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September 9, 2003

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
·New Director of the Arizona Department of Corrections;
·The Arizona Supreme Court looks at line-item vetoes to budget cuts
In-Studio Guests:
·Barrett Marson, Arizona Daily Star;
·Dora Schriro, new Director of the Department of Corrections

>> Michael: Tonight on "Horizon," Arizona's new prison director must contend with record numbers of inmates in the highest staff turnover rate of any state agency. We'll hear from the state's first female corrections chief about how she'll tackle those problems and about her ambitious plan to keep inmates from returning to prison.

>>> Plus, did Governor Napolitano have the right to use line item vetoes in removing legislative budget cuts? That's what the Arizona Supreme Court took under consideration today. We'll take a closer look at that case. Good evening, I'm Michael Grant. Welcome to "Horizon." In June Governor Napolitano used line item vetoes not to cut spending but to remove spending cuts made by lawmakers. Legislative leaders were outraged at that tactic. They have asked the Supreme Court to rule on the use of vetoes in those circumstances. The five-judge panel heard oral arguments in the case today. The attorney for legislative leaders argued the governor overstepped her bounds and vetoed items she wasn't entitled to veto. The attorney representing Governor Napolitano pointed out that governor followed the precedent set in a previous lawsuit when then Senate president Pete Rios sued governor Fife Symington over the use of line item vetoes. Joining me is Barrett Marson who covered this morning's oral arguments for the Arizona Daily Star. All right, two branches meet in front of a third branch. I guess the first question to ask, did the Supreme Court indicate they were going to take jurisdiction of the case? They don't have to take it.

>> Barrett Marson: They don't have to, and so far there's no indication, and I think they asked a lot of questions today of both sides to find out should they even be the referee here. It really seems that they don't want to have to decide what may be essentially just a political argument between the democratic governor and the Republican-controlled legislature. So they asked a lot of questions, should they even be deciding this?

>> Michael: Well, and in fact, if I recall, the governor's brief correctly, she had made a couple of points along that line -- along those lines. For example, the legislature didn't attempt to override my vetoes, and this is actually not the full legislature that is moving, it's the legislative leadership. Did the court focus on any of those --

>>Barrett: Yes, they did folk us a little bit. There was also some discussion, well, you know, is this the proper format for us to come in front of us. But, you know, it was argued that anybody can truly bring a special action like this, any taxpayer can bring an action against an illegal appropriation, and so that was some of the argument put forth. But there was a little bit more argument just centered on, is this a political fight? So, therefore --

>> Michael: Should the court stay out of it if it's really the executive branch battling the legislative branch.

>> Barrett: Right. And the attorney representing the four leaders of the House and Senate, John Bouma said, hey, state government is about politics. This has a degree of politics in it, but it's just built into the system. And there are really, truly substantive issues that the court needs to interpret and needs to weigh in on.

>> Michael: The main complaint that legislators have and you almost need a blackboard to illustrate this, but, for example, I seem to recall I think it was the agricultural department, they had started, they being the legislature, started out with an appropriation of 12 million but then had an item further down that minus 1 million for 11 million net. The governor line itemed through the million and actually by line item vetoing which we normally think of as shoving spending down n this case she pushed spending up.

>> Barrett: Exactly. As several members of the court said, this was really a poor way to write -- to author a budget. Why don't you -- if you want to spend $11 million for the Department of Agriculture, why don't you write it instead of writing 12 million -- I don't remember the exact numbers. But it's close. They subtracted money and came out with a net figure. Why don't you just write the net figure first? That seems like the way you should do it. Talking to people afterwards, I think that's the way they're going to do it from now on. They're not going to miss around with this reductions.

>> Michael: Barrett, if I recall correctly, I think the partial explanation was essentially the Senate was working off the house version and so, for example, the house might have sent over this top number but then the Senate sort of worked in a net sum game instead of starting from scratch.

