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transcripts
Transcripts
October 7, 2002
Host: Michael
Grant
Topics:
A discussion on "serious juvenile offenders;" the legacy
of Frank Lloyd Wright
In-Studio Guests:
Dennis Pickering, Chairman of the Arizona Comission on Juvenile
Justice;
Edward Mulvey, Professor at the Western Psychiatric Institute
and Clinic at the University of Pittsburg;
>> MICHAEL: TONIGHT ON HORIZON... WHY POLICY EXPERTS RECOMMEND
ARIZONA'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM SHOULD IMPROVE THE WAY IT DEALS
WITH PROBLEM KIDS... GOOD EVENING I'M MICHAEL GRANT. WELCOME TO
HORIZON. SIX YEARS AGO VOTERS ARIZONA PASSED PROPOSITION 102,
THE STOP JUVENILE CRIME INITIATIVE. THAT BALLOT MEASURE REQUIRED
THE AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF VIOLENT AND CHRONIC JUVENILE OFFENDERS
TO ADULT COURT. SINCE THE LAW WENT INTO EFFECT, MORE THAN 4,000
TEENS HAVE BEEN TRIED AS ADULTS. RESEARCH SHOWS THE "GET TOUGH"
APPROACH IS NOT WORKING ON KIDS CALLED SERIOUS JUVENILE OFFENDERS.
AS PAUL ATKINSON REPORTS, THOSE IN AND OUTSIDE THE JUSTICE SYSTEM
SAY CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE.
>>PAUL ATKINSON: ABOUT A THOUSAND KIDS A YEAR ARE SENT TO THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUVENILE CORRECTIONS. THOSE MOST STAY OUT OF TROUBLE
UPON RELEASE, THE LATEST STATISTICS SHOW SOME 43% ARE RETURNED
TO CUSTODY WITHIN THREE YEARS.
>>DAVID GASPAR: IF YOU CAN WORK WITH A YOUNG PERSON TO THE EARLY
20S, YOU CAN SEE GAINS. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE IN
THIS AGENCY, IS THAT KIDS LEAVE US AT 18. AND THERE ARE A LOT
OF OUR STAFF WHO WOULD SAY, WHO SAY TO ME REGULARLY, I WISH WE
COULD STAY IN TOUCH WITH THIS KID BECAUSE SOME GOOD THINGS ARE
GOING TO HAPPEN IF HE HAS THE SUPPORT SYSTEMS.
>>PAUL ATKINSON: A RECENT STUDY IN FLORIDA FOUND KIDS IN SENTENCED
IN ADULT COURT ARE MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT A CRIME THAN COUNTERPARTS
IN THE JUVENILE SYSTEM.
>>JACQUE STEINER: I THINK IT'S A RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO, TO
LOOK AT, ARE THESE KIDS TO GO TO THE ADULT SYSTEM? ONCE THEY GET
THERE, ARE THEY GETTING SERVICES THEY NEED? ONCE THEY COME OUT,
ARE THEY GOING TO BE BETTER OFF OR MAYBE WITH A FEW CASES IF THEY
WERE ADDRESSED, COULD THE PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED IN THE
JUVENILE SYSTEM?
>> PAUL ATKINSON: CONFOUNDING THE ISSUE IS THE OVERREPRESENTATION
OF HISPANICS AND BLACK JUVENILES IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM. HISPANICS
MAKE UP OVER 50%, BLACKS 10%, DOUBLE THE PERCENTAGES OF THE YOUTH
POPULATION.
>>RON CARPIO: WHAT IT POINTS OUT IS THAT KIDS OF COLOR TEND TO
BE MORE CRIMINAL. THAT'S A PROBLEM. THAT IS NOT TRUE. THE CONTROVERSIAL
ANSWER IS THAT WE PRETEND, THAT WE BELIEVE WE'RE COLOR BLIND,
AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE TRUTH.
>>David Gaspar: THE NUMBER OF KID WHO ARE MINORITY KIDS IN OUR
SYSTEM CLEARLY ARE DISPROPORTIONATE TO THE PERCENTAGE OF MINORITY
KIDS IN ARIZONA AND ANY COMMUNITY, ANY STATE, ANY CIVILIZATION
THAT I THINK MANAGES YOUNG PEOPLE THAT TAKES A DISPROPORTIONATE
NUMBER OF A RACE OF YOUNG PEOPLE INTO A SYSTEM LIKE OURS IS NOT
A FAIR SYSTEM.
