconds. But I can't ask any follow-ups in there. It's up to them to ask those follow-up questions. So I may have to try to be a little more complex and kind of front load my questions at the start in an effort to get them past the little recorded announcements that all candidates have about where they stand on an issue.

Maybe I can -- maybe the first question I ask would be the follow-up question normally and maybe that's kind of the strategy that I'll follow. But again, the important thing, it's up to these two gentlemen to -- if they want to ask a tough follow-up question of the other, they're not allowed to ask each other direct questions but they can pose rhetorical questions, they can throw it out there, they can say, "president Bush hasn't answered that question," or "senator Kerry knows better than that, he knows he's proposed something that's going to cost billions of dollars and he hasn't given us an answer on how he is going to pay for it." They can do it. It's up to them. There are different kinds of philosophies about, for example, how you cover political campaigns. My philosophy always is I didn't come here to tell them what to do. I came to watch. I came to report on what they do. My philosophy is, it's up to the candidates to run the campaign and it's up to the guy on the other side to respond. So we'll see what happens.

I still think that it's going to be the most fun time on the campaign. It's the most interesting stop on the campaign trail now as far as I'm concerned. And it is the last place where there is a chance for spontaneity. Let me just say something else... I think as important as the substance of what these people say is the idea that there's kind of a heavyweight championship fight atmosphere, World Series Super Bowl kind of atmosphere here, and I think that's good, because that's what gets people interested in politics. What turns people off are these sour, nasty campaign commercials that the campaign is generally about these days. The more we can put some fun and spontaneity and, sure, it's a big game kind of atmosphere, the more of that the merrier, I say, because that's what gets people in front of that television set and it's got to be a learning experience for all of us when we sit down and watch these debates.

>> Michael Grant:
What should we expect from tomorrow's debate? And what topics will candidates likely discuss? I'll talk to former Arizona congressman Matt Salmon and former Clinton White House assistant Fred Duval in just a moment but first Paul Atkinson looks at what undecided voters hope to get out of the debate.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
A clash of titans is nothing new to Tempe. After all, it hosted the Super Bowl in 1996. And the college championship football game in 2003. But are people really excited about a presidential debate in Tempe?

>> Stacy Stuart:
I think it's just a huge thing that everybody's like getting involved with.

>> I think it's a really big deal. I think it's an honor that we can have it here.

>> Michelle Morgan:
I'm looking forward to it. I want to hear somebody ignite some passion in me so I can goat either way.

>> George W. Bush:
In Iraq, no doubt about it it's tough.

>> George Watson, Ph.D:
These debates seem to be more influential than debates in the previous, at least the first debate, we saw a distinct impact on public opinion. More people are registered to vote. I think the registration rolls are up across many, many states. So there seems to be an awful lot of interest in this election and a lot of people are taking these debates seriously.

>> John Kerry:
This President has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
The first debate gave Senator John Kerry a boost.

>> Stacy Stuart:
I just watched it on TV, and just the difference watching them, the difference between them, just made me make my decision.

>> What is your plan to repair relations with other countries given the current situation?

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
The second one, a town hall, allowed President George W. Bush to score some points. But not everyone has made up his or her mind yet.

>> Michelle Morgan:
So many people are undecided, I think the debate is going to be a big thing because they want to hear what -- they want to be swayed. I still don't know who I want to vote for. I'm a Republican but I'm undecided at this point.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
Some voters who made up minds based on the earlier debates looked for how "presidential" candidates appeared, whether they had a grasp of the issues, if they were comfortable, and if they seemed to squirm or scowl. Undecided voters we talked with say they really want to hear what the candidates have to say in the domestic policy issues in the final debate. What in particular do they want President Bush and Senator Kerry to talk about?

>> Priscilla Johnson:
I think two things are going to really impact this economy, energy costs and health costs, and they're going to drive us into the ground if we don't find a remedy for both.

>> Michelle Morgan:
I'd like to hear them address the new statistics they have about unemployment and the way that everybody is feeling about the economy, because when I talk to everybody, nobody is feeling good about the economy, whereas they say -- or report statistically that things are looking better.