>> Barrett: Unless those reductions were specific programs where, okay, we're going to give the Department of Agriculture X amount of money, which is what they had last year, but we want to get rid of these specific programs. So this is how much those specific programs cost. We subtract that out and we have the net number. Snow a way, to show legislative intent on where they want -- because they gave a lump sum to a lot of agencies.

>> Michael: One of the other legislative complaints is that she vetoed, for lack of better term, policy changes that were in the budget bill, but this is text, it's not numbers. Again, you don't normally think of the line item veto being applied to words and not amounts.

>> Barrett: Right. Exactly. And she took a line out of the orbit for under AHCCCS under the public health ORB and said the adult dental program in AHCCCS should remain. Well, Scott Bailes, her attorney, argued that's really money because it affects what happens in the -- just the general appropriations. So even though it looks like policy, it's really money. I'm not sure if the court really bought that. There was a lot of questions of Scott Bailes on that -- that thinking.

>> Michael: Sound like a vigorous oral argument session and I guess we'll find out shortly whether the court will take it up and maybe thereafter how they're going to decide it. Barrett Marson thanks very much for being here.

>>> Overcrowding, understaffing just two of the issues Arizona's new prison director must deal with. In a moment I'll talk to the new corrections chief about her plans for the department. But first Paul Atkinson looks at the challenges ahead for the new director.

>> Reporter: Inmate work crews prepare tents for new inmates at Perryville women's prison east of Phoenix. The number of inmates in Arizona prisons topped 31,000 in July. 4100 inmates more than there are permanent beds. Thus, the tents and double and triple bunks in prison cells. There are a total of 10 prison complexes in the state run by the department of corrections. Three private prisons in Arizona also house state inmates as well as a jail in east Texas. Loot Wisconsin prison complex between Buckeye and Gila Bend contains the newest state prisons. It also has the highest job vacancy rate. In July, more than 27% of correctional jobs at Lewis were unfilled.

>> It's a very dangerous situation. You have less officers with more inmates.

>> Reporter: Joe Masella is president of the Arizona correctional piece offices association a union with more than 1600 members statewide.

>> Our officers face danger every day. There is a day that doesn't go by an officer doesn't get assaulted in this state. When I talk about assault, class 6 felony is inmates spitting on you because of aides, hepatitis C. Officers are facing tough situations every day.

>> Reporter: The state office offers. Salaries are low compared to other law enforcement agencies.

>> The disparity when you promote from officer to sergeant, in some cases you are making less than officers. Lieutenants are making less than officers. There's no pay scale. It's been a Band-Aid on a grenade wound for too long.

>> The quality we have is very good but in order to keep those folks there, we have to raise the base pay, and we're not competitive with the police departments or other agencies and I think that's caused some of it. Then you take the remote locations in addition to that, and that causes the rest of the problem.

>> Reporter: Representative Bill Konopnicki chairs a study on the overcrowded prison problem and possible solutions.

>> 96% of these folks who are incarcerated at some point will be coming back into society and the issue we're really trying to deal with is how do we deal with that, what makes sense, how do we make sure we drop our recidivism rate and allow the folks to be have a chance to be competitive when they get back home?

>> Reporter: That's a task Arizona's new prison director Doris Schriro has pledged to tackle. Her goal of getting inmates prepared to succeed when released has the support of union officers.

>> We're backing any move she makes towards that goal because our job as correction officers is to make sure these inmates don't want to come back to prison. And being a knuckle dragging bully don't work, never has worked. We're behind any kind of intellectual plan she has for these inmates.

>> Reporter: But first the new director must deal with an agency that's never had a woman at the Helm, let alone someone from the outside in almost 20 years.

>> She's facing a good ol' boy system that's been in place since 1912. We're well aware who they are. One by one they're leaving.

>> Michael: Joining me now is Dora Schriro, the new director of the Department of Corrections. Ms. Schriro previously was head of the St. Louis detention system and ran the state of Missouri prison system. Did I botch your name too badly?

