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November 18, 2002

Host: Michael Grant
Topics:
Arizona's Hispanic population
In-Studio Guests:
Augustine Garcia, Director of the Tucson Mexico Trade Office;
Carlos Elgira, Hayden vice Mayor and Director of Leadership and Community Relations for Valle del Sol;
Perry Hill, Superintendent of the Glendale Elementary School District

>> Cary: Tonight on "Horizon," bilingual education was just one of the issues addressed at the most recent Arizona Town Hall. The focus? Arizona's Hispanic population. We'll hear from some of the participants about the recommendations. And a report on what some groups are doing to help reduce deaths of illegal immigrants along the Mexican border. Good evening, I'm Cary Pfeffer sitting in for Michael Grant. Last month at the 81st Arizona Town Hall, the theme was Arizona's Hispanics, and their evolution of influence. Their increasingly rapid growth has many implications for the state and participants at the Town Hall had an opportunity to address a number of important and often controversial issues.

>> Earnest Calderon: People often say, what do Hispanics bring to Arizona? Well, for many Hispanics, Arizona came to them. Hispanics were here long before there was an Arizona.

>> Reporter: The history and traditions of Arizona and its Hispanic population are inextricably linked. Since statehood days, that population has grown dramatically, along with a number of contributions and challenges, many of which were the focus of the most recent Town Hall. For participants like attorney Ernest Calderone, this Town Hall was an important opportunity to address critical issues such as education.

>> Earnest Calderon: The growing Hispanic population has positive and negative impacts, just like any growing population would have an impact. I think that our educational system primarily will see quite the need to ensure we are educating people so that they can better serve our community and can be taxpayers. That means we might have to educate people in a language other than just English.

>> Armando Flores: We are really becoming very rapidly a dual language state, and that whether we like it or we don't like it, it doesn't really matter. It's a fact of life. So dual language should be something that we ought to be pursuing in all of the schools, to allow the young people who speak Spanish as a first language to learn in their native language. However, transitioning during the process to becoming well-versed in English so that later on as they transition they can take their classes in English and assimilate, but still never lose their native language.

>> Reporter: Another area on which the Town Hall focused was the evolving role of Hispanics in business.

>> Armando Flores: Hispanics do have a lot to offer in every segment of our community, including the business community, and that development, mentorship, internships and generally opportunity to allow people with potential who happen to be Hispanic to grow, develop and eventually compete for jobs as higher levels is a benefit to any organization.

>> Reporter: The business community also has come to recognize Arizona's growing Hispanic population as an economic force to be reckoned with.

>> Jessica Pacheco:It's billions and billions of dollars of market power or buying power, and as the nation change, meaning its demographic changes, companies that are smart and companies that are seeing this are starting to reach out to those communities. Arizona Public Service, APS, values all of its customers. It recognizes that the demographics of Arizona is changing and that there are shifts there and we want to make sure that we're meeting the needs of all our customers.

>> Reporter: But the contribution of Hispanics to the state's economy extends far beyond their buying power to an area that many believe has not been addressed adequately.

>> Earnest Calderon: Arizonans just need to be honest with ourselves. There is a need for low-paying, low-wage labor in our economy. Without the immigrant working in our hotels and on our farms and in a lot of businesses, Arizona would not be this billion-dollar-plus economy that we have. I think people just need to be honest about that and say, these people are needed here. How can we ensure that they contribute to society without being a drain on society?

>> Reporter: As Arizona's Hispanic population continues to rapidly grow and evolve, those who represent this community are anxious to communicate the contributions and potential of their people as well as the challenges they face.

>> Earnest Calderon: I think it's important that people realize that not only do Hispanics want to play a greater role, but they want to have greater responsibility. Give us the responsibility and we will prove to those who are afraid that we're just like you. We'll take care of you. You're our neighbors. And we'll make this a better place to live.

>> Jessica Pacheco: Hispanics have a very rich culture and a very rich heritage, and they in increasing numbers in Arizona add richness to the fabric that makes up Arizona and that's not only the -- in food and dance and music, but also in language, also in folklore, and so you really need to embrace this.

