Books & Co.
Yann Martel - The Life of Pi
Airdate: April 19, 2004

About the Author

Yann Martel has won world recognition and one of the most coveted Awards for literature - the Booker Prize in 2002 for this book. He is a world-renowned author and a celebrity. As the child of diplomats, Yann has lived all over the world, Costa Rica, France, Mexico and Alaska and has also traveled extensively in Iran, Turkey and India. He now lives in Saskatoon, Canada.



About this Book

"Life of Pi" is a story of perseverance and spiritual courage. The novel's narrator, Piscine Molitor Patel, or Pi, is a youth raised at his family's zoo in Pondicherry, India. He becomes versed in the behavioral nature of the family's zoo animals, while simultaneously deciding to practice three religions: Hinduism, Christianity and Islam. Due to political turmoil, Pi and his family decide to move from India to a new home in Canada, bringing some of their zoo animals with them. Amid their journey, their Japanese cargo ship, the Tsimtsum, encounters a catastrophe and sinks, leaving Pi lost at sea and orphaned. Pi finds temporary salvation on a life boat which he shares with a wounded zebra, a rat, a female orangutan, a hyena and a 450-pound tiger named Richard Parker. "Life of Pi" is young Pi Patel's account of his trials at sea, surviving the drama of nature's food chain, which isolates Richard Parker and him in an intimate and catastrophic proximity. Equipped with his knowledge of animal behavior and spiritual faith, Pi is taken on a journey that tests the limits of his beliefs and abilities. Along the way, he is at the mercy of the harsh physical world around him and in the metaphysical patience of his will.





Ron Carlson: Hello, and welcome to Books & Co. I’m Ron Carlson. And today our guest is the writer Yann Martel, whose novel, "Life of Pi," the winner of the Man Booker Prize and 2004 selection of OneBook Arizona. Welcome to Arizona.

Yann Martel: Thank you.

Ron Carlson: Glad to have you here. This is an interesting book and you have lots of readers. By "interesting" I mean when I turn around to describe it to people, I’m a little at a loss for words. It's hard to reduce. So let's start by laying the groundwork about the book, and you could tell us perhaps where you got the idea and the genesis of its writing.

Yann Martel: Well, I think most books come about as a result of three things, influence, inspiration, and hard work. So I’ll briefly describe each one. In 1990, I remember casually reading a review in a New York newspaper of a Brazilian novel by a man named Marcel Schler. In that review is mentioned that a character ends up on a life boat and there is a wild animal.

Ron Carlson: right.

Yann Martel: And I remember thinking, oh, that's a good premise, reducing Noah's ark to one animal, one person. It was perfectly Aristotelian, you know, unity of time, action and place. That's a good premise. I tried to find the book, couldn't find it, forgot about it.
Seven years later -- but that review was sort of the germ.

Ron Carlson: I see.

Yann Martel: And then the soil, the rain, the sunshine that made that sprout was a trip to India several years later. In 1997, I went to India to work on another novel, which didn't come alive, so I put it aside, much as I describe in the author's note of the book in fact.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: And then I opened myself to what was in front of me. In fact, it's hard to open your eyes to what's in front of you. Often we live in denial in our minds and whatever, but I opened my mind to what was in front of me, and what was in front of me was a lot of animals and a lot of gods.

Ron Carlson: In India?

Yann Martel: In India. And at that junction of having no novel to work on and being in a strange place called India, I remembered that premise and suddenly all of "Life of Pi" came to me, by which I mean the idea of two stories, two stories in competition.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: The idea of life, of reality, of being an interpretation, a choice of stories. 'Cause at that time I was what, 33, I think.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: I had published two books that essentially had gone nowhere. They had very good reviews but had gone nowhere. So I was questioning why am I doing this, where is my life going. So I needed something, I guess, to reaffirm the importance of stories. So doing this novel on religion and discussing the idea that religion is a grand form of storytelling that gives sense to our life is the theme, and it was brought to me by India. So I spent six months in India doing research, came back to Canada did another two years of research, then it took me roughly two years to write it. So in all, it took me about four years and five months to bring the book about.

Ron Carlson: And you had -- by the time you -- is the planning of the book and the writing of the book, were they separate? Or did you begin writing as you were finishing the planning?

