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October 14, 2002

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
Arizona schools
A preview of the state's report on the performance of schools
Taliesen Fellowship
A look at the program Frank Lloyd Wright used to continue his legacy through other architects.
In-Studio Guests:
David Garcia, Associate Superintendent of Standards and Accountability for the Arizona Board of Education;
Arnold Roy, A Taliesin fellow and former student of Frank Lloyd Wright

>> MICHAEL: TONIGHT ON "HORIZON," THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WILL RELEASE PERFORMANCE RANKINGS FOR EVERY SCHOOL IN THE STATE TOMORROW. WE'LL FIND OUT HOW THESE "LABELS" COULD AFFECT OUR CLASSROOMS. AND LATER, HOW STUDENTS OF THE LEGENDARY. ARCHITECT FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT ARE CARRYING ON HIS LEGACY. GOOD EVENING. I'M MICHAEL GRANT. IN THE WAKE OF DEMANDS FOR GREATER SCHOOL PERFORMANCE AND ACCOUNTABILITY, MANY SCHOOLS IN ARIZONA ARE FACING NOT ONLY THE PROSPECT OF BEING LABELED "UNDERPERFORMING" BUT ALL THE CHALLENGES THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT DESIGNATION, AS WELL.

>> Mike Sauceda: ON OCTOBER 15, SCHOOLS WILL LEARN IF THEY ARE IMPROVING, MAINTAINING OR UNDERPERFORMING. THESE LABELS ARE THE RESULT OF AN ACHIEVEMENT FORMULA GENERATED BY THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

>> Art Lebowitz: ACHIEVEMENT PROFILES MEASURE HOW A SCHOOL HAS DONE, HAS PERFORMED OVER TIME ON READING, WRITING AND MATH SCORES ON THE AIMS TEST AND IN THEIR GRADUATION RATES AND DROPOUT RATES. SO THE LABEL REALLY IDENTIFIES WHETHER OR NOT A SCHOOL OVER TIME HAS IMPROVED.

>> Sauceda: THESE LABELS COME AFTER YEARS OF EFFORT TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF EDUCATION THAT BEGAN IN THE LATE 1990S WHEN ARIZONA BEGAN TO ESTABLISH STATE STANDARDS. IN MARCH OF 2000 THE GOVERNOR INTRODUCED EDUCATION 2000, AN INITIATIVE THAT WOULD SUPPLY RESOURCES TO ARIZONA PUBLIC SCHOOLS THROUGH AN INCREASE IN THE STATE SALES TAX. IN NOVEMBER OF THAT YEAR, VOTERS PASSED PROPOSITION 301 WHICH WOULD GENERATE MILLIONS IN REVENUE FOR EDUCATION. AS A CONDITION OF 301, SCHOOLS COMMITTED TO MORE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE. JANUARY 2002, THE PRESIDENT SIGNED THE NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT, REQUIRING STATES TO TEST GRADES 3 THROUGH 8. IN JUNE 2002 THE IMPROVED SCHOOL ACCOUNTABILITY LEGISLATION WAS APPROVED REQUIRING ASSESSMENT AND CLASSIFICATION OF EVERY SCHOOL'S PERFORMANCE BY THE FOLLOWING OCTOBER 15TH. IN SEPTEMBER THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION APPROVED THE FORMULA FOR SIGNING THE SCHOOL ACHIEVEMENT PROFILES. WHILE EDUCATORS RECOGNIZE THE NEED FOR A SYSTEM THAT MEASURES PERFORMANCE, TEACHERS LIKE TERRIE ST. MICHELS CAUTION THAT LABELS TELL ONLY PART OF THE STORY.

>>Terrie St. Michell: I WORRY SOMETIMES THAT WHEN WE LOOK ONLY AT TEST SCORES AND DROPOUT RATES AND GRADUATION RATES THAT WE ARE REALLY MISSING THE PERSON BEHIND THOSE THINGS. I THINK IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO BE A TEENAGER TODAY. I MARVEL SOMETIMES THAT THEY DO SHOW UP AND THAT THEY ARE SO DETERMINED TO KEEP GOING AND KEEP TRYING AND DO THINGS THAT VERY OFTEN THEY ARE LOOKED AT AS THEY CAN'T DO OR THEY ARE NOT EXPECTED TO DO. EXPECTATIONS ARE SO IMPORTANT.

