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Transcripts

August 6, 2004

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
· The Journalist Roundtable
In-Studio Guests:
· Bart Graves, KFYI radio;
· Mark Flatten, "East Valley Tribune;"
· Howard Fischer, "Capitol Media Services."

>> Michael Grant:
It's Friday, August 6, 2004. In the headlines this week, Maricopa County Supervisors approved spending over $2 million to fight West Nile Virus. Senator John Kerry brings his presidential campaign to Arizona this weekend, while President Bush plans to visit the Valley next week. And opponents of a plan to build an ASU research facility on the site of the old Los Arcos property in Scottsdale have failed in their attempt to put the issue on the ballot.

>>> Good evening. I'm Michael Grant, and this is the Journalist's Roundtable. Joining me to discuss these and other stories are Bart Graves of KFYI radio, Mark Flatten of the "East Valley Tribune," and Howie Fischer of "Capitol Media Services."

>>> Following a three-hour meeting Thursday, Maricopa County Supervisors approved spending $2.1 million to step up the fight against West Nile Virus. Bart, I know you were electrified throughout that three-hour meeting. What did they decide to do?

>> Bart Graves:
Every question they possibly had was answered. Every question was asked and all seven people attending that had their say in what they thought the county should do. The $2.1 million is not for aerial spraying. They kept saying this is not about aerial spraying, although everybody kept coming up and talking about it. What they want to do is hire more people to ground spread this pesticide. They want to buy more trucks to do that. They want to buy 200 mosquito traps to find out how many mosquitoes are infected with this and where they are infected with it. They targeted the primary area of the valley is the southeast valley. Most of the cases of the 264 in Maricopa County, three people have died and they want to see at this point whether they should go to that next step of aerial spraying and Mary Rose Wilcox has already said she would vote for that if it came to that.

>> Michael Grant:
Why did they not decide to follow the CDC recommendation at this point? They've got -- and it's a debatable number, they figure they have a million plus acres to cover. You could do that more quickly with aerial spraying, and under either scenario you are putting pesticide in the air, so why did they elect not to go the aerial spraying?

>> Bart Graves:
I think they are wary of doing that now with the explosive population they have, in a heavy urban area. Florida has been doing it for a while, but these are areas that are fairly rural and spread out and that was the main thing. They probably will go to that step if it continues to be pervasive but not now.

>> Howard Fischer:
Here's the fact. You nailed it here. If the same pesticide being airborne in urban areas whether it's coming out of the truck where the spray only goes so far, or it's coming off the plane -- and this isn't the kind of pesticide that you can put it there and it'll stay there and keep the area free. The pesticide has to physically touch the mosquitoes to kill it, otherwise if the mosquito isn't touched by that drop met it keeps going on. It is no different. This is a public perception problem. The idea of planes at 200, 300 feet spraying I think scarce people more than the idea of having it from the truck. I don't know why. It's the same thing.

>> Mark Flatten:
I tried to pin the Governor down on this last night, how much is the acceptable loss? If it's the aerial spraying is more effective, what are they going to do it? When four more people die? How are they going to decide when they need to step this up?

>> Bart Graves:
The supervisors who hold the purse strings for the county who has the primary authority here more so than the state, they were told we're not at that point where it's -- we don't think it's that much of a crisis yet to go to something as drastic as aerial spraying.

>> Howard Fischer:
Wait a second is this like the Governor said this isn't the crisis about the gas shortage? It's only a problem. If three people died I think it's a crisis.

>> Mark Flatten:
Politics dictate public health.

>> Bart Graves:
Some of those people are up for reelection.

>> Mark Flatten:
Some of them are up for reelection.

>> Michael Grant:
I guess what I still don't understand, and Howie, you touched on the point, is either way, you are throwing pesticide in the air. Now, I know there are the sensitivities with low-flying aircraft and those kinds of things, but it seems to me that whatever concerns you have in the public, you should have those concerns under either method.

>> Bart Graves:
Oh, yeah. Fulton Brock, who was the lone descending vote, he voted no, because he doesn't like the pesticide they are using. He says there is nothing in there guaranteeing despite all of the experts that they heard, he said I'm not convinced that this is going to be healthy to the humans. It already says it kills fish and some wildlife, known to do that in streams and rivers, so he said I'm not about to support that.

>> Michael Grant:
On the other hand, his recommendation was a stepped up public relations campaign to make sure the public is informed on what it can do, but there has been a fairly intensive information drive for the past two to three months to make sure you check your backyard for standing water and a variety of other things that you can do to worry about yourself.

