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November 11, 2004

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
· Veterans' Day Special
In-Studio Guests:
· Major Eileen Bienz, Arizona Army National Guard;
· Bradley Buckhout, M.D., Director, Geriatric and Extended Care Department, Veterans Medical Center, Phoenix.

>> Michael Grant:
Tonight on "Horizon," a Veteran's Day special as we take a look at the challenges facing veterans from the present and those who are fading into the past. Also, you'll meet one of the few Hispanic pilots from World War II. That's up next on "Horizon." Good evening. Welcome to "Horizon." I'm Michael Grant. Besides facing the obvious challenges of war in Iraq, soldiers serving there face many other problems, as do their families. Here tonight to tell us more of the issues faced by those serving in Iraq and Afghanistan is Major Eileen Bienz of the Arizona Army National Guard. Eileen, it's good to see you again.

>> Eileen Bienz:
Thank you very much for inviting me this evening.

>> Michael Grant:
How many troops deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan?

>> Eileen Bienz:
Currently the Arizona army and Air National Guard have about 800 soldiers and airmen deployed in "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and operation enduring freedom and since September 11th of 2001, we've had almost 2800 soldiers and airmen that have been activated in support of all three missions.

>> Michael Grant:
Now, what sort of assignments?

>> Eileen Bienz:
Oh, everything from truck companies, transportation companies that have been deployed over our military police units. Recently we deployed our Blackhawk helicopter company from the Army National Guard. In fact the week after Thanksgiving we're going to be deploying another military police unit.

>> Michael Grant:
Now, I know that the Air National Guard has a strong refueling presence here. Has that been deployed, I would take it?

>> Eileen Bienz:
The refuelling assets were did primarily deployed at the beginning and they're always you used for the forward operating bridge as they're bringing aircraft over but more heavily tasked has been the Arizona Air National Guard. We're on our 27th unit that's been called up and notified they will be deployed to the theater of operations.

>> Michael Grant:
How long is the deployment typically?

>> Eileen Bienz:
Typically they go for what's call one-year boots on the ground. It's kind of moved as the whole process has gone on. Because when they depart Arizona they go to a mobilization station, and their stay can last from a couple weeks to perhaps a month and then they actually get deployed to the theater of operations. So they'll spend about a year in the theater before they come back.

>> Michael Grant:
I take it obviously the transition period is used to get them informed and some attempt at acclimatization and acclimation and that kind of thing in relation to whatever their assignment will be over there?

>> Eileen Bienz:
Absolutely. One of the things that's been going on as the process or war continues are some of like the EOD teams or explosive ordnance teams coming back and telling the soldiers about IEDs, but improvised explosive devices that are sometimes put in roadways over there. It's those types of things and some of the urban warfare techniques they're learning that our soldiers get updated on what's currently going on.

>> Michael Grant:
This is tough stuff. Obviously the military operation is difficult but it seems to me that what you face over there at this point in time is in many respects much more difficult than what we were facing a year-and-a-half ago as the troops were driving across the desert.

>> Eileen Bienz:
Well, true. The soldiers I've talked to, they said it's been very challenging, but again, all these soldiers are trained to the same standards. We have the total force, which is the active, the guard and the reserve, and so these folks have gotten very creative with some of the ways they do it. In the case of improvised explosive devices we'll come up with a countermeasure and they'll come one a countermeasure to our countermeasure. So it's a continually moving process that's going on but we have brilliant people working these issues for us.

>> Michael Grant:
I understand there was an Arizona unit in the vicinity of that munitions depot at Al Qaqa?

>> Eileen Bienz:
Yes, there was. The 258th from the Arizona Army National Guard were about five miles away from that particular area. As a matter of fact we just got done doing interviews with local TV stations concerning what they saw when they were there and how they became upon that particular area.

>> Michael Grant:
What did they say and how did they come upon that particular area and stuff like that?

>> Eileen Bienz:
They were actually in that particular vicinity from the 4th of April in 2003 until the 2nd of June 2003, and again it probably would take longer than your program for me to tell you the story, but a according to the commander, once they got there, sometimes as they would send out patrols in the vicinity, they would hear either gunfire, explosions, things like that. So as the patrols would go out to a nearby village, they would determine that oftentimes it wasn't that they were necessarily shooting at the American troops, but it was different people shooting at each other, and this area is -- where my unit was located was on the other side of the river, so they had to make sure that the area was safe for our soldiers actually deployed there and again would come upon hearing these things. Upon further investigation, they found out that there was this particular ammo area, and at that time they up channeled it through their command chain and there was an explosive ordnance detachment sent out and they did a survey with them through the bunkers and so forth.

>> Michael Grant:
At that point in time there were munitions present?

>> Eileen Bienz:
Absolutely.

