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December 17, 2004

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
· The Journalists Roundtable
In-Studio Guests:
· Christina Leonard, "Arizona Republic;"
· Paul Davenport, Associated Press;
· Chip Scutari, "The Arizona Republic"

>> Cary Pfeffer:
It is Friday December 17th, 2004. In the headlines this week, Maricopa County assessor Kevin Ross has been removed from office following his conviction on a conflict of interest charge. Outgoing Maricopa County attorney Rick Romley held his final news conference as county attorney this week, hinting that he may run for governor or Congress in 2006. And incoming house speaker Jim Weiers says the creation of two appropriations committees will be good for the state. That's next on "Horizon.". Good evening, I'm Cary Pfeffer filling in for Michael Grant. Joining me to talk about these and other stories, Christina Leonard of the "Arizona Republic," Paul Davenport from the associated press and Chip Scutari from "The Arizona Republic". Now to our first item o Thursday a jury returned a guilty verdict against Maricopa County assessor Kevin Ross on a conflict of interest charge. Judge Thomas O'Toole ordered Ross to give up his office immediately. Christina, first of all, welcome.

>> Christina Leonard:
Thank you.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Your first time here but we'll be easy on you. What did Kevin Ross have to say?

>> Christina Leonard:
You know, he was clearly upset. He said he was blown away by the decision. He really thought the judge would toss out the entire case, and so he's devastated by this. He feels bad and says, yes, he might have slipped up but doesn't believe what did he was criminal.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
At the same time he's probably fortunate from the big picture perspective from an earlier charge was dropped and he wasn't found guilty on all the counts he still faced, correct?

>> Christina Leonard:
Absolutely. He initially faced three counts and he was convicted on only one of those. It could be anywhere from probation to a couple years, but since he doesn't really have any aggravating factors he'll likely get probation.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
What happens with the office in the meantime? It's not like people are hanging on the edge of their seats about the assessor's office but still he's out, so then what happens?

>> Christina Leonard:
There's only a couple weeks left in the year, so what will likely happen is Fred Kelly, the deputy assessor will step in for the next couple weeks until Keith Russell the new assessor will start in January.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
For the two of you, this is another one of those cases that Rick Romley, who we're going to talk about in a minute, pursued. The fact is it's not like a major case, high profile case, but the person who had that office obviously is greatly affected. Any thoughts on where this goes or what impact it has beyond what we're talking about here?

>> Chip Scutari:
I'm just worried about the statewide re verb rations of this and how it will affect our public policy here in Arizona. Though people don't know what the Maricopa County assessor does, on election night it was a big deal that Kevin Ross was in some legal hot water, and people, whether you're Republican, Democrat, rural, urban, they just kind of love when politicians under trouble. They'll never admit in that a poll but they are interested when Kevin Ross was in trouble and now Keith Russell won that office. So he'll take office, I believe n January.

>> Paul Davenport:
Who prosecuted this, the A.G.'s office?

>>

>> Cary Pfeffer:
My mistake. But it was one of those situations, like Chip is saying, when a high profile, even if it's not a nationally known case, gets in the headlines, it ends up being the focus of attention.

>> Paul Davenport:
Is he talking about appealing?

>> Christina Leonard:

He did say that he might appeal. It kind of depends on when the judge sentences him. If he gets a lesser sentence, he might not waste his time and money doing an appeal. So we'll have to wait and see.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
A last question, political future for him or is this it?

>> Christina Leonard:
Well, I think he's been scarred a bit by this whole experience, and I would say, no, but who knows.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Exactly. We'll see what happens. Paul, let's talk a little bit about the Attorney General's office and a decision or thoughts from that office on prop 200.

>> Paul Davenport:
That's right. Some more skirmishing in the prop 200 cases, there's the state court case where some supporters want to expand the reach of Prop 200, there's the federal case where some opponents want to have it overturned. Goddard has -- God Goddard and his folks have filed motions in both cases. The big thing is the hearing in Tucson next week before a federal judge on that order -- excuse me, on that lawsuit to overturn prop 200. There's a stay in effect of most of the services portions, and that will be a big day.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
And you have to have a program to keep up with all the sort of back and forth it seems like?

>> Paul Davenport:
That's right. To top it off, the voting provision are also pending in the Justice Department. At least three different things goings-on.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Which means bottom line nothing much happens with prop 200 until this stuff gets ironed out.