>> Paul Atkinson: A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO KIDS NOT GETTING OUT
OF THE SYSTEM ARE THE LACK OF SERVICES.
>>Jacque Steiner: I THINK THERE IS A GROWING CONCERN, PARTICULARLY
AS MONEY GETS TIGHTER IS A FACTOR. WHEN YOU DECIDE WHAT KIND OF
PROGRAMS ARE NEEDED. YOU BEGIN TO FOCUS IN ON THE REPEAT, MORE
EXPENSIVE, MORE FRIGHTENING SECTION OF THE JUVENILE POPULATION
THAT COMMITS CRIMES.
>>Paul Atkinson: THE PROBLEM WITH SERIOUS JUVENILE CRIME HAS
NOT GONE UNNOTICED. MORE THAN 120 PROFESSIONALS, JUDGES, ATTORNEYS,
COMMUNITY LEADERS AND JUVENILE JUSTICE EXPERTS MET IN PRESCOTT
IN AUGUST TO DEVELOP A STRATEGY TO COMBAT THIS AND IMPROVE THE
SYSTEM AND KEEP THESE KIDS OUT OF TROUBLE.
>> Jacque Steiner: THERE IS A GROWING, DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE
STATEWIDE, PEOPLE THAT ARE CLOSE TO THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM,
CITIZENS WHO ARE LOOKING AT THE YOUTHS AND SAYING, IS THIS THE
BEST WE CAN DO?
>> Paul Atkinson: THE FEAR IS IF NOTHING IS DONE, THE COST MAY
BE GREATER.
>> David Gaspar: WE CONTINUE TO HAVE A SYSTEM THAT PRACTICES
IN A LIMITED FASHION. WE CONTINUE TO HAVE KIDS THAT MIGHT HAVE
A FUTURE. MIGHT BE TAXPAYERS WRITTEN OFF.
>> MICHAEL: JOINING ME IS PROFESSOR EDWARD MULVEY, A PROFESSOR
AT THE WESTERN PSYCHIATRIC INSTITUTE AND CLINIC AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF PITTSBURG. PROFESSOR MULVEY AUTHORED A RECENT REPORT ON JUVENILE
CRIME IN OUR STATE. ALSO HERE IS DENNIS PICKERING, THE CHAIRMAN
OF THE ARIZONA COMMISSION ON JUVENILE JUSTICE. GOOD TO SEE BOTH
OF YOU. DENNIS, TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SYMPOSIUM, WHO
ATTENDED, WHAT WAS ITS FUNCTION?
>> Dennis Pickering: WE MET IN PRESCOTT MID TO LATE AUGUST. WE
INVITED NOT ONLY EXPERTS IN THE JUVENILE JUSTICE FIELD BUT EXPERTS
AND POLICY MAKERS IN RELATED CHILD AREAS SUCH AS DES, THE SCHOOLS,
MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEMS. WE INVITED PEOPLE NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED
IN THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM, PEOPLE THAT ARE INVOLVED IN CHILD
ADVOCACY EFFORTS. AND WE ARE -- LET ME TAKE A BREAK AND SAY, WHEN
I SAY "WE", THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICE OF THE SUPREME COURT, THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUVENILE CORRECTIONS AND THE COMMISSION JOINTLY
SPONSORED THE SYMPOSIUM. WE WANTED TO ASK THOSE DIRECTLY INVOLVED,
AS WELL AS THOSE IN THE GREATER KIND OF RELATED PARTS TO JUVENILE
JUSTICE, JUST EXACTLY HOW THEY THOUGHT OUR JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM
SHOULD LOOK, WHAT THEY THOUGHT OF THE CURRENT POLICIES, CURRENT
LAW, CURRENT OUTCOMES AND WHAT WE COULD DO TO IMPROVE. WE MET
WITH 120 PROFESSIONALS FOR TWO DAYS IN PRESCOTT AND CAME UP WITH
WHAT WE THINK IS A BROAD SIX-POINT PLAN TO CONSIDER IMPROVING
THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM.
>> MICHAEL: ED, LET ME DRAW YOU INTO THE CONVERSATION. YOU HAVE
TAKEN A LOOK AT ARIZONA'S SYSTEM. NUMBER ONE, IS IT POSSIBLE TO
DO COMPARISONS AS TO HOW WELL OR HOW POORLY ARIZONA HANDLES THIS
IN CONTRAST TO HERE FILL IN THE BLANK, BUT OTHER STATES NATIONWIDE?