>> REPORTER: NEGATIVE EXPECTATIONS ARE SOMETHING SOUTH MOUNTAIN HIGH SCHOOL HAS BEEN LABORING TO OVERCOME FOR YEARS

>> Patricia Tobin: WE'RE SOUTH OF THE FREEWAY, SOUTH OF THE RIVER BOTTOM, SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE STUDENTS ARE UNDERACHIEVING. THE LABEL WE MAY GET, I KNOW WHAT THE ACHIEVEMENT LEVEL IS AND I KNOW OUR STUDENTS ARE BEHIND IN MANY AREAS BUT THAT DOESN'T STOP US FROM TRYING TO IMPROVE.

>> Harry Garewal, Jr.: IF WE LOOK AT IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE DOES EVERY CHILD HAVE POTENTIAL TO LEARN? ABSOLUTELY. THE CHILDREN IN RURAL AND URBAN COMMUNITIES, WE WILL ALSO NEED TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGE OUR LEGISLATURE TO KEEP THE RESOURCES IN PLACE. ESPECIALLY IN THE TIME OF ECONOMIC DOWNTURN.

>> Sauceda: ANTICIPATING THE CONCERNS OF PARENTS, EDUCATORS HAVE MADE AN EFFORT TO EXPLAIN THE PERFORMANCE RANKING PROCESS. THEY ALSO REMAIN AWARE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT LIE AHEAD.

>> Patricia Tobin: WE KNOW WE'VE BEEN WORKING VERY HARD AND WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CLASSROOM AND WE KNOW HOW HARD THE TEACHERS WORK. WHEN THEY SEE WHAT THE LABELS ARE GOING TO BE, THEY WONDER WHERE YOU REALLY ARE, WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO.

>> MICHAEL: JOINING ME IS DAVID GARCIA, ASSOCIATE SUPERINTENDENT OF STANDARDS AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE ARIZONA STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION. DAVID, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> David Garcia: GOOD EVENING.

>> MICHAEL: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE RESULTS IN JUST A SECOND, BUT ARE WE ATTEMPTED TO QUANTIFY THE UNQUANTIFIABLE? I THINK THAT'S PART OF WHAT WAS BEING SAID.

>> David Garcia: I THINK WE CAN'T CAPSULE EVERYTHING THAT GOES INTO A SCHOOL THROUGH A SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT PROFILE LIKE THE ACHIEVEMENT PROFILE. WE ARE GETTING THE CORE AREAS, WE NEED TO FOCUS IN THE CORE AREAS AND WHETHER THEY ARE STAYING IN SCHOOL ON AN ANNUAL BASIS. WE ARE NOT CAPTURING ALL OF IT, BUT CAPTURING SOME PRIORITY AREAS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE TAX PAYERS AND THE PUBLIC, AS WELL.

>> MICHAEL: DIFFERENT CRITERIA USED IN EVALUATING SCHOOLS K-8 VERSUS HIGH SCHOOL, RIGHT?

>> David GarciaTHERE ARE DIFFERENT CRITERIA, BOTH INCLUDE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENTS, K-8 IT'S THE AIMS AND THE STANFORD 9. WE LOOK AT AN INDIVIDUAL STUDENT OVER TIME THAT'S BEEN IN THE SAME SCHOOL FOR ONE YEAR. IT PUTS EMPHASIS ON WHETHER A STUDENT IS MAKING A YEAR'S WORTH OF GAIN. AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL, WE HAVE AIMS AS THE ACADEMIC MEASURE. WE ALSO INCLUDE THE GRADUATION AND DROPOUT RATE, AS WELL.

>> MICHAEL: SO IS, WHEN YOU GO TO COMPARE THE AIMS RESULTS AND A LARGE PART OF THIS IS TRACKING PERFORMANCE, WE'VE GOT A DOWN ARROW HERE, UP ARROW, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, ARE YOU FOCUSING ON STUDENTS OR ARE YOU FOCUSING INDIVIDUAL STUDENTS OR FOCUSING AGAINST COMPARATIVE DATA FROM THE LAST TIME WE TOOK THE THIRD GRADE TEST OR THE 8TH GRADE TEST OR WHATEVER?