Yann Martel: Some writers, as you would know, have an idea and start writing right away, and they run with it, and they don't really know where it's going. So for example, the writer Michael Andache is sort of like that. He has this idea, whatever it may be, whether it's a set of characters or a place, you have this vague idea and you just start writing in, as they often say, the characters speak to them or the place speaks to them and that determines where the story will go. Other writers, and I’m the other kind of writer, I plan everything. To my mind, to start writing a novel or a story without knowing where it's going would be like starting to build a building without knowing what it's for, whether it's going to be a TV studio or a hospital or a school.

Ron Carlson: Sure.

Yann Martel: So I plan very carefully. So "Life of Pi," before I started it, I knew exactly where I was going, that it would have 100 chapters, for example, before I started the author's note in chapter 1, I knew exactly how chapter 100 would finish. It was all very clear. Which doesn't mean that writing it was afterwards this tiresome task of getting it down.

Ron Carlson: No, I understand.

Yann Martel: But I knew where I was going, why I was doing things, what I was trying to explore.

Ron Carlson: Let's use that structure to give a brief synopsis of the book. I mean, you start with Pi's history, his family. And why don't you take that forward from there and just tell us briefly the story, because I want to ask some of the questions about these wonderful episodes, and I’m sure that everybody does.

Yann Martel: It's a very easy novel to describe. It's the story of an Indian family that runs a zoo in India in the 1970s. Business is bad because politics is bad, something Americans should be familiar with, in fact. So the Patels decide to immigrate to Canada. They sell their zoo animals to various zoos in the United States. And since they are going to Canada, they decide to cross the Pacific together. Unfortunately for them, the ship they are traveling on sinks and Pi, the boy, the youngest boy in the family, who is 16 when this happens, ends up in a life boat with four animals, a tiger, an orangutan, a zebra and a hyena. Quite quickly only the tiger is left, so the second part of the novel, the longest part, is about how Pi survives with this tiger for 227 days as they drift across the Pacific. And it's a real tiger. It's not out of Walt Disney. It's a real, fierce, wild Bengal tiger, the real big fierce tiger. That's the story. The theme, the underlying theme of the novel -- not the underlying, sorry -- the theme of the novel is an exploration of faith. In this case, it's religious faith. Pi is a practicing Hindu-Muslim-Christian. So I explore religious faith here, but it applies to any kind of faith, faith in a person, faith in a system.

Ron Carlson: Sure, sure.

Yann Martel: The idea of what is faith? How does faith operate? What is the relationship between faith and the imagination? How do we read reality? That's what I was interested in exploring.

Ron Carlson: Did you have those ideas -- and they are large and important ideas. Did you have them before you, then, in the planning of this novel?

Yann Martel: Yeah, I write the books that I write to explore questions that are meaningful to me.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: So I grew up in a completely nonreligious household. My parents grew up in Quebec, which is a very -- now is an extremely secular province.

Ron Carlson: right.

Yann Martel: Which has by and large marginalized religion for good in many ways. I mean, organized religion has made, is making and will make serious mistakes, but I think also we've thrown out the baby with the bath water. I think our imaginative life is somewhat flattened if we completely dismiss the transcendental. So I went to school, grew up in sort of a religious void, and at one point I was sensing that maybe my life was missing something. I wanted to at one point explore the idea of some other reality underpinning this material reality. So those are questions that I had. And I wrote this book to try to answer those questions. Each book that I write, I’m exploring some sort of theme. So this one was the idea of faith and religion.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: An earlier book was exploring sexual identity, gender politics. The next one will be exploring great evil. How do we live with great evil, how do we speak of it, what metaphors, what stories?

Ron Carlson: Right. I saw an interview about that book. Now, so you're writing the book.
I like this word "explore." I understand what you are saying. You've laid it out. You're going to explore the question. Now, this isn't the right way to ask this question, but let me ask it. Do you know the answer to the question or are you -- and I’m relating that to the narrative moments, the narrative and dramatic moments in this surprising book.

Yann Martel: The answer is –

Ron Carlson: This is a question -- the reason I ask is, I have students who say they have certain writers who they are big fans of, and they are waiting and waiting and waiting to write their book because they want to get all around it, the way you are talking about.

Yann Martel: The short answer would be no, because I think the proper domain of art is to ask questions. The proper domain of politics is to give answers.