>> Edward Mulvey: WE HAVE NOT REALLY DONE AN ANALYSIS OF THE
ARIZONA SYSTEM. I DON'T WANT TO PORTRAY US AS HAVING DONE THAT.
AND ARIZONA I THINK IS IN THE SAME BOAT THAT A LOT OF OTHER STATES
ARE, THAT IS THAT THE VIOLENT, SERIOUS, DEEP-END OFFENDERS ARE
VERY TOUGH KIDS TO HANDLE. EACH STATE HAS DEVELOPED THEIR SYSTEM
SORT OF AS A HOMEGROWN PRODUCT. YOU CAN LOOK AT NUMBERS OF KIDS
THAT GET PROCESSED AND TYPES OF LEGISLATION IN THE DIFFERENT STATES,
BUT ARIZONA'S CRIME RATE AMONG THESE KIDS MIRRORS THE REST OF
THE COUNTRY. THE PATTERNS OF THOSE OFFENSES ARE ABOUT THE SAME
AS THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, AS WELL.
>> MICHAEL: SOME BASIC QUESTIONS. GENERALLY, IS THE JUVENILE
CRIME RATE GOING UP, DOWN OR FLAT?
>> Edward Mulvey: IT'S BEEN GOING DOWN, PROBABLY FOR ABOUT THE
LAST SEVEN YEARS. AND APPRECIABLY GOING DOWN. ALL OF CRIME GENERALLY
HAS BEEN GOING DOWN. THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE BLIP IN THE LAST YEAR'S
REPORTING, A CERTAIN RISE IN CERTAIN OFFENSES. WE ARE IN A MUCH
BETTER PLACE THAN IN '93, '94 AND '95 IN TERMS OF CRIME RATE.
>> MICHAEL: IS THAT ACROSS THE BOARD OR ARE THERE, FOR EXAMPLE,
SERIOUS CRIMES?
>>Edward Mulvey: EVEN JUVENILE INVOLVEMENT IN SERIOUS CRIMES
HAS GONE DOWN, PRETTY MUCH ACROSS THE BOARD.
>> MICHAEL: SIX YEARS AGO OR SO WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE PROPOSITION,
ARIZONA TOOK A MUCH HARDER VIEW OF HOW TO DEAL WITH CERTAIN JUVENILE
OFFENDERS, GENERALLY SAYING CERTAIN CRIMES ARE NOT, SHOULD NOT
BE HANDLED IN THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM. IS THAT A NATIONWIDE
TREND OVER THE PAST 6 TO 10 YEARS? MANY STATES BECOMING HARDER
ON JUVENILE CRIME?
>>Edward Mulvey: JUST ABOUT ALL STATES HAVE DONE SIMILAR MOVEMENTS
AND CHANGES IN LEGISLATION THAT ARIZONA UNDERWENT. THE DIFFERENCE
IN ARIZONA IS IT WAS SORT OF AT ONE END OF THE CHANGES THAT WENT
ON. SOME STATES HAVE A MORE LIMITED CLASS OF OFFENSES THAT QUALIFY
FOR TREATMENT IN THE ADULT SYSTEM WHERE THEY HAVE MECHANISMS BY
WHICH A JUVENILE CAN BE TRANSFERRED BACK MORE EASILY INTO THE
JUVENILE SYSTEM ONCE IN THE ADULT SYSTEM. ARIZONA WAS IN THE WAVE
DURING THAT PERIOD BUT AT THE FOREFRONT OF HAVING A BROADER SET
OF CRIMES AND MORE RESTRICTIVE AND AUTOMATIC TRANSFER TO THE ADULT
SYSTEM THAN MOST OF OTHER STATES THAT PASSED LEGISLATION.
>> MICHAEL: DENNIS, JOG OUR MEMORY ON SORT OF THE MAJOR CHANGES
THAT WERE MADE, THE JUVENILE SYSTEM VERSUS THE ADULT SYSTEM, AS
A RESULT OF THE PROPOSITION SIX YEARS AGO.