>> Dora Schrio: Not too badly.

>> Michael: If so I apologize. Welcome to Arizona.

>>Dora: Thank you so much.

>> Michael: What about this good boy network? You have been touring all the prisons in the state. Have you found a good boy network that's tough to crack?

>> Dora: What I have found are terrific employees in every single facility. I had the great pleasure my first month to tour all 10 of our prison complexes and accompanied by a number of staff, Joe on some occasions, have walked all the halls and runs, been up towers and down yards. I'm terrifically impressed with the 10,000-plus employees that we have. The work that they do at the training academy, their ongoing in service is very impressive.

>> Michael: Why the heavy turnover?

>>Dora: I think it's a number of reasons. There are problems with both the recruitment and there are problems with the retention. As we heard in the intro, our salaries are not competitive any longer, and some of the strategies to attract employees to some facilities are not applied across the board to all institutions. When you take a look at our overall vacancy rate, it appears to be relatively low, and so like most numbers, it really needs to be probed a little bit further. Department-wide we're short about 11% of our uniformed staff but when you factor in the significant number, which we're all very proud of our employees who are still serving overseas, as well as new officers who are involved in our training academy, department-wide our vacancy rate operationally is really 19%. Then if you look at that figure a little bit harder, there are some facilities where it's particularly difficult to attract and retain the terrific staff that we have. Lewis, IMAN, Florence are some of the facilities that have more difficulty than others.

>> Michael: I think you got a charge from the governor to do an overall assessment and report back. We have already talked a little bit about the overall assessment. On the reporting back function, specific deep recommendations? Just an assessment back on, well, governor I found all ten of them and they're functioning? I mean, give me some feel for what's going on?

>> Dora: I'm really taking a hard look, a top-to-bottom and bottom-to-top review of the agency and all its activities and operations. And as a preliminary assessment, I'm very pleased to report that our fundamental security systems are just top shelf. Arizona can be very, very proud for its core correctional practices. One of the things that's missing and that we've been talking some about is taking a longer view of public safety, not just ensuring that bad things don't happen while felons are under our supervision and in our custody, but also taking a look at who they are when they go home, because as representative Konopnicki said so correctly, all but 4%, 96% of everybody we've got today, those 31,000 people, they're all coming home, and so the question for us as citizens and taxpayers is, well, if they're coming back, my gosh, how do we want them?

>> Michael: In fact, I understand one of the reasons you were brought in is you've got a pretty good track record reducing recidivism. What have you done differently that perhaps we aren't doing or other systems are not doing?

>> Dora: Well, thank you. There are several things that we need to focus on. We need to underscore the need that our inmates return to their communities as civil individual, and at the minimum that means they're not only law abiding that they don't break the law any more, but they also have learned citizenship skills so as to be good, thoughtful, courteous neighbors. But beyond that, we're really going to press ourselves to improve public safety further by ensuring that they come back to their communities not only civil, but productive.

>> Michael: What -- is this a classroom function? Or, I mean --

>> Dora: Well, this is to some extent turning the system on its head and reinventing it. But the reason that they need to come back first civil and productive is so that when they come back not only do they not do bad things, but they start doing good things. That is, stay sober, get up in the morning, get a job, take care of themselves, take care of their families. If we fail our public by not addressing the productivity issue as well as the civil tea issue, then when they come home all we have succeeded in doing is transferring them from one welfare system, prison, to another in the community.

>> Michael: I think I understand the concept. I mean -- I think that's been our goal for a long time. Perhaps not. How do you accomplish it?

>> Dora: In a word, press, that we need starting day one of incarceration to prepare this population to return to the community. Why? Because on average the person who is coming into our system is about 32 years of age and they serve about 35 months. So you think about it, oh, my gosh, we have 35 months to undo and redo 32 years of living that brought them to the Arizona department of corrections. What you do is heavily emphasize schoolwork treatment. Basic literacy skills, basic sobriety skills and developing a good work ethic. The basic kinds of socialization that you and I acquired years ago that they have not. The way in which you do it that I think leads to its effectiveness is you reorganize the system as best you can without ever impacting negatively the basic security mission so that you deliver these activities as much like the real world as possible so that they --

>> Michael: Is that what you call the parallel universe?

