Other transcripts

Transcripts

March 29, 2002

Host: Michael Grant
Topic: "The Journalists' Roundtable"
In-Studio Guests: Paul Giblin, Scottsdale Bureau Chief for The Tribune newspapers;
Mary Jo Pitzl, capitol reporter for The Arizona Republic;
Robbie Sherwood, political reporter for The Arizona Republic

>> Michael: IT'S FRIDAY, MARCH 29th, 2002. IN THE HEADLINES THIS WEEK, FOLLOWING A STADIUM SUMMIT AT THE CAPITOL, THE TOURISM AND SPORTS AUTHORITY HAS A NEW DEADLINE TO FIND A SITE FOR THE CARDINALS FOOTBALL STADIUM. STATE LAWMAKERS ARE SET TO MEET IN SPECIAL SESSION NEXT WEEK TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF INDIAN GAMING. AND THE MUCH ANTICIPATED ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO'S POLITICAL FUTURE HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR A WEEK.

>>> GOOD EVENING, I'M MICHAEL GRANT, AND THIS IS THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

>>> JOINING ME TO TALK ABOUT THESE AND OTHER STORIES ARE PAUL GIBLIN, SCOTTSDALE BUREAU CHIEF FOR "THE TRIBUNE" NEWSPAPERS. MARY JO PITZL, CAPITOL REPORTER FOR "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC." AND ROBBIE SHERWOOD, POLITICAL REPORTER FOR "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC."

>>> ON MONDAY, SENATE PRESIDENT RANDALL GNANT HELD A STADIUM SUMMIT AT THE CAPITOL TO TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS OF THE TOURISM AND SPORTS AUTHORITY. PAUL, ARE WE MUCH CLOSER TO GETTING THIS THING RESOLVED?

>> Paul Giblin: I THINK WE MIGHT BE. WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DID IS EXPRESS A FEELING THAT A LOT OF US HAVE, WE'RE AWFULLY TIRED OF THIS NOW. IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME, BY SOME COUNTS AS EARLY AS 1996. THEY GAVE THEM A DEADLINE, THEY SAID FIGURE IT OUT BY JANUARY 1st, OR IT'S GOING TO GO TO THE LEGISLATURE AND THEY'LL TRY AND SORT IT OUT.

>> Michael: JULY 1st.

>> Paul Giblin: I'M SORRY, JULY 1st.

>> Michael: I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE IMPATIENCE HERE. I'M NOT SURE, THOUGH, WHAT HAPPENS ON JULY 1. DOES THE LEGISLATURE ASSUME CONTROL OF THE PROCESS?

>> Paul Giblin: THAT'S WHAT THEY THREATENED THAT THEY WOULD DO. THEY WOULD ASSUME CONTROL, PERHAPS PUT IT BACK TO THE VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THAT'S GOING TO GO. I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING, IT WAS A MOVE JUST TO GET THE TSA TO FIGURE OUT THAT THEY NEED TO GET ON THE JOB, AND THEY NEED TO GET THIS THING DONE.

>> Michael: MARY JO, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: THANK YOU.

>> Michael: SOME LEGISLATION IS MOVING, RIGHT? THAT WOULD ALLOW TRIBES TO SPONSOR AND DO OTHER THINGS?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: YES, THERE WAS A BILL HEARD THIS WEEK, SORT OF AN ENRON STYLE HEARING WHERE EVERYBODY GOT TO TAKE THEIR WHACKS AT THE TSA AND THEN THEY FELL IN LINE AND VOTED TO GIVE TRIBES AS WELL AS MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS THE AUTHORITY TO SPONSOR SITES THAT WOULD ADDRESS THE ARGUMENT, THE LEGAL ROADBLOCK THAT MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY RICK ROMLEY THREW UP ON THE GILA RIVER SITE.

>> Michael: WHAT ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER CONCERNS? I KNOW THAT THE CONCERNS HAVE BEEN EXPRESSED ABOUT TRIBES DISCLOSING ENOUGH FINANCIAL INFORMATION, AND IS THAT ALL ROLLED INTO THE LEGISLATION AS WELL?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: NO, THEY SET THAT ASIDE FOR THE PURPOSES OF LETTING THE SUMMIT MOVE AHEAD. WHETHER LAWMAKERS WILL BE BACK WITH AMENDMENTS TO THIS LEGISLATION THAT WILL REQUIRE FURTHER FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE REMAINS TO BE SEEN. I THINK IT WAS FELT THAT COULD BE A DEAL KILLER. THE TSA HAS ARGUED AND SOME OF THE TRIBES THAT THEY HAVE WORKED THIS OUT ALREADY THROUGH SOME AGREEMENTS, BUT WHETHER IT RISES TO THE MUSTER TO MEET THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE COUNTY ATTORNEY ROMLEY REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

>> Paul Giblin: THERE'S ALSO SOME DISCUSSION THAT EVEN IF THE STATE WERE TO IMPOSE THESE NEW LAWS, IT MIGHT END UP GOING TO THE COURTS ANYWAY TO TEST THIS INDIAN SOVEREIGNTY THING, SO IT MIGHT NOT BE THE QUICK FIX THAT THE STATE LEGISLATORS ENVISIONED IT TO BE.

