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September 4, 2002

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
Candidates' Forum: Attorney General - Republican candidates
In-Studio Guests:
John Greene, Foster Robberson, Andrew Thomas

>> Michael: Arizona's Attorney General is sometimes referred to as the state's top cop, charged with enforcing civil and some criminal laws. The Attorney General also oversees a staff of 900 people. Tonight on "Horizon," a debate featuring Republican candidates for Attorney General.

>>> Good evening, I'm Michael Grant. Welcome to "Horizon."

>>> Here's a brief look at the Republican candidates for Attorney General.

>>> John Greene is a partner in the law firm of Hahn, Howard and Greene. He is a former president of the Arizona State Sentate, and a former director of the Arizona Department of Insurance. Greene has lived in Arizona for 23 years. He is married with two children.

>>> Foster Robberson is a senior partner at Lewis & Roca. Robberson is a Superior Court Judge Pro Tem and a State Bar certified legal specialist. He has lived in Arizona for 23 years. Robberson is married with three children.

>>> Andrew Thomas is in private practice. He is a former state assistant attorney general. And former deputy counsel and policy advisor to the Governor. Thomas has lived in our state for 11 careers. He is married and has three children.

>>> The three candidates took part in a clean elections debate at the ASU college of law. Tim Delaney, founder of the Center for Leadership, Ethics 2 and Public Service, served as moderator. What follows are portions of that one-hour debate.

>> Moderator: The order in which the candidates will speak has been determined by a drawing of lottery prior to this debate. John Greene drew the first straw and so he will begin.

>> Candidate Greene: Thank you, Tim, and thank you to the Clean Elections Commission and ASU for holding this forum. It's a privilege to be here and it's an opportunity I'm glad to take. My name is John Greene. I'm running for Attorney General. I've served our state. I've been a lawyer for 30 years. I've been a state senator from District 24 and a senate president and the Director of the Department of Insurance. I'm looking for your support. I hope to convince you that it takes more than being just an accomplished lawyer to be a good Attorney General. You need to be a fighter and a leader. As the Goldwater Institute said I'm one of the fighters of the millennium for limiting government, econimic freedom and individual responsibility. So I'd like your trust and your vote. Thank you very much.

>> Moderator: Foster Robberson will go next.

>> Candidate Robberson: Thank you. The first priority for voters making a decision in this campaign for Attorney General is to elect the most qualified candidate. 3 The most qualified by experience, most qualified by perspective, and most qualified by temperament. I think tonight's debate will show that Foster Robberson is that most qualified candidate. Most qualified by experience, the only candidate with significant law firm experience. The Department of Law is a law firm. It's not just a state agency. I have the experience to manage that firm. Most qualified by perspective, the job of the Attorney General is to enforce and defend the laws, not to remake society with some radical social agenda and not to be used as a political stepping stone. Most qualified by temperament, we must elect an Attorney General who we can trust, who knows and respects the law, who respects people's differences and tells the truth. Foster Robberson is the most qualified candidate. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you.

>> Moderator: Finally, Andrew Thomas.

>> Candidate Thomas: Thank you to the Clean Elections Commission, ASU, and the State of Arizona -- the people of Arizona for making this debate possible. It is an honor to be seeking the Republican nomination for Attorney General. The Attorney General is the chief law enforcement officer of the State. As such, the people of Arizona have come to look to the Attorney General to be the 4 leader in the fight against crime and to have experience in fighting crime. I am the candidate in the Republican primary who has served in the Attorney General's Office and in the criminal justice system. I have also written widely on crime, have tried to think outside the box in how we tackle our crime problem. I have an agenda, a detailed clear and consistent agenda which has not swayed in the six months since I announced my candidacy. It focuses on fighting crime, getting sex offenders out of our neighborhoods and into the prison where they belong, and making sure the government is accountable to the people. I believe we need an Attorney General who reflects values and priorities in the people of Arizona in his agenda and experience and is qualified because of his experience. I would appreciate your vote.

>>> Moderator: Thank you, gentlemen. Now that we have the opening statements out of the way, we'll turn to the questions. Again, I will have the same question that each of you will get to answer. What role should the Attorney General play in setting public policy in Arizona?

