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September 12, 2002

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
An update on the Arizona Cardinal's stadium
In-Studio Guests:
Jessica Funkhouser, Karen Osborne;
Barrett Marson, East Valley Tribune newspaper

>> Michael: Tonight on "Horizon" the election was over two days ago but not for those still counting early and question ballots. We'll talk to state and county elections officials about. That and today was the deadline for the T.S.A. to have the Cardinals deal done. The agency says it met that deadline with the Glendale stadium site. Good evening, I'm Michael Grant. Before we get to our main topics this brief headline: Criminal indictments against five former baptist foundation officials have been tossed out. The Supreme Court judge Frank Galati ruled that some of the evidence was prejudicial and improper. State attorney general Janet Napolitano says her office will pursue new indictments. Polling places closed 48 hours ago but the job of counting early and question ballots still has a few more days to go. Those battles are being counting right now. Here to tell us more about the process is Jessica Funkhouser and Karen Osbourne. Both of you survived Tuesday. That's always a good -

>> we did.

>> Michael: I survived it, too, but it's a lot easier than it used to be. I used to be hanging around 2:30, 3:00 in the morning, But I get home at a descent hour. It's great. Computers are wonderful.

>> Karen Osbourne: Get some sleep.

>> Michael: Karen, let's start with, we're talking roughly 30,000 ballots that are in these two categories. Explain the two categories that they are in and how much of that total bucket is in each of those subcategories.

>> Karen Osbourne: We have 30,000 left to be tabulated. 22,500 are early ballots these are ballots that came in the mail on election day and the ones dropped off at polling places. The remaineder of the ballots are to be verified.

>> Michael: The ballots to be verified and that involves what?

>> Karen Osbourne: That's the more time consuming of the two. Ballots to be verified comes from people who have moved and haven't updated their address. You do have to vote in the right polling place for your new location. So they voted a ballot to be verified. We're not like Florida because you can vote a ballot. We put it in an envelope and seal it and put your information at the top and we make sure you're a registered voter in Maricopa County and we make certain it's your signature and you're at the right pooling place.

>> Michael: Part of that verification process concern is also verifying that the person didn't vote at their old locale?

>> Karen Osbourne: make sure -- yes, we do scan in all the registers, signature rosters have been scanned in. We go back and look at the piece of paper to see if you signed in at your old polling place.

>> Michael: From a statewide perspective, Jessica each of 15 counties going through the same process in various numbers?

>>Jessica Funkhouser: All the counties have early ballots and balloted to be verified, to check, and they have five business days to do. That it's a whole week after the election is over in the polling places. It's not really over until everything is checked.

>> Michael: On the other hand, though, the deadlines and understandably so because you have tee it up for the general election, you have to figure out who is on the ballot, those kinds of things have very tight. This process has to be completed by next Tuesday so that process -- why not back this up? Why not say listen fine for to you vote early but if you want to do that get it in by Friday of the preceding week?

>>Jessica Funkhouser: My concern about that would be -- changing the rules is difficult. You'll disen franchise some voters. They are used to having the ability to turn the early ballot in on Wendnesday. If we cut them off, that's still going to we a lot of ballot it's to be checked. Those people would have the option to vote the provisional option or ballot to beer haveified, which is the more time consuming process. If we change the rules people hang on the early ballot and Karen Osbourne and the other county election directors are still in the same pot only worse.

>> Michael: It's thering the 22,000 turned in on election day that's a fairly substantial part of total number of early ballots voted, correct?

>> Karen Osbourne:It is. We had 167,000 requested and of the 132,000 returned it's a substantial part.

>> Michael: So 22,000 of those you figure about one and six people were waiting until election day to turn their ballot in. It does strike me as some what peculiar in that one of the reasons I would associate with early voting would be not having to travel to the polling place. Are these people just forgot or whatever?

>> Karen Osbourne: the difference on the -- having to travel to the polling place with the early ballot, dropping it off on election day you can drop it off at any polling place. If on your way to work you pass a polling place that happens to be there you can just drop it off at any polling place. That seems to help. In some cases they made up their mind a week ago and they still have it on the table and in some cases people just wanted to wait.