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: NOTHING IS QUICK WHEN IT COMES TO THE TSA. THE BILL ALSO DOES HAVE SOME NON-FOOTBALL PROVISIONS IN IT THAT WILL MOVE UP THE FUNDING FOR YOUTH AND SPORTS FACILITIES, WHICH MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE IS WHY THE THING PASSED IN NOVEMBER OF 2000 TO BEGIN WITH. IT ONLY MOVES IT UP ONE NOTCH, THOUGH, ON THE FUNDING SCHEME RIGHT AHEAD OF THE TSA'S OPERATIONAL BUDGET. IT WILL REQUIRE MORE FREQUENT AUDITS OF THE TSA.

>> Michael: ANY FEELING OF -- I WANT TO SAY URGENCY OUT THERE -- BUT THAT'S NOT EXACTLY THE RIGHT WORD, ROBBIE. WHAT IS THE FEELING OUT THERE, IS IT THE FED UP THING, LET'S GET ON WITH IT? THERE HAVE BEEN CERTAINLY CONTINGENTS OF LAWMAKERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE WHOLE THING CRASH AND BURN?

>> Robbie Sherwood: I THINK AS LONG AS YOU DON'T HAVE A REAL CLEAR DIRECTION AND UNABLE TO PREDICT WHETHER IT'S GOING TO FINISH, WHAT'S BUILDING IN -- TO MY SENSE -- IS AN OVERRIDING SENSE OF CYNICISM ABOUT THE ENTIRE THING, ABOUT BEGINNING TO QUESTION WHETHER YOU EVER WILL SEE GROUND BROKEN ON A STADIUM IN ARIZONA OR WILL SOMETHING UNFORESEEN HAPPEN AND UNDERMINE THE WHOLE THING ONCE AGAIN AND SEND THIS BACK TO SQUARE ONE? I CAN SEE THINGS LIKE THAT ENDLESSLY REPEATING THEMSELVES IN THE FUTURE.

>> Paul Giblin: IT WASN'T A TOUGH MISSION TO BEGIN WITH. I MEAN, THEY CREATE AN ENTIRE STATE BODY WITH ONE JOB, BUILD A STADIUM. WE HAVE A GUY BY THE NAME OF TED FERRIS WHO CAME OFF THE GOVERNOR'S STAFF WITH ONE JOB, BUILD A STADIUM. HE DIDN'T FIGURE OUT THOSE DEAL KILLER ISSUES. IS THE STADIUM IN THE WAY OF THE AIRPORT? IS THERE AN ISSUE WITH THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE INDIANS? I MEAN THESE ARE BASIC QUESTIONS. CAN HE GET KENO HAWKER, THE MAYOR OF MESA, ON BOARD TO DO THESE THINGS? THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT ANYONE ELSE BUILDING A BUILDING WOULD ASK OUT OF THE GET-GO. THE TSA DEMONSTRATED THAT IT CAN'T DO THOSE THINGS AND THAT'S WHY YOU GET THE FRUSTRATION.

>> Robbie Sherwood: THE GOVERNOR EXPRESSED THE SAME LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION THAT EVERYBODY ELSE EXPRESSED. SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, IF I HAD MY WAY, WE'D REFURBISH THE SUN DEVIL STADIUM AND BE DONE WITH IT.

>> Paul Giblin: YOU HAVE DOZENS OF PEOPLE AT THE STATE MAKING FAR LESS MONEY THAN TED FERRIS WHO ARE DOING FAR MORE, AND REALLY, PROJECTS THAT AFFECT PEOPLE MORE THAN A STADIUM. IT'S MIND BOGGLING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT IT CAN'T GET DONE.

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: I DON'T KNOW IF I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT ASSESSMENT. OTHER PEOPLE HAVE LOOKED AT THE WHOLE PROCESS AND SAID THIS THING WAS FLAWED FROM THE BEGINNING BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A TAX WITHOUT A SITE. WHEN IS THE LAST TIME SOMEBODY HAS GONE OUT AND APPROVED A TAX FOR A STADIUM SITE WITHOUT KNOWING WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE? AND THEREIN LIES A LOT OF THE PROBLEM, NOBODY KNEW WHERE THE STADIUM WOULD BE, SO YOU SET UP A COMPETITION AND AS YOU'VE SEEN FROM ROUND ONE, PEOPLE BEAT THEMSELVES UP, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING FROM ROUND TWO. THE COMPETITORS BEAT EACH OTHER UP. I THINK THERE'S SOME FLAWS IN THE ENABLING LEGISLATION.

>> Michael: IT'S AN INTERESTING POINT, MARY JO, FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE MAJOR HURDLE WOULD HAVE -- AND IT CERTAINLY WAS -- WAS JUST GETTING THE TAX APPROVED, AND THEN YOU HAD JUST AN INCREDIBLE SERIES OF EVENTS AFTER YOU DID THAT.

>> Robbie Sherwood: IF YOU COULD ROLL THE TAX INTO A COMBINATION STADIUM, CASINO AND GENOMIC SLAB, WE MIGHT SOLVE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS FACING THE STATE TODAY.

