July 23, 2012
Host: Ted Simons
Arizona Historic Images
- With the Olympics set to begin Jeremy Rowe shares images of Arizona’s sporting past from his vast private collection of vintage Arizona photographs.
- Jeremy Rowe - Private collector
| Keywords: olympics
Ted Simons: The 2012 summer Olympic Games kick off this week with opening ceremonies in London. To get in the mood for the onslaught of athletic competition, we thought we'd take a look at Arizona's sporting past as captured on film. Here to share some of his remarkable images is Jeremy Rowe, the owner of vintagephoto.com. It's great to see you again. Thanks for joining us. You bring such great photographs here. We are going to look at some old athletic teams and athletic competitors and such. Where do you find this stuff?
Jeremy Rowe: I have been looking for years, I’ve been collecting for about 30 years off and on. Some of the markets, antique stores, other places. Collectors groups. I sort of beat bushes for it. Anything that tells the story that has a little background that gives some idea of what life was like at the time appeals to me. I try to ferret it out and collect and it work with people like you to get it out.
Ted Simons: Sometimes you find a photograph you don't know what you are looking at until you do research.
Jeremy Rowe: Sometimes you get a group of photographs that tell a story. It's a piece. Once it comes together you learn more about it.
Ted Simons: Let's start with some photographs. There's a lot of team photos. I think everyone's family has some grandfather or uncle somewhere who stat sat in a team photo. This is I believe from Tombstone stone long time ago.
Jeremy Rowe: That's the earliest Arizona baseball photo I have been able to find so far. It's a too many stone team from 18 83. Just after the big boom in too many stone. A lot of the mining communities had things like brad bands, parades, that were community events and baseball was a big one particularly in the holidays like the Fourth of July and Christmas.
Ted Simons: I guess they played obviously local mining teams and also teams from Mexico. Correct? There's another photograph of an outlaw Mexican team.
Jeremy Rowe: They were across the border. Because they weren't in the u.s. They tended to draw people from, after the teams, they would the black sox scandal. One of the black sox members came and played with that team, hidden from the organized baseball sports.
Ted Simons: We have another photograph of a baseball park in warren down by business bee, I believe.
Jeremy Rowe: That's the birth baseball park built in Arizona, about 1906, cost about $3,600 to build. It was major facility up into the '30s and '40s. Babe ruth played at that facility. During the teens that's where the bisbee deportations, they loaded them on train cars and sent them off in 1917.
Ted Simons: Is there of that down there now?
Jeremy Rowe: The stadium is still there. You still see the buildings of the stadium and the stands. But not much beyond that.
Ted Simons: Ok. There's another baseball stadium in Jerome. It's hard to think of a baseball stadium in that little place with all the mountains but look at that. That's a beautiful facility.
Jeremy Rowe: It's flat enough to have a room for a baseball field. It shows how many people would show up in the games. This is in the mid '20s and the number of cars and people there and the size of stands, there are thousands of people pull together there had which is pretty amazing for Arizona during that time.
Ted Simons: That's really something. Something else, one of your photographs that fascinated me as a golfer is to see this guy playing golf and there's no grass there and that's Camelback mountain. That's amazing photograph.
Jeremy Rowe: That's the Angleside Inn, one of the big resorts. They played on oiled sand. It was easier to take care of and keep going. It's about 68th street and Indian School roughly looking north.
Ted Simons: They just whack the ball there in that oiled sand?
Jeremy Rowe: There's still one out at Apache Junction that's very similar.
Ted Simons: Is there really? I don't think I want to play it with you I didn't know that. Golf, now it's time to do tennis. This is a little more structured here in the sense of people are actually playing on a court.
Jeremy Rowe: Yeah, tennis came in the 1880s and was active in Arizona in the military bases which is urban for out west. Fairly quickly out here. The image is the Camelback inn, the doubles match.
Ted Simons: The long shadows, got to be wintertime, long shadows long pants. Better not be the middle of summer. African-American, buffalo soldiers participated in a relay race. First of all, this is an interesting, where did you find this photograph?