>> Cary: And joining me to discuss some of the issues and recommendations from this latest Arizona Town Hall is Augie, Augustine, technicall, but we're going to call him Augie Garcia. He is the director of the Tucson Mexico Trade Office, Carlos Elgira. He's the Hayden vice Mayor and director of leadership and community relations for Valle del Sol. And Perry hill, who is the Superintendent of the Glendale Elementary School District, and we're hooking you back up. We got you back up with your microphone.

>> Augustine Garcia: I'm connected again.

>> Cary: You're in good shape. Talk a little about coming out of the Town Hall what do you feel like is the top recommendation or the top two recommendations when it comes to business relationship, jobs, that sort of thing in the Hispanic community.

>> Augustine Garcia: Let me take it back a step first. I think that the 81st Town Hall was the beginning of a dialogue between Hispanics and non-Hispanics, taking a look at what Arizona's going to look like in about 40 or 50 years and I think that what it's going to do is this dialogue is going to help us to prepare ourselves one for the other, Hispanics and not Hispanics, because at that particular time and place, Hispanics are going to be the leading population group in the State of Arizona and I think that what we need to do is we need to take a look at exactly what will the well being of the Hispanic be at that particular time and I think we need to take a look at will Hispanics share the benefits of the educational, political and economic success possibly enjoyed by other groups a little more than it is with Hispanics. I think that one of the things relating to business now that came up that I thought was very important is that many times people plan for us, people make decisions for us, and I think that we're poised and ready to make decisions for ourselves. So one of the thing I came back with from there is that we are prepared to plan and make decisions for ourselves. I feel that Hispanics need to play a more significant role in both economic development and workforce development. I think we have a better feel for what our community needs. I think that Hispanics need to be better utilized and I think that some of the benefits that we bring to the table by being -- by the nature of possibly being bilingual is going to help us if we ever implement N.A.F.T.A. and so I think we have a group of people who are prepared to participate in N.A.F.T.A., poised to participate in N.A.F.T.A., and who I think have much to offer the state. The question is, does the rest of Arizona take advantage of the talent and the strength and the wealth that we bring to the state.

>> Cary: And one of the ways that that is possible is through the political arena. Carlos, why don't we talk a little bit about that, while the numbers indicate a strong presence in the state, that influence isn't always felt at the box office.

>> Carlos Galindo-Elvira: Right. You're absolutely right, and we discussed that extensively at the Town Hall and I think there needs to be an investment made by Hispanics understanding the process and knowing what the benefits of the process are. Lot of suggestions came b for example, expanding kids voting into a Spanish process, bringing and integrating the family values that Latinos bring State of Arizona, but I think we can start to see a spark of some political hope in Arizona only two weeks ago John Laredo was named minority leader for the Democrats in the state house of representatives. So we're starting to see that momentum, Latinos are starting to pick up that flag and run across the field witness and hopefully that will be translating to numbers at the ballot box.

>> Cary: We sides the political arena there is also a major focus of attention on education and let's talk with you, Perry a little bit about that. You have not only been familiar with this issue through the Glendale school district but also previously worked in Yuma, you're familiar with the issues both rural and urban here in the State of Arizona. What was the most important thing that came out of the Town Hall as far as education?

>> Perry Hill: I think the 81st Town Hall was made for an educator, because we joke with people in real estate when they say, in real estate the three key issues, location, location, location. Well, in the 81st Town Hall, the answers and solutions came out, education, education, education. Because you really have to educate people what the situation is, and you have to educate people about merging cultures, about merging sameness, about merging differences. The other thing you have to do is educate people on how to adapt to change, but not only that, how to tolerate change and accept change. So I think education through that whole process came out very strong.

>> Cary: Are we really posed to be in a situation where progress will be made? I think sometimes people look at Town Halls, they look at group reports, they look at committee oversight and they aren't sure that there's going to be a real difference.

>> Carlos Galindo-Elvira: One of the things that I can tell you, Cary, I look at the Arizona Town Hall report as a road map. Augie made reference to that earlier and I think with the new governor, there's new opportunities for Latinos in the State of Arizona. This lays out a road map on issues that education that Perry discussed, lays out a road map on issues of education -- immigration, rather, where we can talk about a viable guest worker program and one of the things that's of interest to me, it talks about the criminal justice system and how we need to have a judiciary that reflects the diversity of our state. There is going to be an opportunity for the new governor to appoint a Supreme Court justice and we have plenty of talented Latinos in the State of Arizona that are ready to serve and I can name you one, Ernie Calderone. We are ready and I think that this report handed to the governor is a new opportunity for Latinos and non-Latinos in the State of Arizona.