>> Michael Grant:
They're scattered all over the country aren't they?

>> Eileen Bienz:
He said it was a huge complex, this particular area people are talking about, and when my unit arrived again on the other side of the river, the 101st airborne was there at that time and we have to keep in mind it's a war, and the 101st was eventually moved and then the marines were given responsibility for that particular area. My unit was not responsible for that area but again as they were doing these patrols to find out what was going on, they would come across that particular ammo location.

>> Michael Grant:
Any of the guard members participate in the -- they're doing the two-week furlough home program. Do the guard members participate in that?

>> Eileen Bienz:
They do. We've had several members of the guard units that have been able to come home for two weeks and get to be with their families and see everyone and they do in fact deploy back to the theater.

>> Michael Grant:
Nobody would ever want to skip that but there has been some discussion about that's so bittersweet, I mean, you know, you come back, you're back in the United States, you see the family, that kind of thing and then you got to redeploy. I guess everybody looks at it and says, at least it was two weeks?

>> Eileen Bienz:
What I've heard from a lot of our families have been how much they've enjoyed seeing the soldiers. Of course, it's very sad when they have to leave, but they know they have a job to do and they have a mission to do and they're very well trained to do it. It's particularly wonderful for the children of those that have been deployed over, of the moms, the dads, cousins or uncles or aunts or grandparents in a lot of cases. But just to be able to come home, see your family for a while and have a break has been -- from the feedback I've gotten, incredible. Many of the soldiers have even told me that when they're on the planes in their desert camouflage uniforms that whole planes will stand up and applaud them or people are buying them dinners or people walk up in the airport and say thank you for your service. For us it's been a great thing. The stories go back when they go back to the unit.

>> Michael Grant:
There's been a lot of community support across the board. I know E.J. Montini was on the program a while back auctioning off the baseball, and there -- I think there's been a tremendous amount of community support for those serving.

>> Eileen Bienz:
We cannot thank Arizona citizens enough for the community support that we've had. We have families that are incredible. We have employers that are incredible. And people like Mr. E.J. Montini, I can't say enough about him, because he has done more for our cause than anyone else to bring to people's attention -- I guess I should it like he puts it. He'll oftentimes write in his column you can agree with the war or you can disagree with the war, but one thing we should all agree on is to support our troops. To me, that's what it all comes down to, and between the governor when she actually announced her homeland heroes program at the beginning, again, she's the commander and chief of the National Guard, so she's been fabulous about getting throughout and getting to different companies and employers, but the community has truly wrapped their arms around us in support not just us, but the guard and the serve and the active components.

>> Michael Grant:
You had a freedom salute of recently?

>> Eileen Bienz:
We did. As a matter of fact I was up in Northern Arizona this past weekend. Two of our units, one was the 1404th transportation company based in Show Low and the 22 20th based out of Flagstaff and Prescott. We had what's called a freedom salute and each of the soldiers were given an American flag encased with a wood encase and coins on it thanking them for their dedicated service, and I tell you, there wasn't a dry eye in the entire auditorium for either ceremony because each of them was also able to give a medallion to someone who has made an impact on their lives and oftentimes it was either their wife or their husband or perhaps their oldest child or their mother or their father and again oftentimes their parents were veterans also.

>> Michael Grant:
Man that's just absolutely incredible. Eileen Bienz, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for your service, too.

>> Eileen Bienz:
Again, we thank everyone for putting their arms around the National Guard, reserves and the active duty at this time and thank you so much for the continued support of the community.