Jeremy Rowe: This is a photo postcard. It came from searching thousands and thousands of photographic postcards and finding one that was labeled Arizona which is what I look for and finding the story behind it, enlarging it, notice, it's African Americans. These are the buffalo soldiers, the African-American troops and during World War I and the Mexican border war they had a number of people stationed in that area. This is one of the African-American relay races.
Ted Simons: Isn't that fascinating? Rugby played in Arizona, in Phoenix and someone took a photograph.
Jeremy Rowe: You got it. Rugby and soccer both were brought over by the minors, a lot of English miners brought the English sports over. There's a very active soccer and rugby league. Tend not to think about it now. That was an Olympic sport just after the turn of the century, but rugby was fairly popular here for a sort stretch and soccer continued for many years.
Ted Simons: An Olympic sport we will be watching is gymnastics. I don't know what all these folks are doing but apparently they are participating in gymnastics.
Jeremy Rowe: This is one of my favorites. I went to ASU for many years. This is the normal school gymnastics team with their normal, the underclassmen were called subnormals jerseys which I am trying to track. That's a fun image.
Ted Simons: This is doing pullups?
Jeremy Rowe: Weights in the area just around old main. That area in front of old main at campus.
Ted Simons: Almost, I don't know. I thought I could figure that out but I don't know. Target shooting.
Jeremy Rowe: Target shooting is an olympic sport also. I pulled a couple of images. The communities as they would have baseball teams and other teams also had target shooting teams and they traveled from place to place. The image you are seeing there is the Prescott team when they were visiting Bisbee. They had national winners in target shooting competitions that came from Arizona.
Ted Simons: I bet you have some good shots out here.
Jeremy Rowe: I bet so.
Ted Simons: This next one may be my favorite. Who was jumbo john middleski?
Jeremy Rowe: He was a Yuma Indian which was recruited, an Indian policeman and recruited as a rustler and performer and taken to San Francisco. They tried to curry him for fighting the world champion, the heavyweight champion at that point. And he got one shot at him in the studio and one shot of him with his manager just before they left for san francisco. 6'7" tall.
Ted Simons: 6'7"? Wow. He could be a professional wrestler today.
Jeremy Rowe: And probably would act same way.
Ted Simons: Jumbo john. Our last one here is of rodeo. And really with Arizona rodeo is something you have to include some way, shape, or form.
Jeremy Rowe: Not necessarily an Olympic sport but an Arizona sport, something we are known for. That's a shot of a couple of performers, two brothers that were trick ropers that went around, rodeo is a big deal. There were many photographs taken here and primarily Prescott was the other big one. But there are rodeos around the state as well.
Ted Simons: When you publish these or put these on your website, have you ever had anyone look at them and say, there's Uncle John?
Jeremy Rowe: I sure have. I have one image at sky harbor airport. The granddaughter of a woman who was in a rest home in Globe noted her grandmother who was there who had been the rodeo queen and we were able to get a photograph back to her and close the loop on that. Very rare but it does happen. It's really wonderful. That's what the whole point is is saving this stuff, passing this on and making connections with people and the photographs.
Ted Simons: We kind of stop there had with the '20s and such but I guess I think we had a 1940s photograph as well. But as the years go on you got some, Arizona is such a young state, vintage photographs is what you make, something in the '50s and '60s could be considered vintage around here.
Jeremy Rowe: That's 50 years old now. When I first started in the '70s it was the teens but now it's the '50s. Time line keeps moving forward.
Ted Simons: Last question. I have asked you this before. What makes you do this?
Jeremy Rowe: I just love the photographs and the stories behind them. It's a lot of fun tracking and researching them. Every one has a story and trying to figure that story out and analyze it and what the process is, who the photographer was, when it was taken. How it relates to other photographs, that's what I find enjoyable and it's a good escape.
Ted Simons: Sounds like a lot of fun. It's good to have you here.
Jeremy Rowe: Always a pleasure.
- The state and national economies have entered the summer doldrums again. Arizona State University Economist Tim James and Economist Jim Rounds of Elliott D. Pollack and Company will discuss the latest economic news.