>> Paul Giblin: TO ANSWER MARY JO'S QUESTION, THE MODEL OF THE STADIUM FUNDING WAS BASED ON THE SPRING TRAINING FACILITIES. THE STATE FUNDS TWO-THIRDS OF THAT. THE INDIVIDUAL CITIES FUND A THIRD OF THAT, AND GENERALLY THAT HAS GONE TOWARD THE INFRASTRUCTURE. SO THE THINKING WAS IF YOU HAD A FREE STADIUM FLOATING OUT THERE, ALL OF THE CITIES WOULD RUSH UP AND DO THE MONEY THAT WAS NEEDED TO GET THE INFRASTRUCTURE DONE. UNLIKE SPRING TRAINING GAMES, THERE AREN'T 30 GAMES A YEAR, AND IT COSTS A LOT MORE TO BUILD A FOOTBALL STADIUM THAN A SPRING TRAINING BASEBALL STADIUM.

>> Michael: INCIDENTALLY, LET ME CYCLE BACK TO YOUR MESA COMMENT. ARE THEY LOCKED IN DEADLOCK FOREVER ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE? WHAT HAPPENS THERE?

>> Paul Giblin: THAT'S HARD TO ANSWER. THERE'S A LOT OF PERSONALITIES INVOLVED. THERE'S A LOT THAT'S GOING ON BELOW THE SURFACE. QUITE HONESTLY, I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON BELOW THE SURFACE, THOUGH I SUSPECT THERE'S QUITE A BIT. THEY MAY BE ABLE TO WORK IT OUT. THEY MAY NOT. WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS BILL BIDWILL AND KENO HAWKER IN A GAME OF CHICKEN. THEY ARE HEADING AT EACH OTHER AND THEY ARE WAITING TO SEE WHO IS GOING TO BUILD THE OTHER ONE A STADIUM FIRST. I'LL TELL YOU, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE KENO HAWKER. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO BILL BIDWILL TO REACH IN HIS BACK POCKET AND THROW IN A COUPLE MILLION BUCKS TO GET THE JOB DONE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN OR NOT.

>> Michael: IF THEY ARE PLAYING CHICKEN THEY OUGHT TO CONSULT WITH NASH ABOUT THE CHICKEN ECONOMICS THEORY. THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL MIND MOVIE THEME. WE DID A MOVIE THEME SHOW LAST WEEK.

>>> FOR THE SECOND TIME THIS YEAR, STATE LAWMAKERS ARE SCHEDULED TO MEET IN SPECIAL SESSION STARTING NEXT WEEK TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF INDIAN GAMING. MARY JO, DO YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A QUICK SESSION?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: NO.

>> Michael: OKEY-DOKEY. WHY THAT ANSWER?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: I CHECKED TODAY, THE MOMENTUM FOR THIS WILL START IN THE SENATE, AND THE SENATE WILL START THE SPECIAL SESSION MONDAY, AND AS PRESIDENT GNANT SAID, THEY WILL GAVEL IT IN AND GAVEL IT OUT. THERE ARE NO BILLS INTRODUCED. WE DID SEE THE GOVERNOR'S LEGISLATION YESTERDAY. PRESIDENT GNANT HAS HIS OWN RESOLUTION THAT WOULD ALLOW -- A SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION -- THAT WOULD ALLOW THE TRACKS A PIECE OF THE GAMING ACTION AND THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN INTRODUCED EITHER. YOU'VE GOT TWO PRETTY POLARIZED CAMPS WITHOUT LEGISLATION IN THE HOPPER YET.

>> Michael: THE COMPACTS THAT HAD BEEN ARRIVED AT, BRIEFLY TO RECAP, YOU'VE GOT THE ABILITY TO TRANSFER SLOT MACHINES AND BASICALLY MAKE THE URBAN CASINOS LARGER. YOU GET SOME MONEY OUT TO TRIBES THAT ARE NOT SITUATED IN SUCH, LET'S SAY, GAMING BENEFICIAL AREAS. ONE OTHER MAJOR COMPONENT, THEY ALLOW THE BLACKJACK TABLES. I TAKE IT SOMEBODY, THOUGH, SOMEPLACE IS ATTEMPTING TO WRITE UP A BILL THAT WOULD TRACK THOSE BASIC COMPONENT PARTS AND TOSS THAT IN THE HOPPER?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: OH, YES. YES.

>> Michael: IS THE FEELING -- I KNOW THE GOVERNOR WANTED AN UP OR DOWN VOTE ON IT. HOW LIKELY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: THAT'S HARD TO SAY. SHE STILL WANTS AN UP OR DOWN VOTE BECAUSE THE WORD FROM THE 9th FLOOR IS THESE ARE VERY DELICATELY NEGOTIATED COMPACTS. IT'S BASICALLY A HOUSE OF CARDS, MAYBE NOT THE BEST ANALOGY, BUT IF YOU MOVE A PIECE OR TWO, EVERYTHING IS GOING TO FALL APART. THAT'S WHY THEY WANT LAWMAKERS TO RATIFY THIS. THE GOVERNOR GOT SENATOR McCAIN TO WEIGH IN ON THIS. HE IS A CO-AUTHOR OF THE INDIAN GAMING REGULATORY ACT THAT SET UP THE FRAMEWORK FOR THIS IN THE '80s.

