November 16, 2011
Host: Ted Simons
Education and Economic Growth
- The relationship between education, jobs and economic growth is the focus of the Developing Human Capital Conference taking place November 17 and 18 in Phoenix. Conference speaker Dr. Michael Mandelbaum discusses his recently published book titled “That Used to Be Us: How America Fell Behind in the World It Invented and How We Can Come Back”, and what it says about the ties between education and economic security.
- Dr. Michael Mandelbaum - Conference speaker
| Keywords: education
, economic growth
, human capital
Ted Simons: Globalization has changed every job and industry in our country. The same is true of technology. Those changes require a new way to approach the educational and skills training needs of American workers. So says Michael Mandelbaum, coauthor with Thomas Friedman of "That used to be Us: How America Fell Behind in the World It Invented and How We can Come Back." Mandelbaum will be the keynote speaker at an event host the bite Arizona commission on post secondary education. Joining us now is Michael Mandelbaum, the Christian A. Herter professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University. Thanks for joining us.
Michael Mandelbaum: It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Ted Simons: How did the U.S. fall behind in the world?
Michael Mandelbaum: The world is changing more rapidly perhaps than at any time in history, and in particular it's being changed by globalization and the information technology revolution, which together put enormous pressure on every American job, because almost any job can be done almost anywhere by somebody who's competent to do it, and there are more and more people around the world who are competent to do these jobs. We just haven't kept up. We haven't focused on the most important question that a country, a firm, or an individual has to ask him or herself, and that question is, what world am I living in, and what do I have to do to thrive in that world? Some places, some people such as the Arizona commission on post-secondary education, are asking this question. And increasingly Americans are waking up to the fact that we're going to have to work a lot harder to sustain the American dream and the American way of life, and the American role in the world.
Ted Simons: Work a lot harder at what?
Michael Mandelbaum: We're going to have to work a lot harder at everything. And in particular, we're going to have to get better educated. Everybody is going to have to raise his or her game. We're going to have to have more education, and we're going to have to have better education. In fact, Tom and I concluded after interviewing employers, that in the 21st century, if you don't have a secondary education, a high school education that does not require remediation, plus something else, doesn't have to be college, it could be community college, it could be advanced vocational training, could be military service, but if you don't have a good high school education plus, you're not going to be able to make a decent living. You're going to be road kill. And unfortunately in America, we have hundreds of thousands of kids every year who are leaving high school who if it into that dismal category. We've got a real problem.
Ted Simons: How do you get the kids who are fitting into that dismal category to understand this, get their parents to understand it? Because without a will, it's not going to change, is it?
Michael Mandelbaum: No, it's not. And that's one of the reasons we wrote the book. What we need consciousness racing, and my observation going around the country talking about this subject is that people are beginning to get the message. The first step is to understand the world we're living in, which is a much more competitive world than one we've ever known before. The second is to understand that we need more and better education, which means two things. We need higher standards, for example, American students at the primary and secondary level have one of the shortest school days and shortest school years of any country in the world, and that's going to have to change. That's not good enough anymore. We're going to have to do more to recruit, train, and retain good teachers. Turns out we don't really know all that much about teaching, but there's a lot of interesting research and experimentation going on much of it sponsored by the gates foundation, so we are getting better there. But Tom and I believe where education is concerned, the most important thing is the recognition that it's a national problem. It's our problem all of us. It's not just a problem for teachers. Just as they say in military affairs and in foreign policy that war is too important to be left to the generals, so education is too important to be left to the teachers. Not the teachers are not important, they're very important, but we cannot let them Humberto entire burden of education. All of us have to be focused on this. Communities, political leaders, the business community, parents, and students as well.
Ted Simons: Haven't we heard, though, for years that A, the U.S. is falling behind in some way, shape, or form, and B, somebody else is doing it better, it seemed like for decades we've been hearing about Japan. The Japanese kids go to school so many hours, they learn so many things, they're going to pass us. Have they passed us yet? I've been hearing this for a long time.
Michael Mandelbaum: Unfortunately it's not just the Japanese who have passed us. If you take the international standardized tests, American students on most subjects are somewhere in the middle of the pack and in some subjects we are near the bottom. Now, why does that matter? It's true that countries don't compete against one another economically when China does better, when Singapore does better, we do better too, though not as well as they do, but individuals do compete against one another for good jobs, in the rest of this century the people with the best skills will get the best jobs, and unless we raise our game in education, those people decreasingly will be American.
Ted Simons: Back to how we got here, the implication I think from your book is that the cold war blinded us to a lot of these things. Talk about that.
