Horizon, Host: Ted Simons

April 27, 2005


Host: Jose Cardenas

Domestic Violence


  • Thousands walk the walk on Saturday to end domestic violence, and another step in the right direction, a new bill dealing with spousal rape is signed by the Governor this week.
Guests:
  • Robbie Sherwood - legislative reporter, "The Arizona Republic"
  • Dale Wiebusch - Director of Systems Advocacy for the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence


View Transcript
>> José Cárdenas:
Tonight on "Horizon," state lawmakers present a budget that contains what the Governor wants, funding for full day kindergarten. The problem, it also contains items the Governor doesn't want. Plus, thousands walk the walk on Saturday to end domestic violence, and another step in the right direction, a new bill dealing with spousal rape is signed by the Governor this week. That's next on "Horizon."

>> Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by the friends of Channel 8, members who provide financial support to this Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

>> José Cárdenas:
Good evening, I'm José Cárdenas filling in tonight for Michael Grant. Welcome to "Horizon." Two issues have worked their way into budget negotiations at the capitol. One is a bill that would offer limited school vouchers. Another is a request for $7 million in funding for a University of Arizona medical school in downtown Phoenix. Republican leaders want more answers before they approve money for a downtown Phoenix medical school. The vouchers bill would allow 1500 vouchers a year for low-income students starting next year. The bill also contains a tuition tax credit for businesses that donate money for private or parochial schools. Here's what some lawmakers had to say about the latest budget issues.

>> Steve Tully:
Vouchers is a way of raising children, especially because the voucher programs that have been suggested, most of them target low income kids, parents who can't afford to send their children to private schools. There have been suggestion that is we say to those children, you don't have one choice to educate your children in the public school, let's give you some -- another choice, and so, you know, that's a strong philosophical tenet of most of the Republicans in the house and the senate.

>> John McComish:
I think what we'd like to see in the legislature is a little more of a plan. In my opinion, it's probably a good idea. It's probably something we need, if you look at it in terms of an expansion of the UA medical school, which I believe it is, into downtown Phoenix, which is probably a good thing, but just because we want to do this good thing, we still need to say, okay, we want to put $7 million in the budget for this year, well, what's the long-term implications of that? It's not just $7 million this year, it's so many more millions down the road and how many more millions is that and exactly what are we going to get for that? How many doctors? What's the plan? What's the state's obligation?

>> Carolyn Allen
These are kamikaze missions. There are people who are willing to stay through June and into July. I wonder how the public will feel if we shut down the government because these people are determined. This is not about the money, it's about the policy. They don't want her to have anything that she wants. They don't -- she wants Kindergarten, and I believe most of the public wants kindergarten, without vouchers attached to it. She wants the medical school. It's $7 million. We just saw the amount of money that has come in. It was predicted that it would be about $37 million. It's over $100 million, and next months the revenues. And it's going to come even higher. If they cannot give us $7 million for the beginning of this medical school, it's all political and it's all about a bunch of people, in my opinion, that belong to the flat earth society. They basically meet in the house, but we have a little subset over here in the senate, and they are prepared to stay down here and they think they can run the same budget up over and over until she signs it. This woman does not bully, and these people are on a fool's errand.

>> José Cárdenas:
Here with some details on the battle over the budget, Robbie Sherwood, legislative reporter with "The Arizona Republic." Robbie, thank you for joining us. Some pretty harsh comments from Senator Allen. Is everybody as frustrated as she seems to be?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Well, I think Democrats and moderate leaning Republicans and some who you wouldn't consider died in the wool moderates like she is are growing in frustration, and what it's based on is this feeling that even though there's been some movement in the budget, they are moving things through, that this --

>> José Cárdenas:
Movement in what sense?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Well, the package, this new-look package, compromised package is moving through appropriations committees now, yesterday in the house and today in the senate, for the most part. It appears ready to go for a full house vote, but this intertwining school vouchers and the expansion of tuition tax credits to corporations with all-day kindergarten, plus some other eligibility requirements and things that the Governor doesn't like is a sure veto, along with the lack of a medical school funding, and so they wonder why are we doing this?