Ron Carlson: Okay.

Yann Martel: And also, all art at one point aspires to a certain beauty, and beauty is not an answer. It's sort of a condition of our lives, one that we aspire to at any rate. It's not an answer in itself. So, you know, I don't say I come to a conclusion. It's more that in writing this book, I’m more clear now about a certain kind of mystery.

Ron Carlson: Okay.

Yann Martel: The mystery -- I’m more lucid about mystery.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: So it's not quite an answer, but it's a greater clarity.

Ron Carlson: Right. A lot of animals in this book. It's shot through with animals and animal life and the world and not just this wonderful tiger. What is that? Is that -- you talked about the fact that you came to religion as a kind of a student looking at it. Is that the way you came to the animals? Did you grow up with lots of animals? Or did you go find them? Or was it this time in India?

Yann Martel: I did grow up with animals. I lived for several years in Costa Rica, a tropical country; it's easy to have animals. But I would argue, like most people who have pets, you don't really have an animal there; you have something you are projecting onto. You have some play thing that you are projecting human traits onto. I only first started really looking at animals when I was doing research for "Life of Pi." Most of us don't see animals. We see something that we project onto it. It's very hard to strip away anthropomorphism. The reason I use animals is because in some ways I find animals link back to ultimate reality. Let me explain that. I find -- I think the reason people anthropomorphize animals, in other words, see a tiger and say it's beautiful, see – they are speaking to their cat and their dog, the reason we do that, if you strip away all of these layers of anthropomorphism, what you finally get is a being that is alive, like you and me, but has no use of reason and is fine with it. And that puts our reason into question. When you look at an animal, you say, why is it alive? What does it do? Why isn't it troubled by these questions of existence the way I am. An animal is untroubled at what it does. A lion will kill something and do it in an untroubled way because that's what it's there for. We are troubled by questions of morality and esthetics, and we don't like that, to have animals, beings, that are not troubled by it. So we lay on all of this anthropomorphism. And I think if you strip it away, what you finally get is Mystery with a capital "M." You are puzzled as to why these things are, and we don't like that, so we layer it on top. So the reason I use animals is because they are mysterious. They are beautiful.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: Also more practical, more technical. I like using animals because they are a good way of telling stories. Animals in literature are always in character. Whether a tiger is behaving like a true tiger as it does in my novel or whether it's anthropomorphized by Roger Kipling, either way it's always in character. We never disbelieve the animal. Whereas, as anyone who writes fiction would know, it's very hard to get a character right sometimes. If I’m using, let's say, a text in character, I've got to get that draw right.

Ron Carlson: I understand.

Yann Martel: It's hard to get that. We're more cynical about human beings than we are about animals. So just in a story telling way, I find it useful to use animals, and I’ll be using for my next two novels in fact, to a very different purpose.

Ron Carlson: I was going to ask about that. So there's animals coming up?

Yann Martel: Yeah, the next one will feature a monkey and a donkey but this time anthropomorphized. In other words, they will speak English. They will go to restaurants.
They will stay at inns. And it will be a fable. It will be a fable on -- not on the holocaust -- on great evil. How do we speak of great evil. Even, for example, the word "holocaust" is somewhat inappropriate. Holocaust is an innocuous Jewish religious term designating an animal sacrifice to propitiate a sin, to atone for a sin. The massacre of European Jewry between '33 and '45 had nothing to do with Germans atoning for a Sin. And the animals are unwilling but they also don't understand what was happening to them. The Jews were certainly unwilling but they knew what was happening to them at one point. So the Jewish holocaust is somewhat inappropriate. But there is an instance. Do we use that word? Now in Europe and in Israel they use the word sho'ah, great tragedy. It's somewhat more appropriate. Although even great tragedy could be anything. It could be the fire of Lisbon of 1755.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: So I’m interested in what words do we use, what metaphors, what stories. How do we talk about something when it starts fading into the past. But instead of using the document -- I mean most holocaust stuff is of a documentary nature.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: You know, I was a Jew in Berlin, and this happened to me. I want to take a more imaginary route. I want the imagination to appropriate the holocaust and not just our documentary reason.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: So I’m taking a different route.