Michael Mandelbaum: Well, at least the cold war gave us a focus. The cold war was a real threat, and we knew we had to exert ourselves to meet that threat, and we did. And when the cold war ended, we celebrated. We kicked back, we threw a party for ourselves, we regarded it as a great victory, as indeed it was, but it was also something else. The cold war created a new economic world, an economic world that is more challenging than ever before. it doubled the number of people in the global work force and it opened up to people in China, in India, in eastern Europe, the possibility of living like Americans, working Latino Americans, earning like Americans, that's great for the -- ultimately it should be god for us, if we take advantage of it. but the way we have to take advantage of it is to raise our game as well. and that means more and better education. especially post-secondary education.
Ted Simons: Your book is title "That used to be Us, " I'm assuming when you look at China you're saying that used to be us?
Michael Mandelbaum: I think that's what people see when they look at China but there's a larger point here we talk a lot about the problems America has, but in ultimately we are optimistic. we believe that America can come back. we outline the reasons for our optimism in the book. one of the most important reasons is our history. we are a country with a history of meeting and mastering challenges, even greater than the ones we face today. Tom and I believe if we look at our past, if we recapture the spirit, the policies, the formula that used to be us, that we can be us again.
Ted Simons: How can you recapture anything when you got right now a political society that's pretty divided, a whole lot of this going on when the rest of the world is moving right on past? what are you doing politically?
Michael Mandelbaum: You put your finger on one of the great problems. to analyzing why our politics are stuck, why they're dysfunctional and we think it has mainly to do with the increasing partisan polarization. Republicans and democrats are so far apart from one another, they barely speak anymore, let alone cooperate and do the big hard things that we need to secure our future. so what do you do about that? we asked what is turning out to be a very controversial suggestion in our book. we propose an independent presidential candidate in 2012 who will run on a platform of what we call radical centrism who will propose specific solutions for the major challenges that we face and the two major parties. That candidate, if he or she followed that platform would be placed between the Republican and the democrats. Section candidate would not be elected, but if a candidate like that did well, such a candidate got, say, 20% of the vote, that would administer a shock to the two major parties that each of them would seek to capture the 20% for that independent candidate by adjusting their policies to incorporate part of the platform that the independent candidate proposed.
Ted Simons: But did we see that with john Anderson's candidacy, with Ross PEROT, did we see any major shift with a viable third party candidate?
Michael Mandelbaum: We did see it three times in the 20th century. We described the -- an independent candidate did well. John Anderson did not do well enough, but Ross PEROT did do well enough, and because of that, the Clinton administration concentrated on deficit reduction. Something that it would never have done according to the people we interviewed but for Ross PEROT's performance. What we are looking for is a shock to the political system. We don't want to tear up the constitution. That's not feasible. But our system is not working now and we think it needs a jolt. Kind of like jump starting a dead battery in a car. And if we can do that, we are optimistic because this is still a great country. It's still enormous energy, enormous creativity at the grass-roots. Our way of putting it, if you want to be apartment mystic about America, stand on your head, because when you look at what people are doing, in Arizona, and all over the country, there are enormously talented energetic people starting things, organizing things, we just need to remove the constraint of the political system impose and channel that marvelous energy.
Ted Simons: We’ve got less than a minute left -- is anyone listening?
Michael Mandelbaum: As Tom and I have gone around the country, we've gotten a very good response. I think people are listening, I've read some of the reports of the Arizona commission on post secondary education and as far as we're concerned, they're right there are people in this country in this state who understand what needs to be done. Doing it is a bit harder, but understanding what needs to be done is the first step, and I think we are taking that step.
Ted Simons: Very good. It's good to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us.
- The Greater Phoenix Economic Council is hosting a summit on the future of the personalized medicine industry in Arizona. GPEC President and CEO Barry Broome; Richard Mallery, Founder and Chairman of the International Genomics Consortium; and ASU Professor Anna Barker director of the university’s Transformative Healthcare Networks initiative talk about Arizona’s growth opportunities in personalized medicine.
- Barry Broome - President and CEO,GPEC
- Richard Mallery - Founder and Chairman,International Genomics Consortium
- Anna Barker - Director of The University’s Transformative Healthcare Networks Initiative
| Keywords: Medicine
, Transformative health networks
Ted Simons: Good evening, and welcome to "Horizon." I'm Ted Simons. An indictment in the Fiesta Bowl scandal. Natalie Wisneski, the Fiesta Bowl's former chief operating officer, was indicted by a Federal grand jury. She's charged with filing false financial records and soliciting campaign contributions from bowl employee and reimbursing those employee was Fiesta Bowl money. In previous statements Wisneski has denied any wrongdoing. Tomorrow the greater Phoenix economic council will host a summit on personalized medicine. Another attempt to help push Arizona to the forefront of the health care and bioscience industries. Joining me to discuss all this is Barry Broome, president and CEO of GPEC, Anna Barker, director of ASU's Transformative Health Networks and co-director of ASU's complex adaptive systems initiative. And Richard Mallery, founder and chairman of the international genomics consortium. Good to have you all here. Thank you for joining us.
