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Mayo Clinic and Arizona State University Alliance for Health Care

Airdate: November 28, 2016
Arizona State University and Mayo Clinic are joining forces to improve health care delivery, increase research and open up a Mayo Clinic School of Medicine in Arizona. ASU president Michael Crow and Dr. Wyatt Decker, Mayo Clinic Chief Executive Officer, Arizona, will discuss the Mayo Clinic and Arizona State University Alliance for Health Care.

Guests:
  • Michael Crow, President, Arizona State University
  • Dr. Wyatt Decker, Mayo Clinic Chief Executive Officer, Arizona
Category: Medical/Health

Keywords: ASU, Mayo Clinic, healthcare, health, medicine, education,

View Transcript
CATHERINE ANAYA: ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY AND MAYO CLINIC ARE JOINING FORCES TO IMPROVE HEALTH CARE DELIVERY, INCREASE RESEARCH AND OPEN UP A MAYO CLINIC SCHOOL OF MEDICINE IN ARIZONA. HERE TO TELL US ABOUT THAT ALLIANCE IS ASU PRESIDENT DR. MICHAEL CROW AND DR. WYATT DECKER, MAYO CLINIC ARIZONA CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER. GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE. WE HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE COLLABORATION, A MARRIAGE BETWEEN A RECOGNIZED WORLD LEADER IN PATIENT CARE, EDUCATION, RESEARCH JOINING FORCES WITH THE NATION’S MOST INNOVATIVE UNIVERSITY. THIS IS A RELATIONSHIP THAT GOES BACK MANY YEARS, RIGHT?

MICHAEL CROW: 12 YEARS AGO WE STARTED AN EVOLUTION OF A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A COMPREHENSIVE UNIVERSITY AND A COMPREHENSIVE CLINIC. A LOT OF THINGS HAVE HAPPENED AND THIS IS WHERE WE ARE NOW.

CATHERINE ANAYA: TELL ME ABOUT THE ALLIANCE. WHAT DOES IT ENCOMPASS?

WYATT DECKER: WE ARE VERY EXCITED AND THIS REALLY REPRESENTS AN EVOLUTION OF THIS DEEP AND RICH RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR TWO ORGANIZATIONS. THE MAYOR CLINIC ASU ALLIANCE FOR HEALTHCARE IS FOCUSED ON DISCOVERY, MEDICAL RESEARCH, 80 FACULTY WITH APPOINTMENTS OR CREW RECRUITED BY BOTH ORGANIZATIONS. WE HAVE A FOCUS ON EDUCATION, NURSING EDUCATION AND THE MAYOR CLINIC SCHOOL OF MEDICINE WHICH WE BELIEVE WILL BE THE MOST INNOVATIVE FOR ITS CLASS OPENING IN JUNE OF 2017. THEN THE WHOLE PRACTICE SIDE OF MEDICINE. WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE COST OF MEDICINE IN THE UNITED STATES. WE SPEND MORE PER CAPITA THAN ANY OTHER NATION YET WE SEE RESULTS THAT ARE FRAGMENTED. THIS IS RELENTLESSLY FOCUSED ON INNOVATIONS IN HEALTH CARE TO RAISE THE STANDARD OF CARE WHILE LOWERING THE COST OF CARE.

CATHERINE ANAYA: YOU ARE BRINGING THE MOST BRILLIANT MINDS TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE. WHAT MAKES THIS COLLABORATION SO SPECIAL, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF US IN ARIZONA?

MICHAEL CROW: THIS IS A WAY TO TAKE A WORLD CLASS CLINIC AND THE MOST INNOVATIVE UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY AND BRING TOGETHER THE SKILL SETS AND THE AMBITIONS OF CHANGING HEALTH CARE OUTCOMES. WE ARE LOOKING TO CHANGE COMMUNITY LEVEL OUTCOMES, INDIVIDUAL LEVEL OUTCOMES, FAMILY LEVEL OUTCOMES, LOWER COST AND RETHINK THE DESIGN. WE HAVEN'T BROUGHT ENOUGH TALENT TO BEAR. THIS ALLIANCE IS MEANT TO TAKE BEHAVIORAL SCIENCES, TEACHING, LEARNING, MATHEMATICAL SCIENCES, BRING ALL OF THOSE AREAS TOGETHER AND RETHINK THE WAY WE DO SOME OF THESE THINGS.