>> Paul Davenport:
We may have a significant development next week but this week, skirmishing.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
All righty. Judge Marquez asked to set a new deadline for lawmakers, also something you've given some thought to, Paul in.

>> Paul Davenport:
That's right. Another federal judge? Tucson. He is being asked by plaintiffs in a decade-old school finance case to set a deadline for legislators to significantly increase funding for instruction of students who are learning an English language. This case has been going on for a while. The state commissioned a study. It hasn't been released yet. The legislative special committee was supposed to have done a recommendation by earlier this month. That's nowhere in sight. So Tim Hogan has gone to court and asked the judge to set a deadline at the end of the next legislative session. If they don't meet that, let's talk about sanctions like shutting down the public school finance system, stopping the flow of federal funds to the state. Both of those would have major consequences.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
So it's a hammer over lawmakers and others to try to --

>> Paul Davenport:
It will be a nice rude surprise for some of the new legislators.

>> Chip Scutari:
This is kind of the elephant in the middle of the room that no one is talking about. Everyone is prepping for a battle over all-day kindergarten which is near and dear to Governor Napolitano's heart. That's about a 40 million expenditure. This could be up to 200 million which is a big hit for a state that's still in what -- Republican lawmakers call structural deficit, whatever that is. But it could be a big deal and Tim Hogan has proven before he can take the state to its knees over public school financing. He's not one to be messed around with.

>> Paul Davenport:
And this judge in Tucson, Judge Marquez, has earlier in the same case displayed some impatience with the state. So now we are years later and these promised steps have not been done.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
And speaking of years long mental battles, the issue of mental health is getting more attention in trying to sort of sort out what has been a battle over many years.

>> Paul Davenport:
About two decades, as a matter of fact. And that played out this morning in Superior Court. A retired judge, who has been handling this case for a long time, Bernard Dougherty, and he is still bird dogging this one. Basically we're talking about money to pay for care for seriously mentally ill people in Maricopa County, about 17,000 people. The plaintiffs have won court order after court order but there have been charges over the years the services remain inadequate. Today the judge accepted promise by the state to take concrete steps time prove the services. The governor sent her chief lawyer to make those promises. So they're on the record now with a list of things they seem to need to be done.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
So they bought themselves basically some more time but I would assume families who have been waiting are probably registering some frustration along the way?

>> Paul Davenport:
There was a lot of citizen input into this process in recent months. The monitor and other people that solicited input to get a feel for what's wrong and the plaintiffs attorneys made it clear the next time if they have to be in court with a problem they're going to be asking for sanctions, too.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Before we leave the legal world, maybe something that's not quite as wide ranging, but certainly something that's gotten some attention, county board member Mary Rose Wilcox found herself with some legal troubles as well, and a decision in that case. Christina why don't you talk about the background.

>> Christina Leonard:
I have to say I haven't covered a whole lot of this particular case but she is facing a couple misdemeanors, and, you know, we'll see how that plays out. They're not very heavy charges, but --

>> Cary Pfeffer:
When you're a public official it's not probably the thing you want --

>> Christina Leonard:
It's not what you want to see happen.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Just a background for people who are unfamiliar, she and Hearst Bundt, Earl Wilcox, had property, tore down a building on that property and it happened to be one of a few hundred-plus-year-old homes in the city and obviously those kinds of things raise eyebrows.

>> Paul Davenport:
Wasn't their account of this was they didn't know the historical status of it?

>> Christina Leonard:
They say they didn't know. The city says they sent a letter saying this was a historical home. So, you know, who knows.

>> Paul Davenport:
Maybe they were busy and just didn't read the letter.

>> Christina Leonard:
They thought they would run the restaurant --

>> Cary Pfeffer:
I'm old enough to remember when Mary Rose was on the city council and historic preservation was an issue that she would be championing. So that's also part of the two-edged sword. ?

>> Christina Leonard:
Every time I talked to she says she feels horrible about it once she found out, but, you know, we'll wait and see.

>> Chip Scutari:
Have any of her colleagues on the board of supervisors called her for her to resign over this?

>> Christina Leonard:
No.

>> Chip Scutari:
No big deal?

>> Christina Leonard:
I wouldn't say no big deal but they have not.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
We will see what happens with that and if there are any additional repercussions. Moving on now, although it's only been a month since the 2004 election positioning is already under way for the 2006 election in Arizona in that week in his final news conference as county attorney, Rick Romley talked about his future political plans and, Chip, pretty soon he is going to wake up and it's going to be the next day of the rest of his life. So where does that go?