>> Dennis Pickering: THE SINGLE BIGGEST CHANGE WAS CATEGORIZING
JUVENILE, 15, 16, 17 THAT WOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY INTO THE ADULT
SYSTEM. THAT LIMITED JUDICIAL DISCRETION IN THE PROCESS. FOR THOSE
CRIMES, CERTAIN FELONIES THAT JUVENILES WOULD COMMIT, RATHER THAN
HAVING A JUDICIAL REVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND MAKE A DECISION ABOUT
TRANSFER INTO THE ADULT SYSTEM OR REMAIN IN THE JUVENILE SYSTEM,
THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE WOULD GRADE THAT CRIME AND AUTOMATICALLY
PUT THAT INTO THE ADULT SYSTEM. ABOVE AND BEYOND, THAT WE DROPPED
THE AGE TO 14, SO WE SEE RATHER THAN LOOKING AT A SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL
FOR A SPECIFIC CRIME, WE SAW MORE OF A PIGEON-HOLING, MOVING OF
AN ENTIRE POPULATION TO THE ADULT SYSTEM. LIKE ANY SYSTEM SOMEWHAT
IMPARTIAL TO THE INDIVIDUAL NEEDS, IT MEANS WE MAY HAVE BROADENED
THE NUMBER OF YOUTHS THAT GO INTO THAT SYSTEM PERHAPS NEEDLESSLY.
>> MICHAEL: CERTAINLY THE HOPE WAS, PARTICULARLY WITH THE SERIOUS
OFFENDER THAT YOU WOULD SEND A STRONGER MESSAGE, BOTH IN TERMS
OF PROCESSING THEM TO THE ADULT SIDE, AS WELL AS SENDING A STRONGER
MESSAGE GLOBALLY, DON'T GET YOURSELF IN SERIOUS TROUBLE, WE'RE
GOING TO TREAT IT VERY SERIOUSLY. THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE, AT
LEAST FROM A STANDPOINT OF RECIDIVISM, THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE
WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING.
>> Dennis Pickering: CLEARLY, YEAH, WE THINK THAT WE'RE DETAINING
SOME JUVENILES, AND PROTECTING SOCIETY, LIKE WE SHOULD BE DOING.
WE WERE TRANSFERRING SOME OF THESE JUVENILES BEFORE PROPOSITION
102, WE CONTINUE TO DO THAT. WE USE LESS DISCRETION, DO FEWER
ASSESSMENTS ON THOSE KIDS, BECAUSE OF THE LAW CHANGE. CLEARLY,
WE ARE INCARCERATING THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO NEED TO BE INCARCERATED.
WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO REMAIN VIGILANT FROM A PUBLIC SAFETY STANDPOINT.
MANY OF THOSE JUVENILES ARE PERHAPS RECEIVING FEWER SERVICES.
THAT'S THE IRONY. MANY OF THESE YOUTH END UP ON PROBATION WITHOUT
RECEIVING SERVICES THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE RECEIVED IN THE JUVENILE
JUSTICE SYSTEM. IT'S IRONIC THAT WE INTENDED TO SEND A MESSAGE
OF LET'S PROTECT SOCIETY AND TAKE CARE OF THE JUVENILE OFFENDERS
THAT ARE DANGEROUS BUT REALITY ISN'T THAT CASE.
>> MICHAEL: THERE WAS A CONCERN EXPRESSED BY SOME BACK IN 1996
WHAT YOU MIGHT BE DOING IS SENDING JUVENILE OFFENDERS TO CRIME
SCHOOL BY SENDING THEM TO THE ADULT SYSTEM AND TREATING THEM AS
ADULTS. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT PART OF THIS PHENOMENA OF THAT CONCERN
OR FEAR COMING TRUE?
>>Edward Mulvey: I DON'T KNOW OF ANY GOOD STUDIES THAT DOCUMENT
THAT. I THINK THERE ARE SOME GOOD RESEARCH THAT TALKS ABOUT THE
DIFFICULTIES OF THE ADULT SYSTEM IN DEALING WITH YOUNGER KIDS
IN THESE ENVIRONMENTS. THEY ARE MORE EASILY VICTIMIZED. OFTEN,
I MEAN, ANY TIME YOU GET A SELECT GROUP OF SERIOUS OFFENDING KIDS
OR INDIVIDUALS TOGETHER, THEY'RE GOING TO START IDENTIFYING WITH
EACH OTHER, LEARNING THINGS, TRADING INFORMATION. I THINK THAT'S
A COMMON IDEA. THIS IS AT A TIME PERIOD IN LATE TEENS WHEN KIDS
ARE MAKING THAT TREND TO ADULTHOOD. MANY PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM
KNOW KIDS WHO ARE GOING TO MAKE THAT TRANSITION OKAY. BUT WE TEND
TO THINK THAT ONCE A KID HAS COMMITTED A CRIME LIKE THIS, THEY
FIT IN A CLASS OF KIDS WHO ALWAYS CONTINUE TO COMMIT CRIMES. THE
RESEARCH SHOWS MANY OF THE KIDS MAKE A REASONABLY SUCCESSFUL ADJUSTMENT
TO ADULTHOOD IN THE SENSE THEY STOP COMMITTING CRIME. THEY MAY
HAVE OTHER PROBLEMS, THEY MAY CONTINUE TO HAVE HIGHER RATES OF
MENTAL PROBLEMS OR SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEMS, BUT THESE ARE NOT
NECESSARILY KIDS THAT ARE DESTINED TO CONTINUE ON THE ROAD OF
CONTINUED OFFENDING.