>> Michael: RIGHT.

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: AND McCAIN, TOO, GAVE HIS FOND WISHES THAT THEY WOULD RATIFY THIS. LAWMAKERS DON'T LIKE BEING ASKED TO DO A YES OR NO VOTE, AND THERE IS SOME RESERVATION ABOUT IS THE STATE GETTING ENOUGH MONEY. OF COURSE, YOU'VE GOT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE PHILOSOPHICALLY OPPOSED TO GAMING. SO THE LIKELIHOOD OF THIS NOT GETTING TINKERED WITH IS VERY SLIM.

>> Michael: THERE IS A BUDGET ISSUE ON THIS, ROBBIE; CORRECT?

>> Robbie Sherwood: RIGHT. THE GOVERNOR HAS PENCILED IN $40 MILLION IN THE LAST TWO QUARTERS OF 2003 FROM GAMING REVENUE TO HELP BALANCE A BILLION DOLLAR SHORTFALL. IF THINGS GET COMPLICATED, THEY MAY HAVE TO FIND THAT $40 MILLION SOMEWHERE ELSE.

>> Michael: AND I SUPPOSE YOU'VE GOT A VARIETY OF COMPETING FORCES HERE. YOU'VE GOT LEGISLATORS WHO DON'T LIKE IT AT ALL. YOU'VE GOT OTHER LEGISLATORS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT. WHAT ABOUT SENATE PRESIDENT RANDALL GNANT? COULD HE MOVE BOTH? COULD HE SAY, WELL, FINE, THOSE COMPACTS ARE OKAY BY ME, BUT I ALSO WANT TO MOVE MY TRACK LEGISLATION TO THE BALLOT? ARE THOSE POSITIONS NECESSARILY INCONSISTENT?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: WELL, THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. I SUSPECT WHAT HE WOULD SAY HIS TRACK RESOLUTION INCLUDES INDIAN GAMING. IN FACT, IT CUTS THE STATE A BIGGER SHARE OF PROCEEDS FROM INDIAN GAMING WHILE ALSO BRINGING IN THE TRACKS. BUT I SUPPOSE IN A PERFECT WORLD, THERE IS NOTHING THAT WOULD PRECLUDE HIM FROM VOTING ON BOTH, ALTHOUGH HIS PROPOSAL DEALS WITH TRACKS AND TRIBES, WHEREAS THE GOVERNOR'S DEALS EXCLUSIVELY WITH TRIBES.

>> Michael: THE HOTEL INDUSTRY WEIGHS IN AND SAYS IT'S OKAY BY US. WHY DO THEY DO THAT?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN GUARANTEED $4 MILLION FROM INDIAN GAMING REVENUES THAT WILL GO TO PROMOTE ARIZONA TOURISM, AND ALL THOSE TOURISTS HAVE TO HAVE A PLACE TO STAY.

>> Michael: OKAY. FOLLOW THE MONEY. I UNDERSTAND. SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE SPECIAL SESSION WILL RUN CONCURRENT WITH THE REGULAR SESSION, AND DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH WAITING FOR A BILL TO PASS ANY TIME SOON?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: RIGHT, THERE IS NOT GREAT ENTHUSIASM FOR THIS ALL ACROSS THE LEGISLATURE. EVEN HOUSE SPEAKER WEIERS IS FEELING THAT LAWMAKERS ARE LOSING THEIR FOCUS. THEY HAVE A BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET SHORTFALL TO ADDRESS, AND HE IS CONCERNED THAT THEY ARE GETTING OFF THAT TOPIC.

>> Michael: PAUL, SOME BREAKING NEWS THIS AFTERNOON THAT RELATED TO A SITUATION THAT STARTED IN THE LEGISLATURE OR RUMORS THAT STARTED CIRCULATING IN THE LEGISLATURE IN THE FALL SPECIAL SESSION, ON PHIL GEIGER, THE HEAD OF THE CAPITAL FACILITIES, SCHOOL CAPITAL FACILITIES BOARD.

>> Paul Giblin: RIGHT. THIS IS A STORY THAT MARK FLATTEN, A FREQUENT GUEST ON THIS SHOW, BROKE IN "THE TRIBUNE." PHIL GEIGER, AS YOU MENTIONED, HAD A POSITION WITH THE STATE RUNNING THE SCHOOLS. HE ALSO HAD A LITTLE SIDE WORK. HE DID CONSULTING WORK WITH COMPANIES THAT SUPPLIED BUSINESSES OR STATE AGENCIES JUST LIKE THE KIND THAT HE WAS RUNNING. THE GOVERNOR GOT WIND OF THIS, AND ASKED HIM TO CONSIDER WHETHER THAT WAS APPROPRIATE OR NOT. HE THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND I SUPPOSE AFTER READING "THE TRIBUNE" THIS MORNING THOUGHT EVEN HARDER AND RESIGNED THIS AFTERNOON.