>> Candidate Greene: Well, Tim, as you know, the Attorney General does not have a vote or a veto in the State. However, it has been the role of the Attorney General to have a major impact on policy. I think it's inappropriate for the Attorney General to go too 5 far afield of the issues that should be important to that office. It shouldn't be involved, for example, in trying to set social policies down at the legislature. Rather, it should be interested in its budget, how to provide better services to the State and to the citizens and certainly criminal justice issues. The Attorney General's Office has been politicized in the last several years and because of that, the State has suffered. The Office has not provided the kinds of services that directors of agencies, for example, would expect. I know that from personal experience, and I know it from talking to a lot of directors, and the executive department. I will be a full-time Attorney General. I will write opinions. I will practice preventative law. One of the last things I did when I was senate president was kill the first alternative fuels bill. As Attorney General, I will make sure that we work cooperatively with the legislature and the Governor to provide assistance, substantive assistance. We will not grandstand or try to make political points. We will use that office to better serve the people by cooperating with other branches.

>> Moderator: Foster, what role should the Attorney General play in setting public policy in Arizona?

>> Candidate Robberson: As I've traveled the State, I've tried to educate the population to 6 some extent and tell them mostly what this office does is represent the agency. The idea that it's somehow the lead law enforcement agency for crimes like child molesting, car thefts, things that my opponents have talked about, that's just a misperception of the job. So mostly what we do is implement the law and advise the agencies. But let's be real about this. You can't avoid having some involvement in setting policy. Ordering resources, resources are always scarce. That does have an impact on policy setting. When you do that, you need to be doing it from a legal perspective, bring objectivity to the position, the same position you would take going on the bench as a judge, I'm the only candidate who has judicial experience, serving 15 terms as a judge pro tem. I agree totally that we have to keep politics out of it. The best way to keep politics out of it is to not have the job occupied by a politician. John Greene is a politician. John was very political when he was in the state senate. We also need to not have someone who wants to go down and remake social policy. That's not the job of the Attorney General. We need to have someone who will keep his focus, keep his eye on the legal issues of the State and that's what I will do as attorney general.

>> Moderator: Andrew, what role should the Attorney General play in setting public policy in Arizona? 7

>> Candidate Thomas: The people of Arizona made it very clear that they expect the Attorney General as the State's chief law enforcement officer to lead the fight against crime. Now, some apparently, including Foster, might think that that is unreasonable, that the Attorney General should simply be focused on giving legal opinions and legal advice to state agencies, but the people of Arizona made it clear that they expect far more from the Attorney General than that. That's been a national trend since the surge in crime rates in the 1960s. People of the United States have looked to the Attorney General as the leaders in the fight against crime. They want to hold somebody accountable for the crime rates that have been chronically high since the upsurge in the '60s. I think that's perfectly reasonable and Foster's statement that he's been trying to educate the people of Arizona to the contrary is not only quite presumptuous, I think it's just wrong as a matter of merit. The Attorney General should be involved in policy making in the realm of criminal justice an the legal system. Those are areas that touch on the constitutional and statutory duties of the attorney general and I have laid out an agenda that I think reflects the priorities of Arizona in accomplishing that. Sure, we need to give legal advice. The Attorney General needs to give legal advice to state agencies, and I have done that, 8 I alone of the candidates have worked in the Attorney General's office and given legal advice on a daily basis in the state agency realm, and I would be experienced in continuing to do so as Attorney General.

>> Moderator: The next question is the Arizona Attorney General's Office is the largest law firm in the state. Foster, we'll begin with you. What specific skills do you have as compared to your opponents to ensure the quality of work performed by the State's largest law firm? >> Candidate Robberson: Well, I've touched on that, but to emphasize it, I -- that's what I've done for 23 years. The law firm I'm with right now, we have 130-something lawyers. We're not as big as the Department of Law, but it's one of the larger law firms. I have been involved in management, taking lead roles such as training provisions of our associates, involved in partnership decisions, one of the most important decisions in the law firm and in building legal teams. I'm not a hands-off person. I have a hands-on approach to the problems that come before me. I've built legal teams in litigation context, in regulatory context. That's what you do as Attorney General. The Attorney General obviously can't be the person who takes all of the cases to court or even does that primarily, but I do think it's appropriate to have some public role in some of the high profile cases before 9 the Court, like our current Attorney General Janet Napolitano has done. I also think that skills such as being involved in mediations, building consensus are important skills to bring to the office. I also want to take some of those talents that I've hopefully displayed in the private sector and bring them to the AG's office with things like peer review programs to make sure that the services are being provided with the highest quality, reordering the office to elevate victim services to a higher priority. Those are the kinds of things that I can do in this office and think we'll have a good effect for the people of Arizona.

>> Moderator: Andrew, what specific skills do you have to oversee the quality of work performed by the State's largest law firm?

