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August 26, 2004

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
· AIMS test;
· Maricopa County Sheriff race;
· Maricopa County Attorney race
In-Studio Guests:
· Tom Horne, Superintendent of Public Instruction;
· Dan Saban, candidate for Maricopa County Sheriff;
· Ray Stern, Tribune newspapers

>> Michael Grant:
Tonight on "Horizon," a majority of high school students will not graduate next school year unless something is done about the huge number of students failing the AIMS test.

>>> Michael Grant:
Two Republicans running for Maricopa County sheriff. You'll hear from one of the candidates tonight.

>>> Michael Grant:
And there are eight candidates running for Maricopa County attorney. We'll get an analysis of those races from a reporter. Good evening, I'm Michael Grant. The numbers are frightening: 61% of sophomores last spring failed the math portion of the AIMS test. 41% failed reading, 38% did not pass the writing exam. Those students who are now juniors will need to pass the AIMS test to graduate in 2006. Here now to tell us more about what's happening, what can be done about the low AIMS test scores is Tom Horne. He, of course, is the Superintendent of Public Instruction. Tom, is there any good news here?

>> Tom Horne:
It's not as depressing as all that, Mike. I'm predicting that by 2006 when the students need to graduate at least 90% of them will be proficient in reading, writing and math, will demonstrate it on their tests and will be able to graduate.

>> Michael Grant:
Why? We've been banging our head against this wall for, what, five to six years now and we haven't made substantial improvements.

>> Tom Horne:
This is the time now that the students realize it's serious. Remember, it's a high school test. It's been taken now by the sophomores. They get two more years of coursework their junior and senior years, they get four more chances to pass the test and we're doing a lot in the way of state intervention to help them on the AIMS test. The legislature has appropriated a million-and-a-half a year. It's accumulated by 4.5 million dollars of tutoring funds. We're going to try to get that changed somewhat in the legislature so we can use it at all schools and right now it's limit to under-performing schools. We're spending $550,000 on AIMS intervention that the state appropriated. We have applied for a federal flex plan which provides that we can use funds from Titles I through V, mix the funds up, but then every high school has to have an AIMS intervention program for those students who have not passed one of tests. We're going to have a massive effort to reach the students who failed one of the tests, work with them on that subject. The students are taking everything more seriously now. The teachers report to me. The students are taking everything more seriously than their older brother and sisters did, and their parents are taking everything more seriously.

>> Michael Grant:
That was always the feeling, you couldn't look at past results because everybody knew it was a joke and you really didn't have to pass. But these sophomores knew last spring that they're in the bull's eye and you still get these kinds of results.

>> Tom Horne:
Well, I think they've gotten an interesting message from the results and I think the state has gotten the message also. We have to be serious about intervention. But do remember this is their first chance and it's while they're sophomores. They have four more chances, two years of coursework, two years of intervention. They did this already in Massachusetts and Florida. They went through all these kinds of painful times and they had five chance as we did, and in both states 90%of the students ended up passing. Interestingly in Massachusetts they looked at the 10% who failed, and almost all of them had bad attendance records. One of my messages to parents is if you send the students to school, the thing about the AIMS tests it tests the standards. That which the teachers are teaching. If the students are there, they should learn what any need to pass but if you don't send them to school we can't teach them.

>> Michael Grant:
What is almost more disturbing about these results than the math results is the 40% or so who failed reading and writing at the sophomore level in high school. That strikes me as more depressing than whether or not we're doing well in algebra.

>> Tom Horne:
One of the thing we will be getting to the students and their teachers and their parents for the first time next year is we'll give them a breakdown by concept. Where did the student fall down? Is it in comprehension or vocabulary? Is it comprehending literature or comprehending persuasives, informational writings? We're going to be giving them details. Is it voice, content, organization? People will be able to hone in on what the student needs to learn to pass the test. And you're gonna see a lot of improvement.

>> Michael Grant:
When you say they've got four more chances to do this, is it literally in the junior and senior year administered fall and spring?

>> Tom Horne:
Fall and spring junior year, fall and spring senior year.

>> Michael Grant:
You can obviously -- let's say that you passed reading and writing but failed math.

>> Tom Horne:
You just take the math test. A number of schools are requiring you in that situation to take two math courses. Different schools will do different things. There will be special classes, tutorials, summer programs. One of the -- other thing that's changing is that the tests were written until I took office by an outside testing company. Since I have taken office the questions have been written by Arizona teachers to be sure they're a good match to the standards they're teaching. If you have a high stake tests, you want to make sure the student is asked anything he wasn't taught. That will start to show next spring, when we have questions that I think are a better match to the standard so we're sure the students are going to be asked questions about things that they actually have been taught.