>> Michael: YOU'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT HIS LETTER OF RESIGNATION, ROBBIE. WHAT'S HIS SHOT ON THE WAY OUT THE DOOR?

>> Robbie Sherwood: OH, THAT I WAS GOING TO BE LEAVING ANYWAY, BUT IF YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO PERSIST IN ASKING QUESTIONS LIKE THIS AND UNFAIRLY TAINTING MY REPUTATION, I'LL LEAVE SOONER THAN I PLANNED, WHICH WAS THE END OF THE TERM. THAT'S WHAT HE SAID. BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR FINALLY GOT SOMEWHAT FED UP WITH HIS CONNECTIONS TO THE BUSINESSES THAT ARE SUPPLYING TECHNOLOGY AND EQUIPMENT TO SOME OF THESE SCHOOLS. I DON'T THINK THAT THEY'VE SHOWN A LOT OF FINANCIAL CONNECTIONS, BUT I THINK THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOUND MORE THAN ABOUT $3,000, BUT -- AND IN A SENSE CLEARED DR. GEIGER OF ANY REAL MALFEASANCE OR WRONGDOING, BUT IN THE SAME BREATH SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE SMELLS AND WE'RE REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH THESE COMPANIES, AND I THINK THAT MAY HAVE FORCED THE GOVERNOR TO GIVE HIM AN ULTIMATUM TO CUT YOUR TIES WITH THESE PRIVATE ORGANIZATIONS OR RESIGN. I THINK HIS TIES ARE TOO MANY AND HE GOT AN ULTIMATUM -- A DEAL HE COULDN'T COME BACK ON. HE ALMOST HAD TO QUIT.

>> Michael: WHEN THESE RUMORS STARTED SURFACING LAST OCTOBER/NOVEMBER IN RELATION TO THE SPECIAL SESSION, YOU ASKED GEIGER ABOUT THEM, DID YOU NOT?

>> Robbie Sherwood: I ASKED, YES, WE ASKED HIM ABOUT A NUMBER OF, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T THE ONLY AREA IN WHICH HE HAS SPARKED CONTROVERSY. THERE IS ALSO COMPLAINTS ABOUT HIS AUTOCRATIC NATURE FOR DOLING OUT MONEY FOR NEW SCHOOLS. NO ONE WILL GO ON THE RECORD TO SPEAK AGAINST HIM, AND SO SOME OF THOSE COMPLAINTS FELL APART. NOW WE HAVE A WHISTLE BLOWER WHO SPOKE TO "THE TRIBUNE" WHO SHOWED THAT HE DID HAVE THE CONNECTION FROM THESE COMPANIES. HE DENIED IT STRAIGHT UP. I ASKED HIM, THERE'S A RUMOR THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU'RE ON BOARDS -- YOU SERVE ON BOARDS FOR COMPANIES THAT PROVIDE TECHNOLOGY TO THE SCHOOLS. HE SAID NO. I SAID, HAVE YOU EVER. HE SAID NO.

>> Michael: ALL RIGHT. WELL, THE LEGISLATURE IS STILL PREOCCUPIED, MARY JO, WITH BUDGET MATTERS. WE USUALLY FOCUS ON THE EXPENSE SIDE OF THIS EQUATION, BUT THERE IS SOME ATTENTION, AT LEAST, ATTEMPTING TO BE GIVEN TO THE REVENUE SIDE OF THE EQUATION. WHAT'S THE LATEST STATUS ON THE SALES TAX?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: THIS IS THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD, AND IT'S BEING DRIVEN BY REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CAMAROT, A DEMOCRAT FROM PRESCOTT, AND RIGHT BY HIS SIDE IS REPRESENTATIVE JOHN LORADO FROM PHOENIX, BOTH DEMOCRATS. THEY HAVE A BILL THAT WOULD ELIMINATE THE EXEMPTIONS IN THE SALES TAX CODE FOR VARIOUS ITEMS THAT ARIZONANS PURCHASE. THEY ALSO WANT TO START IMPOSING A TAX ON VARIOUS SERVICES. WE'VE NOT HAD SERVICE TAXES IN ARIZONA. THIS IS A BRAVE NEW WORLD. THESE IDEAS HAVE BEEN SCOFFED AT BUT CAMAROT HAS BEEN AT IT SINCE LAST SUMMER. THE IDEA IS STARTING TO GAIN SOME TRACTION. HE CLAIMS THERE ARE REPUBLICANS THAT LIKE THE IDEA BUT THEY ARE NOT READY TO COME FORWARD AND VOICE THEIR SUPPORT.

>> Michael: THIS WOULD REQUIRE TWO-THIRDS?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: YES, IT WOULD.

>> Michael: RIGHT?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: BECAUSE IT WOULD PUT MORE REVENUE BACK INTO THE STATE FUND.