>> David Garcia: THE ENTIRE PROFILE LOOKS AT SCHOOL PERFORMANCE STARTING IN 2000, TO 2002. THE SCHOOL STARTS WITH 80% OF THE STUDENTS MEETING STANDARDS OR 10 PERCENT OF THE STUDENTS MEETING THE STANDARDS. THE QUESTION IS DO THEY MAKE PROGRESS FROM THAT STARTING POINT. WE DON'T LOOK AT OVERALL AGGREGATE SCORES, WE GET DOWN TO DETAILED INFORMATION WITH EVERY STUDENT. THE QUESTION IS, OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, ARE SCHOOLS TRENDING UPWARD OR DOWNWARD. WE ALSO LOOK AT ALL SCHOOL CATEGORIES. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AIMS RESULTS AS PERCENTAGE OF STUDENTS WHO MEET THE STANDARDS. IN THE ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM, WE PROVIDE SCORES FOR STUDENTS IN CATEGORIES CALLED FALLS FAR BELOW STANDARDS, APPROACHES STANDARDS OR MEETS OR EXCEEDS. IF STUDENTS MOVE OUT OF FALLS FAR BELOW INTO APPROACHES, THEY RECEIVE CREDIT UNDER THE ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM. I THINK PEOPLE WILL BE SURPRISED WHEN THEY SEE THE RESULTS BECAUSE WE HAVE SCHOOLS IN OUR STATE THAT HAVE THE MAJORITY OF STUDENTS IN FALLS FAR BLOW THAT ARE MOVING THEM TO APPROACHES, BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT BECAUSE WE SPEND MOST OF OUR TIME LOOKING AT PERCENTAGE OF MEETS OR EXCEEDS AND THAT MAY HAVE STAYED STABLE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS.

>> MICHAEL: HOW SURPRISED ARE WE GOING TO BE TOMORROW, HOW MANY SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE LABELED UNDERPERFORMING?

>> David Garcia: FROM A RESEARCH STANDPOINT, WHEN I WORK WITH SCHOOLS, I GO OUT AND LOOK AT THEIR INFORMATION, TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK HOW YOUR SCHOOL WOULD DO. WE HAVE BEEN VERY ACCURATE. JUST LIKE AIMS RESULTS, IF THE ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM IS DONE WELL, IT SHOULD TELL US THINGS WE ALREADY KNOW. MANY SUPERINTENDENTS ARE OUT TALKING TO THE COMMUNITIES, THE ADVANTAGES OF THE SCHOOLS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE INFORMATION, BY AND LARGE THEY KNOW. I WORKED WITH THE RURAL COMMUNITY WHO HAD DIFFICULTY IN MATHEMATICS. AFTER WORKING WITH THEM FOR SOME TIME, THEY TOLD ME THEY CAN'T GET A QUALIFIED MATH TEACHER TO THAT AREA. THEY KNEW THEY WERE HAVING DIFFICULTY IN MATHEMATICS AND THIS FLUSHED THAT OUT.

>> MICHAEL: WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A FEW HUNDRED SCHOOLS UNDER PERFORMING.

>> David Garcia: APPROXIMATELY 200.

>> MICHAEL: WHAT'S THE TOTAL DATABASE?

>> David Garcia: WE HAVE 1800 SCHOOLS AND ABOUT 1400 WILL RECEIVE A PROFILE TOMORROW. THE REMAINING SCHOOLS HAVE APPLIED FOR ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL STATUS AND WILL BE ACCOUNTED FOR BY THE END OF THE MONTH OR THEY'RE ACCOMMODATION SCHOOLS AND WE NEED TO WORK ON A PROFILE FOR THOSE SCHOOLS. WE HAVE SOME SCHOOLS THAT ARE EXTREMELY SMALL AND WE NEED SOME GUIDANCE FROM THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION. WE'VE GOT SCHOOLS OUT THERE WITH LESS THAN TEN STUDENTS AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO USE CONVENTIONAL STATISTICS.