>> Michael Grant:
Tom, let me ask you to assume you're wrong, we're not at a 90% passing rate in 2006. I know this will be a difficult hypo for you but stay with me. Let's say we cut the math failure rate in half and it's 30%. Politically, the state can't tolerate that?

>> Tom Horne:
You are right, the state cannot tolerate it politically and I'm unwilling to accept it as an assumption. We're going to make it happen. We're going to make it happen with what we're doing with the students, we're going to make it happen that the questions are reasonable, that they reflect the standards they're taught. We're going to have sufficient intervention. I don't think we're going to do worse than Massachusetts and Florida did. Our Gene pool is just as good as theirs.

>> Michael Grant:
There is a suspicion when people hear things like we're going to make the questions match the material that what you're really talking about is dumbing down the test.

>> Tom Horne:
No, that's something I would not do. As you know, Mike, I have always stood for high standards, both, as a member of the school board and as a legislator. We're not going to dumb down the test. We need to make sure the questions are a good match to the standards, that we are, in fact, asking questions about material that the students have been taught in class, and I think we're going to do a much better job of that now because we have Arizona teachers writing those questions rather than from an outside testing company.

>> Michael Grant:
Any set of circumstances where you can imagine where you would go to the State Board of Education and say we need to postpone the graduation requirement for 2006?

>> Tom Horne:
The answer to your question is no. It was set for 2000, then2002, and postponed to 2006. If it were postponed again we would lose all credibility. The important thing that's happening now is students believe we're serious and the panic that is affecting the students has a positive aspect to it. They're going to study hard to acquire those skills that they need to pass the test. When they acquires the skills to pass the test, the important thing is they're getting skills to be successful in life. Their becoming proficient in reading, writing and math. When people talk about teaching to the test, in the reading test, for example, we ask them to read a passage and understand it well enough to answer questions about it. The only way to teach to that is have the kids do a lot of reading and the schools that have adjusted well have the kids do a lot more reading, writing, math. The kids are complaining but it's music tyke my ears and we have to to be sure this happens. If it were postponed again, we would lose all credibility nobody would take us seriously. We would lose ability to make the students and schools accountable in order to have high standards. In the job market now students have to be proficient in reading, writing and math.

>> Michael Grant:
State Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Horne, thanks for the information. We'll continue to monitor.

>> Tom Horne:
Thank you, Mike.

>> Michael Grant:
There are two Republican candidates running for Maricopa Countysheriff. We will talk to one of them as the incumbent sheriff Joe Arpaio declined to participate in a debate with his challenger. First, here's a brief look.

>> Dan Saban started his law enforcement career nearly three decades ago as a Maricopa County sheriff's office reserve deputy. He retired this year as a police commander for the Mesa police department where he worked since 1979.He has held numerous positions during his career including a five-year stint as a S.W.A.T. team member. Saban has completed 3500hours of police training, he holds a bachelor's degree injustice studies and a masters in human relation. The 48-year-old Saban has a blended family of five daughters, two granddaughters and one grandson. He is known as America's toughest sheriff. When Joe Arpaio became the new sheriff in town he has been riding herd or over the jail department sheriff's department 57D jails. Arpaio worked under cover in drug operations in the United States, Mexico, turkey, central and South America and the Middle East. He ended his career with the U.S. drug enforcement administration as head of the agency for Arizona. As sheriff in 1993, he started tent city jail to help ease jail overcrowding. He also started chain gangs and has formed numerous volunteer sheriff's posses, Arpaio is 72 years old, is married, has two children and three grandchildren.

>> Michael Grant:
Both Republican sheriff candidates were invited to be on the program tonight. Sheriff Joe Arpaio declined, in fact he has yet to agree to a debate with his challenge Dan Saban, however sheriff Arpaio's staff sent this message to read. Joining me now is Dan Saban.

>> Dan Saban:
Hi, Mike.

>> Michael Grant:
Dan --

>> Dan Saban:
Can I make a comment on that first?

>> Michael Grant:
I was going to ask you to respond to that.

>> Dan Saban:
I've said all along in this campaign, I have been on campaign trail for 15months, that this campaign is about character. One of us has it and one of us is one. That's what's neat. The voters will be able to choose.

>> Michael Grant:
He says you're wrong. Do you have any idea specifically about what you're wrong about?