>> José Cárdenas:
I want to talk about some of those specific things, but when you say it's a compromise package, you mean two different groups the Republican --

>> Robbie Sherwood:
It was not a compromise between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats have yet to be talked to about this. The house and senate leadership have set sort of an artificial ground rule for themselves that they want -- because they have majorities in both houses, they want the votes for this budget to come from their caucuses. The expression that Senator Allen was expressing was -- the frustration that she was expressing was over that ground rule, because what you've done, what the leaders have done is empowered the most conservative, fiscally conservative members of the caucus to control the process, to make demands on the budget that in order to get your 16 and 31 votes for a majority, these guys have to be brought on board. That's what the vouchers and school choice thing was about.

>> José Cárdenas:
But they are giving the Governor full-day K, which is what she wanted. What's the problem with that?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Because she is adamantly opposed to school choice measures for vouchers and expanding the tuition school tax credit beyond what it is. She believes that there are enough charters -- we have the largest charter school movement in Arizona, and we have tuition tax credits, roughly about $30 million a year already in place. She would rather see that money spent on the regular public education.

>> José Cárdenas:
But the focus for the vouchers would be low income students and only 1500. What would the Governor's objections be to that?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Simply probably the same objections that the Republicans express about the medical school. You know, $7 million is not all this is going to cost. It's going to cost much more down the line and no one is telling us how big this is going to get. I don't think that anybody is convinced that, you know, starting the ball rolling at 1500 kids would be the end of any effort to expand vouchers throughout state. I think that would simply be the proverbial camel's nose under the tent. I don't think she wants to go there.

>> José Cárdenas:
The total cost once fully implemented would be $70 million in --

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Yes, about $70 million because you're bringing in about 1500 new kids every year, and that voucher stays with them through their K through 12 education. And so at full implementation you are looking at 20,000 kids each getting $3500 a year. I'm not a mathematician but I think that's about $70 million.

>> José Cárdenas:
The Governor's objections to what's been proposed in all-day K are not simply with respect to vouchers, it's also some requirements on reporting everything else. Tell us about that.

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Some extra reporting, some mandated research before you continue to expand the program, to prove once and for all that there is a benefit for all-day kindergarten. Some eligibility requirements about requiring school survey 100\% of kids on school lunch, free and reduced school lunch programs which is how they implement it now, the poorest get it first. That would cause some hardships on schools administratively because right now they only have to do a random survey to get the federal funds to pay the program. It's beyond what the Feds are even requiring. It would actually cause some schools to fall off the program if they didn't maintain their eligibility when the goal is actually to take this statewide in 5 years. I guess she thinks that's antithetical to her goal. If this budget now goes up without this medical school, without -- with all-day kindergarten and vouchers in there the way they are, the word on the street is it's dead on arrival. So you are back at square one, and I believe that was the key frustration being expressed by the lawmakers. What are we going to be doing? Are we going to be stuck until June and if we are, who wins, the Governor who is sticking up for a program she says the public wholeheartedly supports, and I don't know that a majority support is there for vouchers, although it might be for the limited style for the low income kids. Who is going to win that stalemate?

>> José Cárdenas:
Talking about popularity contests, the latest polls for the Governor are very, very high.

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Yes, 74\% according to the latest KAET poll. So she's probably sitting in her office and thinking I have both the public and time on my side because another thing that Senator Allen hinted at was a number of $110 million. What she's talking about are new revenue numbers. The longer these guys wait, the more money comes in. The economy is doing well right now, and it was a last-month when $87 million came in, that allowed them to not go into the rainy day fund and fund some things to put some money where the Governor said she needed it. Now there is now another $110 million on top of that. The longer they wait, the more money there is, and the more leverage that the Governor has when you are talking about cutting things like general assistance for the homeless, that sort of thing.