>> John Kerry:
Military's job is to win the war. President's job is to win the peace.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
Undecided voters may be in for a surprise if they're expecting the debate to provide more than bullet point proposals or explanations.

>> George Watson, Ph.D.:
It doesn't do quite as well in terms of explicating issues very clearly. But nonetheless, it's the best opportunity that people have to hear candidates talking about issues in their own words because on the campaign not very many people get to actually hear the candidates.

>> John Kerry:
This President chose a tax cut over homeland security, wrong choice.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
No doubt candidates will bring their best offense and defense in the form of rehearsed attacks and responses.

>> George W. Bush:
We'll do everything we can to protect the homeland. My opponent is right, we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to say since right after 1993 he voted to cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
It may not be the Super Bowl or College Championship, but the outcome of this event may have a much more profound effect than anything Tempe has ever hosted.

>> Michael Grant:
Joining me now to preview the debate is former Arizona Congressman Matt Salmon, and Fred Duval, a former assistant to President Clinton for intergovernmental affairs. A very august crew. Gentlemen, good to see both of you. We want to talk about issues in a minute but first let's talk about, I don't know, strategy or tactics or whatever. We're or will be three weeks -- less than three weeks away from the general election. What does President Bush need to do with this debate tomorrow?

>> Matt Salmon:
I think with this debate he needs to be focused and he needs to be pleasant and he needs to be responsive to the questions that are laid out there. You know, one of the things that -- I've heard people complain about both debates is it's kind of like missiles going back and forth and there isn't a lot of response to questions that are posed. It's just kind of missiles going back and forth. I think that he needs to go back and be the guy that he is. I got to spend quite a bit of time with him during my campaign for governor, and I've got to tell you, he just has a real warmth and a real depth of his character. He's a touchable person that when you meet him, you like him. And I think if he can connect with the American people, like he did in the first campaign, and like he has done so many other times, if he could just come across as this is a guy that I trust and this is a guy that I would actually hang out with if I had the opportunity and that's what he needs to do.

>> Michael Grant:
In fact, was that one of the reasons why -- I think the town hall format played more to his strengths than necessarily this more formal debate format will tomorrow.

>> Matt Salmon:
I think that the town hall setting is very, very much a -- an asset to George Bush because he really does connect well with people one on one, and when he goes out there and makes his case, you know, kind of in an a more informal setting, he shines. I think that's his best attribute.

>> Michael Grant:
Senator Kerry generally regarded as having done very well in the first debate. He's back in that debate format tomorrow, bode well for Senator Kerry?

>> Fred DuVal:
I think so. I agree with Matt that the president was certainly better in the town hall debate than the first for a whole host of reasons and I think format may have had something to do with it. Kerry's objective is, I think, twofold. First, he's got to play offense without being offensive. He's got to make Bush's record the issue of the debate. Not his voting record, not other extraneous things but really try to make this a referendum on bush's economic record, record on healthcare, et cetera. Secondly, I think you'll see a continuation, much as he laid out the case that he thinks bush is being too disturb unon his ideology in Iraq, can't admit a mistake, that you will get the same thing on the tax strategies. But when I say he can't be offensive, this is a lot about sitting in people's living rooms. You are sizing them up as somebody. Matt is talking about Bush's strengths as someone as a communicator.

>> Michael Grant:
It's a Marshall McLuhan thing. It's the Marshall McLuhan thing, and to a great extent, a lot of the undecideds have made a soft decision against bush but haven't made an affirmative for Kerry. For Kerry that's about establishing a rapport through the television set.

>> Matt Salmon:
I think so much really does go back to, do I feel comfortable -- would I be comfortable if I was around this individual, if I was physically in the same room? Would I feel comfortable enough to approach that person? And I think President Bush has all those characteristics and hopefully tomorrow it will come out.

>> Michael Grant:
Immigration policy, that going to come up tomorrow?

