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September 5, 2003

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
·The Journalists Roundtable
In-Studio Guests:
Paul Davenport, Associated Press;
Bart Graves, KFYI radio;
Kathleen Ingley, Arizona Republic

>> Michael: It's Friday, September 5, 2003. In the headlines this week, the 9th circuit Court of Appeals issues a ruling that impacts nearly three quarters of Arizona's death row inmates. This is the final week of campaigning in the Phoenix election in which voters will select a new Mayor and decide a few council races. And a feud developed between the east and west Valley regarding a future transportation plan. Good evening, I'm Michael Grant. This is the Journalists Roundtable. Joining me to talk about these and other stories are Paul Davenport, from associated press, Bart Graves from KFYI radio and Kathleen Ingley from the "Arizona Republic." 88 Arizona death row inmates not a new lease on life, at least temporarily, this week from the 9th circuit Court of Appeals. Paul, what did the court say about their death sentences?

>> Paul Davenport: The court overturned them. We talked about inmates who did not have pending appeals in the court system, at least on the state level. What happened was a year ago the U.S. Supreme Court did a major change in death penalty law, said that juries, not judges, have to decide factors that could decide whether than main it gets a death sentence or not, and the latest ruling says that ruling applies retroactively to the folks who are already on death row, already out of the direct appeal stage.

>> Michael: Now, certainly one of the big questions, and I -- you get opinions on both sides of it, but can the state resentence or are these sentences permanently commuted to life in prison instead of death?

>>Paul: There's nothing in the ruling that directly says that. There is some language that would indicate that could be the case. As usual, the -- there's disagreement among the lawyers. They're talking they're going to litigate that. The next step in this matter is to appeal this ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court. The state's lawyers were quick to note some other federal courts other that the 9th circuit have ruled different ways on a related issue, as did our own state Supreme Court. So they're expressing confidence the U.S. Supreme Court will overturn the 9th circuit. After that I think it will probably shake out with even more litigation to argue some of those issues.

>> Michael: One of the other issues that came up a little later in the week that I wasn't aware of, Paul, until I read about it, but there's also a little twist here in terms of Arizona changed its life in prison statute. Only about 10 years or so ago. How does that impact this whole equation?

>> Paul: Well, if in fact this law -- this ruling is upheld and proceeds this way, some of these guys in the older cases, and we are talking almost without exception men, they were sentenced to basically 25 years to life. Now, depending on their circumstances, whether they have other sentences would that supposedly follow a life sentence for another crime like robbery or sexual assaults or something, theoretically they could get out after 25 years on parole. Summerlin, the named defendant in this particular case, is in that boat. I think he has less than a half dozen years to go on 25 years. Whether he would be eligible for parole or any of the others, that's down the road, though.

>> Michael: But the Attorney General saying, all right, we're going to run it up to the United States Supreme Court?

>> Bart Graves: And should they decide for the 9th circuit, his problem is look, I'm understaffed as it is, this is an enormous undertaking to go ahead and schedule all these sentencing hearing again in front of juries.

>>Paul: It's not just him. It's the counties attorney. The county attorneys around the state, it's a big burden.

>> Kathleen IngleyThey are estimating $100,000 a case on the cheap side. It could be more than that. Then you might have witnesses who died, although they say, well, we could maybe use depositions, but --

>> Bart: A lot of these cases are 20, 25 years old.

>> Michael: If I recall correctly, Summerlin's case was 22 years old, I think --

>> Paul: 1981 case.

>> Michael: 1981. Obviously the U.S. Supreme Court, if I recall correctly, they have about 90 days to go up to the court and the then the court will decide sometime, I assume, later this year.

>>Paul: I think they're thinking they'll get a decision sometime early next year.

>> Michael: They'll decide whether to take the case.

>> Paul: Before they leave at the end of the next term. There are a number of death penalty issues before the U.S. Supreme Court. They hadn't thought they were going to deal with a lot of them, but all of a sudden they're starting to stack up again.

>> Michael: Why are two Arizona representatives threatening to sue the Corporation Commission over the pipeline break?