>> Candidate Thomas: I think there is no substitute for experience in the State's largest law firm that you are referring to, Tim. There is no substitute for experience in the Attorney General's Office. The people of Arizona have been emphatic about that historically. If you look at the people who have been elected Attorney General, except for Bruce Babbitt who was a Democrat elected right after Watergate, every Attorney General in the recorded history of our State first served in the Attorney General's Office or in the criminal justice system before being elected. And so it's clear that the 10 people of Arizona recognize that that relevant experience in the law is what is necessary and it's essential to serve effectively in that job. There are other people, Foster and John have served very effectively in their respective roles as lawyers in the realm of tax and tort law. There is no question about that, but for this particular job, I just -- I think the people are clear -- have been clear. They've spoken. They want that experience. I alone have that. I have dealt with State agencies on a daily basis. I've given advice. I've gone and done criminal and civil work. I worked in the criminal justice system. At the Department of Corrections, I helped to fight back the U.S. Labor Department's outrageous attempt to force Arizona to pay its inmates the minimum wage for labor, a wonderful idea coming out of Washington. And I will continuing to bring that doggedness and commitment to the people of Arizona, to the Attorney General's office.

>> Moderator: John, what specific skills do you have as compared to your opponents to oversee the quality of work performed in the state's largest law firm?

>> Candidate Greene: I have more legal experience than these two guys combined. This fellow was in the AG's office for less than three years and he's talking about all of this experience he has. I don't know what committees 11 Foster was on in his law firm, but running a Christmas party committee is not the same as being the senate president. It's not the same as running a large state agency. It's not the same as writing a budget for every agency in the state. It is my experience that really sets me apart from these fellas. Not only that, you need to be more than just an experienced manager and a leader, and a -- an experienced manager and a person with public policy experience. You have to be a leader. I was a leader and a reformer when I was in the legislature. As senate president, I reduced the amount of sessions to 100 days or less, and I require that we have a 65-day budget so we wouldn't have vote trading at the end of the session. I eliminated midnight strikers. I also lead the way in fighting for women's rights and sponsoring domestic violence legislation and child support enforcement legislation and the first anti-stalking law in the state. And I was instrumental in revamping our Criminal Code to toughen it. That's the type of experience that folks need for the Attorney General, not folks that are amateurs at this.

>> Moderator: Thank you, gentlemen. This is a longer question. The Attorney General is sometimes referred to as the state's "top cop", yet the vast majority of the work relates to civil matters on issues as diverse as advice to state 12 agencies, child support enforcement, civil rights, consumer protection, education law, environmental and natural resource law, Indian gaming, liability defense, transportation and so much more. What experience do you have as contrasted to your opponents to oversee such a diverse range of civil matters, and which civil matters will you emphasize, and which ones will you de-emphasize. John, I think this one is to you.

>> Candidate Green: Thank you, Tim. That's a doozy of a question and requires a lot of thought. Certainly we're going to emphasize the issues that are on people's minds today like corporate greed. The State Grand Jury has not been used to its -- properly, in my opinion, or to its proper extent in many years, not since the days of Bob Corbin. I'm very concerned about Child Protective Services, and I have some suggestions for the legislature on how to deal with some of these tragedies that occur. Very quickly, more openness, a change in the law to make it clear that children are -- and their welfare are the number one concern, not family reunification. And hiring professional investigators to handle those cases. I'm also interested in continuing actually the good work of Janet Napolitano in terms of reducing the child dependency cases and working hard at the domestic child 13 support enforcement cases. I think because of the challenges we're going to have with the increase in our population and the aging of our population, senior exploitation is a concern. With the development, I'm very concerned about our water and our environment, and we're going to beef up the environmental section to deal with that and we could go on and on and on, because there are a lot of challenges, particularly because of 9/11 and the diversion of federal law enforcement resources. Sorry.

>> Moderator: Foster, in terms of all of these different civil matters, what experience do you have as contrasted to your opponents to oversee such a diverse range of civil matters and which will you emphasize or de-emphasize?