>> Matt Salmon:
I doubt it. I'm interested in what Fred says, but that's one of those issues that just ignites -- I mean, no matter what they say, it's going to be a bomb lobbed back at them and on both counts. You know, with Kerry's proposal, it's going to come back that's amnesty light. And -- I mean there's going to be a lot of -- no win scenarios played out if that issue comes up. People are so angry, especially in this state, in the western states, about the lack of performance of their government in dealing with illegal immigration and now that people of middle eastern decent, possibly even Al Qaida folks are coming across the Mexican border. It's a big concern, but I don't -- I saw a very astute article, I think it was in the "Arizona Republic" a couple weeks ago, talking about why they're not going to address and I agree. I don't think they're going to touch it with a 10-foot pole. What do you think.

>> Fred DuVal:
I tend to agree. It's a very important issue and a disproportionately issue forness Arizona but Schieffer has a different set of parameters, he is looking at national issues that talk to folks in in a whom as much as they do talk to folks in Oregon and I think that from standpoint it's an important issue but probably doesn't make the cut.

>> Michael Grant:
All right, tax cuts, I think, probably --

>> Fred DuVal:
You can take that one to the bank.

>> Michael Grant:
That's going to come up. Actually the differences between the two candidates pretty stark on that particular issue. What does Senator Kerry do to just keep hitting the theme of tax cuts are good but these have been focused at the wrong group. Snoops exactly right.

>> Fred DuVAL:
I think the way the case will be made is George Bush has made choices and he made a choice for tax cuts every single year disproportionately in favor of higher income Americans which has taken us from the highest surplus to the highest deficit in American history and squeezed out resources for homeland security, healthcare and other commitments that the federal government would like to make and that that is a choice that the president made and should leave voters to make a choice based upon that.

>> Michael Grant:
Incidentally, does the deficit issue play well with the large body politic.

>> Fred DuVal:
I'll defer to Matt, but it is extraordinary -- it is such an important issue and it does not seem to be a cutting issue, not withstanding -- it has real ramifications.

>> Matt Salmon:
The pundits will talk about the deficit and guys like me and Fred will be very concerned about deficit issues but I want to go back to something, I don't believe -- I'm going to say this before I talk about Bush's policies, but I really am not a believer that presidential policies have all that much impact on the economy one way or the other.

>> Michael Grant:
Oh, absolutely. Alan Greenspan has a lot more impact on the economy than the president.

>> Matt Salmon:
During the boon years, during the '90s, there was a lot of super-productivity in the United States, the dot com phenomenon and 401(k) programs were going through the roof, and it really was more business driven than it was government driven. Conversely, a lot of our economic woes in the last -- or in the several years ago really were because of the bubble bust with the dot com industry and also 9/11, impacted our tourism industry and travel like no tomorrow.

And so I don't think that the early days with our economic woes really you can lay that blame at President Bush's feet. I am a supply cider, Michael, and I do believe tax relief and not just targeted tax cuts at middle class or lower middle class earning people, but Phil Graham put it best, I was working on his campaign when he ran for president, he said, I never got a job from a poor guy. These groups that Kerry wants to take the tax cuts away from, 200,000 worth, those are small business owners, and seven out of ten jobs in our economy today come from the small business sector. What do they do when they get tax cuts? They hire more people, they buy more equipment, they grow their jobs and they become middle to large-size companies.

>> Michael Grant:
In fairness I have to give you a rebuttal opportunity on that in you want.

>> Fred DuVal:
I appreciate that. Look, it ought to matter. Not withstanding we're sort of agreeing it doesn't seem to be a cutting edge issue since Perot made it one, but it ought to matter. Why? Because the cost of paying for the deficit is a huge part of why we're in such trouble in Washington. We're basically surviving on foreign money, which puts us in a terribly difficult economic position and to say nothing of a diplomatic position.

The President doesn't have an enormous influence on this issue, but a balanced budget does and to the extent to which a president can get the budget into balance as President Clinton did, you re-earn the confidence of wall street, it lowers interest rates, that's a tax cut for everybody else and that's an economic stimulus and so I -- I think that this deficit issue ought to be a huge concern and the fact we've gone from the highest surplus to the highest deficit is an important policy choice that President Bush ought to be held accountable on.