CATHERINE ANAYA: TALK TO ME ABOUT THE VISION FOR THE NATIONAL MEDICAL SCHOOL THAT WILL COME TO FRUITION IN ARIZONA. WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN YOU ARE PREPARING THE PHYSICIANS OF THE FUTURE?

WYATT DECKER: ABSOLUTELY. THE IDEA IS THAT MEDICAL EDUCATION FOR MEDICAL STUDENTS HAS NOT HAD A SUBSTANTIAL IMPROVEMENT OR UPGRADE IN OVER A HUNDRED YEARS. IT'S TWO PRECLINICAL YEARS AND TWO CLINICAL YEARS. THERE HAVE BEEN UPGRADES, BUT WE THINK IT'S TIME FOR A REBOOT. WE HAVE AN ENTIRE CURRICULUM WE HOPE TO CREATE TOGETHER CALLED THE SCIENCE OF HEALTHCARE DELIVERY. IMAGINE STUDENTS BEING TAUGHT TO DIAGNOSE AND TREAT THE DISEASES, THEY ARE ALSO TAUGHT TO UNDERSTAND AND MEASURE AND IMPROVE THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM THEY ARE IN.

CATHERINE ANAYA: THIS CURRICULUM IS GETTING WIDE ACCLAIM FOR WHAT IT OFFERS. HOW DOES THE TRAINING DIFFER FROM ANYWHERE ELSE?

MICHAEL CROW: IT'S AN INTEGRATED WAY TO ADVANCE THE SCHOOL OF HEALTH CARE DELIVERY AND MEDICAL SCHOOL TOGETHER. YOU HAVE TO PUT INTO YOUR MIND A NOTION THAT WHILE PHYSICIANS ARE FANTASTICALLY TRAINED, THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS PICKED BECAUSE OF THEIR SIGNIFICANT INTELLECT, CAPABILITIES, SIGNIFICANT ABILITY TO LEARN. WE ARE IN A SENSE UPGRADING THEIR LEARNING ENVIRONMENT BY SEVERAL LEVELS TO MAKE THEM NOT JUST SCIENTISTS AND PHYSICIANS AND THINKERS AND HEALERS, BUT SCIENTISTS, PHYSICIANS THINKERS, HEALERS, SYSTEMS ENGINEERS, ECONOMISTS ALL TOGETHER. WE THINK OUT OF THAT YOU GET A WHOLE NEW TYPE OF MEDICAL CARE OUTCOME DERIVATIVE OF THIS NEW TYPE OF PHYSICIAN.

CATHERINE ANAYA: THE RESEARCH IS A BIG COMPONENT. TELL ME ABOUT THAT?

WYATT DECKER: WE HAVE COME TO RECOGNIZE THAT IN ORDER TO SOLVE THE HEALTH PROBLEM OF TODAY AND THE FUTURE, WE NEED TO THINK BEYOND THE BOUNDARIES OF OUR ORGANIZATION AT THE MAYO CLINIC AND REACH OUT FOR COLLABORATORS AND PARTNERSHIPS. WE HAVE HUNDREDS BUT NONE ARE DEEPER OR BROADER THAN OUR COLLABORATION WITH ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY. IMAGINE TAKING THE NATION’S LEADER IN PATIENT CARE INNOVATION RESEARCH AND COLLABORATING WITH THE MOST INNOVATIVE UNIVERSITY. RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE YOU HAVE POTENTIAL TO TAKE THE PROBLEMS OF TODAY AND DELIVER MEANINGFUL SOLUTIONS. WE HAVE COME TOGETHER TO CREATE SEED GRANTS INVESTING IN OUR ORGANIZATION THE PAST YEAR $2.7 MILLION TO FUND INNOVATIONS WHERE ASU SCIENTISTS ARE WORKING WITH MAYOR CLINIC SCIENTISTS OR PHYSICIANS OR BOTH TO DEVELOP SOLUTIONS FOR HOW DOES SOMEONE WITH AN UPPER EXTREMITY AMPUTATION SENSE WHAT THEIR PROSTHETIC LIMB IS DOING? WE HAVE TEAMS WORKING ON THAT TOGETHER RIGHT NOW.

CATHERINE ANAYA: PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE RISING COST OF HEALTHCARE. HOW DOES A COLLABORATION ALLIANCE EFFECT HEALTHCARE COSTS EVENTUALLY?