>> MICHAEL: WHEN WE STARTED HEARING ABOUT THIS ABOUT A MONTH AGO, FIRST REPORTS THERE WERE GOING TO BE ZERO SCHOOLS EXCELLING. TURNS OUT, THERE'S GOING TO BE A SCHOOLS THAT WILL BE EXCELLING.

>> David Garcia: THOSE TWO SCHOOLS ARE UNIVERSITY HIGH SCHOOL IN TUCSON AND TEMPE PREPARATORY ACADEMY. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN DOING A SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT PROCESS SINCE 1998. WE HAVE SOME SCHOOLS GETTING OUT OF SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT, INCLUDING FRANK SCHOOL IN GUADALUPE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO HAS BEEN MAKING ENOUGH PROGRESS TO BE OUT OF SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT AND WILL START UNDER NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND.

>> MICHAEL: YOU MENTIONED IT, LET ME TOUCH ON IT, THE NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND FEDERAL LEGISLATION. HOW DOES THAT FACTOR IN AND MIX WITH ALL OF THIS?

>>David Garcia: THIS YEAR, ARIZONA LEARNS MET FEDERAL PURPOSE, THAT WAS AN AGREEMENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. THIS YEAR OUR SCHOOL RECEIVE ONE PROFILE AN IT WILL SERVE BOTH PURPOSES. STARTING NEXT YEAR WE HAVE TO BECOME MORE COMPLIANT WITH THE SPECIFICS OF NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND. WE THINK PARTS WILL CHANGE, BUT THE CORE SHOULD STAY THE SAME. THE IDEA OF LOOKING AT SCHOOLS AS A BASELINE AND HOW MUCH THEY PROGRESS IS GOOD EVALUATION, GOOD RESEARCH, AND WE BELIEVE IT'S IN LINE WITH THE INTENT AND SPIRIT OF NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND.

>> MICHAEL: TOMORROW I OPEN UP THE ENVELOPE, I'M THE PRINCIPAL. UNDERPERFORMING. MAYBE I'M NOT SURPRISED. WHAT DOES IT MEAN, THOUGH?

>> David Garcia: WHAT IT MEANS TO THAT SCHOOL IS THAT SCHOOL HAS TO START A SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT PROCESS. THE FIRST PART IS TO DO A SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT PLAN. THAT PLAN, ACTUALLY THE FIRST THING THAT SCHOOL NEEDS TO DO IS NOTIFY THE RESIDENTS AND PARENTS IN THE DISTRICT OF THEIR PROFILE. SCHOOLS HAVE 30 DAYS TO COMPLETE THAT PROCESS. THEY ALSO, THEN, WITH THE GOVERNING BOARD MEMBERS AND HELP OF THE DISTRICT HAVE TO COMPLETE A PLAN AND IMPLEMENT THE PLAN. COMPLETING THE PEN AND PAPER OF A PLAN IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPECIFICS OF A SCHOOL.

>> MICHAEL: GIVE US A FEEL FOR A PLAN. A PRACTICAL EXAMPLE OF OKAY, I'M UNDERPERFORMING, HERE IS MY PLAN TO DO BETTER. WHAT IS THAT PLAN?

>>David Garcia: I THINK THE FIRST PLAN IS TARGET NO MORE THAN THREE AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT. SCHOOLS THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL FOCUS IN ON NO MORE THAN THREE AREAS AND START TO IMPROVEMENT. THAT STARTS TO BE VERY DIFFICULT. LISTENING TO EDUCATORS IN THE ACCOMPANYING PIECE, YOU FIND MANY THINGS COME INTO PLACE WITH STUDENTS, HEALTH CARE NEEDS, SOCIAL NEEDS. SCHOOLS SUCCESSFUL FOCUS ON NO MORE THAN THREE ACADEMIC AREAS AND PUT ALL OF THEIR EMPHASIS INTO THOSE AREAS.

>> MICHAEL: THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MIND IS MATH, WRITING AND READING. IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN BY THREE AREAS?

>> David arcia: ABSOLUTELY. LOOKING SPECIFICALLY IN READING, ARE STUDENTS HAVING TROUBLE DECODING WORDS OR COMPREHENSION. THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT STRATEGIES, WHETHER THE STUDENTS NEED TO SIT DOWN FOR THAT PURPOSE OR IS IT READING COMPREHENSION. IN MATHEMATICS IS IT HIGHER ORDER OR MORE COMPLEX THINKING SKILLS.