>> MICHAEL: ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THE SYMPOSIUM
IS DUAL SENTENCING OF JUVENILES. WHAT IS THAT AND HOW DOES THAT
IMPROVE THE SYSTEM?
>> Edward Mulvey: THERE IS ONE METHOD THAT SOME STATES USE, THEY
CALL IT BLENDED JURISDICTION OR DUAL SENTENCING, WHERE YOU CAN
RECEIVE A SENTENCE AND AT THE END OF YOUR JUVENILE TIME OF SERVING
THE SENTENCE YOU'RE REVIEWED FOR WHETHER YOU CONTINUE TO SERVE
THE SENTENCE IN THE ADULT SYSTEM. SO YOU'RE NOT AUTOMATICALLY
SENT TO THE ADULT SYSTEM TO SERVE THE SENTENCE, BUT YOU SERVE
THE FIRST PART OF IT IN THE JUVENILE SYSTEM, AND THERE'S A DISCRETIONARY
POINT IN THE MIDDLE WHERE IT'S DECIDED WHETHER YOU SHOULD CONTINUE
TO SERVE THE REST OF THE SENTENCE IN THE ADULT SYSTEM.
>> MICHAEL: IS THE OBJECTIVE THERE JUST BETTER FLEXIBILITY, MORE
CASE SPECIFIC AS OPPOSED TO GENERIC KINDS OF SOLUTION AND TREATMENT?
>>Edward Mulvey: I THINK THE NOTION THERE IS THAT KIDS ARE DEVELOPING
AND THAT ANYBODY WHO'S RAISED A TEENAGER AT 16 OR 17, JUST BECAUSE
A KID COMMITTED A CRIME, STILL DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE NOT 16 OR
17. THEY MAY LOOK DIFFERENT AT 19 OR 20, OR 18 OR 19, THAN THEY
WERE AT 15 OR 16. THAT BUILDS IN THE NOTION THERE'S GOT TO BE
CHANGE HERE AND WE SHOULD ASSESS THAT OCCURS WITH THAT KID DURING
THIS TIME, RATHER THAN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME HAS TO BE SERVED.
BUT THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY TIME OF SOMEBODY FROM 24 TO 30, THOSE
SIX YEARS ARE SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT THAN THE SIX YEARS BETWEEN LIKE
16 AND 22. A WHOLE LOT HAPPENS IN A KID'S LIFE DURING THAT TIME.
>> MICHAEL: DENNIS WHAT WERE SOME OF THE OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS?
>> Dennis Pickering: WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT TRANSFER AND
WHAT THE COUNTRY LOOKS LIKE AND ARIZONA LOOKS LIKE. CLEARLY, ONE
OF THE FIRST OUTCOMES OF OUR SYMPOSIUM WAS WE DO WANT TO HOLD
JUVENILES ACCOUNTABLE. THE PUBLIC SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT TO HAVING
A SOCIETY WE FEEL COMFORTABLE GROWING UP, RAISING OUR KIDS. THAT
CAME OUT LOUD AND CLEAR, THAT WE HAVE AN INTACT SYSTEM. AND BY
THE WAY, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUVENILE JUSTICE, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT NO MORE THAN ABOUT 5% OF ALL OF OUR JUVENILES. WE ARE NOT
TALKING ABOUT A PROBLEM THAT IS AS FAR REACHING SOMETIMES AS WE
MIGHT DESCRIBE IT WITH RESPECT TO SOME OF THE THINGS A FEW YOUTHS
CAN DO. PERHAPS ONE OF THE OTHER SIGNIFICANT OUTCOMES FROM THIS
WAS, WE HAVE DATA AND WE HAVE RESEARCH, LIKE DR. MULVEY'S, AND
WE NEED TO BEGIN TO APPLY IT, WE NEED TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT THE
DATA THAT WE PRODUCE HERE IN OUR STATE, PARTICULARLY IN MARICOPA
COUNTY. WE HAVE WONDERFUL INFORMATION ABOUT JUVENILES, WHERE THEY
LIVE, THEY'RE FAMILIES, THE KINDS OF CRIME THEY ARE COMMITTING.
