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August 13, 2004

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
The Journalists Roundtable
In-Studio Guests:
Howard Fischer, Capitol Media Services;
Barrett Marson, "Arizona Daily Star;"
Paul Giblin, Scottsdale Tribune.

>>Michael Grant:
It's Friday the 13th, 2004. In the head lines this week President Bush in the Valley Wednesday talking to thousands of supporters at veterans memorial coliseum. Meanwhile, senator John Kerry took his "Believe in America" tour to Northern Arizona this week. And Governor Napolitano wants some answer from the tourism and sports authority over a funding deal to the Cardinals new stadium. Good evening, I'm Michael Grant. This is the Journalists Roundtable. Joining me to talk about these at other stories are Howie Fischer of Capitol Media Services, Barrett Marson of the "Arizona Daily Star," Paul Giblin of the Scottsdale Tribune. Arizona in the national spotlight this week as both President Bush and Senator Kerry visited the state looking for votes. Senator Kerry spent a couple days in Northern Arizona while President Bush spent Wednesday night in Phoenix following a rally with supporters. Howie, you covered both trips. Let's start with President Bush. What happened at Veteran's Memorial Coliseum?

>> Howard Fischer:
This was actually one of the president's better speeches I've ever seen. This was a 44-minute speech. No tele-prompter. Very animated. Very fired up speech. The central theme of which had to do with the war on terror and also the war on Iraq. He said, look, John Kerry does not really understand what's going on there, that if America is to be protected, we need somebody who doesn't have, I think he used the term, a dangerous misunderstanding of the enemy, and he said that what people need to understand that they must reelect him so we don't show any weakness. He said, if we weakness our enemies will be out to get us. He also said, if we don't fight them over there, we'll be fighting them in the streets of Arizona.

>> Michael Grant:
It's interesting the point that you make, because this is what, his eighth or ninth visit in three-and-a-half years, while in the White House, so we've had an opportunity many times to see him in this more casual stump kind of contact, and it really is a marked contrast to the then more formal speeches that you will see such as State of the Union. He's much more comfortable in that venue.

>> Howard Fischer:
He does a much more relaxed kind of speech, particularly if he's been over -- some of the stuff is not new. For example, he has had this theme where he says, and because of this America is safer, and he says it over and over as if saying it over and over make it true. But it becomes part of the schtick. It also becomes a marked contrast to Kerry, while he is loosening up a about it, is still considered very wooden and stilted. Kerry always feels the need to over-explain things and bush is nice simple concepts, me good, Kerry bad.

>> Barrett Marson:
I think both of them showed that they are truly in campaign mode. I think bush was more relaxed and Kerry I -- I saw Kerry at the DLC event and the La Raza event and he was very wooden. He made Al Gore look animated. This time he was great on the stump. I think he really fired up the crowd, much like President Bush did at Veteran's Memorial Coliseum. So I think the two of them are really getting into the campaign mode. They're both feeling comfortable throughout. Kerry had no text for a speech. He's given this on the fly. It's about the same speech --

>> Michael Grant:
But incidentally, is the president stalking John Kerry? He keeps showing up in all the same --

>> Barrett Marson:
It seems that. At one point -- in Iowa they were in the same town together, the same exact day, now the president literally is following Kerry's footsteps, John Kerry was in Arizona Sunday and Monday, the president was here Wednesday. Kerry was -- went to Vegas, Bush went to Vegas. Kerry went to L.A., Bush went to L.A. Kerry goes to Oregon, Bush goes to Oregon. So -- they are -- except for California, they're all battleground states.

>> Michael Grant:
Just out of curiosity - are there any kind of frequent flyer specials on that? just --

>> Howard Fischer:
Well, the train. The other interesting thing that also came up on both of them is, while the war becomes a big issue, I think most of them realize that for a lot of Americans, the issue is the economy, and now we're down to a question of, is the glass half empty or half full. Bush came to town, he pointed out appear year ago Arizona's jobless rate was 5.8%. Now it's 4.7%.

>> Barrett Marson:
What he didn't point out is when he took office it was about 3.9%.

>> Howard Fischer:
That's the key. Now, of course, the response of Bush is, well, I inherited the recession, it was Bill Clinton's fault, and, B, 9/11, which seems to be a perennial feature.

>> Paul Giblin:
But both of the guys, they have these grand ideas, I'm the employment president, put me in office and I'm going to work on employment, but they didn't say anything about how they were going to do that.

>> Barrett Marson:
Well, President Bush says his tax cuts are working to put people back -- you know, his tax cuts have softened --

>> Paul Giblin:
That's -- what you said earlier was they were in campaign mode, which means they throw out grand ideas.