>> MICHAEL: HAVING MADE THAT ASSESSMENT AND FORMULATING THE PLAN, WOULD YOU SAY, I'M GOING TO TRANSFER THREE MORE TEACHERS TO THAT?

>> David Garcia:THE NEXT STEP IS PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT. STATES THAT HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL ON ACCOUNTABILITY HAVE GOTTEN THE BEST BENEFIT OUT OF PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT. TO TEACH THE CORE AREAS, TO UNDERSTAND THE DATA. THE NEXT PART OF THE SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT PLAN IS A PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TEACH THE TEACHERS TO TEACH THE STUDENTS. THREE MORE TEACHERS WITHOUT THE TRAINING NECESSARY IS NOT GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE AT TAKING THE TIME AND EMPHASIS REQUIRED TO MAKE SURE ALL TEACHERS ARE PREPARED AND READY. ONE EXAMPLE IS READING. THE K-3 READING DOLLARS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. I KNOW WE APPLIED FOR IT THREE MORE TIMES PREVIOUSLY. THAT'S $116 MILLION SPECIFICALLY FOR PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT SO THAT TEACHERS HAVE READING STRATEGIES SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR PLAN, IF IT IS DECODING FOR EXAMPLE, TEACHER HAVE A HANDFUL OF STRATEGIES TO GET THEM READY.

>> MICHAEL: NEXT YEAR, SAME GUY, I'M THE PRINCIPAL. I OPEN UP MY ENVELOPE. STILL SAYS UNDERPERFORMING, DESPITE MY PLAN. WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

>> David Garcia: SCHOOLS THAT ARE LABELED UNDERPERFORMING FOR TWO CONSECUTIVE YEARS WILL BE LABELED FAILING. A LOT OF CONVERSATION IS GOING ON ABOUT THE FAILING CLASSIFICATION. IT DOESN'T COME INTO EFFECT UNTIL NEXT YEAR. AT THAT POINT, THAT PRINCIPAL WOULD BE AFFORDED THE ASSISTANCE OF STATE SOLUTIONS TEAMS. THEY'RE GOING TO BE TEAMS TARGETED FOR SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT PURPOSES. WE HAVE DOLLARS AVAILABLE THROUGH PROPOSITION 301 TO SUPPORT THESE TEAMS AND MAKE THEM AVAILABLE FOR ALL OF OUR SCHOOLS THAT ARE FAILING. IT' GOING TO BE DIFFICULT THIS YEAR. ONE AREA OF POTENTIAL IMPROVEMENT IN ARIZONA LEARNS IS EXTENDING THE SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT TIME. RIGHT NOW, SCHOOLS WILL COMPLETE THEIR TIME IN JANUARY, WE START ASSESSING A COUPLE MONTHS LATER IN SPRING AND IT TAKES A LITTLE LONGER THAN THAT TO GET GOOD PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT IN PLACE AND PUT IN NOT JUST A QUICK FIX BUT LONG TERM STRATEGIES TO IMPROVE SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT. I THINK THAT COULD BE AN AREA OF IMPROVEMENT FOR ARIZONA LEARNS.

>> MICHAEL: DAVID GARCIA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I GUESS WE'LL SEE FINAL RESULTS TOMORROW.

>> David Garcia: THANK YOU.