WE HAVE WONDERFUL RESOURCES TO EXAMINE HOW TO TREAT THIS POPULATION
AND WE NEED TO COMMIT TO DOING THAT, WE NEED TO COMMIT TO LOOKING
AT AND ASSESSING JUVENILES AND PUTTING THEM IN THE RIGHT KIND
OF PROGRAMS.
>> MICHAEL: PERHAPS PUTTING THEM IN THOSE PROGRAMS, NOT NECESSARILY
CEASING AT AGE 18? OTHER STATES HAVE DESIGNED SYSTEMS THAT OFFER
THOSE KINDS OF PROGRAMS AND SERVICES BEYOND THE AGE OF 18?
>>Edward Mulvey: WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SENTENCING ISSUES
AND THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST STRAIGHTFORWARD ONE TO LEGISLATE.
THE COMPLEXITIES OF GETTING THE SYSTEMS TO WORK TOGETHER, IF YOU
THINK ABOUT A KID WHO HAS A DRUG AND ALCOHOL PROBLEM, FAMILY ISSUES
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING TOGETHER MENTAL HEALTH PROVIDERS
AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROVIDERS, AS WELL AS THE JUSTICE SYSTEM TO
PUT TOGETHER A SET OF SERVICES THAT CONTINUE WITH THAT ADOLESCENT
PAST 18. THAT'S A BIG TASK THAT TAKES A LOT OF COOPERATION AND
CONSENSUS AMONG PROVIDERS. WHAT WAS INTERESTING ABOUT THE ARIZONA
SYMPOSIUM WERE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE OPEN TO THOSE DISCUSSIONS.
THERE WAS VERY LITTLE SORT OF SAYING THIS IS ALL I CAN DO AND
I CAN'T CONTRIBUTE ANY MORE.
>> MICHAEL: DO SOME OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS, THOUGH, REQUIRE
LEGISLATIVE ACTION, PERHAPS EVEN A TRIP BACK TO THE BALLOT BOX?
>> Dennis Pickering: THEY CERTAINLY COULD. ONE OF THE THINGS
WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS GET AHEAD OF SOME OF THE MOMENTUM THAT
HAS BEGUN. WE HAVE SOME SYSTEM STAKEHOLDERS THAT PARTICIPATED.
WE PLANNED AN ACTION COMMITTEE TO FOLLOW UP ON THE SIX RECOMMENDATIONS.
WE WILL DISCUSS WHAT WE THINK MIGHT HELP THE DISCUSSION IN THE
STATE, HOW WE CAN INFORM POLICY MAKERS AND LEGISLATORS AND ADMINISTRATORS
ON THE TOPICS AND WHAT THEY CAN DO.
>> MICHAEL: DENNIS PICKERING, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. ED MULVEY,
OUR THANKS TO YOU, AS WELL. TODAY IS THE LAST DAY TO REGISTER
TO VOTE. YOU HAVE UNTIL MIDNIGHT. IF YOU CAN REGISTER ON LINE,
YOU WILL FIND THE LINK ON OUR ELECTION 2002 WEBSITE PLUS MUCH
MORE. ONE OF THE MOST USEFUL FEATURES YOU'LL FIND ON THE WEBSITE
IS FULL INFORMATION ABOUT EVERY PROPOSITION ON THE STATE BALLOT.
HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW OUR WEBSITE CAN HELP YOU. FIRST GO TO
THE SITE AT WWW.KAET.ASU.EDU. WHEN YOU GET THERE, CLICK ON THE
ELECTION 2002 EMBLEM. THEN CLICK ON ARIZONA BALLOT PROPOSITION.