>>Dora: Exactly. So that you run the prisons as much like the real world as possible. It is essential that we shift some decision making, and in all accounts, accountability and responsibility to the inmates to fix themselves before they go home.

>> Michael: Current immediate issue, overcrowding, at the end of the regular session there was discussion of a special session for an emergency $30 million appropriation to build more beds. I think I heard that about 4,000 beds short. How bad is the overcrowding system? And is a special session, an additional appropriation required?

>>Dora: How bad is overcrowding? It's a very serious situation. Our great staff put themselves as risk every day. They work in -- under difficult circumstances in a potentially dangerous situation. The overcrowding is impacted by the idleness, which gets back to your earlier question about, I thought we were doing some of these things? Yes, there are expectations in place that every inmate work, that every inmate achieve at least grade 8 literacy, but there is still considerable idleness in our prisons. Not all inmates are productively engaged 40 hours a week. Not all inmates who perform below grade 8 are yet in a classroom. And so redoubling our efforts to have them develop those reentry and prerelease skills is top on the list.

>> Michael: Do we need more beds, though?

>>Dora: We will probably need beds. Those beds are to both make up the current shortfall that we are presently experiencing as well as the anticipated future shortfall that would occur if all activities continue as they have in the past, that is, if our crime rate continues to be as it is and if sentencing practices continue as they presently are.

>> Michael: Is the need immediate enough that you need it this fiscal year for a supplemental appropriation?

>> Well, there will be a need for additional monies to acquire additional beds. We are finishing now our assessment as to the time line for the request. But it is quite clear that we have put as many tents up as can be erected and still we are seeing growth on average of about 160 prisoners additional a month.

>> Michael: So should I take that as a probably subject to the conclusion of your assessment?

>> Dora: That more money --

>> Michael: More money this fiscal year?

>> Dora: Yes, this fiscal year, yes.

>> Michael: Okay. Stay with us. The issue of inmate health made health lines this summer when a 25-year-old female inmate died despite pleas for medical help. Paul Atkinson has her story.

>> Reporter: Gina Box was a mother of 4 kids. She had a drug problem and was caught selling stolen goods to support her habit. When Gina couldn't keep one terms of her probation, she was sentenced to three-and-a-half years in prison. Her parents, Chris and Diane Panetta of Mesa, took care of her two youngest kids while Gina went to Perryville prison west of Phoenix in June 2002.

>> Gina was taking every class she could possibly take in prison to try to get -- she was going for her degree and she wanted to get something going so that when she got out she was able to get a better job than just waitressing which is what she had done most of the time.

>> Reporter: Gina started feeling sick and fatigued in April. She sought help from the prisons's health services department.

>> At first we thought, just allergies, maybe -- Diane thought it might have been Valley fever because she was having shortness of breath but things kept progressing and getting worse and worse and worse. She had bleeding of the ear. They gave her ear drops and told her it was caused from wax buildup.

>> Reporter: Nurses gave Gina antibiotics twice. She didn't improve.

>> So every time we would go visit her every other week, she just looked weaker and weaker and she couldn't talk and she would call us during the week and she would be crying on the phone, mom, I don't know what to do. I'm getting worse. I can't get anybody to help me. You know, they just treat me like I've got a cold or something. And something's wrong.

>> Reporter: On her mom's advice, Gina kept a written record of each time she asked for an appointment, saw a nurse or was given medicine. Gina filed formal appeals for proper medical attention and testing, and in one she wrote please help in capital letters.