>> Michael: REALISTICALLY, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE FACT THAT THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR, AND I UNDERSTAND IT MAY BE GAINING A LITTLE BIT MORE TRACTION, BUT IS IT GAINING TWO-THIRDS TRACTION?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR, MICHAEL. I DON'T THINK SO, BUT THERE WAS AN INTERESTING SIGN OF HOW IT'S STARTING TO GRAB HOLD, PRECEDING THIS DEBATE ON TUESDAY, LAWMAKERS IN THE HOUSE HAD A BILL THAT THEY ACTUALLY KILLED, A PROPOSAL TO ADD ANOTHER EXEMPTION TO THE TAX CODE. THEY SAID REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ALIKE SAID THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BE ADDING EXEMPTIONS. SO THIS MESSAGE IS STARTING TO GET OUT THERE. NOW, I THINK WE'LL END THE SESSION WITH A COUPLE OF EXEMPTIONS PASSED IN THE SENATE. PRESIDENT GNANT HAS TWO THAT HE'S SO FAR SUCCESSFULLY MOVING THROUGH.

>> Robbie Sherwood: BUT YOU HAD 12 REPUBLICAN SENATORS COME OUT AND HOLD A PRESS CONFERENCE SAYING, YOU KNOW, OVER THEIR DEAD BODY WOULD THEY VOTE FOR A TAX INCREASE. AS LONG AS IT'S CONSTRUED AS A TAX INCREASE, IT NEEDS A TWO-THIRDS VOTE. IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Michael: YEAH, I'M DOING SOME FAST MATH HERE, 30 MINUS 12 I THINK IS LESS THAN 20. IT PROBABLY WOULDN'T PASS.

>>> SPEAKING OF EXEMPTIONS AND THE SO-CALLED DO NOT CALL SOLICITATION BILL THIS WEEK, WHAT HAPPENED THERE, ROBBIE?

>> Robbie Sherwood: WELL, THE BILL PASSED THE SENATE AND CREATES A STATEWIDE DATABASE THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE WOULD HOLD FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO TAKE THEIR NAME OFF THE LIST FOR TELEMARKETERS, WHO DON'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED. UP UNTIL THE VOTE THERE WAS AN EXEMPTION FOR NEWSPAPERS. IT WAS A VITAL FIRST AMENDMENT CONCERN THAT OUR FORUM FOR IDEAS, WOULD BE INFRINGED UPON IF WE WEREN'T ABLE TO MAKE THESE CALLS.

>> Michael: AT LEAST YOU'RE SMILING SLIGHTLY WHILE YOU'RE SAYING THAT.

>> Robbie Sherwood: SO, YOU KNOW, THAT EXEMPTION WAS TAKEN OFF AND NOW WE HAVE TO LAY OFF MARY JO, SO I HOPE THEY'RE HAPPY.

>> Michael: IT HAD EXEMPTIONS FOR PHONING IN RELATION TO POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS, POLITICAL POLLING, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. ARE THOSE STILL IN THE BILL?

>> Robbie Sherwood: YOU KNOW, I NEED CLARIFICATION ON THIS. I THINK THOSE ARE COMING OFF, TOO. IF THEY ARE STILL IN, THEY ARE GOING TO BE COMING OFF, BUT THE -- AT THE TIME THEY TOOK OFF THE NEWSPAPER EXEMPTION BUT LEFT IN THE EXEMPTION FOR POLITICAL, POLLSTERS AND FUND RAISING CALLS.

>> Michael: I UNDERSTOOD THERE WAS ONE THEORY THAT MAYBE THEY DIDN'T NEED THE EXEMPTIONS BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT CLEARLY COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY; WHEREAS SELLING NEWSPAPERS, AS WE KNOW IS CLEARLY COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY.

>> FREE SPEECH, FIRST AMENDMENT. [ LAUGHTER ]

>> THE QUESTION IS WILL PEOPLE DISTINGUISH BETWEEN SOMEBODY CALLING AS A NEWS GATHERING REPORTER AND SOMEBODY TRYING TO SELL NEWSPAPERS BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE HUNG UP ON ME SAYING, I QUIT, I DON'T WANT A SUBSCRIPTION, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO CALL YOU ANYTHING.

>> Michael: I'M NOT CALLING TO TELL. YOU --

>> Paul Giblin: WHEN I CALL PEOPLE THEY SAY, I ALREADY HAVE A SUBSCRIPTION FOR "THE REPUBLIC."

>> Michael: THIS WAS THE WEEK THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO FIND OUT WHETHER MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO WOULD RUN FOR GOVERNOR. ROBBIE, WHY DID HE POSTPONE THE ANNOUNCEMENT? WAS IT TO SAVE YOUR HAIR?

>> Robbie Sherwood: NOT EXPRESSING AN OPINION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BECAUSE I MADE THE BET A LONG TIME AGO, AND HE'S DONE SO MANY THINGS TO INDICATE THAT HE MIGHT WELL RUN SINCE THEN THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST GOING TO HAVE TO -- IF HE RUNS, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO BE A MAN OF MY WORD. I THINK HE WANTED TO BUY THE TIME TO INVESTIGATE HOW HE WOULD FUND THE CAMPAIGN IF HE DID. HE'S TALKED FOR A LONG TIME THAT HE WOULD BE A CLEAN ELECTIONS CANDIDATE. I THINK THAT WAS -- THE REALITY OF THAT IS THAT IT'S NOT EASY TO QUALIFY FOR CLEAN ELECTIONS, AND IF HE WAS GOING TO DO THAT, HE NEEDED TO HAVE ALREADY STARTED, AND HE -- SO HE'S LOOKING INTO PRIVATE FUNDING, WHICH IF HE DOES THAT, THAT'S GOING TO KILL -- IT'S GOING TO DRY UP THE FUND RAISING FOR HIS OPPONENT, MATT SALMON.