WYATT DECKER: THERE IS A MISNOMER THAT TECHNOLOGY DRIVES UP HEALTHCARE COSTS. WE WOULD TAKE ISSUE WITH THAT. NOW UNFETTERED, UNCHECKED, UNMEASURED TECHNOLOGY CAN BE A PROBLEM BUT WHAT IF WE FIND NEW WAYS TO LEVERAGE NEW FORMS OF COMMUNICATION SUCH AS THE DIGITAL COMMUNICATIONS THROUGH VIDEO LINKAGES WITH DOCTORS? IT’S ACTUALLY NOT THAT NEW ANYMORE, BUT WHAT IF WE STUDY IT AND FIND NEW WAYS FOR RELATIONSHIPS WITH PATIENTS AT A DISTANCE. WE HAVE DEPLOYED SOME OF THESE SOLUTIONS THROUGH THE TELEHEALTH NETWORK. THAT IS ONE EXAMPLE USING TECHNOLOGY TO ACTUALLY SOLVE PROBLEMS AND LOWER COSTS.

MICHAEL CROW: ANOTHER EXAMPLE WORTH MENTIONING, THE COST OF HEALTHCARE IS DERIVATIVE OF THE LATE STAGE IN WHICH THE CLINICAL APPARATUS ENGAGES THE PERSON AS A PATIENT. THE PERSON SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN A LIFELONG EDUCATIONAL ACTIVITY HELPING THEM MAKE BETTER DECISIONS, HELPING THEM UNDERSTAND THEIR OWN BODIES BETTER. A LOT OF DISEASES BEFORE THEY ARE CHRONIC, IF THEY CAN BE MORE QUICKLY IDENTIFIED, THEY CAN BE TREATED AT A LOWER COST. WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT'S WAITING FOR THE PATIENT TO ARRIVE RATHER THAN ENGAGING THE PATIENT THEIR ENTIRE LIVES. WE NEED EVERYONE TO COME TOGETHER TO MAKE THAT THING HAPPEN.

CATHERINE ANAYA: WHY DO YOU THINK THAT HAS NOT BEEN HAPPENING UP TO THIS POINT OR HAPPENING ENOUGH?

WYATT DECKER: THERE IS A COMMON TENDENCY FOR MEDICAL CENTERS TO GET LOCKED IN SILOS AND WORK ONLY WITH SCIENTISTS IN THEIR NARROW DISCIPLINES. AT MAYO CLINIC, WE BELIEVE TEAM BASED WORK EXTENDS BEYOND OUR WALLS TO OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, OTHER SCIENTISTS AND THE OTHER DISCIPLINES. ASU BRINGS THE FULL ACADEMIC PORTFOLIO OF DISCIPLINES FROM ENGINEERS TO SOCIAL SCIENTISTS TO PSYCHOLOGISTS TO BUSINESS PROFESSIONALS AND HUMANITY EXPERTS BRINGING UNIQUE SKILL SETS TO HELP IN A MULTIDISCIPLINARY WAY THAT SITTING HERE TODAY, WE CAN'T IMAGINE ALL OF THEM.

MICHAEL CROW: EVERY SYSTEM WE HAVE IS A FUNCTION OF A DESIGN OF THE SYSTEM. EVERY PRODUCT IS A FUNCTION OF THE DESIGN. EVERY DESIGN PRODUCES PEOPLE THAT WORK WITHIN THE SYSTEM. BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT ALTERED THE DESIGN OR WHO WE ARE PRODUCING GOING INTO THE SYSTEM IN TERMS OF HOW THEY WORK, HOW THEY VIEW PROBLEMS, CONSTRUCT PROBLEMS, THINK ABOUT SOLVING THINGS, WE ARE GETTING THE SAME OUTCOMES, EVEN THE DETERIORATION OF OUTCOMES AT A HIGHER COST. WE HAVE TO RESTRUCTURE WHAT WE ARE DOING. THAT'S WHAT THE ALLIANCE IS ABOUT.

CATHERINE ANAYA: YOU SAY THIS COLLABORATION GOES BACK A DECADE. WHAT HAS BEEN THE MOST SURPRISING THING FOR YOU IN THE PROCESS SO FAR?