>> She wrote two grievances against a couple of the nurses. She wrote a letter to the head administrator, the health administrator, the war deny. Nothing was done. It was all, we have checked out your situation and you are in good care and you are getting proper and timely care and that was pretty much the end of it.

>> Reporter: That is until Gina collapsed in her prison cell. She was given a blood test and taken to Maricopa Medical Center the next day. I go down to see her, she was very alert, coherent but in a lot of pain and really, really tired. And she was so happy. She says, I'm finally going to get some care. And we were there about 15 minutes, and the doctor came in, and he said, she has severe leukemia.

>> Reporter: Gina suffered a stroke later that day, went into a coma and died the next day. Exactly one year after she began serving her prison sentence.

>> I just feel like we were just let down so many times. They had so many chances and so many opportunities to help her.

>> Reporter: A month after their daughter's death, Gina's parents received a letter from the deputy director of the department of corrections health services. Dr. Robert Jones wrote, that Gina was at no time neglected medically by the prison system. I would consider any inmate who was ill a serious matter. The health services division has many practices in place to ensure that patient care is continually monitored and evaluated for delivery of care as well as quality. I hope knowing that Gina was provided proper medical attention while in prison will help you in this time of bereavement.

>> If we were foster parents and these were our kids and we were treating them this way, we'd be down at the jail. So why is it okay for somebody that's decided to be a nurse just because they're in a state facility that they can do this and get by with it? It's not right.

>> Reporter: This is video of Gina's youngest daughter on her first birthday. It was also the last one they'd share together. Gina's parents will now raise their two youngest grandkids.

>> This could be your daughter. This could be your mother. This could be your sister. They're regular people, like you and I. You know, maybe they made a mistake, but they're paying their debt to society. And to be taken care of in this manner or should I say not taken care of, it's wrong. And it needs to be changed.

>> Michael: Now, I realize that you can't comment specifically on that case, but you mentioned that you've done a bottom-to-top, top-to-bottom sort of evaluation. Has part of that evaluation included inmate healthcare, healthcare facilities, the quality of that healthcare?

>> Dora: Yes. In my tour of all of the correctional facilities I've made a point of going to a number of the clinics and the infirmaries and into the pharmacies that. I've talked with a number of the medical staff, as I have with uniformed personnel and other employees of the department.

>> Michael: Have you found it to be a sound system?

>> Dora: It is a good service system, and it has a number of processes in place so as to make efforts towards continuous improvement. In a correctional system, there are any number of obligations that we have, not only to citizens in general, but to the offenders who are sent to us by the courts, and healthcare is one of those basic services that is the department's responsibility to provide, and so these processes are this place to ensure that community standards are met and that requires the certification, the accreditation of the staff that we are hire, the ratios, the protocols that are developed to work with various conditions that are brought to medical personnel.

>> Michael: I recognize there will always be security concerns, but there are appropriate cases when I would not expect the prison system to be a fully staffed on all sorts of disease and ailments kind of situation, will there be a situation -- situations where inmates, for example, who exceed the treatment capabilities of the internal staff will be transported to external medical facilities?

>> Dora: Yes, those contracts are currently in place with a number of hospitals around the state, and so when care cannot be delivered inside of the facility, those prisoners are transported either for out patient or inpatient care.

>> Michael: All right. Dora Schriro, director, Arizona department of corrections, we appreciate your time, and we certainly wish you the best of luck in the assignment.

>> Dora: Well, thank you. I sure appreciate the time.

>> Michael: Here is a look at tomorrow's "Horizon."

>> Phoenix has a new Mayor. We will talk about the results of that race and others from Tuesday's Phoenix city election. And the AIMS test. We take a look at the most recent numbers, what they mean and some of the issues behind this standardized test. That's Wednesday at 7:00 p.m. on "Horizon."

>> Michael: Then on Thursday on the two-year anniversary of 9-11 we'll look at Arizona's homeland security efforts. Thank you very much for joining us on this Tuesday evening. I'm Michael Grant. Have a great one. Good night.

 

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