>> José Cárdenas:
Which is only what about $4 million?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
$4 million a year for 1200 people. We're not cutting because we're broke, we're cutting because we disagree.

>> José Cárdenas:
What we have is the converse of the old cliche when people say it's not about the money, it is about the money. Here it's ideology.

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Not any more it's not about the money. You could say that we are in debt to our schools because we had this midnight reversion rollover for $100 million, but the longer we wait around, we should have the cash to take care of that in a year or so provided there is not an interruption to the economy like a terrorist attack or anything like that, heaven forbid.

>> José Cárdenas: The Governor is pro business, why would she oppose this business tax credit?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
This is not one of the things that the corporate world is clamoring for. This is something that the school choice movement is clamoring for. What the Governor favors instead of that is property tax relief for businesses because businesses are assessed at a higher ratio than homeowners. It's considered to be a disincentive for businesses to expand or locate here.

>> José Cárdenas:
That's where the business community is focused?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Right. That's what she wants to do. The corporate tuition tax credit, she thinks, is less about helping businesses than it is about helping increase population in private and parochial schools.

>> José Cárdenas:
The other big snag in talking about the issues in the intro, the medical school, only $7 million. Why is that holding up a budget?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Because they don't know -- the Republicans want more information about how big this is going to get, what kind of doctors will be created by this thing, and how much is it going to cost them down the line. They feel that information is coming to them, but this is really something that's in its infancy but needs to have this money this year in order to guarantee that it can be accredited under the umbrella of the University of Arizona, that it will get its accreditation and get started. The argument is we need the $7 million this year in order to start that. So it's very important. She's drawn a line in the sand about that. So far, they haven't given in.

>> José Cárdenas:
But there has been a proposal for $5 million?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
It came out today in the senate in their appropriations committees. It's not something that the house did, so we don't know how much support there is for it. They couldn't get votes in the Senate appropriations committee from their own Republican caucus. The Democrats refuse to talk about it because it was handed to them 3 seconds before they were supposed to vote on it, and it wasn't something that was is really vetted, discussed, didn't have any sort of testimony or information. So they just refused to deal with it. And Senator Ken Bennett whose idea this was, could not get the vote this was could not get votes from his own Republicans.

>> José Cárdenas:
What about more money for CPS workers is that an ideological issue?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
They put more in on the house side. I mean, they dislike Child Protective Services, the job that they are doing to quite a large extent, but that was something that they gave the Governor. I think they want to pigeon hole her that if she is going to kill this budget, it's going to be over two issues, all-day kindergarten and medical school -- three issues, really, and school choice, and they will attempt to paint her as being petulant and unfair when you are willing to kill an 8.2 billion dollar budget, which gives you most of what you want over a couple of pet issues.

>> José Cárdenas:
That's an exchange they will both make. What about child care subsidies?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Well, they've given her -- they didn't give her the full amount she originally requested but they have given her authority to spend some federal dollars that the Governor believes will -- it's $6 million rather than $12, but it should be enough to keep families off of a waiting list for the next year, which was the goal.

>> José Cárdenas:
Last question or at least last area, Senator Allen seemed to be predicting that it's going to come down to shutting down the government kind of situation that we've seen at the federal level. Do you think that's what we're going to see?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
I don't know that it gets that far down the road. How many Republicans are willing to just send her up a budget just to see it rejected over and over again to make a point? Or will you start to see people or coalitions form to go and work with the Democrats where there would be enough votes and pass a budget over the leader's head as they did last year. There is a lot of political ramifications to doing that, but that's also an easier way out.

>> José Cárdenas:
What's your prediction?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Mercy, I don't want to make -- I honestly -- this is completely new territory for budgets. I've covered five in a row, and they've never been the same.

>> José Cárdenas:
Robbie Sherwood with "The Arizona Republic," thank you for joining us.

>> Robbie Sherwood:
You're welcome.