>> Bart Graves:
Yeah, listening to him, I think what he said made sense. He's telling us that there are a lot of people that didn't don't taking seriously. They are not covering up, not using pesticide, not reporting standing water. The problem is, there is like 5,000 unoccupied pools, I mean, abandoned pools in the valley where there is standing water and that's causing a lot of this problem and why aren't people reporting it more, so there needs to be more public education. I think it's coming down to almost -- I hate to say it -- but body count. We have three people dead. Maybe that's not a significant harbinger.

>> Howard Fischer:
We are going to lose more. Colorado, which -- this comes in four year cycles. Colorado which had its second year last year, they lost 60 people. We'll have more deaths here.

>> Michael Grant:
This afternoon -- I want to do this before we break to presidential clicks. Jerry Colangelo forced out as CEO of the diamondbacks.

>> Howard Fischer:
He says he wasn't forced. He says look at my rear, do you see a boot print on it? He said well, there was a difference of opinion. You remember that Jerry has gotten rid of his majority interest in the Diamondbacks, same as he did with the Suns several months ago. The difference is that the new owners who now out vote him didn't particularly like the way he was running the place. You essentially had a high payroll and a losing record. Well, something is not good there. And that's the same way that managers have been forced out and coaches have been forced out, well, now the managing partner had to go.

>> Michael Grant:
The training deadline passed last weekend, but apparently not. Who is going to replace him?

>> Howard Fischer:
A guy named Jeff Morrett who has a background as a sports agent.

>> Michael Grant:
Very powerful sports agent as I understand.

>> Howard Fishcer: He clearly understands the finances involved. He was the one going to team owners like Jerry and saying you do want to pay my guy $70 million over five years. And that may be part of the problem.

>> Michael Grant:
But, I think it's an overstatement to say that's an end of an era, Bart?

>> Bart Graves:
I think -- when I think of the clout that Jerry Colangelo had, let's go back to Skip Rimsza's administration. There were many people on the council that he could not make a decision unless he talked to Jerry Colangelo. And Colangelo was instrumental in the redevelopment of downtown Phoenix prescript Rimsza going back to the '08s. He had a big interest and a big control of what city hall did.

>> Michael Grant:
Two large edifices in downtown Phoenix are primarily attributable to Jerry Colangelo.

>> Michael Grant:
Well, two large edifices and one medium sized.

>>> Speaking of an edifice, the Whitehouse will be passing through our state in the next few days. Senator John Kerry starting on Sunday, and President Bush starts next Wednesday. Let's start with the Kerry visit. You take a us about to Flagstaff -- you drive to Flagstaff and catch a us about to gallop New Mexico to get on the train.

>>Mark Flatten:
They told us it wouldn't work to have us get on the train in Flagstaff, we have to us about you to Gallup. I don't know why there might be problems with this trip Kerry is making a swing through Arizona, I think he's hitting 21 states. He launched after the convention. It's a way for him to get his name in the paper and on TV, which is particularly important in august when Kerry accepted the Democratic nomination in Boston, his ability to spend privately raised funds, he's now on public financing. George Bush has until he accepts the Republican nomination in New York to continue spending this privately raised money. He's got about $60-$64 million in the bank. That gives him a huge spending advantage. Kerry has gone dark in terms of advertising for the month of advertising. Bush is continuing to spend money on advertising. So Kerry will find a gimmick to sort of drum up recognition, saying I'm still out here. He is rolling through Arizona which I guess is interesting. Large Lee to shore -- largely to shore up his base. These kind of events, the Kerry event, the Kerry rally or Bush rally, you are not really reaching out to undecided voters with these. What you are doing is securing your base. You are press pressing the flesh, telling your people, okay, you are already in my camp, that's not good enough, you need to turn out on election day.

>> Howard Fischer:
The problem is, if you want to reach the vast majority of voters in Arizona in a big venue, you don't do it in Flagstaff at 9:30 on a Sunday night which is what's going to happen. Or in Kingman the following night at a train station.

>> Michael Grant:
Where you do it, obviously, is Gallup New Mexico. That's the gateway to Arizona.

>> Mark Flatten:
I understand he is going to slow down in Winslow. Not stop, but slow down.

>> Howard Fischer:
Well, He obviously, as mark points out, is trying to generate news. We've got two different major announcements. One about an energy policy and the other having to do with repealing the ban on stem cell research. He has got to keep generating free media. What he drops out when he comes through here, I don't know. The funny thing is, he is missing an interesting opportunity because he is going to the Grand Canyon. Beautiful backdrop. It's going to be a photo op. No statement about the environment, nothing about preserving the blue sky or clean vehicles. Just going to the Grand Canyon to get his picture taken.

>> Michael Grant:
Both you and Bart were at the Democratic National Convention last week. I think those of you are down for the Republican national convention later in the month. No bounce for Kerry, first time since 1972. Why not?