>> Howard Fischer:
That's really the point. We talked to some economists, people like Don Webbe, and Don is very apolitical. He said, look, Howie, the fact is, when it comes to the economy no president can take all the credit or all the blame. There are so many factors at work. There are so many little things that make a difference that even a single policy of a president is not going to create lower job growth or higher job growth.

>> Michael Grant:
In fact, you can strongly make the point that probably Alan Greenspan has more to do with the economy --

>> Garrett Marson:
Especially here in Arizona because one of the things truly driving this economy are home sales and home construction, new home sales, and used home sales -- resales. So that is truly -- people are moving up, selling, and people from California are selling their homes and buying homes here and then getting jobs. That is truly one of the things moving this economy.

>> Michael Grant: J
ohn McCain was enthusiastic at the coliseum in support of the president.

>> Howard Fischer:
It wasn't quite the "Al and Tipper Gore kiss" but it was close. There was a moment where we thought perhaps Senator McCain was going to get off the bus, so to speak, or the airplane, when the White House refused to condemn some ads being run by an anti-Kerry swift vote group. What happens, the White House put out a sort of non-statement statement, which is the president condemns all independent expenditures which are now the -- now under the McCain-Feingold bill therefore John McCain said, he's my man and I'm going to defend him. I mean, very clearly, George Bush needs John McCain more than John McCain needs George Bush. McCain has very high queue if you will that people like him. They don't know what he stands for necessarily but they know they like him, they talk about him as a straight talker.

>> Barrett Marson:
I have a very high IQ rating on the show, too. I think John McCain wants to show that he is a good Republican and he won't take the democratic vice-presidential slot because he has so many views that fit into the Republican party even if he disagrees sometimes with the president.

>> Michael Grant:
You travel with John Kerry on the choo-choo across Northern Arizona. Was it a stimulating experience?

>> Barrett Marson:
Well, it was good food. That was the most important thing. Unlike the president, the senator from Massachusetts gave local media not one but two interviews over two days, one a ten-minute session and another one a little longer about a 20 to 30-minute session where he threw it open and we could ask what we wanted.

>> Michael Grant:
Get any good answers?

>> Barrett Marson:
No. In fact, at one point he actually -- he started answering questions we didn't ask about the Arizona that he would create --

>> Howard Fischer:
But the fact is, he did -- if you ask certain specific questions, for example, I asked him about the resumption of underground nuclear testing in Nevada for the bunker buster bombs and he gave a clear, succinct statement, bad idea, bad public policy, interferes with nonproliferation and from a military standpoint you create one of these small nuclear devices you use in the battlefield then you've polluted the battlefield for your own troops. The national press didn't even have access to him on this. We did a good job on that.

>> Barrett Marson:
He stopped the day before in New Mexico and talked to the Navajo Nation President and he seemed -- he seems to be taking up native American ideas, so we were able to ask, why -- why focus on -- it's a very small voting block. He said, look, they're just as American as anybody else and we have treaties with them and we need to live up to our responsibilities, and he's really taking up the mantle of Native American issues. Whereas the Navajo National President complained to us he hasn't been able to meet with the president since he took office.

>> Paul Giblin:
Both you guys went to both speeches. Give me your assessment, Bush-Kerry.

>> Howard Fischer:
With Kerry there was no formal speech. Kerry made a standup when he got to Flagstaff. In terms of -- as I say, both of them have gotten better -- Kerry certainly has gotten better. Bush is very comfortable. These are partisan audiences. You touch the right notes. What's the question you're asking --

>> Paul Giblin:
The question is, who did a better job, Bush or Kerry?

>> Howard Fischer:
As a local journalist, the fact that we had access to Kerry, I'd have to say Kerry. Bush wouldn't give us the time of day. Now, Larry King, who doesn't ask any tough questions or the White House -- wait a second --

>> Michael Grant:
Wait a minute, Capitol Media Services, CNN, let me --

>> Howard Fischer:
But here's the issue... not only did he have time for -- didn't he have time for the president of the Navajo nation, but we said, how about a local press conference. You know what George Bush likes? He likes the White House press corps, because they don't ask tough questions. They know if they ask one tough question, they will never get called on again.

>> Barrett Marson:
But I have to say one thing I noticed about John Kerry, he seemed to have a lot of energy and he was literally running into crowds, much probably to the chagrin of the secret service. But he was running down alleyways off San Francisco
Street greeting people who would not have otherwise been able to see him because there were too many people packed into the square.

>>Paul Giblin:
So how do you vote, Bush or Kerry, just based on the speeches?