>> Michael Grant:
All right. Although they were not segregated, Hispanics did face some unique challenges when serving during World War II and not many served in the army Air Forces. Some of those who did are featured in a book by Tempe author Rudy Villareal. The book is "Arizona Hispanic Flyboys: 1941-1945" one of those featured is Gilbert Orrantia of Mesa. He flew more than 50 missions in a B-25 over Italy and Africa. Mike Sauceda tells us more about his exploits.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
I remember one time there was a hole in the back on the top right between the bomb, a big hole, and it indicated that the shell had come when the Bombay doors were open because there was no hole in the Bombay doors but there was a hole on the top. The jagged part was to the outside. So we knew it came through the Bombay and exploded up above. We felt the concussion.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
One of several narrow escapes by Mesa resident Gilbert Orrantia 'who flew 50 missions during World War II from November of 1942 until he returned stateside a year later to become a combat flight instructor. How narrow? The round could have hit these 100 pound bombs spaced apart by a couple feet. Orrantia was born in 1917 in Clarkdale and graduated from Clarkdale High School in 1936. After that he attended what was then known as Arizona State Teachers College in Tempe for two years. That was enough to allow him to control his war destiny.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
By this time it was school year '40-41. So the draft was being instituted and we were signed up, and I was going to be drafted because I was real close to the original number that they pulled. So I decided I had go ahead and volunteer for the army air corps. They want you to have two years of college and that's what I had.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
Orrantia met all the requirements to become a pilot and was undergoing psychological testing when the doctor asked about his nationality.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
He said you're a Mexican aren't you. Yes I am. You're going to have a Huard time. My reply was if I have passed all the examinations you put your signature on the piece of paper and I take my chances with the best you've got and if I can't cut the mustard, I don't deserve to be a pilot. He said, if that's the way you want it.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
Orrantia trained in several states on various planes rising to the rank of second lieutenant. His first mission was in northern Africa as a co-pilot.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
We're jumping all over the sky and I look over to the left and they hit the ship, and it was one of my Buddies we had been together and they blew that ship together. But they all got out. They all got out. I saw the parachutes. I felt like my skin was crocodile skin. I felt real goofy. Oh, heck, that was a cinch.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
At 86 years old Orrantia is still able to climb into the cockpit of a restored B-25 at the commemorative Air Force museum in Mesa.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
It's interesting to get back because as I look at this, I wonder now, did I learn all those? Because you had to learn these by heart. They'd blindfold you and you'd say this is the compass and this -- and this is the flight indicator. You would have to touch it and tell them what it was.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
Being in a B-25 for the first time in over 50 years, Orrantia remembered one of his heroing experience as a B25 pilot which came on a low altitude bombing mission of a German ship. Orrantia's job was to fly 200 feet above the ocean to skip bombs on the water like a stone and into the ship.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
I remember we were so low that my tail gunner would say we're so low, dip the tail and I get us some fish for supper. This is the part right here that was shot off.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
But his bomber came under fire.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
That right vertical stabilizer, the one in the back there, was destroyed, and so we had to use left rudder, full left rudder, left stick and forward stick, and it took the co-pilot and myself all our strength to move that and hold it there, because we couldn't get any more altitude. We only had about 200 feet of altitude over the ocean. When we had kind of ballooned up a little bit before they hit us from pretty close to the surface. When they blew that out, so we're holding it and we get to an airfield that was only about 10, 15 minutes away, and we knew exactly where it was, a little English airfield. So we land there had. It took a lot of doing to land because, you know, it was very difficult to maneuver the plane. You had to make very slight movements so you wouldn't drop a wing. So we landed, and just stopped at the end of the runway, and pretty soon here comes the British in the Jeep and they look up at the rudder, and it's all blown to heck. We had already gotten down and looked at it. And they went around the plane and looked at it and said, Blymie, how did you BLOKES get that aircraft on the ground.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
There were other frightening moments for Orrantia like a belly landing when his front nose gear would not deploy or the time his plane's windshield was shattered.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
I told you about the windshield where it was all cracked and I had to fly this way to land because I couldn't see anything. We'd checked the nose wheel, see that everything looked all right, and then we would go on and check the props, check to see that they had been pulled through, because if they weren't pulled through, the oil that collected in the bottom cylinder by explode that cylinder when you started it.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
Hispanics were not segregated in the military and Orrantia was one of the few Hispanics in the air corps. He says he didn't experience a lot of discrimination but there were some instances.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
Guy would say, well, Mexicans are dirty and greasy. And he's an officer. He's a pilot. He's a big guy. He's as dark as I am. He must have been about 6'4". And I happened to catch him saying to that a bunch of other officers when I came up. And so I went straight up to him and I said, look, big boy, what are you talking about? You're talking about me. I'm a Mexican. I'm a Mexican-American. Oh, no -- you know, the -- their reply was always, oh, you're different. You're different. I said, bull, I'm not different. I'm just like every one of those people that are out there that you call Mexicans. And -- he apologized, but I -- you know, I never got to -- for a long time I didn't -- I just stayed away from him.

>> Reporter Mike Sauceda:
Orrantia's story is one of 77 featured in a book called "Arizona Hispanic Flyboys: 1941-1945" it lists 185 Arizona Hispanics who served as pilots, co-pilots, bombardiers, gunners, radio operators on planes during World War II. He later became a French and Spanish professor at Mesa Community College and a community activist. It's been over 50 years since he's flown a B25 but an experience he has always carried with him.

>> Gilbert Orrantia:
It was a wonderful experience. I wouldn't give it up for anything in the world. I loved flying them. I didn't particularly care for people shooting at me and stuff, but that comes with the territory.

>> Michael Grant:
Here now to talk to us about challenges faced by World War II vets like Gilbert is Doctor Bradley Buckhout of the veterans medical center in Phoenix. He is head of the geriatrics and extended care department at the hospital. You used to be a family practitioner.

>> Bradley Buckhout:
That's correct up until two years ago.

>> Michael Grant:
What drew you to this?