>> Chip Scutari:
Cary, I want to tell you, this is not a campaign brochure. It's an annual report. I just wanted to show it to our viewers. This is Rick Romley. I think there's 20 full-color pictures of him kind of recapping all his brilliant successes.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
You have to grab your microphone. We don't want to miss a single word of your scintillating analysis of what's going on with the county attorney. While you're getting situated, it's important to point out there was apparently no annual report last year but they were saving up for this one?

>> Chip Scutari:
And Romley is gearing up for 2006. He clearly wants to run for either governor or for congressional seat. The main man in all this is congressman J.D. Hayworth. If he decides to run, he would be the heavy favorite. He is probably the only guy can that clear the pry primary field because in 2002 we saw a brutal GOP primary that hurt Matt Salmon. So he is holding all the cards. Basically he said if J.D. Hayworth runs for governor I will run for his congressional seat.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
I wasn't at the news conference but that was my sense, he was -- that this was a signal sending process, not only his final news conference as county attorney but sort of saying I wouldn't mind being the candidate for governor but I don't want to have an all-out battle for it.

>> Chip Scutari:
It's interesting to me after what Matt Salmon did, he left Congress in 2000, gearing up for a 2002 gubernatorial race, and in a state like Arizona where so many people are moving in and moving out, a lot of people said Matt who? I was surprised Mr. Romley is leaving office. He easily would have won reelection and had -- now he leaves in January, December 31st, and by 2006, people might -- newcomers, new voters to the state my say, Rick who? I was surprised he did that.

>> Christina Leonard:
He also has a 16-year legacy, you know.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Those kinds of things can disappear relatively quickly. What about a possibility he has been talked about or he's at least talked about the possibility of doing something on a federal -- on the federal basis, sort of in the meantime. There are any hints that would be a possibility? Because some people can use that as a platform also.

>> Christina Leonard:
You know, rumors have flown forever about the whole drug czar thing. That was the last thing I heard. Have you guys heard you anything beyond that?

>> Paul Davenport:
No, no whispers. We have the homeland security job opened up again but I have not heard him -- his name mentioned.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
It seems like there might be some possibility within the homeland security department but --

>> Chip Scutari:
Some other senator, some other -- someone else talked about veteran services that Mr. Romley is a decorated Vietnam vet.

>> Paul Davenport:
A job like that would take you out of circulation for in-state campaigning. First of all, you would be in Washington, and it wouldn't be easy to get back, and he's a Maricopa County Paul politician. He needs to expand his base statewide.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
But the report there, 44,000 dollars of vital information, would you say?

>> Chip Scutari:
Well, Christina, what was your reaction.

>> Christina Leonard:
Well, it's 16 years of Rick Romley, highlights, AzSCAM, the temple murder -- calling it an annual report I don't think it's accurate. It's more of a 16-year report. And you're right, they did not do one last year in anticipation of this year's report. But it's very pretty, glossy pages, card stock.

>> Paul Davenport:
What about the words, is it mostly complimentary, or there are any blemishes written about him there?

>> Christina Leonard:
None that can I find. Mostly complimentary. So, you know, there's been some scuttle about the cost of it. I know Rick said at his new news conference that he would do it again, he is very proud of the work he has done, but, you know, you do have taxpayer money being spent on it. It wasn't just the 44,000, that was just printing cost, there's also the mailing cost and it costs $3 to mail everyone of those. One of the supervisors mentioned to me even though he is one floor above Rick's office downtown, his was mailed as opposed to inter-office mail.

>> Paul Davenport:
Some of the legislators were thoughtful enough to hand deliver them to the pressroom they were so impressed by it.

>> Chip Scutari:
Who did he mail this to, public officials --

>> Christina Leonard:
Public officials, the media, law enforcement throughout the state.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Just in case people were wondering what was going on with the county attorney's office in Maricopa County.

>> Christina Leonard:
And there's a few extra.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Stop the presses. Ken Bennett has made a major announcement, this just handed to me -- Paul, what can you tell us about --

>> Paul Davenport:
I was interviewing Senate president Ken Bennett for a pre-session profile and I asked about his previously stated consideration of a governor's race. He said that he is not now planning to run. He's not closing the door with padlocks on it, but he's got it nearly shut tight. He says he's concentrating on the Senate -- he would have been an underdog, especially in a race against Hayworth and Romley. And Arizona legislators, even legislative leaders don't have a great track record in moving on to higher office.