>> Bart: Well, there's two answers to this. One would be it's just politics. And the other would be, it's just politics. The two representatives in question are both democratic state representatives Ted doning and Ben Miranda and they called some reporters, some TV folks to the Arizona Corporation Commission office yesterday and they added kinder Morgan flow records. This is the gas line that ruptured, that's what they want to find out. Thinking they have a say over writ goes in the state. They want those records. So they're threatening to sue for some of this information they're saying is being denied them. The postscript to that, the chairman of the Arizona Corporation Commission, Marc Spitzer, Republican, claims that these two state representatives came in there, they were very mean spirited to staff workers, treated them badly, the executive director of the ACC who is a Democrat, wrote a letter saying he was outraged by the horrible behavior of these two reps, and Spitzer believes they were just surrogates for John Laredo who is currently house leader because he wants to run for state Corporation Commission. Laredo told us he has no interest in running for the Corporation Commission and made disparaging remarks against Spitzer. So take that for what you will.

>> Michael: As I understand it, the Arizona Corporation Commission hasn't necessarily said no to producing some or maybe all of this information but they basically said this is a function really that is inside the federal Department of Transportation. So either we or you will have to check with them?

>> Bart: That's right. They referred -- some of this information is very specific to, like I say, flow rates that the feds would have control over, that the ACC does not exactly have jurisdiction over. And they just felt they were getting the run around from the ACC, which is Republican controlled and they are Democrats.

>> Michael: One of the steps we took last month when we were all sitting in line, I'm using we in the loosest sense of the word here --

>>Paul: I was on vacation.

>> Michael: I was in line, too. Phoenix -- the Phoenix blend, we were able -- we got a waiver from the EPA not to use our own special brand of gasoline. Now, that waiver is coming to an end this month, right, Bart?

>> Bart: That's right. And the EPA just today informed the DEQ, the state environmental quality department, that they're going to waive that permanently, as I understand it, after the 20th and we can go back to getting the kind of fuel that other neighboring states have, which is the regular blend, not the special Phoenix blend because of our problems with clean air.

>> Kathleen: I don't think it quite works out that way. We have been trying now for years to get the requirement for MTBE lifted. The people who do air quality modeling with the computers say we don't really need it and California is phasing it out. They've been kind of sitting on this request. Now they've finally sprung into life, and they're looking at -- but we still would probably have a different formula, but it wouldn't be so difficult to blend because as it is now, with California phasing out MTBE, you have to do the MTBE.

>> Michael: Kathleen, are we looking at this in months, years? I mean, is there a time frame where perhaps we would be able to change this blend of fuel? Or does it just depend upon a whole lot of data being kicked about for some period of time?

>> Kathleen: I think the EPA is on the verge of doing it right now, so they -- then the issue -- the question becomes, could we not use the same formula as, say, California uses. Now, we have so much hotter weather there's a question about whether we would have worse air pollution if we used the California cleaner fuel. So they have to go through computer modeling, which is incredibly complex to see if that proposal can be put forward.

>> Paul: Even though -- most of our gasoline comes from cavalry fineries in that west pipeline, economically it would make a lot of sense.

>> Kathleen: It seems like would it make sense. But on the other hand, it wouldn't make any sense if we end up having worse air because we have now had six years without one hour ozone violation. We are about to be declared in compliance, which is a very big deal for ozone.

>> Michael: One final lawsuit related, there's an anti-abortion group suing the state's license plate commission?

>>Paul: That's right. Arizona has a law that says organizations, typically charities, do-gooier sort of outfits, can have special license plates, they get a cut of the extra money you pay for the plates, state gets some for processing them. This was put on the books in the second half of the '90s. A bunch of groups, veteran groups, wilderness group, things like that have them already or they're coming out. The group in question, I think it's Arizona for coalition for pro-life. Sort of an umbrella coalition for right to life, anti-abortion rights folks, they have more or less said they've gotten the runaround from the state commission. We actually have a license plate commission, which I hadn't known --

>> Michael: I didn't know that f I didn't know we had a naming commission, either, until a few months ago.

>> Paul: And then finally the application did come up for a vote last week, and it was denied and now we have the lawsuit saying their constitutional rights to due process and free speech are being violated.

>> Michael: Is there really, Paul, to the best of your knowledge, is there a license plate, though, that makes a political statement? I mean, you've lifted some examples of one --

>> Paul: I'm unaware of any in Arizona. It's interesting to note this is a controversy going on across the country. There is litigation threatened or filed or even decided in a number of other states. I did a check on that in front of my story for this. There is a court ruling in Louisiana saying you can't do it and lawsuits pending in other states.