Ron Carlson: The way the imagination is so important in this book. Let me remind everybody that we're talking with the writer Yann Martel about his novel "Life of Pi."
But to finish this thing on animals, I want you to back me up on something I've been telling my students that I see a lot of stories where all of a sudden the dog knows that the ghost is in the room. Now, does the dog always know if the ghost is in the room? Should the dog always know if the ghost is in the room?

Yann Martel: That's a good question. You know, one thing – another thing I will explore in my next novel of after that, by the way, and that has become a way of looking at animals, what is interesting about animals is nearly always, they are in the present moment. They are right here, right now, which is what Buddhist monks try to do after 20, 30 years of meditation. For example, dogs do dream. So dogs have a capacity in their imaginations to imagine another state of affairs, one which scares them. And chimpanzees, for example, have a very good memory. They will remember someone 20 years after.

Ron Carlson: Seriously?

Yann Martel: But that memory seems to be triggered only once they see that person. So animals generally are rooted to the present movement which means right here, right now, which means, yes, they are more sensitive to changes in their environment, including the intrusion of a ghost.

Ron Carlson: Right. Well, when the century changed, I looked at my dog. I was watching him. And when he wasn't alarmed, I knew how to take it. But I want to go back, because you say some surprising things in a related topic in this book about zoos. And you take and defend, I think successfully, kind of another point of view. Do you want to talk about that?

Yann Martel: Yeah. That was sort of a secondary thing that I was doing in my novel, talking about zoos. I think zoos play a role in our society. To my mind zoos are sort of like embassies from the wild, and every animal in the zoo is like a diplomat representing its species. If we close down all zoos, we essentially cease having relations with the wild, except if we're rich and we can afford to go to safaris.

Ron Carlson: Exactly.

Yann Martel: Because an animal on television is not a real animal. It's a depiction of an animal. And whether that real animal is alive or not is irrelevant to television because you always have reruns.

Ron Carlson: Sure.

Yann Martel: It's only once you see a real animal in the flesh are you struck by it. Especially for children. It's only once a child actually sees a giraffe that they can say, my God, what an amazing creature. I must make sure I have a respectful relationship with it. I must respect its environment. So I think zoos play that role of saying, you know, of representing the wild in an urban setting. So the idea of eliminating zoos is crazy. The fight in terms of zoos should be to improve them. And there are bad zoos. Unfortunately, one bad zoo or even one bad enclosure in a fairly decent zoo does a tremendous amount of bad publicity.
And also I think zoos are not popular now because people misunderstand animals.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: They see a cage and they say, well, I wouldn't want to be in a cage so why would that animal want to be in a cage, but that's projecting great misunderstanding. Animals are territorial. If that zoo enclosure addresses the animal's needs, it takes possession of that territory exactly the way it does take possession of its territory in the wild. The only thing that's unusual about the zoo enclosure is that it's much smaller. That's because in a zoo enclosure, all of the things that the animal needs are brought together in a small area. Exactly like a house.

Ron Carlson: Exactly.

Yann Martel: When we were cave men and cave women, the river would be over there, the food over there, the berries over there. Well, in a modern house, the fridge is right here, the bathroom is right there, the bed's right there. It's all -- a house is a compact territory. So is a zoo enclosure. And also, I think zoos are important because if you don't have zoos, most people would live not seeing any animals at all, except the odd cat or dog.

Ron Carlson: Exactly.

Yann Martel: The odd bird and that's it. We are unique as a species in being so obsessed with ourselves. Most other animals in the wild live in a zoo -- you know, a cornucopia of animals around them.

Ron Carlson: Right.

Yann Martel: We are obsessed with ourselves, and I don't think it's any good that we should further that. Because what happens is, if you are out of sight, you are out of mind. You see that, for example, in terms of livestock, the treatment of livestock in our mechanized society is appalling. People don't realize that because they don't see it. I’ll give you an example. In your average city, people will be able to tell you where the public library is, where the
Hospitals are, where the university is, but most people will not know where the slaughterhouse is. It's kept sort of hidden.

Ron Carlson: Sure.

Yann Martel: If you go into a slaughterhouse and you see how the animals are treated, it's appalling. It really is appalling. We don't want to see that because like eating our meat. We're big leisure eaters of meat, and so we hide it away. We don't live in a relationship with those animals, and they suffer as a consequence. And I think our own humanity is diminished as a result of it.