>> MICHAEL: ELECTION DAY IS JUST THREE WEEKS AWAY. IF YOU'RE STILL UNDECIDED ABOUT ANY OF THE ISSUES OR THE CANDIDATES, WE CAN HELP YOU MAKE UP YOUR MIND. JUST VISIT OUR ELECTION 2002 WEBSITE. ONE OF THE MOST USEFUL FEATURES YOU WILL FIND ON THE WEBSITE IS FULL INFORMATION ABOUT EVERY PROPOSITION ON THE STATE BALLOT. HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW OUR WEBSITE CAN HELP YOU DETERMINE YOUR VOTE. FIRST GO TO THE SITE AT WWW.KAET.ASU.EDU. WHEN YOU GET THERE, CLICK ON THE ELECTION 2002 EMBLEM. THEN CLICK ON ARIZONA BALLOT PROPOSITION. LET'S SAY YOU WANTED TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT PROPOSITION 203. CLICK ON THAT BOX. THAT WILL TAKE YOU TO A PAGE WITH A SUMMARY, OFFICIAL BALLOT LANGUAGE, A FISCAL ANALYSIS AND LINKS TO PRO AND CON WEBSITES, AS WELL AS OTHER INFORMATION. THERE'S A LOT MORE TO OUR SITE. AMONG THE OTHER FEATURES, MY BALLOT, A CHECKLIST OF THE PROPOSITIONS YOU CAN PRINT AND TAKE TO THE VOTING BOOTH. A LINKS AND RESOURCES PAGE THAT INCUDES SITES, FIND OUT WHICH DISTRICT YOU LIVE IN, REQUEST AN EARLY BALLOT AND FIND THE LOCATION OF YOUR POLLING PLACE. YOU CAN VIEW TRANSCRIPTS OF ALL THE SHOWS WE DO ON BALLOT PROPOSITIONS AND REQUEST AN E-MAIL REMINDER ON UPCOMING SHOWS. YOU CAN VIEW CHANNEL 8 A.S.U. POLLS ON CANDIDATES AND BALLOT MEASURES. TONIGHT AT 9:00, CHANNEL 8 WILL AIR PART TWO OF KEN BURNS' DOCUMENTARY ON THE MAN WHO REVOLUTIONIZED ARCHITECTURE IN THE 20TH CENTURY, FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT. HIS VISIONARY DESIGNS CAN BE FOUND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD AND HERE IN ARIZONA. IN 1932, WRIGHT MADE PROVISIONS FOR HIS WORK TO CONTINUE ON BY CREATING THE TALIESIN FELLOWSHIP. THIS FELLOWSHIP HAS ALLOWED STUDENTS TO LEARN AND PRACTICE WRIGHT'S ORGANIC STYLE OF ARCHITECTURE. JOINING ME NOW IS ARNOLD ROY, A TALIESIN FELLOW AND FORMER STUDENT OF FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT.

>> MICHAEL: AGAIN, A REMINDER, PART TWO OF KEN BURNS' AMERICAN STORIES: FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT AIRS TONIGHT AT 9:00 ON CHANNEL 8. GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> Arnold Roy: MICHAEL, THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME OVER.

>> MICHAEL: WHAT WAS THE STUDENT'S EXPERIENCE LIKE? SORT.

>> Arnold Roy: SORT OF YOU NEVER KNEW WHAT THE NEXT MOMENT WAS GOING TO BRING. IT WAS AN UNBELIEVABLE LEARNING EXPERIENCE, REALLY MADE A LASTING IMPRESSION ON THE PEOPLE THAT DECIDED TO STAY AT TALIESIN.

>> MICHAEL: WAS HE A GOOD TEACHER? SOMETIMES PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO ARE NOT VERY GOOD TEACHING WHAT THEY DO.

>> Arnold Roy: HE WAS AN EXAMPLE. BY BEING AN EXAMPLE, HE WAS AN EXCELLENT TEACHER.

>> MICHAEL: EXPLAIN TO ME, WHAT IS HIS ORGANIC STYLE OF ARCHITECTURE?

>> Arnold Roy: THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. AND FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT IN HIS ENTIRE LIFETIME NEVER REALLY WROTE IT DOWN. THERE'S AN ARTICLE IN THE SEPTEMBER 1908 ARCHITECTURAL RECORD WHICH CAME TO THE CLOSEST TO ACTUALLY DESCRIBING IT. HE NEVER WANTED IT TO BE A FARM LA SO WE WOULD READ THIS IS HOW YOU DO ORGANIC ARCHITECTURE. IT'S A CONTINUOUS, LIFELONG PURSUIT AND HE NEVER REALLY WROTE IT DOWN. WHAT HE DID IS HE DID IT.

>> MICHAEL: PERHAPS BY COMPARISON AND CONTRAST, WHAT DOES IT INVOLVE IN TERMS OF APPROACH DIFFERENT THAN HOW OTHER ARCHITECTS WOULD PLY THEIR TRADE OR REACH THEIR VISION?