>> Cary: If we look forward to other things that are going to happen, you talked, Augie, about the population numbers and how that's reflected. People have to not only understand what those numbers mean, but also not be put off by them, not be frightened by those numbers?

>> Augustine Garcia: Exactly. I think that one of the things that was very clear at the Town Hall is I think we as Hispanics aspire to the same things -- I mean, we want to have a -- a happy family, a safe home, a good place to work. We aspire to the very same things that mainstream aspires to. Sometimes it's not necessarily attributed to us, and there's probably the expectation that we as Hispanics have an expectation -- expectation that's not quite at the same level and it's not true. I think one of the things that might have shocked people a little bit in this last election, referring back to what Carlos mentioned, is the fact that at least in four congressional districts we were poise to do possibly walk away with four Hispanic congressmen and I think that woke up the state a little bit. I think it might not have happened this time around but I think we're poised in the future. I think in the next ten years, I think that's going to do it. I think that the -- what happened in Tucson with having Raul Grijalva elected, I think shifted people -- it sort of shifted -- forced people to shift their paradigms to think in a little different than they were thinking before. And I think that we need to shift that and create that -- another shift. When we talk about -- not only the political influence, but our capacity also in the business area.

>> Cary: And talk a little bit about the budget pressures, Perry, because when we talk about education, hoping people are moving forward, at the same time, what we hear day in and day out is that every municipality, every school district, every city is under a tremendous amount of budget pressure.

>> Perry Hill: Tremendous pressure, but we can't let that stop us. For instance, as Carlos talked about the road map, there were several things laid out for education that's very important. Probably the top two number one was the drop-out rate of Hispanic students, running somewhere around 42%, and that is not acceptable. But you know when you visit school districts, especially in the Valley, you have outstanding programs, Mesa has programs, Phoenix union has outstanding programs, they have vocational --

>> Cary: Designed specifically to keep these kids in school.

>> Perry Hill: Designed specifically to keep those students in school. The problem would be the resources. We have to remember that the drop-out, it's not a process. It is a process, it's not just an event. We have to go back down to the elementary schools, because we can identify those students immediately in the elementary schools. So the 81st Town Hall talked about all-day preschool, all-day kindegarten, which we know leads to literacy to third grade and what students do in third grade has a great deal to predict. We have partnerships with high school and elementary, identifying elementary students that may not be ready for high school and joining partnerships for to that happen. The other big one I was really happy with and amazed is the support for bilingual education and what --

>> Cary: Which has been such a hot potato.

>> Perry Hill: What Town Hall is coming out and saying is you must used child's culture, language. It's not only culture but it's self-concept for those children. But it's educationally sound. The other thing to keep children in and people look at education as lifelong learning. Not only looking just at graduating from high school but looking at K-20, looking at career and vocational opportunities that they would have. Town hall talked about adult education. How to bring parents into the education process, how to provide education for them in language and education that they could help their particular students. They talked about teacher training.

>> Cary: Is there going to be money for this stuff?

>> Perry Hill: That is yet to be seen, you know, how we're going to adjust our budget crisis. But these are things that we have implemented right now. We have success stories in education we have implemented now and literally by this story we get out the public is going to have to recognize that we do have the tools and we do have the skils and we do have the knowledge for this to happen. We have to have the resources to support it.

>> Cary: Because some of it is just in sort of an incubator form.

>> Perry Hill: Absolutely.

>> Cary: Carlos, you made mention of the fact that crime issues come up too many times when people hear about the Hispanic population, they're hearing bit in negative terms. Sometimes directly in crime related terms. Talk a little bit about what came out of the Town Hall and hoping to address that.