>>Barrett Marson:
Based on the speeches, you gotta go Ralph Nader.

>> Barrett Marson:
Al Sharpton.

>> Michael Grant:
Let's go to November's ballot. Supreme Court says clean elections will not be put to a vote.

>> Howard Fischer:
The Supreme Court without issuing a written decision at this point essentially agreed with judge Margaret from Maricopa County Superior Court. They said there is a single subject rule that applies to constitutional amendments. The folks who want to repeal clean elections, which was passed by voters in '98, didn't go out and seek an outright appeal. They got too cute for themselves. They put in two provisions, number one, no public money for political campaigns. Margaret Downey said and the Supreme Court agreed that by itself would have been fine but then they also said all that money goes to the citizens Clean Elections Commission from the surcharges on fines, the dollar for dollar tax donations, goes away and goes into the treasury. The clean elections not only funds public campaigns but also fund debates and candidate pamphlets. What the judge said is you might want to get rid of public financing of campaigns but you might want to keep the Clean Elections Commission able to do the other things. Therefore, you can't force people to accept part A to get part B.

>> Barrett Marson:
This is truly significant because now in 2006 we will have, again, clean elections and we'll have -- we'll likely have the governor - again - running under the clean elections Banner and we may have a Republican in either J.D. Hayworth or Rick Romley running unclean or -- whatever spin you want to put on it. You know, every time a president or whoever comes to the Valley to raise money for that candidate, Janet Napolitano will also benefit.

>> Howard Fischer:
That's really the key. The fact that we call it clean elections but there's so much about it that really isn't clean -- it's not that we've gotten rid of special interests. For example, Janet Napolitano, one quarter of her $5 donations, which qualified for her for more than $2 million, came from unions. So essentially they leveraged half a million dollars for her.

>> Michael Grant:
Protect Arizona Now, the Secretary of State says, has sufficient signatures to make the ballot but we were expecting a challenge to be filed against it, and it has been filed?

>> Howard Fischer:
Yes. This is a whole different legal theory than the one dealing with clean elections. The statutes say that if you're going to put petitions on -- circulate petitions to put them on the ballot, you have to have a 100-word description of the key provisions. The description had two of those provisions, A., that you have to show you're in the country legally to get public benefits and, B., you're going to have to prove citizenship to register to vote. What was not in there is the fact that under this new law, if you are a government employee and you know of somebody coming in who is not here legally, you are required to file a written report with federal immigration authorities or you're guilty of a class II misdemeanor. The attorneys who filed suits said that is clearly a provision folks should have known about. Now, the folks who support the Protect Arizona Now initiative say this really isn't a new law. There are laws on the books that require public employees to report fraud. This is just an extension of the same thing.

>> Michael Grant:
More specific reference to it. A second challenge has to do with whether or not the people who circulated it were qualified to do so and whether or not the Secretary of State ought to be compelled to determine that.

>> Howard Fischer:
And that's an interesting legal theory because generally speaking if you want to throw something off the ballot like people that wanted to throw Ralph Nader off the ballot they provide the information that these people were not qualified circulators. These folks are saying, no, that's up to Jan Brewer to do, and, of course, Jessica Funkhauser who is the Attorney General in charge of elections says that's not what the statute says. She says, we checked a random sample of people who signed on the front. It's not up to us to determine whether people circulating are legally qualified.

>> Michael Grant:
Local campaign development, Paul, on Colette RISOTI.

>> Paul Giblin:
She fired off an e-mail speaking about her opponent, she is running in the Scottsdale area, and her opponents, she's saying, one isn't married and the other one is married but doesn't have any children…hmmm, she said, and she also gets into the debate in her e-mail that gay forces are teaming up to get rid of her. A very bizarre e-mail.

>> Barrett Marson:
But the problem of it is, is that one of her opponents, Royce Flora, who is the married but childless candidate, has attempt to have a child with his wife, who has had miscarriages, and then cancer, and then a hysterectomy, so now Colette is kind of taking advantage of a woman who can't have kids, and to the best of my knowledge, Colette does not have the guts to apologize for that.

>> Paul Giblin:
She doesn't make the case as to why somebody who isn't married can't be a good legislator or why somebody who doesn't have children can't be a good legislator.

>> Barrett Marson:
I think it's the hmm aspect of it, single person, must be gay if they're single.

>> Howard Fischer:
This is the same thing that much of the quote-unquote religious right uses. If you look at Andy Thomas' literature, it says, I am against gay marriage and I will keep gays from marrying. The Supreme Court decided it, but by George, these are the kinds of things that they think will bring people to the polls.