Barry Broome: Thank you.
Anna Barker: It’s a pleasure
Richard Mallery: Thank you.
Ted Simons: Anna, I want to start with you. Before we get to the summit, it's on personalized medicine. What exactly is personalized medicine? Define that for us.
Anna Barker: It's not easy to define, but I'll give it a shot. The idea of personalized medicine is it's 21st century medicine, targeted medicine that's based on understanding a patient's molecular profile. And that means that we would understand a lot about the targets for that specific patient in terms of new interventions like diagnostics and preventives. So it's very targeted medicine specifically for the individual.
Ted Simons: Transformative?
Anna Barker: Absolutely.
Ted Simons: And I keep hearing the phrase "bench to bedside." What does that mean?
Anna Barker: It means you take an advance from the laboratory and develop 90 a way you can get it more quickly into patients but you learn from the patients actually and it's kind of a cycle that we don't have now in medicine where you learn from the patient, it comes back into the bench or to the laboratory and you make a better product that way.
Ted Simons: Ok, So with that parameter set, the summit -what's the goal?
Barry Broome: Well, it’s twofold. One, to establish the fact that as we talk about where we're going to change our economic future in the health care industry in Arizona is the largest most successful industry in the state, and we actually gained 18,000 jobs while we lost 300,000 jobs as a state. So it's an industry that's risen against the downward tide of recession and housing starts. Secondly, it's designed to bring national leaders in from around the country to interface with our local leaders to help us learn best practices. And so there's a lot of great models out there, some of the models we'll be looking at tomorrow are in markets like Houston, and east valley that really talks about the kind of strong heavy hitting levers that we have to go after as a market. And to change our position and reach this potential promise.
Ted Simons: What are you looking for from this summit from tomorrow?
Richard Mallery: We need to begin to appreciate to make Arizona competitive we have to be the best in the world at something. God put a lot of copper in Arizona, we're obviously trying to figure out how to be smarter about mining copper. But we have a health care works here, people like to come here. And with this initiative in Genomics we have create add way to attract the best and the brightest people, but also some of the companies that are leaving Illinois and California because of the problems those states are having, and they're coming here because they see us as an ideal place to do their research, do their manufacturing, and to in effect benefit from the leadership that we have right now in genomics.
Ted Simons: Do you agree this is an ideal place for those things, and if so, why?
Anna Barker: Yes, I do. I'm here, and I came here for just that reason. I think Arizona actually is almost uniquely positioned in this field, because you have many of the prerequisites actually, dick has mentioned Genomics and have you some of the best Genomics centers in the country here. You also have two outstanding organizations in Arizona state University and the University of Arizona that have positioned the state well in terms of discovery and innovation, and I think you have a willingness here and a culture to actually put the solution for personalized medicine together end-to-end. And that's going to be critical, all the way from the bench and understanding a patient's genome to delivering a new product and doing the trials for that, all here.
Ted Simons: How do you get the message across, that firms in Illinois and California, and to start-ups here that want to get things going, what's the marketing message? What’s the word?
Barry Broome: I think you got to narrow the marketing message. One of the things Dick said that I think is important, we have to set -- you can't be world class in 10 things, and there's a couple of spaces we have a chance to be world class at. One of the things you have to talk about Noble prize winners at Arizona State University, the emergence of Dennis Cortez from Mayo, Patrick from California and UCLA with the -- we have some achievements that are going on here that are being championed by select leaders like Dr. Dan Van Hoff who Dick Mallery brought in. And so a marketing message has to be legitimate, it has to be quantifiable and measure, it has to be distinctive and it has to be opportunistic. So there will be two things going on. This is an industry that's about unique leaders and we're going to speak and talk about our unique leaders tomorrow and communicate that globally, and two, it's also about trends. Our state economic trend, we are outpacing the national average in growth and health care jobs three-to-one. That's an incredible growth spectrum. During this recession we've had M.D. Anderson make a major investment here. The Mayo Clinic down the road is probably going to have its largest presence in the valley. There's another world class institution. Mayo Clinic in Arizona state University medical school, U of A's world class, Creighton coming in with St. Joe's, so not only these messages going out around these leaders and these institutions, but they're also going to be differentiating messages, like the impact we're making on neuroscience.
Ted Simons: I noticed one of the goals of the summit is to educate policymakers about health care and bioscience. First of all, what do they need to know, and secondly they don't -- how come they don't already know this?