>>Mark Flatten:
I don't think there is much of a bounce to be had. This election has come down so much to not even -- I support Bush or I support Kerry. It's I support Bush or I hate Bush and Kerry happens to be the mechanism for that. There are not a lot of undecided voters. The window of maybe 10-12% of undecided voters. If they don't know what they think about George Bush by now, they are not going to know on election day. The pool of people who can still be swayed one way or another is probably very small. You are not going to see a bounce out of the Republican --

>> Michael Grant:
I was going to ask you, do we extrapolate the same effect coming out of the Republican --

>>Mark Flatten:
I think you do. I don't think Bush will get much of a bounce. They both have their people. That's why turnout is so important for both of these guys. They have each got about half of the electorate that's going to vote. The other 10% probably don't even vote. So they've each got their people. What matters is getting your people to actually cast a ballot at this point.

>> Michael Grant:
Getting back to maybe your -- now, the president shows up in the valley next Wednesday?

>> Bart Graves:
Days after Kerry leaves the state.

>> Michael Grant:
Did we get details on what he's doing?

>> Bart Graves:
Late today we found he'll probably be using the aging veterans coliseum in central Phoenix for his event, and we believe it's going to be the new format he's used on the campaign trail where he is kind of theatering around, trying to get the audience around him and talks about the high points of his administration, his programs that are working, and the war effort and things of that sort. And then he takes questions from the audience from average folks.

>> Howard Fischer:
I've seen some of these. I saw the last average questions when he was up at the senior citizens center. Essentially don't expect anything -- this president is not looking for real questions. He refused requests by local media. He won't talk to the "New York Times." He doesn't want to be questioned. He's quite happy with the docile white house press CORPS.

>>Mark Flatten:
I think it goes beyond that. Both Bush and Kerry have scripted campaigns. That's probably why you won't see a lot of movement in the polls. They've got talking points and scripts. If you or I were to ask either of these guys what color is the sky, we would here the talking points on Iraq policy. It doesn't matter what the question is. There is no surprises left. People know what they are going to say. They know where they are coming from. That might be the price you pay for having such a scripted convention, such a scripted campaign. You know, you are not going to sway too many people by repeating the same lines you've repeated.

>> Howard Fischer:
Al Sharpton made a great speech. I don't know if he got any votes.

>> Michael Grant:
Senator John McCain upset about some anti-Kerry war-related ads being run?

>> Mark Flatten:
There is a group called swiftboat veterans, who are people who served in Vietnam who served on swift boats like John Kerry did, and they are saying, you know this, man is a fraud. The stuff he says that he did, he didn't do. If purple hearts were for superficial, you know, self--inflicted wounds, and they bought some ads in some fairly small markets, like $150,000 ad buy. There is a big book coming out next week from some of these same veterans that make the same point. McCain came out and said, it's dishonest and dishonorable to make these allegations against Senator Kerry.

>> Howard Fischer:
And what's interesting McCain is saying look, I wasn't there, but he said, first of all, we should be putting this sort of a tack behind us. McCain went through this in South Carolina four years ago. The other interesting piece about this is that the guy who put him in for the silver star was debating one of these -- he said this was me telling the story, the guy he rescued. The question is, who do you believe, who's got the political --

>> Michael Grant:
Boston globe reported that one of the stories had been retracted, but the --

>> Mark Flatten:
The supposed retractor said no, I was misquoted, that's not what happened. This is a very volatile issue for both Kerry and Bush. More so for Kerry, obviously. Whether these guys are right or wrong, they certainly have a right to question it because they were there, more of a right than probably those of us who weren't there. But beyond that, it doesn't matter if people say yeah, I believe them or no, I don't believe them. Kerry has pinned so much of his presidential race on his four months in Vietnam, that if these guys plant a seed of doubt on that record, the whole linchpin of his campaign will be Vietnam service and I think it's a volatile issue for Kerry.

>> Michael Grant:
Secretary of State Jan Brewer determined that there are enough signatures to place the Clean Elections measure on the November ballot if the courts will allow it. Howie, that's the critical question. Where is the Supreme Court on the challenge to Clean Elections?

>> Howard Fischer:
You remember we talked about on this show that a state trial judge, Margaret downy concluded that the measure actually con contains two separate subjects. Number one, we're not going to allow public funds to fund candidate campaigns. Number two, we're going to take all of thinks automatic money that goes to the citizens Clean Elections Commission, the surcharge on the taxes, the tax credits and other donation, and we're going to take that away also. The problem that judge Downey said is that the commission does more than just give away money to candidates. They also fund candidate debates. They fund pamphlets. They do enforcement of election laws and there are people who might want to get rid of public finance of campaign but not do away with the rest of it. The Supreme Court has been asked to review that. They are still getting briefed. In fact, just this afternoon, several of the Corporation Commissioners who are running as publicly financed, put in their own aMcCuss brief to say there are two separate subjects here and therefore keep it off the ballot. What the Supreme Court will do, I don't know. It's probably not going to be this coming week.