>> Michael Grant:
Questions are being raised about the funding for the Arizona Cardinal's new stadium in Glendale. The tourism and sports authority has agreed to pay $32 million to help keep that facility on schedule. Paul, you broke the story. What's happening between TSA and Glendale?

>> Paul Giblin:
It's not quite as done as you just said it was. They've offered to pay $32 million, the TSA, which has a new name, the Arizona sports and tourism authority, so AFTA has agreed to take over that, and they would pay for it with the same mechanism that Glendale was going to pay for it, that would be a tax and parking charges. But the AFTA would be the ones issuing the bonds and the advantage to Glendale there is that Glendale wouldn't have to issue the bonds. Glendale's rating wouldn't have to take the hit for it. That seems like a good deal for Glendale. And it seems like a fairly good deal for the authority considering Glendale has been sitting on it for a year-and-a-half and hasn't done it and meanwhile they're building a stadium that's half finished and they would like to flush the toilets when the game starts. But Glendale for some reason hasn't adopted this yet. The sports authority offered them this out and they're sitting on it and they're thinking about it again. They're not jumping on it. It.

>> Barrett Marson:
Seems the problem that the TSA wants -- if we're going to take on some of this risk by taking -- by selling the bonds and doing the infrastructure costs, which by the way I'm not sure is truly legal because I thought the legislation said the host city has to do the infrastructure but that's another debate I guess, but that the TSA then wants all the tax revenue, even if the bonds are retired and there's still extra money left over. Glendale says, well, that's our money, and the TSA says, it's your money but it should also be your risk. In fact, it is your risk because you signed the contract.

>> Paul Giblin:
That's the issue for people like you know, Hawker, the Mayor of Mesa, who had a bid for the stadium, using those same mechanisms and now he's seeing that the sports authority is about to assume that or is trying to assume that, really.

>> Michael Grant:
…restructuring the deal.

>> Paul Giblin:
And he's saying that would have made our bid a lot better.

>> Michael Grant:
Paul a couple questions, number one s there a real threat of a delay in the opening of the stadium?

>> Paul Giblin:
Oh -- there sure is. I've been looking at -- just hundreds of pages of letter back and forth between them and the sports authority and Mike Bidwill, the vice-president and son of the owner of the Cardinals, they often write letters together to Glendale, and every letter they say, this thing is really threatening to throw the stadium off track, to delay it and delays mean more costs.

>> Barrett Marson:
Not only do delays mean more costs but remember Arizona has been awarded the 2008 Super Bowl, and so they were only going to have a couple of seasons to work out any kinks, to make sure everything was -- the NFL wants that time to ensure that the stadium is up and running.

>> Michael Grant:
In fact f I recall correctly, I think it was a bid requirement that you have a minimum amount of running time.

>> Barrett Marson:
Not only that, but every day they spend in Tempe is lost revenue at the new stadium.

>> Paul Giblin:
Exactly. Besides that, the Cardinals have been playing in a college stadium since '88, and they want to get out it. They would like to envision themselves as a Pro team.

>> Barrett Marson:
Not only that, this is their new home and they want to get to their new home.

>> Michael Grant:
Is an issue here with the City of Glendale the fact that the hockey arena and the surrounding development really has not worked out as they expected?

>> Paul Giblin:
Well, yes, Glendale wrote Steve Elman, the owner of the Coyotes, a check for $180 million so he could build himself a hockey arena across the street from the football arena, so Glendale's bond ratings have taken a hit, guaranteeing that.

>> Michael Grant:
But also the associated development around the arena has not come through the way they anticipated it.

>> Barrett Marson:
No. Not only that, but remember, the NHL and its players union are -- well, they're not even talking much right now and there could be easily a lockout this season, and if that happens, now there's no revenue coming in, but Glendale is still on the hook for that $180 million and those bond payments. So Glendale doesn't want to back up the bonds for the FSA because it's got its own problems to think about for the hockey.

>> Paul Giblin:
And Glendale in the next 30 years might think about building roads, building libraries, building water treatment facilities, building things that cities typically do and bond for and so they're backing up all the bond for the hockey arena, football stadium. They might not have a lot of bonding capacity left.

>> Michael Grant:
Sticking with the real property theme, but switching to Scottsdale. That was quick. Scottsdale now owns Los Arcos.

>> Paul Giblin:
That was quick. In Scottsdale you can get a referendum against rainbows if you try. But somehow that didn't happen with the ASU property. ASU wants to own the Los Arcos mall site and build a tech center there, high-tech stuff. We've discussed that in the past. So there was a group of opposition group who tried to circulate petitions, didn't get enough signatures, that thing fizzled.