>> Dan Saban:
I don't have a clue. I mean, he is claiming I'm wrong but he won't come out and face me with the voters and public. He doesn't want to be held accountable. That's very frustrating as a candidate that he won't come out and at least on the table the facts so the public can make an informed decision.

>> Michael Grant:
I guess I didn't realize you started your career with the Maricopa County sheriff's office?

>> Dan Saban:
Yes.

>> Michael Grant:
How long ago was that and in what function.?

>> Dan Saban:
1975 I became a a reserve deputy, volunteered my time. I subsequently became a deputy sheriff and then for three years and switched to the City of mace nah 1979.

>> Michael Grant:
Are those qualifications one of the main reasons that people should vote for you in about10 days or so?

>> Dan Saban:
Absolutely. This position, this is a law enforcement position, even though it's an elected position, and you certainly need to have the credentials and experience to be a law enforcement professional in the executive level so you can best and be most efficient with there sources.

>> Michael Grant:
Let me state it the other way, why should they oust an obviously popular incumbent sheriff.

>> Dan Saban:
One of the things that frustrates me why I'm even in this race is because as a professional I've had to sit band and see firsthand the inefficiency of this organization under Joe's direction and that comes from the fact his focus is particularly focused on politics and he uses his position to self-promote himself and apply our tax dollars to programs that get him in the public's eye to where he can have political clout and that's not what this job is about. This job is about providing quality law enforcement within this county.

>> Michael Grant:
Give me an example how he emphasizes the -- well, I guess the image over the substance is essentially what you're saying.

>> Dan Saban:
Well -- let's use the pink underwear. Pink underwear is a great example. Joe misleads the public and everything Joe does misleads the public, or is inaccurate. When Joe came out the pink underwear, the first thing he said was I'm going to save tax dollars because inmates are stealing our underwear and we're going to die them pink and hang on to these. What you have to understand in the and the voters have to understand when you're booked into jail, everything you own is taken away from you at put on the shelf. You're then dressed in inmate clothing and you are processed. When you are released, everything is taken off your body and you are given back your box of clothes. If there were thefts of underwear, noose control of that? Joe was. There really never was at heft of underwear. It was merely a chance to promote these pink under wear and his name is on them. How much did it cost us to put his name on all the pink underwear. Now they're subsequently being sold. That's not what this position is about.

>> Michael Grant:
Here's what I think a lot of people in Maricopa County respond, Dan, and then you react to this. Sheriff Joe Arpaio has instituted things like tent city, baloney sandwiches, a variety of other things, he makes it an uncomfortable place to be, that's the way it should be, I like the way he operates.

>> Dan Saban:
Absolutely. There are some things in the aspect of this organization, I agree with. I don't think prisoners should be coddled, given cigarettes, tea cable TV or pornography. The tent city in the beginning was a great resource overflow. Unfortunately it's now become the major location of our lawsuits and the injuries that are occurred in there. What's happened is tent city has not been managed properly. So I was quoted in the paper as I'm going to remove tent city. I'll definitely tear it down and rebuild it. The prisoners in there need to be isolated so you don't have rape and assaults occurring. We had a detention officer assaulted two days ago in that tent. It's a very unsafe environment and the majority of the lawsuits come from that. You won't see Joe admit that. All the public sees is this monitor that our army troops are in tents and by golly these inmates are. But that's not an accurate representation of what's going on in there.

>> Michael Grant:
The recent prostitution sting was it a good use of county resources --

>> Dan Saban:
Absolutely not. Here you have a sheriff that chooses to spend eight weeks rounding up prostitutes within city limits of a variety of cities. This comes at a time when the response times to call for emergency service in the county are 10 1/2 minutes on the average, and he has a jail staff that's understaffed by 300positions.So he takes resources over to do an eight-week prostitution roundup that absolutely resulted in no prosecutions, when all these other areas are paying the costs and the citizens are paying the costs. They're not being serviced properly.

>> Michael Grant:
Did he do it as a publicity stunt?

>> Dan Saban:
Heaven's sake, yes. Absolutely. Why would you invest county resources when you are that strapped and duplicate services in the city. It blew up in his face. Certainly a bad choice.

>>> Michael Grant:
You have emphasized turnover in the Sheriff's Department and also - you mentioned vacant positions.

>> Dan Saban:
Yes, they're currently about 350 employees short in the jail, in the detention area. One of his own chief deputies indicated there's a40% turnover rate with detention officers. Nobody wants to work there. We have two brand-new jails going online absolutely within two to three weeks. He is going to open one right before the primary because he will try to make a push to show the public it was financed by proposition411.There's a thousand positions to staff those two new jails and there's no one there to do it. We have two jails ready to go and no one to work in them. Why is that?