>> José Cárdenas:
Domestic violence is aggressive or controlling behavior by a present or former relationship partner. It is a purposeful, intimidating pattern of behavior that can include physical or psychological abuse or economic or physical isolation. But last Saturday, thousands of people, including Governor Napolitano, took part in an event organized to raise money and awareness of the problem. The walk to end domestic violence drew more than 4,000 people and raised nearly $300,000 for shelters and domestic violence programs. One program that will receive some funding from the event is the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence, an organization that is calling for volunteers on specific committees. Here's a look at those committees.

>>Merry Lucero:
Budget and finance prepares the annual budget for each fiscal year. Outreach works on increasing visibility, extending work into under-served communities and raising funds. The health issues committee provides guidance on health issues, state and national policies, laws and regulations and on coalition programs and activities related to the health of victims and children who have experienced domestic violence. Legal looks at the problems and barriers victims face in accessing justice and receiving fair treatment and takes steps to remedy those barriers. Legislative monitors and reviews state and national laws and regulations that have implications for domestic violence victims and survivors. Nominating and Membership recruits people and processes membership and board applications. Personnel, updates the personnel manual and addresses personnel issues as they arise. P.E.E.R.S. addresses domestic violence in the gay and lesbian community. S.H.A.R.E. is a group of survivors who discuss issues related to domestic violence. The Speakers Bureau speak to the public about their experiences. Strategic planning works on the goals and functions of the coalition. And the Women of Color Committee draws participation by outreach through various activities to under-represented populations in Arizona. You need not identify as a woman of color to participate.

>> José Cárdenas:
Here to talk more about some current domestic violence issues, Dale Wiebusch, director of systems advocacy for the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence. Dale, thank you for joining us on "Horizon."

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Thank you for having me.

>> José Cárdenas:
The figure I have is one in four women suffer from domestic violence. Where does that number come from?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
There are a number of surveys nationally and statewide that have gone to phone interviews or talking with people that access different services and so the one in four is actually within their lifetime will experience some form of domestic violence.

>> José Cárdenas:
So the need is tremendous?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Incredibly tremendous.

>> José Cárdenas:
Is that why you are recruiting volunteers?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
That is a large reason why we are recruiting volunteers. Plus at the coalition, we operate on a real community consensus model and we get input from a variety of people before we proceed on certain things, and we'd really like to hear from people out in the community, what kind of direction we should be taking in terms of our activities.

>> José Cárdenas:
Can you give us a thumbnail sketch of the history of the coalition?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Well actually, we're in our 25th year. This is our silver anniversary. We were founded in 1980, our 25th year. It was formed by concerned citizens and volunteers. First paid staff was somewhere in the late 80s. We are now at 15 staff people and we have statewide membership. We work in areas of training and education and providing what I do, for example, is public policy or systems advocacy work, so working with the legislature, court systems, police departments, et cetera, and try to really look at domestic violence from a multi-pronged approach and address it from a variety of levels.

>> José Cárdenas:
One of the new committees you are recruiting for is a men's committee. Can you tell us about that?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
We've had men call us and say we would like to become more involved, how can we do that. We've had enough people call us, and I'm the only male that works at the coalition, so I can't form my own committee by myself, and so we're trying to find a way that we can get more men working on this issue, and we've had good responses from a variety of community organizations that said they would like to be involved and have men working on how do we reach more men to end domestic violence.

>> José Cárdenas:
Does it strike you at all odd or just significant that you've been in existence for 25 years and men are at least half of this issue, and only now you have a men's committee?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
I think that as you showed the clip of the walk, the awareness of domestic violence as an issue that affects all of us, that it's not just a women's issue, that it affects women primarily as the victims, but as a society, we see it in medical costs and employment costs and how children are raised in homes like that, and so that -- where domestic violence is now, it takes a long time for issues like this to really garner a wide range of support, including from the gender that perpetrates most of the violence.