>> Candidate Robberson: I wish I could have written faster to write down all of the ones you mentioned, but to put it in legal terms, I have gobs and gobs and gobs of experience in many of these areas. Consumer protection, I've been involved in cases involving lemon laws for cars and anti-racketeering cases. Tort law, my opponents like to call me a tort lawyer. I am an expert in tort law. I have experience defending institutions, defending hospitals, doctors, representing crime victims in that context. Employment law. I've had EEOC experiences in cases with EEOC, employment cases. My forte has been civil 14 litigation for 23 years. I did a computer search -- and some of the law students here may appreciate this. I did a computer search several months ago to look at the experience of all of the candidates running for attorney general, and asked the question how many times had they been lead attorney in any appellate case, anywhere in the country for any Supreme Court, any circuit Court of Appeals, any appellate court, including the Arizona courts. The other candidates, these two gentlemen, as well as Terry Goddard, had a grand total of zero. They've never been there, never done that. I've done that 11 or 12 times. As far as emphasis, I like the idea that in Arizona, when people feel like they've been ripped off by a bad guy, they think call the attorney general. I want to keep that consumer fraud emphasis. I want to make it a place that protects our most vulnerable, children, et cetera. the sign says stop, so I'll say et cetera.

>> Moderator: Andrew, what experience do you have as contrasted to your opponents and which civil matters will you emphasize or de-emphasize?

>> Candidate Thomas: I have civil experience within the Attorney General's Office as well as within the private sector. In the Attorney General's Office, I handled a diverse array of matters from criminal to civil matters, from felony criminal matters to civil 15 actions. I had the first -- I oversaw and prosecuted the first successful prosecution under the Native Plant Act, the first time the Native Plant Act was enforced and some teeth was put into it. I also have done pesticide prosecutions. These are civil prosecutions but we need to understand that's a lot of what the Attorney General does, it's not just giving opinion on civil legal matters. It's going to court and fighting bad guys, as it were, in the civil sector, and I've got the largest state fine or largest fine in state history for pesticide violation and that involved the dousing of pesticides of five migrant farm workers in Casa Grande. They were medevacked into Phoenix, it was such a severe case. I've represented the Department of Agriculture, I'm sensitive to the needs of rural Arizona because of my background. I should point out the Attorney General does not do trials. The Attorney General almost never does oral arguments. But what the Attorney General does do is provide civil enforcement actions, and I think the Consumer Fraud Division in particular is an area that needs to be beefed up in terms of priorities, Tim, and I've heard complaints throughout Arizona in terms of the unresponsiveness of the Consumer Fraud Section and I would beef it up.

>> Moderator: A new set of questions. This is going to start with Foster. The Arizona Attorney General 16 oversees prosecution over criminal law matters, including the bulk of all criminal appeals in Arizona. What is your position with respect to the death penalty, and what types of criminal law matters would you emphasize or de-emphasize?

>> Candidate Robberson: My position on the death penalty is that I support the death penalty in appropriate cases. I think that that's going to be one of the huge challenges before our next Attorney General which is unraveling the new law and the new system. I'm particularly concerned how under our new statute which was passed in response to the Ring decision. I'm concerned with how we treat victims. I think it's important that victims rights continue to be respected. It's a constitutional provision. I think we have all of the rights we need in the Victims Bill of Rights and our state constitution, but implementing them and enforcing them is a different matter and that'll be a priority. I also want to make sure that we can put more resources into the front end of the process so that we get it right the first time and eventually cut down on the appeals. That's the post conviction petitions. That will be a long process because of the new statute, we have to work our way through that. One of the things that I want to continue to emphasize is drugs. You know, when you have multiple 17 county problems like drug rings, gangs that are running drugs, that is an AG issue. And I think one of the particularly insidious problems we have in our state now is some of the new synthetic drugs, methamphetamine comes to mind. Methamphetamine destroys young lives and destroys the environment. The dumps, the houses that are used for manufacturing them are put out of circulation and can be dangerous for decades and decades to come. I'll keep emphasizing that.

>> Moderator: Andrew, what's your position with respect to the death penalty? What types of criminal law cases would you emphasize or de-emphasize?

>> Candidate Thomas: I strongly support the death penalty. It is a very serious legal and moral matter. In the course of discharging my duties for the State of Arizona, I have had the occasion to witness five executions. The death penalty is not some abstract matter to me. It needs to be dealt with with the utmost seriousness. I do support it very strongly in the cases of certain heinous murders. I think that justice requires that that penalty be available for a jury now in Arizona, given the recent legal changes to implement. I have -- I do believe that in terms of the problem we have with the death penalty really in Arizona right now is that there are significant delays. Right now on average it takes over 17 years from the handing 18 down of the death sentence to the final fulfillment of that sentence. That is far too long. It is a mockery of justice. Often the victims pass away, the survivors of those crimes, before justice is served. I have offered a plan to deal with government officials who have thwarted the death penalty in Arizona, the Arizona Supreme Court overturned part of the Victims Bill of Rights which shortened these indefinite appeals, death row appeals. The Supreme Court struck that down. I have a plan to prevent that from happening further, and I think that we're going to need to address that problem if the death penalty is to be a meaningful deterrent in Arizona.