>> Michael Grant:
I was going to say, on timing, any indication on when --

>> Howard Fischer:
There isn't that much of a push, because this is for the general election. We have elections where they printed brochures which show a measure on the ballot and it turns out you get to the polls and you have to disregard it.

>>Mark Flatten:
As an aside, I don't know if this is relevant or not, but when you listen to the Democratic presidential race, you hear we're going to make every vote count this time. Yet you've got the Democrats or even the Democrats or their groups knocking Ralph Nader off the ballot. They are playing a role in trying to -- if the pan initiative passes they are going to challenge that in court. I see a dichotomy between we make every vote count unless we can throw it out in court.

>> Michael Grant:
Picky, picky, picky, mark.

>> Bart Graves:
Let's go to the polls for this issue. They like the looks of it, they are going to vote to bring it back again.

>> Howard Fishcer:
But that's a voting issue. That's the problem with any of these things. You've got a situation, you say, should taxpayer money be used to fund campaigns? Of course, you say no. If you rephrase the question the way the folks who support it, you say, should politicians be able to avoid taking money for special interests through surcharges on criminal fines, people are going to say yes. That's what's going to happen between now and November.

>> Michael Grant:
Speaking of Clean Elections, Wes Marsh shows up for a Clean Elections debate and gets an unexpected surprise.

>> Mark Flatten:
He got served with papers telling him he is behind on child support.
I'm surprised they haven't made a soap opera out of this guy. Here's a guy who has a bizarre chain of events that we don't have enough hours to go into. So he kind of disappears from the face of the earth but also decides to run for the legislature. It's like you can't have it both ways, Wes. Go into hiding or not.

>> Howard Fischer:
In a lot of ways, this is the pound of flesh that his ex-wife is getting. When he was still in the legislature she filed papers suggesting that Wes who was at the reserves should not -- well not only residency, but she said he should not be allowed to carry a gun because he is bipolar and wrote to his commanding officer and that became part of the public record.

>> Michael Grant:
I had forgotten about that.

>> Mark Flatten:
The lesson in all of this, if you are in the midst of a four-year very ugly divorce don't run for the legislature.

>> Bart Graves:
Or stay private. Don't be a public person.

>> Michael Grant:
Scottsdale voters don't rally around the ASU research.

>> Mark Flatten:
There is a lot of challenges that a group supporting this ASU plan have made known that in terms of how they are gathering signatures. There are a lot of technical issues about, you know, did you have the city code stapled to the back of the petitions, and the petition circulator said he was a volunteer when he was paid. A lot of very technical issues, but probably enough to keep it from going on the ballot. Again, we're getting into a situation where we've gotten sort of bogged down in the minutia of the legality that these are not -- that things are not making it to the ballot.

>> Michael Grant:
John McCain says gosh, I don't think I'm going to be endorsing Joe Arpaio for Maricopa County sheriff.

>> Bart Graves:
This is what you call payback in politics. Going back to 2000, when John McCain was in the struggle for the Republican nomination against George W. Bush, sheriff Joe Arpaio made it clear that he was backing George W. Bush and not John McCain, and McCain has a long memory. That didn't show up in the Dan sab bin press release, he says he likes commander SABEN's ideas, but that's what it's about.

>>Mark Flatten:
The bottom line here isn't I'm endorsing Dan, the bottom line is I'm going to get my pound of flesh from Joe Arpaio.

>> Michael Grant:
The 9th ruling circuit ruling against Joe Arpaio against the camera issue?

>>Howard Fischer:
He put in web cams in the booking area and put it on the worldwide web and said people should see what's going on here. What the 9th Circuit said was, look, we think you are interfering with individual privacy rights and punishing people who have only been arrested, they haven't been convicted of anything. This is a preliminary injunction, but the court said when they upheld the injunction, they said the chances of Joe going ahead on full trial and winning on trial is very slim.

>> Michael Grant:
All right, panelists, we're out of time. If you'd like to see a transcript of tonight's program, please visit our web site at www.kaet.asu.edu, click on the word "Horizon." That's going to lead you to transcripts, links, information on upcoming shows. Next week "Horizon" is off for special programming, but join us again next Friday for another edition of the Journalists' Roundtable. Thank you very much for being here this Friday. Have a great weekend! I'm Michael Grant. Good night. .

 

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