>> José Cárdenas:
How successful are you in getting volunteers for the new committees? How is that going?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
We have some committees that are very, very active and larger than others, and what we'd like to do is actually broaden our support and not only just some things that are new, like the men's committee, but also some of the other ones, I, for example, had a meeting this morning of our legal committee. We're resurrecting that. We had 8 people at that meeting. I would like to see that committee be 20, 25 people. Some of the committees are longstanding. My legislative committee consistently 25 people at it because that's a hot topic.

>> José Cárdenas:
I want to talk about legislative matters being considered right now, but before we do that, you've got -- let's talk about that, because I don't want to run out of time. I want to make sure we cover it. A million and a half dollars for domestic violence in the budget right now. Do you think that's going to stay there?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
The optimist says yes to that, because in terms of -- it's got a very finite assignment to it. $1.5 million provides 75 beds that can be opened July 1st or whenever they get the budget out. Those kind of finite figures is what the legislators really like. If you look in the grand scheme of things, that's a small amount of money. To fully fund -- we turn away on average in this state, two-thirds of the people that call for shelter, because we don't have enough beds. So this is just a drop in the bucket. But we want to get enough drops over time to fill that bucket up.

>> José Cárdenas:
We talked in our prior segment about the Governor and legislature being at loggerheads and not much happening there, but something of great significance to everybody in Arizona did pass and that's Senate Bill 1040, the spousal rape bill, signed by the Governor, tell us about that.

>> Dale Wiebusch:
During sexual assault awareness month, which is April -- this was actually legislation brought to our attention by a brave young woman a couple of years ago, so prior to last session. She had been a victim of this crime, and her offender received very minimal punishment, because in the past, spousal rape has been a class 6 felony or the judge has the discretion to reduce it to a misdemeanor. So this woman worked with her representative who contacted us. We worked it last year, it didn't get through last year.

>> José Cárdenas:
It didn't get through committee.

>> Dale Wiebusch:
It didn't get through rules committee last year. It ended up not being a repeal of the spousal rape exemption, it just inched towards it. So it was not as powerful a bill last year. This year, the senator who held it in rules last year because he called it not a good bill, Senator Blendu wasn't the sponsor of it this year.

>> José Cárdenas:
What made him change his mind?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
It was a couple of things. By the time it got to his committee, it was watered down. It was not a class 2 felony like non-spousal rape, it was going to be a class 4. It still had certain elements in it of having to have used force or threatened use of force in it and Senator Blendu wanted a cleaner version.

>> José Cárdenas:
It wasn't strong enough?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Yes.

>> José Cárdenas:
And now is it the same? Spousal, non-spousal rape are treated identically?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
It does not matter if somebody rapes their wife, their husband or a stranger, it is the same penalty.

>> José Cárdenas:
Another measure in the legislature, confidentiality of records for domestic violence and stalking victims.

>> Dale Wiebusch:
That was sponsored by Senator Wearing (phonetic). It provides the same protection to domestic violence victims and stalking victims as judges and police officers have in regards to having their records confidential. The worst time for a woman that's fleeing a domestic violence situation in terms of lethality is exactly when she needs the most protection. So she's leaving the relationship, she needs the protection, and if she moves into a new house and her records can be accessed by anyone, well, then the perpetrator can find her and perpetuate the violence. But with this bill, she now can have her records sealed. The perpetrator cannot find out where she lives. That's a great boon to victims.

>> José Cárdenas:
The walk to end domestic violence you had thousands of supporters out there. How successful in terms of your organization was the event?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Well, one of the mission statements of the coalition, so to speak, is that we lead and that we educate, and in order to eliminate domestic violence within Arizona. And this is a great public awareness event. This garners support from all age groups and all ethnic groups, and it also is a tool for people to physically demonstrate their passion about the issue, and the movement. The monies generated go to domestic violence programs across the state. There are over 30, including ourselves. We receive a small portion of the funding. Last year there was approximately $100,000.

>> José Cárdenas:
You've got 30 seconds left. I want to make sure we talk about the cut it off program.