>> Michael: Arizona becoming an important state in the 2004 presidential election, that was evidence when with when the chairman of the republic un and democratic national committees visited Phoenix on the same day. What did they say about Arizona's role next year.

>>Bart: It was bizarre to have them both in town on the same day. We are trying to figure out if it was a coincidence or planned that way. There's a water gate situation where they're spying -- I'm not quite sure what's happening. In downtown Phoenix you have Terry McAuliffe saying Arizona's primary October 3ed crucial and that you will see a lot of democratic candidates, especially front runners, albeit Mr. Dean, John Kerry, Lieberman who spent all time in the state, they're spending lots of money, they did not find Arizona to be a crucial state for them in 2000, but they find it to be crucial now with the democratic governor and the fact they're reminding folk bill Clinton took the state in '92 and '96. Across time almost at the same time, Ed Gillespie, the chairman of the Republican national committee, was saying they intend to keep Arizona in the Republican column --

>> Michael: Going to take the electoral votes for granted --

>>Bart: Absolutely. 10 of them. And that Hispanic voters are crucial to both the Republicans and the Democrats. The Democrats, according to Gillespie, should not take it for granted that they're just naturally going to get those votes.

>> Michael: Did they talk at all -- I suspect they did not because both of them stressed the crucial nature of the Hispanic vote, but quite honestly that has not been a very efficacious voting population. Are they talking about ways to make it more efficacious?

>> Bart: Well, in the Democrat's forum, he is travelling, Terry McAuliffe, is travelling with the chairman of the house Hispanic caucus and they both go on the stump and they are talking about major efforts to get out to vote in the Hispanic community. There is a concerted effort here they just launched with this news conference and there is a sizable number of elected Hispanic representatives. State representatives that are dedicated to helping the effort, each though some may be pledged to Lieberman, some pledged to Dean.

>>Paul: One thing that may help Hispanic turnout next year is if that immigration initiative gets on the ballot.

>> Bart: The Republican party is not wanting to be closely allied with that right now. Would you say that's true?

>> Bart: We're seeing that.

>> Michael: Talking about a couple specific candidates, you mentioned senator Joe Lieberman, his campaign bus is in Arizona, but he's not.

>>Bart: It's left without him. He doesn't plan to be on the bus. There are going to be no appearances from Joe Lieberman on his campaign bus which will go across the state making stops with the various surrogates, and Mary Rose Wilcox Maricopa supervisor being one of them, talking about the campaign of Joe Lieberman and urging people to get out to vote for him. She was pledged to him early on. We will see his daughter at some point on the bus stumping for votes. But not long. I think she's here for a day and then out of here.

>> Michael: Kathleen, you're a political veteran, do you think the whistle-stop tour conducted by Harry Truman would have been as effective --

>> Kathleen: It makes you think of the dunes bury cartoon where they show like a hat and a feather. So it's the invisible Lieberman. On the other hand, last month when he was going to do the tour, of course, there was the gasoline crisis and it probably wouldn't have looked so good if he was touring around the state while the rest of us under gas lines.

>> Michael: Paul, if I recall correctly, the last poll, and I forget who it was conducted by, might have been Rocky Mountain poll, actually indicated that Joe Lieberman was ahead here in Arizona.

>>Paul: I think that's true. Vast majority, I think -- the biggest block was undecided. But Lieberman was among the candidates who came here a year ago and campaigned for Napolitano and made a presence known and got some attention then.

>> Michael: Howard Dean officially opening his campaign headquarters today?

>> Bart: He did, amongst the cheering crowd, a very energetic crowd of about 250 people. His campaign headquarters is so small they had to use the union hall next door for the rally, but he gave his typical stump speech blasting the bush administration for the loss of integrity for America around the world and he would restore it if he was elected. Talked about his healthcare program to give healthcare and make sure everyone under the age of 18 has healthcare. He had an interesting quote which I played on the radio today saying that Republicans have been unable to balance the budget, so maybe if we -- maybe a liberal is what we need in the White House to balance the budget and that got the biggest cheer.