>> Chip Scutari:
I am surprised Senator Bennett said this now. He's not closing the door, but if J.D. Hayworth is not in the race, someone like a Ken Bennett, and if it's Romley, a whole lot of cast of characters, he's talking about could slip through. It's tough. Randall Gnant the former Senate president ran for governor and he didn't have a very desirous run, but, Ken, someone who could clip slip in with a crowded primary field. I'm glad you broke that news.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
That's good. We wanted to get on top of that. All right, on the county side, Jonathan Weissbotch talking about the question about flu shots. Any upshot from that.

>> Christina Leonard:
It's technically not a resignation. It's a retirement. I believe he is 67,68 years old. He thought it was time to retire. County officials say it's been months if not years in the works. So a lot of them say they weren't surprised, but a lot of people are surprised, and there's always the hinting that maybe this last flu shot controversy along with the west Nile earlier this summer might have led to his early retirement.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
We'll see if there's anything more on that but I wanted to before we leave this area talk about Senator McCain. The two people that we're going to be talking about in a second, Paul, have not necessarily seen eye to eye in a while but if we looked at Donald Rumsfeld Christmas card list, I think John McCain's name is officially crossed off.

>> Paul Davenport:
That's right. The A.P. had Mr. McCain in for an interview earlier in our bureau, and we asked him naturally enough about Iraq and the defense department's conduct of the war. Senator McCain has been very critical about that lack of troops, shortage of equipment, specialties missing from the troops who are there, that sort of thing. Back during the Abu Ghraib prison scandal last spring Senator McCain said it was premature to talk about resignation. We decided him to ask what he thought now. He's not going for resignation. He said the president got re-elected, but he said emphatically, that he has no confidence insect Rumsfeld's position in that position. He's one of several prominent Republicans, looker, Hague you will, who have come out very critical of Rumsfeld.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Of all the shake-ups in the cabinet, that's one where the president has chosen not to make a change.

>> Chip Scutari:
Even senator Trent Lott, he has been a pretty close to the White House, has called for the same thing, saying he has a lack of confidence in Rumsfeld pop this one, McCain isn't just on there on his own.

>> Paul Davenport:
Some of the observers are saying the bush administration would be reluctant to toss Rumsfeld over the side that because that would be an admission of failure or -- maybe the timing of the upcoming vote in Iraq may be something to watch in that context.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
The other thing about that that I find fascinating from having covered Senator McCain before he was a senator is that you see some separation here, you know, we're past the election, he was at the president's side throughout that, but now a little bit freer with criticism, although not directly of the president, but of one of the key people the administration.

>> Paul Davenport:
An interesting development on this one, we interviewed him on Monday, that story got national attention, the next day he is 'doing other media interviews in Arizona and from accounts he was -- he appeared to be regretting having made those comments. He wasn't saying he didn't make them, but he wished he hadn't.

>> Chip Scutari:
With regards to Iraq, to Senator McCain's defense, he has been calling for more troops for a long, long time. Even when he supported Bush during the presidential election. So he has been pretty consistent on that point.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
We will see where that goes. Onto other things, preparations are under way for the start of the new state legislative session. In January one change will be the creation of two appropriations committees in the state House of Representatives and, Paul, is the feeling that there's just not enough committees?

>> Paul Davenport:
That's right. The house is now up to 16. The incoming speaker, Jim Weiers, surprise adds lot of folks by creating two appropriations committees. That's unprecedented from everybody I've talked to. This week he's got around to having interviews with reporters who wanted to know why --

>> Cary Pfeffer:
May have a few questions about that.

>> Paul Davenport:
It sounded like it's a put up or shut up sort of thing. He's saying legislators have complained that they haven't had enough say in the appropriations process and he says this is a way to let them have a say and have their fingers in the pot, so to speak, early on in the budget process. Now, you can question whether the appropriations committee actually makes all those key decisions, but at least they're going to know what's going on.

>> Christina Leonard:
So how many people are we talking about with the two committees?

>> Paul Davenport:
Almost half of the entire house. When you add up the memberships and the chairmen that serve -- 28 out of 60 members are going to be on those two committees.