>> Michael Grant:
They'll continue to ham out these issues tomorrow night. I want to get to a couple social issues. Obviously sharp differences on gay marriage and also abortion between the two candidates. Do those issues, though, play more to the respective bases of the candidates, though necessarily, than trying to capture whatever this 7 or 8 or 9% may be in the middle?

>> Fred DuVal:
Yes. And would it actually surprise me if they come up simply because I don't think they help undecided voters sort out their choices. I think people who feel passionately about some of these cultural issues will very quickly find themselves in one camp or the other and as a result it ought to be to not be one of the major issues to the debate.

>> Michael Grant:
Do you need to play to the core, though?

>> Matt Salmon:
You can't win a campaign without the core on either side. If the base isn't motivated, if they're not motivated if they're not energized, they don't get out, then you can't win the campaign, you simply can't. You know, the issues that you just spoke about, whether it's abortion or partial birth abortion or gay marriage, they have always been underlining issues in the campaign, and I think one of the things that Americans ought to focus on, you don't hear a lot about it in the debates and you don't really read a lot about it in the paper but this next president will appoint as many as three Supreme Court justices, and we have learned by experience that Supreme Court justices create as much policy as the president does and maybe more. "Roe vs. Wade" was handed to us by the Supreme Court. Prayer in school issue was handed to us by the Supreme Court. And ultimately the issue of gay marriage, I think, is going to be decided by the Supreme Court, and so, you know, a lot of people will focus their attention on the Commander-in-Chief who has the ability to appoint Supreme Court justices. From that realm it will have some impact.

>> Michael Grant:
Only about 30 seconds left. Is there any lightning strike that Senator Kerry needs to avoid -- is there a really bad ball that he deflects off?

>> Fred DuVAL:
No, I think what you're going to have is a lot of labeling. Kerry talking about bush being out of the mainstream. Bush talking about Kerry being out of the mainstream. It's going to be a lot of riffraff about how they define each other but at the end of the day I think it's really going to be about the economy, about healthcare and about education, stuff that touches people's daily lives.

>> Matt Salmon:
Michael, at the end of the day candidates can make any promises that they want, and we all know from sad experiences that candidates don't always keep their word on promises they make. You have to look at the record, both Senator Kerry's record and President Bush's record and then decide I know where they're going to go based on their record.

>> Michael Grant:
When people see tomorrow night's debate on TV they won't see all the work that went into putting it together. Paul Atkinson looks at the role volunteers play in pulling it off.

>> Bo Yuan:
Would you wait while we try to locate her? Okay. Thank you.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
Bo Yuan is back at ASU eight years after graduating.

>> Bo Yuan:
I'm volunteering because this is a special event for me. It has special meaning for me. I just became a citizen last year. This is the first year I get to vote. So I thought when this opportunity came up via online, I thought, what a neat experience to be a part of the history. It's happening at ASU. So this is really special.

>> Bill Ahearn:
So behind us are the platforms where the major networks will have their key anchors.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
Bill Ahearn is a long-time Gammage season ticketholder. He is in charge of coordinating other volunteers.

>> Bill Ahearn:
We have about 1100 volunteers who put their name into the computer database to want to help, and the volunteers I have are just one small group. We're checking credentials of people coming onto the grounds and again people coming into the various buildings on the grounds.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
ASU junior marketing major Kyle Giannuzzi hopes to see a candidate while getting good experience as a volunteer.

>> Kyle Giannuzzi:
The actual time working here, I mean, I met a lot of great people, a lot of people that will be friends after this. And getting to know everyone around that works here with all this, just I've learned so much.

>> Reporter Paul Atkinson:
For some volunteers like Bo there's not much to do the day before the debate. That will change tomorrow.

>> Michael Grant:
After more than a year of planning by people at ASU the day has arrived. Tomorrow night President Bush, Senator Kerry facing off in the final presidential debate. You can see live coverage right here on Channel 8. It all begins at 6:00 tomorrow night. The debate runs an hour-and-a-half. Followed by a special edition of the news hour with Jim Lehrer at 7:30, then at 8:00 watch for a live special edition of "Horizon." We'll have highlights of the debate, along with local analysis. Thank you very much for joining us this evening. I'm Michael Grant. I hope you have a great one! Good night.

 

Back to the top