- Tim James - Economist, Arizona State University
- Jim Rounds - Economist, Elliott D. Pollack and Company
| Keywords: ASU
Ted Simons: Good evening and welcome to "Arizona horizon." I'm Ted Simons. Valley home prices are on the rise, but job growth remains stagnant. Tonight we take a look at the state and national economies with ASU economist Tim James. Jim Rounds, Senior Vice President and Senior Economist for Elliott D. Pollack and company. And Matthew Croucher, an economist for APS. Let's get things started with just kinds of a general overview of what's going on here. A state of the Arizona economy. What do you see?
Tim James: If it's a report card I would give it a B minus, C plus, I think. We have a lot of conflicting indicators at the moment there's some signs of growth in housing, I think, construction, health care, education is doing ok. But where we are with the rest of the economy I am not really certain at the moment. There's so many forces, actually acting on the economy at the moment, global and local, it's very difficult to get a clear picture of where we are going in the next year or two.
Ted Simons: B minus?
Tim James: Yeah.
Ted Simons: What do you think? Give us a grade. That's a good idea.
Jim Rounds: Give it a grade?
Ted Simons: Yeah.
Jim Rounds: How about C plus. I'm a little bit more pessimistic than it was maybe two or three months ago. The job growth numbers are still good. We have 2.5% growth this past month which makes us number four in the country. Number seven year to date. We seem to be performing at a decent rate but what I am worried about is that some of the economic data isn't quite based on fundamentals. I'm concerned a little bit about bubble in housing prices. It's not based on population demand and the commercial market is recovering but not quite at the pace we would hope so the good news isn't quite as good as I was hoping for. So I want a little concerned but I think Arizona is going to do ok this year.
Ted Simons: I will get back to that because I think investigator activity would be a major factor. What kind of grade you got right now?
Matthew Croucher: A C, C-plus. Pretty average. We are seeing some moderate increases in some indicators. There seems to be a lot of noise and excitement over some of the home prices indicators that have come out. Depends on where you look it's not as successful as some people want to believe. We have job growth kind of bumbling along, consumer spending, it's up on last year, it's kind of dropped in terms of its growth rate. People are starting to become a little bit nervous especially given up unemployment seems to be quite resistant and persistent in the state and at national level. So we are seeing this kind of wavering in consumer confidence a little bit, and uncertainty still playing a huge role, especially nationally.
Jim Rounds: That's really important. In fact, Sigmund Freud is going to be in our presentations again going forward because the psychological component has come back. It went away for about six months but consumers are starting to spend more and they are pulling back a little bit because they are concerned about the economy. Businesses, if you look at all the economic data, they were about to invest here in plant equipment and new workers but that psychological component is impacting them and what I am worried about is the way things are going in Washington, we are not going to have anything resolved until after the elections. We are going to have several months of this uncertainty building up. It could dampen economic growth much more than anticipated.
Ted Simons: Uncertainty, concern, lack of confidence with the consumer, you seeing that as well?
Tim James: I think that's true. One of the things we have got to sort of couch where we think the state is in terms of what's going on in the global environment, and I think a lot of forces that are acting on people of confidence in a kind of global context. There's the euro zone meltdown. How that plays out I think is going to affect invest he was confidence globally not just in Arizona. There's a lot of confidence in the banking system and the banks being unwilling to lend in the same way they were before. And there's also another big factor that's sort of got lost a little bit which is where in the world now where there are twice as many people as there were 50 years ago. There's a big scramble for resources. So all those things playing together has created a kind of world where there's a real lack of certainty and that makes it very difficult for people to either consume or invest. In a stable environment. Which is what we really need in order to grow the economy again and move forward.
Ted Simons: It sounds as if you are describing an environment in which stability is foreign and will not be something that we see any time soon no matter how good or bad things get. How stable, how stable do things need to be, how stable can they be in that kind of a world environment?