>> Arnold Roy: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE WOULD TELL US AND THIS HE WROTE ABOUT A LOT, IS NATURE IS YOUR INSPIRATION. IF YOU LOOK AT FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT'S WORK, YOU WILL SEE NATURE EVERYWHERE. TALIESIN WEST IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THE SURROUNDING DESERT BEING THE INSPIRATION FOR THE BUILDINGS.

>> MICHAEL: TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, ALLOWING THE SETTING TO DICTATE THE TERMS AS OPPOSED TO THE STRUCTURE TO DICTATE THE TERMS?

>> Arnold Roy: THE ARCHITECT NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING. SOME ARCHITECTS HAVE ATTEMPTED TO SAY NATURE IS INSPIRING THEM, BUT I BELIEVE THEY MISSED THE BOAT COMPARED TO THE WAY FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT DID IT. HIS BUILDINGS ARE TRULY INSPIRING.

>> MICHAEL: TALIESIN USED TO BE REMOTE, NOW YOU GUYS ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY. DOES THAT DISTURB THE VISION, THE ORGANIC A LITTLE BIT?

>> Arnold Roy: FORTUNATELY, FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT HAD THE WISDOM, PICTURE YOURSELF STANDING ON THAT LAND IN 1937. THERE WAS NOTHING THERE. HE KNEW EVENTUALLY ARIZONA WOULD BE AMERICA'S PLAYGROUND. ONE OF HIS BOOKS 1929, ARIZONA WILL BE AMERICA'S PLAYGROUND, SO HE KNEW IT WOULD DEVELOP THE WAY IT IS NOW, SO THAT'S WHY HE BOUGHT THE 500 ACRES THAT TALIESIN SITS ON. WE HAVE 500 ACRES TO PROTECT THE BUILDINGS

>> MICHAEL: YOU TOLD ME YOU DIDN'T GET PHONE SERVICE UNTIL 1960.

>> Arnold Roy: WE WERE SO FAR OUT IN THE COUNTRY THE TELEPHONE COMPANY WOULD NOT RUN LINES OUT THERE.

>> MICHAEL: TELL ME ABOUT THE FELLOWSHIP AND THE LEGACY.

>> Arnold Roy: WE JUST HAD THE 70TH REUNION IN WISCONSIN LAST WEEK. THERE WERE PEOPLE FROM MAYBE 20 OR 30 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, 250 PEOPLE SHOWED UP. A VERY NICE REUNION FROM ALL REPORTS. I WAS NOT ABLE TO BE UP THERE. THE NEXT WILL BE HERE AT TALIESIN WEST IN FIVE YEARS. SO WE HAVE REUNIONS EVERY FIVE YEARS.

>> MICHAEL: HERE IN THE VALLEY, I THINK THE BUILDING PEOPLE MOST ASSOCIATE FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT WITH IS THE GAMMAGE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS. YOU REMINDED ME IT WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR THE CAMPUS OF ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY.

>> Arnold Roy: THE AUDITORIUM WAS ORIGINALLY PART OF THE MASTER PLAN FOR GREATER DOWNTOWN BAGHDAD, DESIGNED IN 1956 AT THE REQUEST OF THE KING.

>> MICHAEL: WHAT HAPPENED?

>> Arnold Roy: ONE OF THE LITTLE THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THE MIDDLE EAST OCCASIONALLY, AND ANOTHER GROUP CAME TO POWER AND THAT WAS THE END OF THAT. THERE WAS THE DESIGN. IN 1958, GRADY GAMMAGE WANTED AN AUDITORIUM FOR ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY AND FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT SAID I HAPPEN TO HAVE A DESIGN.

>> MICHAEL: BEFORE WE HAD THE SUPERSTITION AND FREEWAYS AND THOSE SORT OF THINGS, THAT WAS THE MAIN EAST INBOUND CORRIDOR TO THE VALLEY OF THE SUN. IN FACT, IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT I SAW COMING TO PHOENIX A LONG TIME AGO. IT TRULY WAS A SIGNATURE PIECE. IT TOOK YOUR BREATH AWAY.