>> Dale Wiebusch:
It's a great new program between the Attorney General's Office, the Arizona State Board of Cosmetology and the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence, training cosmetologist to assist victims of domestic violence. People go to their hairstylists more than their doctor, so it's a great opportunity for people to have another contact point to get assistance when they are most in need.

>> José Cárdenas:
Dale Wiebusch, from Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence, thank you for joining us. To see transcripts, go to our web site at www.azpbs.org.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Home ownership rates among minorities lag behind those of non-minorities. A new study found that half the difference between white and nonwhite rates can be attributed to things like income but can be caused by home-buying myths. We'll tell you about it Thursday at 7:00 on channel 8's "Horizon" program.

>> José Cárdenas:
Thank you for joining us tonight on "Horizon." I'm José Cárdenas. Have a great evening. I hope you enjoyed the show.

state budget


  • state lawmakers present a budget that contains what the Governor wants, funding for full day kindergarten. The problem is it also contains items the Governor doesn't want.
Guests:
  • Robbie Sherwood - legislative reporter, "The Arizona Republic"
  • Dale Wiebusch - Director of Systems Advocacy for the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence


View Transcript
>> José Cárdenas:
Tonight on "Horizon," state lawmakers present a budget that contains what the Governor wants, funding for full day kindergarten. The problem, it also contains items the Governor doesn't want. Plus, thousands walk the walk on Saturday to end domestic violence, and another step in the right direction, a new bill dealing with spousal rape is signed by the Governor this week. That's next on "Horizon."

>> Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by the friends of Channel 8, members who provide financial support to this Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

>> José Cárdenas:
Good evening, I'm José Cárdenas filling in tonight for Michael Grant. Welcome to "Horizon." Two issues have worked their way into budget negotiations at the capitol. One is a bill that would offer limited school vouchers. Another is a request for $7 million in funding for a University of Arizona medical school in downtown Phoenix. Republican leaders want more answers before they approve money for a downtown Phoenix medical school. The vouchers bill would allow 1500 vouchers a year for low-income students starting next year. The bill also contains a tuition tax credit for businesses that donate money for private or parochial schools. Here's what some lawmakers had to say about the latest budget issues.

>> Steve Tully:
Vouchers is a way of raising children, especially because the voucher programs that have been suggested, most of them target low income kids, parents who can't afford to send their children to private schools. There have been suggestion that is we say to those children, you don't have one choice to educate your children in the public school, let's give you some -- another choice, and so, you know, that's a strong philosophical tenet of most of the Republicans in the house and the senate.

>> John McComish:
I think what we'd like to see in the legislature is a little more of a plan. In my opinion, it's probably a good idea. It's probably something we need, if you look at it in terms of an expansion of the UA medical school, which I believe it is, into downtown Phoenix, which is probably a good thing, but just because we want to do this good thing, we still need to say, okay, we want to put $7 million in the budget for this year, well, what's the long-term implications of that? It's not just $7 million this year, it's so many more millions down the road and how many more millions is that and exactly what are we going to get for that? How many doctors? What's the plan? What's the state's obligation?

>> Carolyn Allen
These are kamikaze missions. There are people who are willing to stay through June and into July. I wonder how the public will feel if we shut down the government because these people are determined. This is not about the money, it's about the policy. They don't want her to have anything that she wants. They don't -- she wants Kindergarten, and I believe most of the public wants kindergarten, without vouchers attached to it. She wants the medical school. It's $7 million. We just saw the amount of money that has come in. It was predicted that it would be about $37 million. It's over $100 million, and next months the revenues. And it's going to come even higher. If they cannot give us $7 million for the beginning of this medical school, it's all political and it's all about a bunch of people, in my opinion, that belong to the flat earth society. They basically meet in the house, but we have a little subset over here in the senate, and they are prepared to stay down here and they think they can run the same budget up over and over until she signs it. This woman does not bully, and these people are on a fool's errand.