Matthew Croucher: I think with, especially the external pressures in what's happening in the Euro zone, what's happening with China, they continue to grow. There's some slow down there. I think people are looking for stability and I think that is important. When we are going to see things take a couple of years at least until we start to feel a little bit better about ourselves because for instance the home price discussion, where there's been significant increases is still significantly lower are than what they were at the peak of 2005, 2006. We are getting kind of increases off a very low base and still people are looking and saying, you know what? I am not confident. My home price is still less than what I paid for it or close to what I paid for it 10, 12 years ago. The stock market isn't paying the returns I have seen previously. So I think we need to see some stability in wealth and assets and going forward before people get confident to say, you know what? I am not going to be fooled by what I was in 2005, 2006, that I am permanently richer and go out and spend that money. Instead it's I'm going to wait and see until I know I'm better off before I go out spending that money.
Jim Rounds: There's another factor that's going to play into this which is, what goes on in Washington is going to affect fundamentally what happens to the economy here. And one thing we haven't done so far is really dealt with the federal debt and how we are going to sort of pay that down over time, which is something which has taken place in Europe. Countries, sovereign states there are being forced to address the problem of how they pay down their debt through time unless you have what are known as the pigs in Europe, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and Spain. We haven't in this country got to the bottom of how we are actually going to cope with that. We tinker with the edges of things and one of the things that worries me about that if we go for full austerity in order to pay down the debt really fast that could have a detrimental effect on the economy because we need the government to play an active role trying to stimulate growth. If it goes for fiscal stability and conservative fiscal stability that could have a detrimental effect on the economy.
Jim Rounds: I think it has to do with timing, too. If we allow a bunch of tax cuts to expire and we allow a bunch of spending cuts to occur at the same time, if everything occurs next January we are going to see so much knocked off of GDP that growth is going to be flat to slightly negative. But I believe that that's not going to fully happen. I doubt that Obama is going to suddenly want to start cutting the budget significantly and if Romney is elected, he is not going to want to be known as the person who caused the Romney Recession. I think there's going to be at least some common sense, even though a small percentage, I think that will dampen economic growth a bit but there will be some kind of resolution. I don't know if it's going to be fully resolved in one year, if it's going to take five or six but if they don't do everything as once we will be ok.
Ted Simons: Might mention take a couple years maybe for us to feel good about ourselves again. Do we, in Arizona, do we have a couple of years to wait?
Jim Rounds: Well, we are not going to be back at full economic steam until about 2015 like we have been saying but I think what's happening in Arizona is that we are doing better than the nation as a whole. If the U.S. Economy stalls and we have flat to just slightly positive growth, I still they we are going to have growth in Arizona. All those things we have been saying that are bad about Arizona being a growth state in the long run, it’s actually helping us right now. We are actually going to see increase in retirees, we will have some population inflow because we are at least creating some jobs. So, the national, I don't want to say recession, I think it can mainly be flat growth is most likely scenario if they do some things poorly in Washington, which they probably will. Which could damper our growth. But we are number four in the country in job growth. I doubt that will be dragged down below two.
Ted Simons: Can we compare Arizona with other states, with the nation as a whole, considering we were down so low? And just any kind of job growth, any kind of increase would seem exponential to other areas. How do you compare and contrast?
Matthew Croucher: You are right, because we went so down, we have such a big cycle because construction is such a big component of Arizona, that when we sees these upticks we have to make sure we put them into context and you know , large changes of smaller number is not going to get do to excited about. One of the things we have to keep in mind, we have need a few months a year of positive job growth. We see a number come out, positive or negative, and it seems to be quite a bit of overreaction. As Jim pointed out, Arizona is growing. We are seeing people turning up, population is growing. APS is seeing some customer growth better than what we have seen in the last couple of years. It's still relatively smaller than what we have seen historically. And so that's all that kind of plays into the Arizona economy that we are a growth state. And going back to the home prices, we have seen a bump in Phoenix a little bit home prices but you got to remember a loss of our growth comes from people migrating to this state. So if their home values haven't appreciated enough, then, you are not really going to be willing to move here as fast.
Ted Simons: Same question to you. Do we have time to wait for to turn around? Can we do something? Can the government not do something and help things along?