>> Arnold Roy: VERY STARTLING TO COME UPON GAMMAGE ANY TIME. THAT IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF A BUILDING DESIGNED BY FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BUILT BY THE FIRM OF TALIESIN ARCHITECTS, THE SUCCESSOR TO WRIGHT'S WORK. ON OUR LETTERHEAD, IT SAYS TALIESIN ARCHITECTS, SUCCESSOR TO THE PRACTICE OF FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT WHICH STARTED IN 1893. SO WE'VE DONE QUITE A FEW FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT DESIGNED BUILDINGS. I WAS THE ARCHITECT ON A CLUB HOUSE IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA COMPLETED LAST YEAR. WE ARE WORKING FOR A GROUP HERE IN SCOTTSDALE, TO COMPLETE THE SCOTTSDALE PROMENADE. THERE WILL BE A FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT DESIGN BUILDING THERE.

>> MICHAEL: I THINK WE HAVE PICTURES OF A COUPLE OF THOSE. WE HAVE THE SCOTTSDALE PROMENADE THAT YOU JUST REFERRED TO.

>> Arnold Roy: IT'S PHASE 2 OF THE SCOTTSDALE PROMENADE PROJECT, ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER SCOTTSDALE ROAD AND FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BOULEVARD. WHAT YOU SEE IN THE FOREGROUND IS THE SPIRE IS FROM THE ARIZONA STATE CAPITOL PROJECT OF 1957. THAT WILL BE A SIGNATURE FOR THE PROJECT. BEHIND IT IS THE 1947 DESIGN FOR THE VALLEY NATIONAL BANK, ORIGINALLY DESIGNED FOR TUCSON. IT WAS CALLED THE DAYLIGHT BANK BECAUSE THE OVERHEAD IS TRANSLUCENT. THE DEVELOPER WILL OFFER SPACE IN THAT BUILDING TO NOT FOR PROFITS.

>> MICHAEL: YOU MENTIONED THE NACOMA CLUB HOUSE. THAT'S A VERY RECENT PROJECT. GIVE US SOME BACKGROUND ON THAT.

>>Arnold Roy: THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR MADISON, WISCONSIN IN 1924. I HAD THIS CLIENT IN CALIFORNIA AND PROPOSED THAT DESIGN BECAUSE OF THE VERY UNUSUAL SHAPE OF THE ROOF AND IN THE AREA IN CALIFORNIA WHERE THE PROJECT WAS BUILT THERE ARE PONDEROSA TREES EVERYWHERE, SO IT WAS VERY APPROPRIATE. 1924 DESIGN, COMPLETED IN MAY OF 2001.

>> MICHAEL: AMAZING, A 75-YEAR-OLD DESIGN. THIS IS THE MINNEAPOLIS ARTS BRIDGE?

>> Arnold Roy: THAT'S THE FINE ARTS BRIDGE JUST COMPLETED IN THE SPRING. IT GOES ACROSS THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAY.

>> MICHAEL: CALLED THE ARTS BRIDGE WHY?

>> Arnold Roy: IT CONNECTS TO THE MINNEAPOLIS FINE ARTS INSTITUTE.

>> MICHAEL: AND THE CINCINNATI SHOW HOUSE?

>> Arnold Roy: THAT WAS ANOTHER PROJECT THAT WE DID.

>> MICHAEL: THERE IT IS.

>> Arnold Roy: A PARADE OF HOMES IN CINCINNATI AND THAT WAS COMPLETED LAST SPRING.

>> MICHAEL: ARNOLD ROY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> Arnold Roy: THANK YOU.

>> MICHAEL: AGAIN, A REMINDER, PART TWO OF KEN BURNS' AMERICAN STORIES: FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT AIRS TONIGHT AT 9:00 ON CHANNEL 8.

>>> TOMORROW ON "HORIZON," THE SCHOOL PERFORMANCE REPORTS ARE OUT. WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY MEAN. WE'LL ALSO HEAR FROM THOSE OPPOSED TO THE INDIAN GAMING PROPOSITIONS. WEDNESDAY, OUR AD WATCH SERIES CONTINUES TO EXAMINE POLITICAL TV ADS. AND THURSDAY, A LOOK AT THE CONGRESSIONAL RACES, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THIS MONDAY EVENING. I'M MICHAEL GRANT. HAVE A GOOD ONE.