>> Michael: Now, Will you make the Tuesday deadline?

>> Karen Osbourne: Maricopa County will make the Tuesday deadline.

>> Michael: There are a lot of people chewing their fingernails over this process because we had a couple in Maricopa County we had at least two races that are quite slim and if they stayed -- if I recall correctly, I think that the vote differential between was only 13 votes and the. If it remains blow 50 in a legislative districts will a recount?

>> yes.

>> Michael: That automatic?

>> Jessica Funkhouser: It's automatic in the sense that nobody has request it. When the Secretary of State returns the canvas on September 23rd immediately in the afternoon if there any races closer than 50 votes apart in legislative or in the case of statewide it's 20. We'll have a statewide recount in the libertarian vote for governor. our attorneys have to go to Supreme Court certifying the need for the recount. We go out and recount the ballots in the race in question.

>> Michael Grant: Does the recount process still make a lot of sense when you have -- I want to talk now about Chads and punch cards. Let's stick with Maricopa County where you had the nice little line here and the machine counting it. If I made a mistake the machine tells me immediating and as me if I want to go ahead and cast the defective ballot. Does the recount make as much sense as it used to when we had hand process and Xs?

>> Jessica Funkhouser: It should come out exactly the same. It does reassure the candidates there office in mistake. If it comes out the same with the same winner it's a reassuring thing for the candidates and their supporters. When they say it's close, are you sure you didn't make a mistake? In that sense it makes some sense. If we do a statewide one or a legislative race that crosses county lines we still have punch cards in Arizona. I have been involved in one punch card retab. At the end of whole thing there was an extra vote in there. We saw a Chad fly out the machine.

>> Michael: I don't know if we touched on it or not there's a legislative race that's close in Pima county.

>> IT's Pima and Penal that legislative district crosses those two county lines and if it stays within fifty they'll be recounts in both those counties.

>>Michael: Focusing on the legislative district 11 race. Of this 30,000 you don't know how much of -- how many of those are in legislative district 11, right?

>> Karen Osbourne: I know we have our universe for Maricopa County and that's 30,000 but I don't know which ones are in which district. By the time we separate those we could be finally counted.

>> Michael: Now, how time consuming is a recount process on a legislative direct in it involves running the ballots same through the same machine?

>> Karen Osbourne: the time that is involved is every day every minute is precious to us after we finish the primary because we do have the ballots printed for the general. And it takes three weeks for us to print those and we have to be ready on October 3. Any moments we spend is very precious time but it does take a lot of time to do a recount. It's like recreating the race a little bit. When we present it to the Secretary of State's office Jessica can look and see we followed the proses is.

>> Michael: You mentioned the Libertarian gubernatorial recount. What would be the process there?

>> Jessica Funkhouser: Every county would have to run their ballots and count the votes for that for the libertarian ballots for that race. We have the ability to delegate our authority and supervise it from Headquarters and we would probably do that just in the interest of time rather than trying to go to 15 counties.

>> Michael: What do you think you'll be through with the process?

>> Karen Osbourne: Monday.

>> Michael: Probably have you back on Monday. Karen Osbourne thank you for joining us.

>> thank you.

>> Michael: Jessica Funkhouser we appreciate your input as well.

Jessica Funkhouser: Always a pleasure Michael.

Michael Grant: Today is the deadline for the T.S.A. to deliver a Cardinals stadium deal to the state. The T.S.A. said they had the deal signed sealed and delivered as Stevie Wonder would say, over a week before today, thus avoiding a November election on it's future. We'll talk to a local reporter who is keeping tabs on the stadium saga, but first Mike Sauceda tells us more about the Glendale site.

>> Reporter: Construction underway for a new coyotes arena which has begun and finally a place for Cardinals to call home. The cards will roost just south of the coyotes on a 500-acre site.