LET'S SAY YOU WANTED TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT PROPOSITION 203. CLICK
ON THAT BOX. THAT WILL TAKE YOU TO A PAGE WITH A SUMMARY, ANALYSIS
AND LINKS TO PRO AND CON INFORMATION. THERE'S A LOT MORE TO OUR
SITE. AMONG THE OTHER FEATURES, MY BALLOT, A CHECKLIST OF THE
PROPOSITIONS YOU CAN PRINT OUT AND TAKE TO THE VOTING BOOTH. A
LINK AND RESOURCES PAGE THAT INCLUDES SITES WHERE YOU CAN REGISTER
TO VOTE, FIND OUT WHICH DISTRICT YOU LIVE IN, REQUEST AN EARLY
BALLOT AND FIND THE LOCATION OF YOUR POLLING PLACE. YOU CAN VIEW
TRANSCRIPTS OF ALL THE SHOWS WE DO ON BALLOT PROPOSITIONS AND
REQUEST AN E-MAIL REMINDER ON UPCOMING SHOWS. IN ADDITION, YOU
CAN VIEW ASU POLLS ON CANDIDATES AND BALLOT MEASURES.
>>> Michael Grant: ARIZONA HISTORY IS USUALLY SHOWCASED AT THE
STATE CAPITOL MUSEUM. CURRENTLY, THERE WILL BE A DIFFERENT KIND
OF EXHIBIT. PAUL ATKINSON AND PHOTOGRAPHER RICHARD TORRUELLAS
SHOW US THE MUSEUM MANY OF US ARE FAMILIAR WITH BUT KNOW LITTLE
ABOUT.
>> Marion Shepherd: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO ARIZONA'S
FAVORITE UNCLE.
>> Paul Atkinson: THE FOURTH FLOW OF THE CAPITOL ROTUNDA PAYS
TRIBUTE TO A MAN YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT, READ ABOUT OR EVEN SEEN.
>> Marion Shepherd: YOU COME UP THE STAIRS AND INVITE THEM TO
SEE ARIZONA'S FAVORITE UNCLE. THEY LOOK AROUND AND THEY SMILE.
THEN YOU SAY TO THEM, DID YOU KNOW THERE REALLY WAS AN UNCLE SAM?
THEY GO, REALLY?
>> Paul Atkinson: REALLY. HIS NAME WAS SAM WILSON, A BUTCHER
AND MEAT PACKER WHO LIVED IN TROY, NEW YORK. SAM SUPPLIED BEEF
TO THE U.S. ARMY IN THE BATTLE OF 1814.
>> Marion Shepherd: HE WOULD STAMP HIS BARRELS BEEF WITH BIG
BLACK LETTERS, U.S. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE STOOD FOR UNITED STATES,
BUT HE WAS AFFECTIONATELY KNOWN AS UNCLE SAM AROUND TOWN. THE
NAME KIND OF STUCK AND THAT WAS HOW IT CAME INTO BEING.
>> Paul Atkinson: CARTOONISTS GAVE LIFE TO UNCLE SAM AS A CARICATURE
AT A TIME WHEN YANKEE DOODLE AND BROTHER JONATHAN SERVED AS AMERICAN
SYMBOLS.
>> Marion Shepherd: CARTOONISTS DIDN'T START DRAWING HIM UNTIL
MAYBE THE 1830S. WE SEE THE IMAGES OF BROTHER JONATHAN AND UNCLE
SAM AND YANKEE DOODLE UP TO ABOUT THE TIME OF THE CIVIL WAR. THEN
YOU SEE MOSTLY THE IMAGES OF UNCLE SAM COMING INTO BEING.
>> Paul Atkinson: UNCLE SAM WAS A CLEAN-SHAVEN FELLOW, UNTIL
THE CIVIL WAR ERA. THEN HE GREW FACIAL HAIR THAT HAPPENED LOOKED
LIKE A CERTAIN U.S. PRESIDENT.
>>Marion Shepherd: AN ARTIST BY THE NAME OF THOMAS NAST WAS VERY
GREAT SUPPORTER OF PRESIDENT LINCOLN. AND WHEN LINCOLN WAS ASSASSINATED,
IT WAS SUCH AN AWFUL, HORRIBLE BLOW, AS A FORM OF CONTRIBUTE,
HE STARTED ADDING LINCOLN'S FEATURES TO HIS UNCLE SAM.
>> Paul Atkinson: THOMAS NAST WASN'T JUST ANY CARTOONIST, BUT
PERHAPS THE MOST POWERFUL EVER TO USE INK AND PEN.