>> Chip Scutari:
In reality you can have two appropriations committees, you can have four. We all know when push comes to shove, it's the governor, the house speaker and Senate president. So it's good for house speaker Weiers to say we're getting more people involved but as Paul knows, being a capital veteran, the real deal is cut behind closed doors and they'll come out and say this is how we're going to vote, everyone vote and say yes. That's how it happens.

>> Paul Davenport:
It will be interesting to see how many of the legislators really enjoy all the time it takes --

>> Cary Pfeffer:
There's one thing to say I want to have more say. There's another thing to sit through what can be a very, very grueling, long, detailed discussion. It's not necessarily fun.

>> Paul Davenport:
One footnote I'll throw on that. Traditionally the appropriations committees are used as last-minute opportunities for strike everything amendments. Now there's an extra shot at that.

>> Chip Scutari:
In the last four sessions probably really appropriations committee has changed. They used to have subappropriations, it used to be a big integral part of the appropriations, the budget making process but lately, since Governor Napolitano has come into office in 2003, it's really been diminished. It's there for the process to move bills along but it's really kind of lost some of its luster in the last couple of sessions.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
We'll see what the two committees do. On onto the discussion of ASU changes, there have been all sorts of ideas floated out there, major changes for the university, and now other people are raising the flags and saying they want to have more say. Is that accurate?

>> Paul Davenport:
That's right. And what we're talking about here is the governor met with Senate president Bennett and house speaker designee Jim Weiers and regents president Gary Stuart and they agreed they will try to involve the legislature early in that process. During the last legislative session, two major issues ran into big problems because legislators said we were being presented with a fait accompli and we're not going to accept that. One was trust land legislation which did not go through, the other was the Maricopa County transportation package which eventually did. The thinking is, the regents study is going to last for months, let's get the legislators involved. In fact the sessions have started with briefings and 101s.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
The governor is waiting in on aims as well. Any thoughts on that?

>> Paul Davenport:
She came out and voiced at least partial support for Superintendent Horne's call for money to provide for tutoring for the current juniors who will face the high stake AIMS graduation test.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Also some good news for people wondering where we are in the overall sort of homeland security kinds of issues. The state getting some high marks for sort of the structure that we have and the way that the process is moving forward.

>> Chip Scutari:
Actually I think the marks, the report card, was so-so and what the governor told us at her weekly press briefing, even though she hasn't combed through the study, there's some major inaccuracies, and if they fix those inaccuracies, would score pretty high in these key areas.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Inaccuracies in the report?

>> Chip Scutari:
Yes. So she said if we could correct what she called inaccuracies, we will be doing pretty well at preparing ourself for bioterrorism. When she came into office, she made homeland security a big deal. So she -- she has a homeland security director. So she has been pretty up to speed on all this stuff and so I think she's going to try to get these inaccuracies fixed.

>> Paul Davenport:
I think it's fair to say she bristled at that report and didn't like that implied criticism one bit about it.

>> Chip Scutari:
True to her nature, she send --

>> Christina Leonard:
Is this the first time there's been a full scale report like this?

>> Chip Scutari:
I think so.

>> Paul Davenport:
I don't remember -- It appeared to be a comprehensive survey of all the 50 states and judging them on -- these 10 criteria. So I hadn't seen anything like that before.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
We will see where all of this goes. Chip Scutari, thanks very much for being here. Paul, appreciate your insights. Christina, was it okay?

>> Christina Leonard:
It was great. Thanks for having me.

>> Cary Pfeffer:
You did very well. We appreciate you being here. If you would like to see a transcript of tonight's program, please visit our website at www.azpbs.org. When you get there, click on the word "Horizon" and that will lead you to transcripts, links and information on upcoming shows.

>> Larry Lemmons:
Some of the most controversial and provocative issues of the year are illustrated by Arizona's own editorial cartoonist, "Arizona Republic" cartoon Steve Benson add Brian Farington and East Valley cartoonist Mike Ritter share their views and their artwork Monday night at 7:00 on "Horizon".

>> Cary Pfeffer:
Three medical breakthroughs, including an artificial heart, Wednesday, a judge in Tucson as we mentioned will be taking up a request for an injunction on Proposition 200. Find out what he decides. Thursday a "Horizon" special, Arizona's capitol women, a show taped at the Wrigley mansion where Arizona's three female governors gathered in an historic event. We thank you very much for watching. Michael Grant will be back in this chair next week. I'm Cary Pfeffer hoping you have a great weekend and a great holiday season.

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