>> Bradley Buckhout:
My former associate had the same position I have now and we had been partners in family practice for 10 years. When he retired' suggested I come look at the position at the nursing home care unit at the VA medical center. It was quite a change in practice approach.

>> Michael Grant:
I was going to say, I would think that would be a very abrupt change.

>> Bradley Buckhout:
It was preventative medicine family in family practice and looking at the group now, it's mostly chronic disease management, you know, we're dealing with for the World War II vets anywhere from late 70s to early 90s in age, and dealing with all the medical issues that an 80-year-old person gets, diabetes hypertension, vascular disease, lung problems, cancer, the whole gamut of common medical problems that these people are suffering.

>> Michael Grant:
Gilbert obviously was in excellent shape. Is he the exception, not the rule?

>> Bradley Buckhout:
My population is skewed because I'm dealing with a nursing home population. But on the other hand a lot of the guys that we're seeing that come through that are World War II vets have come in because they needed a knee replacement or hip replacement so they could continue playing tennis. So it's not unheard of. Our long-term residents are people who are not able to stay in the community at this point.

>> Michael Grant:
There have been some conditions associated with some wars. Certainly the use of the -- chemicals for the first time, mustard gas, agent orange and others in Vietnam. My feel is there's not that kind of health issue associated with World War II veterans.

>> Bradley Buckhout:
I would agree with that statement. We don't see a lot of commonality. Several of the fellows we have lost limbs or portions of limbs from explosives, one gentleman who was storming the beach at Normandy lost his right leg in those attacks and has survived and is now in his mid-80s. But there -- there isn't a chemical sort of thing or any kind of common infectious disease sorts of issues we see more commonly with the Vietnam vets.

>> Michael Grant:
16 million men and women under arm in World War II. In 2000 only about 5.7 million of them were left. Obviously age -- they are leaving us more and more rapidly.

>> Bradley Buckhout:
That's one of the difficult things, I think is losing this legacy because these are very special survivors. I mean, these people have been through a lot, and one of the things that a lot of them try to do is keep in touch with the younger people. We have several that go to schools and lecture about World War II. We have a lot of student groups that come through our nursing home and sit down and talk with the vets. So unfortunately I think with them dying off because of their age, the legacy that they have that they can sort of teach us is sort of fading away with them.

>> Michael Grant:
What's the key challenge for them?

>> Bradley Buckhout:
I think the major challenge that really upsets them is loss of independence. Again, as I said, they're survivors, they're guys who don't want to rely on anybody else. They want to be out and being able to do -- and taking care of themselves but a lot of their health issues have prevented that from occurring, and unfortunately in a lot of situations, the families are -- I mean, the children are in their 60s, and they're dealing with their own health issues and it becomes very difficult for the families to help, to keep dad at home as he ages and has more medical problems.

>> Michael Grant:
Sure.

>> Bradley Buckhout:
That's been, I think, the biggest challenges, is maintaining independence.

>> Michael Grant:
You mentioned several conditions. Are there predominant ones that plague the veterans of World War II?

>> Bradley Buckhout:
Because of -- back in those days smoking was a much more accepted sort of thing, so we do see a lot of chronic bronchitis, chronic lung diseases in this age group and the smoking contribute to a lot of their vascular disease, so heart attacks. Peripheral vascular disease is a huge issue; poor circulation to the legs and feet has led to amputation in a lot of them, particularly in the gentlemen, mostly males, who are diabetic as well. Again, it's a disease of aging. Their diabetes has come on in the last 20 years, perhaps, and many of them are so independent they never really sought healthcare, so they haven't really taken good care of themselves and the disease complications are rampant in a lot of them.

>> Michael Grant:
Neglect in other areas, too, or have they kept all things considered you know fairly good care of themselves?

>> Bradley Buckhout:
You know, the large majority of them, I think, are in remarkably good shape for their age and what they've been through. But there are always the exceptions that provide us with the challenges.

>> Michael Grant:
I'm sure, Doctor, you get regaled with a variety of different stories from the battle of the bulge, Normandy --

>> Bradley Buckhout:
Normandy. We have several now in the unit that was prisoners of war in Germany, again, fighter pilots and bomber pilots who were shot down and spent years in prisoner of war camps in Germany. Interesting stories to hear from them.

>> Michael Grant:
Well, Dr. Buckhout, I appreciate very much the information. It is challenging. It's been referred to as the greatest generation and certainly you'll get no argument from me.

>> Bradley Buckhout:
It's been true honors you remember take care of them.

>> Michael Grant:
There have been over 1100 Americans killed in Iraq since the fighting started, nearly 40 of those were from Arizona or had Arizona ties. Also we have suffered casualties in Afghanistan as well, including the highly publicized death, of course, of former Arizona Cardinals and ASU star Pat Tillman. We end our show tonight with a list of Arizona deaths.

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