>> Michael Grant:
You have received the endorsement of a lot of law enforcement groups, Maricopa County Republican party, but you're running against what has been my experience I think one of the most popular local and even national politicians that I have ever seen. Do you stand any chance?

>> Dan Saban:
You bet we do. The latest poll, his popularity is down to 53%.That's huge. We knew he would be vulnerable during this cycle because I think across this county people are tired. They're tired of the smoke and mirrors, tired of the shell game, tired of the dog and pony shows. And I came along as a polished professional and offered them another option. I think that's why you sees o much success because people have had it. Absolutely. And which is why he won't come here tonight. He won't take that challenge.

>> Michael Grant:
You mentioned response times. The county population is exploding. How do you improve those response times?

>> Dan Saban:
Well, the first thing you need to do is take this entire operation and melt it down to the metal and provide core business needs, which would be responding to calls and providing a safe jail, serving warrants and doing those core police needs. That's how you can do, dismantle some of the programs he has. He has a threat squad of six or eight employees that just follow up on threats made to him or other candidates or -- God only knows what they do, they're in private office. There's eight employees that could be utilized out on the street taking calls for service. So when you dismantle this operation and give it back to the core needs, I think you can rebuild from there and increase some of the response times and take away the liability.

>> Michael Grant:
Dan Saban, thank you very much for joining us.

>> Michael Grant:
There are three times as many Republicans running for Maricopa County attorney as there are running for sheriff. We will talk to a Tribune reporter about the Republican and democratic candidates seeking to replace Rick Romley who is leaving the job of county attorney. First a quick look at all the candidates.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Here are the Republicans who are running. For six years Mike Bailey has been a Deputy Maricopa County Attorney. He is 39 and is married and has two young daughters. Jerry Landau worked for 24years in the Maricopa County Attorney's Office and does prosecutor training. He is 54 years old and is married and has a 9-year-oldson.Tom McCauley worked in the Maricopa County Attorney's Office from 1989 to 2002.He is currently in private practice. He is 44 years old and is engaged to be married. Andrew Pacheco has been a prosecutor for both the Maricopa County Attorney's Office and the United States Attorney's Office. He is 34 years old, is married and has a 3-year-oldson.Rick Poster worked in the Maricopa County Attorney's Office for five years and has other experience as a prosecutor. He has taught law, is 44years old and is married. Andrew Thomas has been a Maricopa County Deputy Attorney and Assistant Attorney General for Arizona. He is 37 years old, is married and has four children. There are two Democrats running for Maricopa County Attorney. Don Harris was a Deputy County Attorney and served as Maricopa County Attorney in 1976.He also served as a county judge pro team. He is 65 years old, has two children and one grandson. Jonathan Warshaw was a Mesa police officer and a Maricopa County Deputy Attorney. He is 37 years old, is married and has three young sons.

>> Michael Grant:
Here with me to talk about the candidates and the races for County Attorney in the primary election is Ray Stern. He is a reporter for the Tribune Newspaper. Ray, thanks for coming over.

>> Ray Stern:
You bet. Glad to be here.

>> Michael Grant:
There are certain street corners in this town that you can't seethe building behind them and it's mainly because of the signs for the Republican primary for County Attorney. How in the world does a Republican voter sort through this field of six?

>> Ray Stern:
That's a good question. I'm not sure how they are going to sort it through, especially when there there isn't enough money in this race to get everyone's message out to voters. I think people will just have to rely on osmosis, what they hear from other people, look at the endorsements of some of the candidates and pick the best one.

>> Michael Grant:
Who has won the endorsement battle?

>> Ray Stern:
Well, Pacheco and Thomas have probably won the endorsement battle on the Republican side. That's because Thomas has an incredible amount of support from the sort of more far right people, and he has won endorsement from the Arizona Republican assembly, Arizona right to life. He has, I think, 17 state legislators, a lot of them in the East Valley, where there's some conservative action in there. Pacheco has got McCain --or Senators McCain and Kylon his side. Another interesting thing that just happened was Richard Romley who is the current attorney - County Attorney, there was a dispute between Pacheco and Thomas over who took money from planned parenthood and in fact Mr. Pacheco had taken a campaign contribution from a former planned parenthood board member Jessica Flores and I guess after Thomas accused Pacheco of doing that, Pacheco's campaign consul opportunity sent out a masse-mail saying in fact Thomas had taken money from planned parenthood board member and planned parenthood had helped fund raise - held fund raisers for Thomas, which is pretty odd, really and planned parenthood, when I told them, we would never hold a fund-raiser for Thomas. What happened was Richard Romley suddenly came out for Thomas in that argument. He could have kept his mouth shut and said, listen, look at the debate going on between Pacheco and Thomas, this is why you should vote for my guy, Jerry Landau, but he didn't. He said Thomas will make an excellent County Attorney and people should reject Pacheco.