>> Michael: Now gubernatorial aide Mario Diaz, a logical seg here, because we are still in presidential politics but I suspect we will slide more towards the 9th floor. Mario Diaz going to the Kerry for president campaign in Arizona, correct?

>> Paul: That's right. He's going to be the state director, I think, in that campaign. We've seen a number of Arizona politicians and operatives start to go to the various camps as you mentioned with Mary rose and such. The governor herself is saying she is not going to endorse anybody before the Arizona primary. So no endorsement from her. But we are seeing other politicians and their people pick campaigns. He says it's -- Diaz says it's an opportunity to go for somebody with a real good possibility of getting elected. There was some spectation his days in that office, his current office, were numbered in some fashion anyway because he was a lightning right for criticisms at points with the Piestewa Peak, heavy handed --

>> Michael: He was -- called the supervisor of the former chairman of the commission --

>> Paul: That caused quite a bit of trouble for the governor in terms of the legislators stalled on her confirmation of a lot of her appointments at the legislature after that.

>> Michael: Do you think that this was just simply an opportunity waiting to happen for Mario Diaz?

>> Bart: You know, the common thought about Mario down at the capitol is that he is a wartime -- he is great in the campaign but in peacetime, the candidate gets elected so he doesn't need to be the bare bones tough tactician. As Paul pointed out during the Piestewa Peak thing he did not help her at all. We thought she would find some way to move him quietly out. Whether she had a hand out or not, he is quietly being moved out.

>> Michael: Congressman J.D. Hayworth taking extreme steps to lose weight. The stomach stapling operation is not to be taken lightly.

>> Bart: No. He has been back at work for a while now. This surgery happened August 12th. So he had several weeks of recovery. Basically he was at the time of the surgery 100 pounds overweight, and he really felt that he reached his 45th birthday and thought and long and hard about it and said if I'm going to see my grandkids grow up and kids grow up, I have to do this now. I can't -- he's battled obesity all thinks life. He is about 40 pounds lighter now.

>> Michael: A former athlete and he stated, worked out, and just kept gaining weight. I found sort of curious, he said people would look at a former photo of him with, I think, former president Ronald Reagan and say who is that?

>> Bart: Yeah, that's tough. Plus if he plans to run for governor, he haves to be in shape.

>> Michael: How tough is this Phoenix Mayor's race?

>> Kathleen: Well, lackluster would be perhaps making it sound too exciting. It's been very quiet. The electorate -- the view is, people are pretty happy with how things are, which, of course, plays in the hand of Phil gored un and makes it easier for him to get the upper hand. Haven't been -- the immigrant issue, doesn't seem to have really caught on with a cross section of voters. Crime. But, that still -- you don't get the feeling that there's --

>> Michael: The other profile race, of course, is the Simplot-Flores race, and the feedback I get is people think that's probably pretty close.

>> Kathleen: Right. You also have a district split between the two constituents they represent, you have Flores representing the Hispanics and when they change district boundaries, you pull them in with a district that's heavily gay, you have Tom Simplot who would be the first openly gay member of the city council if he were elected. So you really have two different dynamics in that district kind of pulling each other, and you have to wonder whether people are going to be voting with sort of their identity or --

>> Michael: Meanwhile, in the west most western town, Mary Manross going to be running for reelection.

>> Bart: She has thrown her hat in the race. We expect Cynthia Lucas also on the council to announce her intention to run and there is also David Ortega.

>> Michael: A feud between the East Valley, west Valley, erupted this week over a proposed transportation plan that's to be presented to voters next year. Kathleen, what's behind the disagreement?

>> Kathleen: Well, I didn't get mine. The schoolyard kindergarten about it of that. Everybody wants to be sure that they aren't shortchanged, and very different views in the East Valley and west Valley. The west Valley very much wants a freeway to parallel I-10. Below I-10. For Phoenix and the East Valley, this is sort of, we don't need it. And they would kind of like to get that off. And if that does stay in, well, then, the East Valley, for example, in Mesa they're saying, wait a minute, we have some roads we need done because the East Valley feels shortchanged they only got 63% of the construction last time around. So -- so for some reason they feel shortchanged, and then the west side got 17%. So I guess they could say, we were shortchanged.

>> Michael: Yeah, that's right. I did not realize it was skewed that way. We were talking before the show. But actually when you stop to think about some of the factors, including but not limit to, buying the right-of-way for the 101 through the Pima reservation, there were some rather large dollars involved there.