Richard Mallery: Most of them do. That's why we've had great support from the public sector. Everything has been sort of perfect synchrony. We've had a great governor, and Jan Brewer has been terrific. We've had great mayors and moving on to Gordon, and now Greg Stanton will be terrific. The board of supervisors, Pima county, Coconino, this state has got its act together on the public sector side, particularly because of the three universities working together. We know how to collaborate in this state. Second, we've done a wonderful job with foundations here. Flinn foundation really has made -- taken the lead and has created this bioscience road map which we have used to educate the legislature and the city councils and the boards of supervisors for the last 10 years. And that is the work of the memorial institute. We've studied ed San Diego, Bethesda, and we really have brought here the best practices from around the country. So we had a head start on educating not only the legislators, but also the community to this rare opportunity. We're undergoing a medical revolution right now. And Arizona is at the forefront of it, and we want to stay there.
Ted Simons: The public-private collaboration, the idea Dick was talking about, first of all, are we seeing it moving forward like we should, A, and B, what are the challenges in dealing with that particular dynamic?
Anna Barker: I wish it were a more robust story. But I think it's probably more robust than Arizona than most places. Actually, if you think about where we are in this whole field of personalized medicine, the Universities cannot commercialize technology. It's going to have to -- it has to get transferred into small companies and/or into large companies, the pharmaceutical industry, and the very interesting change that's occurred in medicine and will continue to occur over the next 25 to 50 years is that it's going to be about information. Information is going to be king, and those people who know how to manage information in patients are going to actually lead in this century. And not any one sector can do that. The massive amount of information, for example, coming out of a project that Fran advice Collins and I started at the NiH, is now overwhelming us. We have so much information coming out. So I think this collaborative relationship between the -- in this case the Universities and companies and foundations and philanthropy all are going to be necessary to actually move this information into patients in new ways, and the one thing I will say that I think is going to be a barrier is the number of people we have educated in the U.S. to analyze the data. So one of our challenges is actually that, and I would say that probably our state, Arizona, my adopted state now, has probably more of those people trained, little known, than almost any other state in the country. Ready to go to work on the data.
Richard Mallery: Let me give you an example of why everything is working together, but then mention our biggest weakness. You want the weakness first?
Ted Simons: Sure, why not.
Richard Mallery: We don't have the venture capital money to do the start-ups here. Some of our best ideas are now in southern California. So let's remember that. Biofunding is very important. But in terms of what we do have, thanks to the foundations, thanks to the Maricopa County, thanks to the school districts, we have a bioscience high school just a few blocks from where we're sitting. And we have -- we didn't have anything before. So we had a chance to do it right. We didn't have to fight somebody who wanted to do the way it's been done for the last 50 years. We got a chance to do it right, and we're doing it right. So that we are -- the new school of medicine here from U of A, that's going to focus on personalized medicine, which requires a collaboration of medicine, the college of pharmacy, college of engineering, the college of nursing, it's a collaboration. We do not have silos. We break down the walls. And that's what's making us so powerful, because this is a revolution going on. Baby boomers want to live longer, and we're going to help them do that here in Arizona.
Ted Simons: OK, so real quickly --
Anna Barker: One of the other issues that's going to drive this collaboration is that it's information. I keep coming back to that. It's information flow. Your genome is digital information, so you are going to have to collaborate. If you own a little piece of your information, that's why the cloud becomes so important, and information sharing becomes so important. So this idea of precompetitive collaboration is going to be critical in the future to share the information.
Ted Simons: So wrap it up now. Tomorrow, if I go to this summit, anyone who goes to the summit, what do you want us to take from it?
Barry Broome: I think first off take notice of the achievements. I think one of the things we don't do a good enough job in Arizona, and I want to thank Dick Mallery’s leadership on this and others, Virginia piper along with Flinn, take notice of the achievements we have, but as Dick is saying, we have to be world class at something. I think we have to be world class at at least three to five things, and this is definitely one of them. And it's one of the ones that's materialized. While we take pride in that, we need to measure ourselves against the very best. In addition to venture capital we're 27th in the United States, in basic research for science. And to become 10th in the United States we have to have a 300% increase in that commitment. So some of these things are going to take venture capital. Some of these things are going to take greater commitments in science. That's all within the context after footprint and a direction that's already being admired by people around the United States and the world. We should take pride in that and elevate that, but also recommit ourselves to excellence. And that's going to be a commitment, we haven't made in 40 or 50 years, not only in our community, but maybe in the United States. I think this is a lost art in the United States to set that kind of standard and I think we can do that here in greater Phoenix.
Ted Simons: All right.
Barry Broome: I think we've done it.
Ted Simons: All right. Well, we'll find out. We certainly appreciate the conversation and good luck tomorrow at the summit. Thank you all for joining us. We appreciate it.