Ron Carlson: I understand. There is a lot of -- eating is one of the major activities,
Themes, if you want, in your novel. I want to ask about some of these episodes, especially as we read along -- and you speak with a great deal of surety and confidence about this book, but as I look at it, there have to have been moments when you were writing this book, and we have Pi arrive at an island with some trees and some algae, strange island, one of the strangest islands -- I’m trying to think -- maybe the strangest
Island I've read. How, as a writer -- do you just say, this is my story, I’m sticking to it, I’m going to have a wild, carnivorous island and people are going to buy it? I mean, I’m asking, did you have doubts in the process?

Yann Martel: Well, I think every writer, every creator has doubts at one point. I must admit this one, this book was a pleasure to write. I was in the lifeboat the whole time. It was a joy to write this book. As I was writing it in a sense, I was reading it and enjoying it. I think that's a first – a book's first reader is the writer.

Ron Carlson: Absolutely.

Yann Martel: And I loved writing on this book, the adventure element, the religious element, the zoological element. I enjoyed all three of them. The castaway element, I enjoyed all of it. So moments of doubt, very minor ones. As I was going along, how will I do this. Quite minor really, and the island, you mentioned the island. I was -- every writer in a story has some kind of narrative strategy.

Ron Carlson: That was a surprise to me when it came to the island. I had seen you enjoying yourself with the solar water collectors and all of the sailing and the raft dragging and all of that believable texture as the two creatures go forward. Then we came to this island and the story gets even maybe -- I’m not sure, but maybe more magical or maybe more metaphoric.

Yann Martel: That's what I wanted. See, what I was doing, my narrative strategy was to tell a story that was increasingly hard to believe. So the island represents something that is just beyond what can be reasonably believed. This story is -- it has the appearance of being an adventure story, but ultimately it is about the relationship between faith -- what can be believed reasonably and what cannot be believed reasonably and requires a leap of faith. So the island represents the leap of faith, that if you choose to believe it, you must abandon your excessive use of reason. So it shimmers just beyond the horizon of rationality. That's what the island is. And I loved writing the island. I needed something that was on the one hand unbelievable but remained interesting. That was the challenge, because often something that is no longer believable also loses its interest. So I had to create an island that was stretching the bounds of credulity, while remaining interesting -- well, hopefully fascinating.

Ron Carlson: Well, it's interesting. Pi gets to sleep with a mercat, and more than one.
I had to stop reading there for a minute and just kind of shake myself off. It's a stunning episode. Now, at the end of the story, you talked a minute ago about stories, that there would be two stories. We've talked about the imagination and reason and mystery, and at the end in the interrogation, Pi tells another story, and that's the other story. That's the second story.

Yann Martel: Yeah, in this novel there are two stories. To simplify it, there is a story with animals and a story without animals, and in a sense those stories are in competition, and the reader is invited to choose what happened. So in other words, the reader is invited to choose how to interpret reality, and reduced to its most simple elements, to simplify it, my novel argues that a life in which you use reason in moderation and entertain an element of the transcendental is a richer life than one that is strictly material.

Ron Carlson: Exactly.

Yann Martel: Now both are do-able.

Ron Carlson: Okay, I got it.

Yann Martel: You know, entire systems are based on a material view of reality. Obviously Marxist-Leninism is one example, but also environmentalism, essentially a materialist view of life. Most people unconsciously live purely materialist lives. I say that's at a certain loss to what we can be. And so an element that entertains the transcendental -- I say that rather than "the religious," because some people think religion is necessarily organized religion.

Ron Carlson: I understand.

Yann Martel: Actually transcendental, the idea that there is something beyond material reality, to entertain that idea enriches our lives and is not an insult to reason, but simply enriches our lives and adds a greater dimension to it. It can add ritual. It can add meaning, where otherwise there is none.

Ron Carlson: Based the reception of your book, it seems like a lot of people want that side. Now, before we go any further, I’m going to ask you, would you be willing to read a page or so from in the book?

Yann Martel: Yeah, sure.

Ron Carlson: Yann, it's anything you want, and we'll sample the book.