>> Michael Grant:
On paper is Jerry Landau the strong strongest of these six?

>> Ray Stern:
It could appear that way. He's got 24 years in the County Attorney's office and a lot of those years he spent actually trying criminals, and he also spent a lot of time on the political end of the office as well as the legislative liaison for the County Attorney's office. So he's got kind of both end of experience needed in the office from the political administrative and the prosecution end as well. But you've got a Thomas McCauley out there who has13 years of just prosecuting criminals so he is pretty qualified, too.

>> Michael Grant:
Was McCauley the one you mentioned to me who had prosecuted some really serious cases?

>> Ray Stern:
McCauley has has prosecuted serious cases but Andrew Pacheco has prosecuted some of the worst criminals in the state. He has prosecuted the Cisneros brothers crime organizations an the New Mexican mafia, the Cisneros brothers crime syndicate is supposestly responsible for up to 50 homicide, they eliminate witnesses all the time, and Pacheco is one of the people who put them behind bars.

>> Michael Grant:
Placing the endorsement battle and, I don't know who gave money to whom and that kind of thing -- to one side, have there been any large issues that have been playing in the race, any one particularly stressing one aspect of the office or one issue over another?

>> Ray Stern:
Well, on the Republican side, illegal immigration seems to be the top issue, and I'm not sure who came first or who came up first with this issue, Pacheco or Thomas but if you have seen Thomas' signs all around town, they are emphatic, stop illegal immigration, vote Andrew Thomas a even though the County Attorney doesn't have the power to stop illegal immigration. He has made that his issue. Pacheco came out with a large plan how he would deal with illegal immigrants who commit crimes. Jerry Landau came out with a plan just a couple weeks ago, sort of playing catch up about ill illegal immigration. I think that's been the number one issue even though it's not exactly something everyone will be doing once they get in there.

>> Michael Grant:
The sort of conventional wisdom is because of Andrew Thomas' strong support from the conservative wing of the party, given the girth numerically of this field, that Andrew Thomas wins 10days from now. Is that generally the analysis you have heard?

>> Ray Stern:
That's what everyone is saying. He drew 325,000 votes when he ran for Attorney General in 2002.So each if he gets a fraction of those people to vote for him again in this race, he should be able to edge out the other five.

>> Michael Grant:
Shifting to the democratic side of this equation, Don Harris has actually been County Attorney.

>> Ray Stern:
He was County Attorney. He was appointed County Attorney in 1976.He replaced Berger, and he served for five months, and then he did not seek reelection after that. But apparently it's been in the back of his mind you since then. He has been a defense attorney since then he was a United States marine corps officer, he served in Vietnam and he has all this experience but he's also kind of a hot head. He has angered some of the Democrats with his statements about Bruce Babbitt. He accuses Bruce Babbitt about lying the reasons the Don Bolles case was taken away from him back in 1976.Don Bolles was an "Arizona Republic" reporter who got blown up, and the case eventually did go to the Attorney General's office and was taken away from Don Harris.

>> Michael Grant:
Those two had a pretty spirit debate recently if I recall correctly.

>> Ray Stern:
They did and Harris basically accuses warshaw of being inexperienced and not up to the task and warsha won the other hand calls Harris someone who is going to be a wildcard.

>> Michael Grant:
Ray Stern, thank you very much for the information.

>> Ray Stern:
You bet.

>> Michael Grant:
You can visit the website at www.kaet.asu.edu. Once you get to the homepage, click on the word "Horizon" on the left side of the page. That will take you to "Horizon" links, transcripts and information about upcoming shows.

>>> Michael Grant:
The KAET/ASU Poll shows that Bush has a lead over Kerry in Arizona and that the Protect Arizona Now initiative still has strong support. Governor Napolitano meets with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld as he makes a visit to the Valley. The AIMS test scores are frighteningly bad. All topics for the Journalists Round table Friday at 7:00 on "Horizon."

>> Michael Grant:
That stuff and probably much more tomorrow. Thanks for being here today. I'm Michael Grant. Have a great one. Good night.

 

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