>>Kathleen: Big chunks of money. And there are things we forget about like extension of red mountain, the price, things that were built earlier on in this whole cycle.

>> Michael: Now, I remember when the -- one of the plans came out a couple, three months ago, it was, what, about the $16 billion range, but it seemed like the committee at least tentatively had approved everything, including about a billion dollars or more so than they actually projected they would have. Where are we on that process?

>> Kathleen: Well, yes, we still have that problem, and a lot of it is sort of the, where is transit going to play into this? Phoenix wants to be sure they get transit. East Valley had been looking for more transit because they have a lot of freeways. West Valley is like, let's build the freeways. And so, we're back to -- so, let's just put everything in there and cross our fingers.

>> Michael: You may have used a freeway to drive your student to take the AIMS test. That's the only seg I could think of.

>> Kathleen: Oh...

>> Michael: And it was pretty poor. So how did the AIMS test results come out, Kathleen?

>> Kathleen: Pretty disappointing. Pretty mixed. When you consider -- what people forget sometimes is everyone is supposed to pass the AIMS test. This is not like a Stanford 9 where we have a bell shaped curve. This is supposed to be you've mastered the material, in principle everyone passes. Especially math. Math is very sad. We talked in our he had tore annuals about is the cup half empty or half full when 50% of 5th graders pass math.

>> Michael: The big view picture that I got was the younger kids still weren't knocking the ball out of the park but were doing better and the high school kids, and it is getting close to when they have to pass the test, were not doing very well at all.

>> Kathleen: Right. Class of 2006, they will have to pass. Of course, they have multiple opportunities to pass it. And a little thing we should remember, they're going to make the test easier. So they should have more chance to pass it.

>> Paul: And the incentive is going to kick in. That has to make a lot of difference to the kids who just don't take it seriously.

>> Kathleen: Right. And especially the upper grades, like 11th and 12th grade. You look at the scores there. Some of them you think, did they come in? If you marked it at random, you could have done better.

>> Michael: Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Horne has made it clear he is not at least going to recommend any further postponement of that pass date. You wonder, though, if the political will is there, if you actually knock on the door and say, hey, we're going to fail 30 or 40 or 45% or whatever the number is at that point if political doesn't buckle on that, Kathleen. What do you think?

>> Kathleen: Well, he maintains if that you look at a state like Massachusetts, they have a 90% pass rate. This is -- I'm taking a number from him, on his word, 10% has failed. He said they're the ones who just don't go to class, absentee problems. His view is you can get people to pass. They're sending out teams to try to improve schools. If you look, you see there are classes where kids do well, it's doable, but are the resources there?

>> Michael: Higher education. Nominees by the governor to the Board of Regents, Paul?

>> Paul: That's right. There aren't two open seats now but there will be in January when some current regents' terms expire and the governor has gone ahead and appointed two new regents to take office in January, they are Lorraine Frank and Ernie Calderone. Calderone is former president of the State Bar of Arizona. Both are prominent civic activists and both are pretty prominent Democrats. Both did volunteer work for Napolitano's campaign. So I think we're looking at folks who come out of the civic activist sort of mold but also have strong political connections to the governor.

>> Michael: We also had a ceremonial signing of a bill affecting higher education this week in the governor's office?

>> Paul: That's one of those -- pieces of legislation they passed during the last session to allow partnerships and some sharing of money and incentive for economic development. It was a ceremonial -- the actual bill was signed months ago.

>> Michael: Panelists thank you very much. To share your views or contact us, please have visit our website at www.kaet.asu.edu, click on the word "Horizon," and that will lead you to transcripts, links and information on upcoming shows. Incidentally, for more political coverage, tune into Channel 8 tonight at 10:00 as we bring you a debate between 8 of the 9 democratic presidential candidates. If you missed that tonight, we'll give you another opportunity to watch the debate Sunday at 2:00 p.m. We'll analyze that debate Monday on "Horizon." Tuesday, Arizona's new prison director will tell us about her plans to improve that system. Wednesday, a look at results from the city elections. And Thursday, we will have an update on our preparations for a terrorist attack on the second anniversary of 9/11. Thank you much for joining us on this Friday edition. I'm Michael Grant. Have a great one. Good night.

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