>> José Cárdenas:
Here with some details on the battle over the budget, Robbie Sherwood, legislative reporter with "The Arizona Republic." Robbie, thank you for joining us. Some pretty harsh comments from Senator Allen. Is everybody as frustrated as she seems to be?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Well, I think Democrats and moderate leaning Republicans and some who you wouldn't consider died in the wool moderates like she is are growing in frustration, and what it's based on is this feeling that even though there's been some movement in the budget, they are moving things through, that this --

>> José Cárdenas:
Movement in what sense?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Well, the package, this new-look package, compromised package is moving through appropriations committees now, yesterday in the house and today in the senate, for the most part. It appears ready to go for a full house vote, but this intertwining school vouchers and the expansion of tuition tax credits to corporations with all-day kindergarten, plus some other eligibility requirements and things that the Governor doesn't like is a sure veto, along with the lack of a medical school funding, and so they wonder why are we doing this?

>> José Cárdenas:
I want to talk about some of those specific things, but when you say it's a compromise package, you mean two different groups the Republican --

>> Robbie Sherwood:
It was not a compromise between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats have yet to be talked to about this. The house and senate leadership have set sort of an artificial ground rule for themselves that they want -- because they have majorities in both houses, they want the votes for this budget to come from their caucuses. The expression that Senator Allen was expressing was -- the frustration that she was expressing was over that ground rule, because what you've done, what the leaders have done is empowered the most conservative, fiscally conservative members of the caucus to control the process, to make demands on the budget that in order to get your 16 and 31 votes for a majority, these guys have to be brought on board. That's what the vouchers and school choice thing was about.

>> José Cárdenas:
But they are giving the Governor full-day K, which is what she wanted. What's the problem with that?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Because she is adamantly opposed to school choice measures for vouchers and expanding the tuition school tax credit beyond what it is. She believes that there are enough charters -- we have the largest charter school movement in Arizona, and we have tuition tax credits, roughly about $30 million a year already in place. She would rather see that money spent on the regular public education.

>> José Cárdenas:
But the focus for the vouchers would be low income students and only 1500. What would the Governor's objections be to that?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Simply probably the same objections that the Republicans express about the medical school. You know, $7 million is not all this is going to cost. It's going to cost much more down the line and no one is telling us how big this is going to get. I don't think that anybody is convinced that, you know, starting the ball rolling at 1500 kids would be the end of any effort to expand vouchers throughout state. I think that would simply be the proverbial camel's nose under the tent. I don't think she wants to go there.

>> José Cárdenas:
The total cost once fully implemented would be $70 million in --

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Yes, about $70 million because you're bringing in about 1500 new kids every year, and that voucher stays with them through their K through 12 education. And so at full implementation you are looking at 20,000 kids each getting $3500 a year. I'm not a mathematician but I think that's about $70 million.

>> José Cárdenas:
The Governor's objections to what's been proposed in all-day K are not simply with respect to vouchers, it's also some requirements on reporting everything else. Tell us about that.

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Some extra reporting, some mandated research before you continue to expand the program, to prove once and for all that there is a benefit for all-day kindergarten. Some eligibility requirements about requiring school survey 100\% of kids on school lunch, free and reduced school lunch programs which is how they implement it now, the poorest get it first. That would cause some hardships on schools administratively because right now they only have to do a random survey to get the federal funds to pay the program. It's beyond what the Feds are even requiring. It would actually cause some schools to fall off the program if they didn't maintain their eligibility when the goal is actually to take this statewide in 5 years. I guess she thinks that's antithetical to her goal. If this budget now goes up without this medical school, without -- with all-day kindergarten and vouchers in there the way they are, the word on the street is it's dead on arrival. So you are back at square one, and I believe that was the key frustration being expressed by the lawmakers. What are we going to be doing? Are we going to be stuck until June and if we are, who wins, the Governor who is sticking up for a program she says the public wholeheartedly supports, and I don't know that a majority support is there for vouchers, although it might be for the limited style for the low income kids. Who is going to win that stalemate?