Yann Martel: This is one short chapter. It's about fear. At one point Pi is in his lifeboat, and he's confronted by this tiger. And it's -- imagine a real fierce tiger. So he has this panic attack, and this describes fear. It's chapter 56.

I must say a word about fear. It is life's only true opponent. Only fear can defeat life. Fear is a clever, treacherous adversary, how well I know. It has no decency, respects no law or convention, shows no mercy. Fear goes for your weakest spot, which it finds with unerring ease. It begins in your mind always. One moment you are feeling calm, self-possessed, happy. Then fear, disguised in the garb of mild-mannered doubt, slips into your mind like a spy. Doubt meets disbelief, and disbelief tries to push it out. But disbelief is a poorly armed foot soldier. Doubt does away with it with little trouble. You become anxious. Reason comes to do battle for you. You are reassured. Reason is fully equipped with the latest weapons technology, but, to your amazement, despite superior tactics and a number of undeniable victories, reason is laid low. You feel yourself weakening, wavering. Your anxiety becomes dread. Fear next turns fully to your body, which is already aware that something terribly wrong is going on. Already your lungs have flown away like a bird and your guts have slithered away like a snake. Now your tongue drops dead like an opossum, while your jaw begins to gallop on the spot. Your ears go deaf. Your muscles begin to shiver as If they had malaria and your knees to shake as though they were dancing. Your heart strains too hard while your sphincter relaxes too much. And so with the rest of your body. Every part of you, in the manner most suited to it, falls apart. Only your eyes work well. They always pay attention to fear. Quickly you make rash decisions. You dismiss your last allies: hope and trust. There, you've defeated yourself. Fear, which is but an impression, has triumphed over you. The matter is difficult to put into words, for fear, real fear, such as shakes you to your foundation, such as you feel when you are brought face to face with your mortal end, nestles in your memory like a gangrene: it seeks to rot everything, even the words with which to speak of it. So you must fight hard to express it. You must fight hard to shine the light of words upon it, because if you don't, if your fear becomes a wordless darkness that you avoid, perhaps even manage to forget, you open yourself to further attacks of fear, because you never truly fought the opponent who defeated you.

Ron Carlson: Thank you. Pi is afraid a lot, and he deals with it in special ways throughout the book. As we close this down, I’m thinking about the second story and the interrogation, as he recounts it, and the counterbalance -- let me pose a statement or question to you. As I read the book, I understood there was something else going on underneath beside this transcendental level, and then when he tells the second story, I understood that the first story may have been his way of dealing with the world, that it may have been his -- this isn't the right word – but translation of the events. Am I --

Yann Martel: That's one possible reading. I would argue that would be the rational reading, that we create stories to accept reality or to disguise reality.

Ron Carlson: Okay.

Yann Martel: The more transcendental reading would be, no, that the first element, the first story took place with the animals.

Ron Carlson: Sure.

Yann Martel: And what happened is that when Pi was interro -- you know, someone who has suffered wants his suffering to be accepted. And if your suffering is not accepted, that's galling. It's deeply hurtful. So the interrogators are skeptics. This is a novel about faith meeting skepticism. Now, the interrogators are skeptical. And so what Pi does is he creates a second more flat -- flatter story to appease the interrogators.

Ron Carlson: I get it.

Yann Martel: So in that case the animals are replaced by human beings because the interrogators are skeptical. So he is just trying to satisfy them.

Ron Carlson: I see. And you're pleased to have written -- I mean, so it's very provocative for the readers, because you have people coming to you with both the rational and this other side, I’m not going to say irrational. So Pi –

Yann Martel: I generally notice that how people read this book will often reflect how they look upon their lives, that people who are more able to make leaps of faith will believe the first story. Those who are not -- I’m not going to say less able – but who just have a different bent of mind will believe the second story.

Ron Carlson: I see.

Yann Martel: To my mind reality is a co-creation. Of course, you can't deny reality, but it is something that you create with many tools, one of which starts with our sense impressions, our eyes, our ears, our noses, but also our imagination. So this novel is also just a defense of the imagination.

Ron Carlson: Well, let me just say right now, it's an eloquent defense. We've enjoyed talking to you so much. We've been talking to Yann Martel about his novel, "life of
Pi." It is the 2004 Arizona OneBook selection. I hope you enjoyed Books & Co. I’m Ron Carlson. We'll see you next time.