>> Michael Grant:
14 minutes later the deed is signed.

>> Paul Gilblin:
14 minutes later the deed is signed. The ASU foundation bought the property from Elman. The city turned around --

>> Barrett Marson:
I don't understand why the foundation had to be the middleman here. Why -- you have Steve Elman and the Scottsdale Mayor Mary Manross, and I was going to say hate was probably too strong a word but it might not be too strong a word, but they just don't like each other, and there was no communication. It was a good thing the foundation came in and served as a middleman.

>> Michael Grant:
Sticking to the real property theme, going to downtown Phoenix, we're going to have a med school between U of A and ASU --

>> Howard Fischer:
The universities are busy buying up distressed property and bailing out Scottsdale, bailed out the -- the unions and Fife Symington on the Mercado, now they'll bail out the old Phoenix union high school main site. There is a sort of memorandum of understanding that we need a medical school presence north of the Gila. The only medical college is in fact in Tucson. But rather than create a whole new medical college here, this will be a branch of the U of A, however, it would be housed here where most the people are, but they're working out the details. This is one of those things where -- it will be interesting to see how it gets put together. We don't know what it will cost. We don't know how long it will --

>> Michael Grant:
It was bandied about $150 million.

>> Howard Fischer:
Based on what? The $150 million was one figure. When does it start? We don't know but we're working on it. Will we relax the fact that we don't allow med students in from other states? Well, we don't know that.

>> Barrett Marson:
$150 million, where are the universities going to come up with this money?

>> Howard Fischer:
Barrett, now you're thinking small. We bail out everyone. The idea is -- they can bond for just about anything assuming the regents go along and also the legislature if they need the authority, I think there's a belief about folks in the Valley that they'd like to have their own medical school. Now, there already is presence here of the U of A medical school. About 40% of the kids do their residency up here and there's even a private medical school that does osteopathic.

>> Michael Grant:
If I recall correctly, in the multiple campus plan, which was two plans ago, maybe three plans ago, there was also the nursing college I believe was going to move downtown and there was some thought at least that there was a logic to that because it's situated the nursing school closer to some of the major hospitals, Good Samaritan, St. Joe's.

>> Howard Fischer:
And it may make sense, and Arizona is a growing state and question is do we need more than one medical school. Probably. Does it need to be an independent school, part of ASU rather than sort of a quasi-joint venture? I don't know. I don't know that it makes any difference.

>> Barrett Marson:
It may be considered under the new university system as the mid-central university.

>> Paul Giblin:
I don't think the U of A wanted to lose its ties to the medical school.

>> Michael Grant:
It plays heavily also into a lot of research dollars and those kinds of things, too. I think there's that aspect.

>> Howard Fischer:
And there's the fact that up until 1956 this was only Arizona state college because the U of A wanted to be the only university. Before that it was Tempe normal and there are a lot of us that still think of it that way.

>> Michael Grant:
Had to put it on the ballot. I can't think of a real estate theme for this other than the fact that some elderly jurors are having to show up in downtown Phoenix but the legislature is looking to maybe retool that law to change things?

>> Howard Fischer:
This is one of those brilliant laws of unintended consequences. State lawmakers back in 2003 pass add law to tighten up on jury scoff law. These are very conservative business groups and they were convinced if more real people served on jurors there would be smaller jury verdicts, so they tighten you had up the law to say you can't get the automatic excuse. You can't call downtown and say, I'm old, there's no public transportation. If you want a medical excuse, you have to go to a doctor and pay a fee. Transportation excuse, you have to bring in financial records to show you can't afford to get a taxi. Being old doesn't disqualify you anymore. So a come lawmakers said, look, there ought to be some sort of automatic opt out, you reach, 65, 70, 75, 80, you ought to be able to call downtown and say, I'm too old, go away.

>> Michael Grant:
Panelists, we are out of time. Thanks very much. If you want to see a transcript of tonight's program, I don't know why, please visit our website at www.kaet.asu.edu, click on the word "Horizon," that is going to zip you to transcripts, links and information on upcoming shows.

>> An Arizona congressman is campaigning for senator John Kerry and says Kerry made a huge impact at the democratic convention. Meanwhile, the political ground war continues in Arizona as both Republicans and Democrats fight for your vote. A look at the process Monday night at 7:00 on Channel 8's "Horizon."

>> Michael Grant:
Then on Tuesday, we take a look at the competitive primary races for the state legislature. Thanks for being here on a Friday. Have a great weekend. I'm Michael Grant. Good night.

 

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