MICHAEL CROW: FOR ME, THE MOST SURPRISING THING WORKING WITH THE MAYO CLINIC, AND I HAVE BEEN WITH IT SINCE THE BEGINNING, HAS BEEN THE WILLINGNESS OF THE MAYO CLINIC TO SIT WITH AN INSTITUTION THAT'S DIFFERENT CULTURALLY, AND WORK TOGETHER WITH US, AND THE POSITIVE THINGS THAT HAVE COME OUT OF IT, NEW WAYS OF THINKING, NEW WAYS OF MAKING THINGS HAPPEN. THE MOST SURPRISING THING TO ME, WHAT I SAID ABOUT DESIGN AND PEOPLE IS TRUE. YOU ALTER DESIGN YOU GET DIFFERENT OUTCOMES. YOU CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE COME TOGETHER, YOU GET DIFFERENT OUTCOMES. I HAVE BEEN SURPRISED BY THE POSITIVE LEVEL OF THE OUTCOMES.

CATHERINE ANAYA: I IMAGINE THE SAME GOES FOR YOU?

WYATT DECKER: ABSOLUTELY. FINDING TWO ORGANIZATIONS AS LARGE AS WE ARE, ASU CONTRIBUTES $5 BILLION TO THE ECONOMY, HERE IN ARIZONA MAYO CLINIC CONTRIBUTES $2 BILLION, NATIONALLY $8 BILLION TO THE NATIONAL ECONOMY. YOU WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR THE TWO LARGE OUTSIDER ENTRENCHED ORGANIZATIONS TO WORK TOGETHER, BUT IT'S BECOME GRASSROOTS WHERE A PROFESSOR AT ASU CAN REACH OUT TO A PHYSICIAN AT MAYO CLINIC AND PROJECTS ARE STARTED EVERY WEEK.

CATHERINE ANAYA: IT'S THE PERFECT UNION. QUICKLY, DR. CROW, SINCE YOU ARE HERE AND WE HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES, I WANT TO DIGRESS BECAUSE I KNOW YOU SENT OUT A LETTER TO THE ASU COMMUNITY TALKING ABOUT AND REEMPHASIZING THE SUPPORT ASU HAS FOR DACA STUDENTS AND STUDENTS IN GENERAL. WHAT IS THE LEVEL OF CONCERN ON CAMPUS RIGHT NOW?

MICHAEL CROW: I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW THEIR STUDENT COLLEAGUES WILL BE AFFECTED BY POLICY CHANGES. THEY WENT TO SCHOOL WITH THEM IN ARIZONA, GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL, ADMITTED TO THE UNIVERSITY AND MEETING QUALIFICATIONS. ARE THEY THEMSELVES HERE BECAUSE OF THEIR PARENT'S CHOICES? I THINK WE HAVE A STRONG DESIRE AT EVERY LEVEL OF THE INSTITUTION TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THE STUDENTS HAVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING THE UNIVERSITY HAS TO OFFER.

CATHERINE ANAYA: WHAT CONVERSATIONS HAVE YOU HAD UP TO THIS POINT IN REGARD TO WHETHER DACA GOES AWAY? HAVE YOU BROACHED THAT AT ALL?

MICHAEL CROW: IT EXISTED, THEN DIDN'T EXIST THEN IT EXISTED AND MIGHT NOT EXIST IN THE FUTURE. OUR COMMITMENT IS TO THE INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES TO HELP THESE STUDENTS BE EDUCATED TO MOVE FORWARD AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE INTERESTED IN. IT TURNS OUT THAT THE FOUNDERS OF THE ARIZONA AND WRITERS OF THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION WERE CLEAR THAT EVERY CHILD IN ARIZONA WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO A FREE EDUCATION K-12 AGE 5 OR SIX TO 21. THEY WERE CLEAR ALSO THAT THE SAME CHILDREN WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO UNIVERSITY AT A PRICE CLOSE TO FREE AS POSSIBLE. THEY TALKED ABOUT ARIZONA BEING A WELCOMING HOME TO IMMIGRANTS AND ISSUES THAT WE FACE TODAY THEY FACED THEN. WE BELIEVE WE ARE ACTING IN THE SPIRIT OF THE DESIGNERS OF ARIZONA AS A PLACE.

CATHERINE ANAYA: WE APPRECIATE YOU AND YOUR COMMITMENT TO THE STUDENTS. WE THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. ALSO YOU DR. DECKER, THANK YOU. FOR MORE INFORMATION YOU CAN GO TO MAYO.ASU.EDU. THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.