>> Paul Giblin: I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU. THERE HAS BEEN NO ONE IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA WHO THOUGHT ABOUT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR LONGER THAN JOE ARPAIO. I DON'T THINK HE NEEDS EXTRA TIME TO FIGURE OUT THE FUNDING THING. WHAT MORE DOES HE NEED TO FIGURE OUT THAT HE HASN'T FIGURED OUT DURING THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS?

>> Robbie Sherwood: I THINK YOU'RE CONFUSING THOUGHT ABOUT WITH TALKED ABOUT. HE ALWAYS ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT IT. HE LOVES THE THOUGHT, THE IDEA OF HIMSELF AS GOVERNOR, AND HE LOVES IT WHEN SUPPORTERS TELL HIM THAT HE OUGHT TO BE GOVERNOR, BUT THE REALITY OF RUNNING A CAMPAIGN AND SITTING DOWN WITH POLITICAL STRATEGISTS AND GOING THROUGH THE STEP-BY-STEP PROCEDURE OF WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO DO THIS, I WOULD VENTURE THAT HE HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.

>> Michael: WHICH MIGHT NOT BE A STRONG ARGUMENT FOR ORGANIZATIONAL SKILLS, GENERALLY. PAUL, I AM INCLINED TO AGREE WITH YOU A LITTLE BIT, THAT IF HE'S GOTTEN ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF MARCH AND NEVER SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED WELL, GEE, WOULD IT BE A GOOD IDEA IF I RAN AS A CLEAN ELECTIONS CANDIDATE OR IF I ATTEMPTED TO, YOU KNOW, GARNER A LOT OF CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS, IT'S LATE IN THE DAY.

>> Mary Jo Paul: BUT SOME OF THE SAME POLITICAL ADVISORS WORKING WITH SHERIFF JOE RIGHT NOW ARE ALSO WORKING WITH THE COLORADO INDIAN RIVER TRIBES WHICH ARE, AS WE SPEAK, CIRCULATING PETITIONS TO PUT THEIR OWN INDIAN GAMING INITIATIVE ON THE BALLOT. YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE FIELD ALREADY, STATEWIDE.

>> Michael: AND IN FACT THAT WAS ONE OF THE RUMORS. INCIDENTALLY, THE ARCADIA NEIGHBORHOOD DIDN'T THINK MUCH OF SHERIFF JOE'S LET'S USE THE CHAIN GANG TO GET RID OF ROOF RATS?

>> Robbie Sherwood: YEAH, THEY TOLD HIM FOR SOME REASON, THE -- THESE PEOPLE -- THESE FINE PEOPLE IN ARCADIA, DID NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF A BUNCH OF CHAIN GANG JAIL INMATES IN STRIPES TRAIPSING THROUGH THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD LOOKING FOR RATS. THEY TOLD THE SHERIFF THANKS BUT NO THANKS. THE FUNNY SIDE LIGHT TO THIS IS MATT SALMON WHO HAS AN E-MAIL TREE FOR EVERYTHING THAT HE DOES ALL DAY LONG, PRESS RELEASES AND BROADSIDES OF HIS OPPONENTS, SENT OUT AN E-MAIL WITH A CLIP OF THE STORY, JUST, YOU KNOW, FYI, ARCADIA DOESN'T WANT ARPAIO TO GET RID OF THE ROOF RATS. IT WAS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT SHOWED THAT ARPAIO IS ON SALMON'S RADAR SCREEN SOMEWHAT. I THINK IT WAS SIGNIFICANT.

>> Paul Giblin: I THINK THAT MIGHT BE ANOTHER REASON THAT HE HASN'T DECLARED THAT HE IS GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, BECAUSE UNTIL HE DOES, HE IS STILL THAT THREAT. HE'S STILL THIS SUPPOSED GOVERNOR, JUST LIKE GRANT WOODS WAS FOR THE LONGEST TIME. ONCE HE DECIDES THAT HE EITHER IS OR ISN'T, THEN HE'S NO LONGER THE THREAT. IF HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO RUN, THEY CAN START ATTACKING. IF HE DOESN'T SAY HE'S GOING TO RUN, THEN HE'S NO ONE AGAIN.

>> Michael: BUT THE NEW DEADLINE IS TUESDAY, RIGHT?

>> Robbie Sherwood: RIGHT.

>> Michael: DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS, YOU MAY BE ON THE SHOW NEXT WEEK AND WE'LL HAVE A LITTLE CEREMONY WITH THE HAIR.

>> Robbie Sherwood: ARE YOU GOING TO DO IT LIVE?

>> Michael: I WAS THINKING THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT.

>>> THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAYS OKAY ON THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT BOUNDARIES BUT THE LEGISLATIVE LINES ARE STILL IN DOUBT?