>> Marion Shepherd: PEOPLE WAITED FOR HIS CARTOONS TO COME OUT,
WAITED TO SEE WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SAY ABOUT A PARTICULAR ISSUE
OF THE DAY. HE BECAME SO WELL KNOWN AND POWERFUL THAT PEOPLE BEGAN
TAKING HIS LOOK OF UNCLE SAM AS GOSPEL. WHEN HE DREW UNCLE SAM,
PEOPLE KNEW THAT WAS HOW HE WAS SUPPOSED TO LOOK.
>> Paul Atkinson: THIS POSTER IS HOW PEOPLE IN THE 20TH CENTURY
BEGAN TO KNOW UNCLE SAM. IT WASN'T MADE BY NAST, BUT BY AN AMERICAN
PAINTER NAMED JAMES MONTGOMERY FLAG. HIS NAME MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR,
BUT HIS FACE SHOULD BE.
>>Marion Shepherd: MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT'S JAMES MONTGOMERY
FLAG'S SELF-PORTRAIT. HE CREATED THE POSTER AND IT WAS SO POPULAR
THAT IT WAS CONTINUED TO BE USED DURING WORLD WAR II, AS WELL,
AND THE POSTER AS WE KNOW AS THE I WANT YOU POSTER.
>> Paul Atkinson: FLAG'S SELF-PORTRAIT HELPED THE U.S. RECRUIT
SOLDIERS, SELL WAR BONDS AND SELL JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE.
>>Marion Shepherd: UNCLE SAM SELLS. THE IMAGE IS USED VERY
WELL IN SELLING THINGS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
>> Paul Atkinson: INCLUDING PEOPLE. UNCLE SAM HAS HELPED HIS
SHARE OF POLITICIANS.
>>Marion Shepherd: IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE UNCLE SAM ON YOUR
SIDE SINCE HE SYMBOLIZES THE GOOD THINGS IN LIFE TO THE AMERICAN
PUBLIC, HE IS GOING TO HELP YOU MIGHTILY.
>> Paul Atkinson: UNCLE SAM CAN STILL BE FOUND WHERE HE ORIGINATED,
IN THE EDITORIAL PAGE. FINDING THE ARTIFACTS AND MEMORABILIA FOR
THE EXHIBIT WASN'T SO EASY.
>> Marion Shepherd: WE FIRST CONTACTED OTHER MUSEUMS HERE IN
TOWN AND AROUND THE STATE, BUT NOT MANY MUSEUMS HAD VERY MANY
OBJECTS OR ITEMS DEALING WITH UNCLE SAM.
>> Paul Atkinson: AFTER THE STATE MUSEUM PUT THE WORD OUT, HELP
CAME FROM EVERYWHERE. LIBRARIANS TRACKED DOWN CENTURY-OLD MAGAZINES,
A RESTAURANT LOANED ITS CARVED UNCLE SAM AND LOTS OF INDIVIDUALS
LOANED PERSONAL ITEMS, INCLUDING THIS COLLECTIBLE, AN UNCLE SAM
WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE MINUS THE REFERENCE TO GO. EVEN
THE LEGISLATORS GOT INTO THE ACT AND TRIED TO HELP.
>> Paul Atkinson: OVER THE YEARS HIS IMAGE HAS CHANGED, AS HAS
THE CAUSES HE STOOD FOR. UNCLE SAM CAN BE FUNNY OR JUST PLAIN
MAD. AND NOW VISITORS TO THE CAPITOL MUSEUM CAN LEARN ALL THEY
WANT TO KNOW ABOUT ARIZONA'S FAVORITE UNCLE.
>> Marion Shepherd: WE WANT PEOPLE TO REALIZE IT'S A SYMBOL THAT'S
BEEN AROUND FOR OVER 200 YEARS AND IT'S STILL ALIVE AND WELL TODAY.
IT'S STILL INSPIRING US, STILL LEADING US.
>> MICHAEL: THE UNCLE SAM EXHIBIT WILL BE ON DISPLAY AT THE CAPITOL
MUSEUM UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR. TOMORROW, A LOOK AT THE ACCURACY
OF THE LATEST ROUND OF TELEVISION ADS BY CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR,
AND A DEBATE ON PROPOSITION 103 WHICH KEEPS SEXUAL OFFENDERS FROM
GETTING BAILED OUT OF JAIL. THEN WEDNESDAY, AS OUR POPULATION
AGES, A LOOK AT THE GROWING NEED TO CARE FOR PARENTS, SPOUSES
AND FRIENDS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THIS MONDAY
EVENING. I'M MICHAEL GRANT. HAVE A GOOD ONE. GOOD NIGHT.