>> Carlos Galindo-Elvira: Some of the things that came out of the Town Hall, Carr yea, were the need to put the own onus on the media that we're not just the criminals, we're not maids, we're Nate just the agricultural workers, we are '' successful individuals in different areas of our society. And once we start to promote the good things that is happening in the Latino community, I think a lot of other things going to fall into place but you make a very good point about the criminal justice system. There are a lot of issues happening and a lot talked about law enforcement, specialized training in Spanish, showing that appreciation for the language, showing appreciation for diversity. A lot of our undocumented aliens may be afraid to call the police because of their legal status, yet the crime on them is skyrocketing. So we have to do more educating in the community and promote programs in law enforcement at all levels to benefit the entire community.

>> Cary: Talk a little bit about, we're going to hear more on issues at the border specifically and border crossers later on in this half hour, but talk a little bit about what came out of the Tucson Howell as far as addressing that particular issue and hoping to better understand what's happening there.

>> Augustine Garcia: I think there was consensus there needed to be some guest worker program but it needed to be an equitable guest worker program, not a guest worker program that was one-sided. I think that the fear and the opposition to a guest worker program were the abuses that took place during the BRASERO program and so as a result of that, people have been somewhat fearful. I think that the recognition of the amounts of the -- the quotas that are set now for immigration in the United States are unrealistic, for one. And I think that we're unrealistic in the way we accept people. Unfortunately, we take advantage of folks that come across the border and four fourthly, the concerns that exists because of the number of deaths that exist. I think if 150 people of a different color were dieing out here by superstition mountain, you'd have an uproar. But I think the fact they are immigrants coming into the United States, and they're dieing out in the Southern Arizona desert, it doesn't seem to arouse the same kind of concern about it. I think that the other part about it is I think you asked the question earlier about the budget cuts. One of the things that's nice about growing up in an environment of adversity is that what it does is it kind of tests your mettle. Sometimes when you're used to adversity on a constant basis, it tempers the steel and sometimes those of us who have have our steel tempered more than once by adversity, tend to cut through things that maybe somebody else doesn't. So I think we need to look at the -- at the -- our very origin and the route we travel to get where we are as a plus because we did learn to do it the hard way and handle those things.

>> Cary: We're going to give you the last 10 seconds, Carlos.

>> Carlos Galindo-Elvira: Well, let me just tell you, one of the things that came out in the Arizona Town Hall was a discussion about leadership. As our population grows, so does the need for leadership and there are organizations like my own have the Hispanic organization institute. We need to promote a leadership programs, support leadership programs for this vastly growing community.

>> Cary: Gentlemen, thank you all and best of luck in those efforts.

>>> It has been a particularly lethal year on the Arizona-Mexico border. We talked about it there just a second ago. A record number of illegal immigrants have met their death. But as we'll see in this report from producer Ted Robbins, controversy over how to best deal with the problem rages on.

>> Reporter: Grave markers in the Pima County public cemetery, dusty reminders of a record year of death in the desert. 164 people perished crossing from Mexico into the United States during the federal fiscal year, which ended October 1st. Including this woman, known only as Jane Doe.

>> Norma Price: HOLA!

>> Reporter: Norma Price is a retired physician, a member of the recently formed Samaritan patrol. Once a week with a partner, she searches in places where border crossers are known to hide. She and her partners travel with water, food and medical supplies. Sometimes they are too late.

>> Norma Price: You see evidence of the people there. You can see where they have been. You can see where they have camped. And then you read in the paper that four people died you know either the day before you were there or the day you were there, and you weren't in the right place or they didn't come in the area where you were patrolling, so I think that in my mind I'm thinking the whole time, you know, I hope we find someone.

>> Reporter: There is, indeed, plenty of evidence border crossers have been here. They were likely picked up by smugglers who took them in vehicles to cities like Tucson and Phoenix. The U.S. border patrol alone rescued nearly 500 people this year, including this group which came more than 1500 miles from the state of Guerrero in southern Mexico. They said they were headed for work in Phoenix when they were found by members of the border patrol search, trauma and rescue team known as border star. They had been walking in the desert for three days and three nights.

>> Brad Rubinoff: We're watching the gentleman in green there pretty closely right now. He's stated that he had been without water for a few days. (in Spanish).

>> Reporter: Agent Brad Rubinoff says finding so many people or worse bodies takes an emotional toll on him.