>> Moderator: John, what's your position with respect to the death penalty, what types of criminal law cases would you emphasize or de-emphasize?

>> Candidate Greene: I strongly support the death penalty. I've been invited to executions, but for the life of me, I don't know why anyone would want to go to more than one. It's not a pretty sight, obviously. I support the legislature and their quick action to deal with the Ring case. The Attorney General's Office will be tested. There will be lots of appeals for two reasons, one because the jury is going to decide what the penalty is and when we start to get hung juries on these issues, there will be issues about when you stop. Also, those people on death row 19 whose direct appeals have been exhausted are not eligible for any further relief under that law, and I suspect that there will be defense lawyers testing that. So we'll have to beef up the criminal appeals section of that office and fortunately, that's one of the best areas in the office and has been for many years. I will use the State Grand Jury the way Bob Corbin did. I want to go after white collar crime. I also want to go after public corruption. We've heard a lot of stories about things going on in the State, and I'm not just going to ignore it like certain attorney generals have in the past. We're drowning in drugs in this state, particularly in rural Arizona. I was in Mohave county just this weekend talking to the county attorney up there, and they are obviously a focal point in Bullhead City for professional meth labs because it is a hub for transportation. We need to start to get tough with that. I'm going to work with ACJC and other law enforcement agencies to do something about that.

>> Moderator: Pursuant to an earlier lottery, we will be doing the closing statements in the following order. Foster Robberson, Andrew Thomas and John Greene. So Foster, we'll start with you.

>> Candidate Robberson: Let me just thank you all for coming and for staying and just say in this quick amount of time we have allotted that the last time 20 I was in this hall that I can recall, I was standing the other way. I was with my back to you facing this direction because I was arguing to the Arizona Supreme Court when they had one of their sessions here in the great hall. That's relevant, because to me it speaks about experience. It speaks about someone who has been there and done that. I disagree with those who say that the job of the attorney general is not to be a lawyer. They want to say the job of the attorney general is to be an administrator only. Obviously there are administrative tasks. There are political tasks, but it is a special state agency. It's a law firm. You lead lawyers. You put together legal teams. You answer legal questions. You need an attorney and an excellent attorney for that. I have those credentials. I have those qualifications. I will go to court. I will go before the 9th Circuit, before the Arizona Supreme Court, before judges in high profile cases. I will be involved in writing opinions. I'll be involved in approving settlements. I'll be there. I'll be a real attorney for the people of Arizona.

>> Moderator: Thank you. Andrew, you're next.

>> Candidate Thomas: I want to thank the people of Arizona again and the people who are here to join us this evening regarding -- to visit and hear this exchange of views. 21 I believe that the attorney general needs to have experience in the Attorney General's Office. Needs to have a vision and an agenda for the office when focused on fighting crime. I have that agenda. There was a time not so long ago when our streets were safer and our families were intact and our government was under the rule of law. I'm 35 years old, and that America is an America I've never known, but in many ways, it is an America that deserves to be restored. And I believe there is no better place to begin that process of making our streets safer, our government more accountable, our society more firm and intact and our communities more engaged than right here in Arizona. Thank you.

>> Moderator: John, you have one minute.

>> Candidate Greene: Tim, thanks for doing such a great job in this Clean Elections Commission. Thank you for this opportunity. I, too, have once appeared in this hall, but not before the august body of the State Supreme Court. I was asked by Dean Morgan a few years ago to address the faculty and the students here and talk about issues at the legislature that were important to lawyers. I am running because I want to continue to make a difference for the State of Arizona. I have a record of leadership. I have a record of accomplishment. I have a record of being a leader. I want to continue that in the 22 Attorney General's Office. I intend to be the Attorney General for all of the people in the state, not just one particular group or another. I plan to depoliticize that office, and I plan to make changes in that office so that people in that state are best served by the Attorney General. I ask for your support. Thank you so much for your attention.

>> Michael: If you missed any portion of this debate or would like to watch others that aired on "Horizon," please visit the Channel 8 Web site. The address is www.kaet.asu.edu. Click on "Horizon." You'll find our schedule of election coverage, transcripts of debates and video of debates for statewide office. Tomorrow night on "Horizon," candidates for Congressional District 2, representing the northwest valley, give their pitches for office. Thank you very much for joining us this evening. I'm Michael Grant. Have a good one. Good night.