>> Ed Beasely: when people start to see it occur, it's starting to occur out there and the the development that has taken place. The unique aspect of having two class A facilities next to each other is there will be nothing like it in not only the southwest but probably had the western part of United States.

>> Mike Sauceda: The Cardinals portion of site will be 216 acres, it will have 20,000 parking spaces, 1.6 million square feet of retail and entertainment and development access through the Loop 101. There will be a four dollar a ticket surcharge. A community facilities district will be created to spend $48 million dollars on on and off site improvements and a large turf area for youth sports. The Cardinals contribution to the site?

>> Ed Beasely: It's roughly $23 million and that's for the take down of the land. The Cardinals have a huge investment in this project. Now and being involved in the cost, there should be cost exceedants within the project. It's close to $125, $130 million.

>> Mike Sauceda: He estimates the money won't come back to the city.

>> Ed Beasely: the city of Glendale's cost are minimal. Those who get the revenue are those who put the money in. We get a destination point. We want to grow the area. There will be a sales tax generated outside of that site.

>> Reporter: Ted ferris president and C.E.O. of it is say says it's a relief to have one picked. He said they met the state-mandated deadline to have a deal wrapped up.

>>Ted Ferris: On Tuesday the third we delivered to the governor and the attorney general four documents that satisfy the requirements of statute with respect to the Glendale site.

>> Mike Sauceda: He says there's still a big hurdle that could block the stadium and that say lawsuit claiming the T.S.A. is unconstitutional.

>> Ted Ferris: When you have a lawsuit still out there that questions whether or not the governmental entity is a constitutional body you can't expect people to buy paper the bonds we would issue to finance the construction.

>> Mike Sauceda: Another possible hang up just yesterday a Glendale activity announced a petition to gather signatures to put the stadium on the ballot. City attorney said a contract between the city and the T.S.A. is not referrible. The it is yeah's work will continue.

>> Ted Ferris: the work now going forward is that kind of work that is perhaps rather boring and behind the scenes of siting the facility precisely on the land, determining where the utilities are placed, determining where the parking is and where the ramps are that bring the people into the facility, and so on and so forth.

>> Michael Grant: With me now to tell us the latest is tribune reporter Barrett Marson. You were telling me there wasn't a lot, Given all that has gone there, there wasn't a lot the T.S.A. had to do in terms of buttoning down the last detail and providing proof that no you don't have to go to a vote in the general election.

>> Barret Marson:L the legislation simply said, "deliver." That's exactly what they did. They got receipts from the governor's office and attorney general's office that they delivered it. That met their burden with minimal cost to T.S.A. for the materials the county has to use.

>> Michael: Given all the twists and turns that this thing has taken I've got to ask you is anybody making any argument that you needed to deliver five documents not four documents or whatever?

>> Barrett Marson: no one so far is making that argument. It seems that the T.S.A. probably did this correctly though, as your piece noted, there's a possible referendum out there that could stall them. That aside, they don't have to worry that as far as going back to the voters. They are now safe.

>> Michael: Let's stick with the referendum question. A lot of questions about whether or not what Glendale did is referrable to the voters in Glendale, right?

>> Barett Marson: Glendale believes that it's fine. They only did administrative acts. They didn't do a legislative act. Tim weaver, who is leading the effort, believes differently and this, like everything else, will wind up in the courts. 1,300 signatures is not a high threshold. We saw Mesa get 17,000. There isn't as much of an anti-Cardinal feeling in Glendale but it's not a high amount to gather. The judge will determine whether this was something that was referrable or not.

>> Michael: So it will take up that issue up, we don't have to get into the details. In effect are they attempting to, for example, refer the vote where the Glendale city council said, if I recall correctly, to its city manager or whoever its officer was you are authorized to sign those documents? Is that essentially what they are trying -

>> Barett Marson: the resolutions that authorized the deal. They are claiming the resolution that authorizes the deal all the deals with Cardianls and the T.S.A. is a legislative act by the city council.

>> Michael: In contrast, in Mesa, the council there had to take a legislative act involving the bonds that were necessary?