>> Brad Rubinoff: In the desert, there is no mercy, and so it's difficult to deal with sometimes, especially when we've seen it so often. You sometimes tend to lay awake at night thinking about it.

>> Reporter: Last year another group closely linked with Samaritan patrol began leaving aid in the desert, humane borders started with three water stations. It now has more than 30 water stations, including this one being set occupy private land.

>> John Fife: We'll see you back in Tucson.

>> Reporter: The reverend John Fife is a Presbyterian minister. He says the deaths continue increasing because since 1994 U.S. immigration policy has closed off the easy places to cross in cities and forced people into the desert.

>> John Fife: There is evidence that the border patrol when they devised this strategy because thought that by changing the migration pattern into these hazardous areas and knowing that deaths would occur thought that that would be a deterrent to migration back and forth. But far from that, what they have done is create a record number of deaths, each succeeding year that this strategy has been in place.

>> Reporter: David Aguilar is chief of the Tucson sector of the border patrol.

>> David Aguilar: The policy of the United States border patrol and the U.S. Government is to prevent illegal entrance through deterrence in the past it was through areas populated areas, San Diego, Douglas, Nogales and areas such as this.

>> Reporter: But Aguilar doesn't blame the policy for the increased deaths. He blames human smugglers, known as coyotes.

>> David Aguilar: The illegal alien is going to make a decision to come into this country. He or she will not make a decision to come through some of the most dangerous area known to man. It is the smuggler who when they take the responsibility of guidings these people into the country that lead these people through these dangerous areas.

>> Reporter: These men say they and their group were mislead by the smuggler they hired. They did tell us what we already knew he says, that it wouldn't be easy, but what happened is they tricked us. They told us it was only going to be eight hours. After they are healthy, the border patrol will transport these men back to Mexico. Samaritan patrol members say they will also provide aid, but they will not transport crossers to a safer place. That, says David Aguilar, would be illegal.

>> David Aguilar: Anything in furtherance of the illegal entry as it relates to people into the interior of the country is clear.

>> Reporter: It's illegal?

>> David Aguilar: It is illegal, yes.

>> Reporter: Samaritan patrol members also claim no responsibility to turn illegal crossers into the border patrol. But Glen Spencer intends to report every illegal immigrant he can. He heads another new organization, this one opposed to all immigration from Mexico. He calls his organization the American border patrol. Spencer is organizing citizens in Southern Arizona.

>> Glen Spencer: Through what we call our bird network. Bird standing for border intrusion reporting data. And the people who do that are members of American border patrol. We call them our hawk eyes. We then have people working on a computer. The information that will be coming in, we will be using a global positioning satellite systems to get the locations by longitude and latitude.

>> Reporter: This is a videotape of border crossers taken by local rancher.

>> Glen Spencer: Look at that line. Looks like an army.

>> Reporter: Glen Spencer opposes the efforts of the Samaritan patrol and humane borders.

>> Glen Spencer: I think that they're misguided because they cannot put out enough water, they cannot put out enough people to save all of these people, and what it does is creates a false sense of hope. These people think they're going to be rescued, the word goes out, you know how that happens, rumors go, oh, they have people up there who will save you. Can you hear the coyotes telling their people, oh, give me a thousand dollars, I'll send you across the border. If something happens, they have humane borders up there. They will save you.

>> Reporter: Samaritan patrolmen Jessica Alandia says even if she saves one life, it's worth it.

>> Jessica Alandia: I am trying to make a difference, a very small drop for -- in a big ocean of a problem. And if we can encourage others to help us, we can encourage the people crossing the border to know that we have -- there are humanitarian people here, there are compassionate people, they're a loving people, that we look at all people the same regardless of what side of the border you live on, we're all humans first.

>> Reporter: With the arrival of fall, the desert is beginning to cool and the deaths will decrease. Giving Pima County time to clear space in the public cemetery for future graves.

>> Cary: Tomorrow on "Horizon," we'll examine the issues surrounding recent police shootings in the Valley. Wednesday, the Arizona Supreme Court takes up oral arguments in an important death penalty case here in the state. And Thursday, we'll look at how all of us could be affected by falling state-shared revenues to cities. Thanks very much for watching. I'm Cary Pfeffer. Michael Grant will be back on the program later this week.