Tim James: I am European. I am from the U.K. So obviously that's the birth place of Keynes so I believe in active fiscal stimulation. It would be a good time, I am not sure the state level but it would be a good time now to actually think about measures which would stimulate growth with structural measures and also fiscal measures. This is not a time to go for full austerity. That's something you can think good in the next 5 to 10 years. This is the time to make sure we don't fall into the European trap of going for austerity us a tear fee and making things bad for ourselves.
Jim Rounds: At least on the state fiscal side, the report indicated we collected monies in addition above and beyond what was forecast. That's not a lot, about $150 million which is a small percentage of the budget but at least it's there. And I think they are expecting that because they did the wise thing and budgeted conservatively. But I think that we are also going to see slightly slower growth than what we were anticipating in the spring so that money may be needed to cover some shortfalls at least compared to the forecast versus spending in this coming fiscal year. So some positive news at least on a state fiscal side, but I think the legislature and the governor are going to have to be very careful what they’re spending next year. There's enough uncertainty that this isn't just extra money that can be spent on whatever pet project comes up.
Tim James: I want to speak up for the ARRA because I think that was a really clever, not clever but sensible way of actually moving in terms of policy, when that was first instituted, by Obama. And I think that that saved us from some of the worst case scenarios that were around in terms of how the economy turned out because it meant that the fiscal stance of the state wasn't quite as bad as it would be because it was propped up by the federal government. It pushed money into construction. There were some good things that saved us from being as bad as some of the European countries are now. I think now is the time to that I think of ways to make sure on the same growth path and not make things worse for ourselves.
Ted Simons: What do you think about that?
Matthew Croucher: I think, we are always looking for an easy fix. Spend extra money, cut taxes, all those sorts of things. Can we get engine of growth to kick into gear? I think we have to be realist I can and say the government can nibble around the edges in terms of what policies they can institute, but until we get that businesses come off the sideline and uncertainty, as far as consumer confidence picks up, we are not going to see significant growth one way or the other.
Tim James: I think the government needs to lead that effort. What would add to stability if people would see consistent growth in housing and all the sectors in which we have got significant presence in the state and the government, in a way, was able to lead that forward, that would give people's psych an uptick and would lead to more investor confidence, would lead to there being more private sector activity. Now is the time for government to play an active role and I think that's really important for us in the states.
Ted Simons: Quickly, I want to get real quickly because you started off mentioning really, I mentioned investor activity, which is fueling so much of this, are we looking at a mirage? What's going on out here?
Jim Rounds: The housing market is prove improving. I think it's not a complete mirage but it's a little bit of an illusion because we are still seeing people pay cash for the homes. We are still seeing investors coming in from out of the country. Where else are you going to earn a decent return? A lot of homes are being rented. Some of them will be permanently occupied by the renter and that's great but those homes that are maybe being rented for a year or two, some are not currently being listed. This isn't like Eddie Murphy learning from the dukes on "trading places" learning how commodities are traded. It's who's making offers on that home. It's not base the on are we anticipating we are going to build enough homes in five years? The supply has been relatively weakened compared to this investor-enhanced demand. That’s pushed up prices some. People don't care what the price of the home is. It depends on what their payment is. We have a very unique, narrow segment that's dominating the housing economic activity and the data so it's not quite as good as what you are hearing from the realtors. That's positive news.
Ted Simons: Last word, last question. So many jobs shipped overseas. Those jobs in many respects by according to many experts not going to come back. How does that play into what we are, so many folks have lost their jobs. They can't seem to find jobs. They can't buy stuff because -- how does that whole paradigm -- are we look at a new reality here for the economy?
Matthew Croucher: I think we are looking at a new economy where we can't live so much on credit, and in terms of going out and spending now and paying for it later. So I think it's going to be difficult to create these jobs moving forward simply because what we saw five, ten years ago was kind of finance driven. My home price went up by $100,000. I thought I was wealthy, my stock portfolio went up by another $100,000. I can buy more cars, more, more services and those sorts of things. So given that that environment really going to be restricted, I don't think we are going to see as much growth.
Ted Simons: We got to stop it right there. Great discussion. Good to have you all here. Thanks for joining us, we appreciate it.