>> Barett Marson: the selling of the bonds. There is some question from the attorney that was working with the opposition group as to whether there understanding was referrable. The city said no but they said the bonds are. The attorney decided they are giving me this and I'm not giving up on the whole deal.Just because they say it's a legislative act, doesn't mean it's a legislative act. But Alan Kauffman is not working with this Glendale group.

>> Michael: Okay. Now, let's move on to uncertainty number two. The court of appeals has ruled against him on his challenge to the T.S.A. Is he in the process, or his attorneys, I guess more accurately, of planning on filing a petition for review to the Supreme Court?

>> Barett Marson: eventually they will. First, they are asking for reconsideration from the appeals court. Another great time-wasting effort here. It seems, if anything, this will delay the entire stadium process for months, but he says that, you know, the court of appeals did rule that a portion of the funding couldn't be dedicated to the stadium -- paying off the stadium bonds. And he says, the court of appeals struck that out-- Struck that part of the law out. He says you found part of the law unconstitutional. It should go back to the legislature and the voters. He is asking for a review on that. He has indicated he will, if he loses there, he will go to the Supreme Court.

>> Michael: The complication again even if he does lose, you already indicated as much, with this uncertainty hanging they are not comfortable finally issuing the bonds.

>> Barett Marson: it's not a question of comfort. No one would buy the bonds with this hanging out their head and lose funding. They can't settle bounds. We're looking at another three or four months of delay if that makes it to the Supreme Court.

>> Michael: City of Mesa voted on Tuesday. Not surprisingly, The last number was about 57% 43%.

>> Barett Marson: It lost by 5,000 votes. You could almost say it was a win for the pro-stadium people. 5,000 votes is not a lot when they are not voting on anything. If they were able to mount the campaign they probably would have had a good shot.

>> Michael: Much significance to that with the deal finalized with Glendale. I suppose something could happen but they don't really need a back-up site?

>> Barett Marson: they don't need a back-up but Mesa says if Glendale were to fall by the wayside, Mesa wouldn't get back in it because they have heard the residents that they don't want the stadium for a third time, and so that is where -- that's the only significance that vote has.

>> Michael: Barrett, tell me what the financial details on this. I read a couple of stories on, you know, what the T.S.A. is covering what the Cardinals are covering in terms ever stadium cost and I'm not sure I have real clear feel on this.

>> Barett Marson: voters were told two years ago now, maybe more than that that it would be a $331 million stadium. They increased that do $350. They say it will be $355.3 million dollars. They say they'll only pay the $221 million and the Cardinals will pick up the gap, between 331 and 335, unless the T.S.A. can sell more than $331 million in bonds. The figure based on its estimates of revenue $331 is how much it can sell. If however, it can sell more optimistic projections, they could sell $340, they'll do that but the Cardinals will still be kicking in more money because it will be on a 75/25 split. Whatever the T.S.A. can sell still the Cardinals will be kicking in more money.

>> Michael Grantthe revenues the T.S.A. looking at the revenues from the car rental tax, hotels.

>> Barett Marson: car rental, hotel, player income, and I think that's it.

>> Michael: I think that's about it. Now the $4 ticket surcharge that will be used to pay back some of the infrastructure costs?

>> Barett Marson: the parking, all that stuff. Every site needed the parking, sewers, the water lines, electric lines, all that stuff, that will be paid for by the $4. Fans who attend concerts or go see the pope, if the pope were to come there, they'll by the ticket charge. The Cardinals could get part of that money. They bought the land for $20 some odd million and they have put in some money as a back-up to the bonds for Glendale. And so they will get their money back only after the community facilities, only after it gets repaid.

>> Michael: Barrett Marson, we appreciate the update. Maybe getting to the end of this, we'll see. Join us again tomorrow for the "Horizon" journalists roundtable. They'll talk about primary election results including the governor's race between Democrat Janet Napolitano and Republican Matt Salmon. We'll talk about surprises in the congressional races and the loss of several incumbents in the legislature. Thanks for joining us this evening. I'm Michael Grant. Have a Good night.