>> Robbie Sherwood: REAL QUICK, THEY GAVE THE CONDITIONAL THUMBS UP TO THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS, WHICH THEY NEEDED TO DO BECAUSE THERE IS MORE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS NOW THAN WE USED TO HAVE. THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE COULDN'T GO BACK TO THE OLD MAP. BUT, THE JURY IS STILL OUT, LITERALLY, ON THE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS, AND THERE'S CHALLENGES TO THE FAIRNESS AND THE COMPETITIVENESS OF THOSE DISTRICTS. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS SENT OUT QUESTIONS ASKING A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RACIAL MAKEUP OF THE DISTRICTS INVOLVING HISPANICS AND REGISTERED VOTERS AMONGST THE HISPANICS. AND SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE WRESTLING WITH THIS A LITTLE BIT.

>> Michael: AND THE MOST CRITICAL ASPECT OF THIS BEING THIS RESETS THE 60-DAY CLOCK YET AGAIN. YOU'RE GETTING TO JUST REAL CHAOS HERE IN -- YOU'RE NOW TO EARLY JUNE ON QUALIFYING FOR THE BALLOT, KNOWING IF YOU, YOU KNOW, IF YOU QUALIFY FOR CLEAN ELECTIONS, A WHOLE LOT OF RAMIFICATION.

>> Robbie Sherwood: RIGHT, LET'S SAY THE LEGISLATURE FINISHES UP IN MAY, HA-HA, YOU'LL HAVE PEOPLE RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION IN DISTRICTS THAT THEY AREN'T EVEN SURE THEY'RE IN THE RIGHT DISTRICT.

>> Paul Giblin: MAYBE WE CAN HAVE THE TSA COME IN AND CLEAN THAT UP.

>> Michael: MARY JO, ONE THING THAT APPARENTLY WILL NOT BE ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER IS ANY CHANGE TO TERM LIMITS FOR LEGISLATORS?

>> Mary Jo Pitzl: CORRECT. U.S. TERM LIMITS, A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION CAME INTO TOWN, FIRST THEY CAME THROUGH THE RADIO AIR WAVES AND RAN A COUPLE OF ADS BECAUSE A BILL TO REPEAL TERM LIMITS WAS MOVING THROUGH THE HOUSE. THAT, WITH SOME WELL-PLACED PHONE CALLS KILLED IT, AND THE BILL'S SPONSOR IS -- HAS SHE FORMALLY SAID SHE IS KILLING THE BILL?

>> Robbie Sherwood: WELL, SHE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO CONTRADICT WHAT THE SPEAKER SAID SHE WOULD DO, WHICH THE BILL PASSED COMMITTEE. IT'S IN RULES. IT WON'T GET OUT OF RULES, THE RULES COMMITTEE. SHE CALLED IT A -- SHE SAID SHE WAS TRYING TO MAKE A POINT, AND THAT IT WILL BE A VEHICLE BILL, WHIP MEANS SOMEBODY ELSE'S STRIKE EVERYTHING AMENDMENT MIGHT LAND ON THAT BILL IN ORDER TO MOVE FURTHER THROUGH THE PROCESS. THE FUNNY THING IS, THIS DECISION HAD BEEN MADE APPARENTLY BEFORE U.S. TERM LIMITS HIT TOWN, AND THEY BROUGHT OUT MATT SALMON WHO IS THEIR DARLING BECAUSE HE STEPPED DOWN AFTER SIX YEARS, AND THEY ARE SPENDING SOME SOFT MONEY -- HAVE BEEN TAKING HIM AROUND WITH THEM. THE CYNICS AMONG HIS OPPONENTS THINK THIS MAY BE MORE ABOUT SHOWCASING MATT THAN ATTACKING REPRESENTATIVE BRIMHALL'S ATTEMPT TO GET RID OF TERM LIMITS.

>> Michael: PANELISTS, WE'RE OUT OF TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> TO SEE A TRANSCRIPT OF TONIGHT'S SHOW OR TO SHARE YOUR VIEWS OR TO CONTACT US, PLEASE VISIT THE CHANNEL 8 WEB SITE At WWW.KAET.ASU.EDU, CLICK ON "HORIZON" ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN AND FOLLOW THE GOLF LINKS.

>>> MONDAY ON "HORIZON," WE'LL TELL YOU MORE ABOUT THE UPCOMING INDIAN GAMING SPECIAL SESSION, PLUS A LOOK AT BILLS THAT WOULD REFORM THE INITIATIVE PROCESS.

>>> TUESDAY, AN EFFORT IS UNDERWAY TO GIVE THE MENTALLY ILL IN ARIZONA THE SAME WORKPLACE RIGHTS AS PEOPLE WITH PHYSICAL DISABILITIES.

>>> AND WEDNESDAY, JOIN US AS WE GIVE YOU THE LATEST ON A BILL THAT WOULD CHANGE THE PROCESS FOR LAWSUITS AGAINST HOMEBUILDERS.

>>> THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON FRIDAY. I'M MICHAEL GRANT. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND. GOOD NIGHT.