>> José Cárdenas:
Talking about popularity contests, the latest polls for the Governor are very, very high.

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Yes, 74\% according to the latest KAET poll. So she's probably sitting in her office and thinking I have both the public and time on my side because another thing that Senator Allen hinted at was a number of $110 million. What she's talking about are new revenue numbers. The longer these guys wait, the more money comes in. The economy is doing well right now, and it was a last-month when $87 million came in, that allowed them to not go into the rainy day fund and fund some things to put some money where the Governor said she needed it. Now there is now another $110 million on top of that. The longer they wait, the more money there is, and the more leverage that the Governor has when you are talking about cutting things like general assistance for the homeless, that sort of thing.

>> José Cárdenas:
Which is only what about $4 million?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
$4 million a year for 1200 people. We're not cutting because we're broke, we're cutting because we disagree.

>> José Cárdenas:
What we have is the converse of the old cliche when people say it's not about the money, it is about the money. Here it's ideology.

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Not any more it's not about the money. You could say that we are in debt to our schools because we had this midnight reversion rollover for $100 million, but the longer we wait around, we should have the cash to take care of that in a year or so provided there is not an interruption to the economy like a terrorist attack or anything like that, heaven forbid.

>> José Cárdenas: The Governor is pro business, why would she oppose this business tax credit?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
This is not one of the things that the corporate world is clamoring for. This is something that the school choice movement is clamoring for. What the Governor favors instead of that is property tax relief for businesses because businesses are assessed at a higher ratio than homeowners. It's considered to be a disincentive for businesses to expand or locate here.

>> José Cárdenas:
That's where the business community is focused?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Right. That's what she wants to do. The corporate tuition tax credit, she thinks, is less about helping businesses than it is about helping increase population in private and parochial schools.

>> José Cárdenas:
The other big snag in talking about the issues in the intro, the medical school, only $7 million. Why is that holding up a budget?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Because they don't know -- the Republicans want more information about how big this is going to get, what kind of doctors will be created by this thing, and how much is it going to cost them down the line. They feel that information is coming to them, but this is really something that's in its infancy but needs to have this money this year in order to guarantee that it can be accredited under the umbrella of the University of Arizona, that it will get its accreditation and get started. The argument is we need the $7 million this year in order to start that. So it's very important. She's drawn a line in the sand about that. So far, they haven't given in.

>> José Cárdenas:
But there has been a proposal for $5 million?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
It came out today in the senate in their appropriations committees. It's not something that the house did, so we don't know how much support there is for it. They couldn't get votes in the Senate appropriations committee from their own Republican caucus. The Democrats refuse to talk about it because it was handed to them 3 seconds before they were supposed to vote on it, and it wasn't something that was is really vetted, discussed, didn't have any sort of testimony or information. So they just refused to deal with it. And Senator Ken Bennett whose idea this was, could not get the vote this was could not get votes from his own Republicans.

>> José Cárdenas:
What about more money for CPS workers is that an ideological issue?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
They put more in on the house side. I mean, they dislike Child Protective Services, the job that they are doing to quite a large extent, but that was something that they gave the Governor. I think they want to pigeon hole her that if she is going to kill this budget, it's going to be over two issues, all-day kindergarten and medical school -- three issues, really, and school choice, and they will attempt to paint her as being petulant and unfair when you are willing to kill an 8.2 billion dollar budget, which gives you most of what you want over a couple of pet issues.

>> José Cárdenas:
That's an exchange they will both make. What about child care subsidies?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Well, they've given her -- they didn't give her the full amount she originally requested but they have given her authority to spend some federal dollars that the Governor believes will -- it's $6 million rather than $12, but it should be enough to keep families off of a waiting list for the next year, which was the goal.

>> José Cárdenas:
Last question or at least last area, Senator Allen seemed to be predicting that it's going to come down to shutting down the government kind of situation that we've seen at the federal level. Do you think that's what we're going to see?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
I don't know that it gets that far down the road. How many Republicans are willing to just send her up a budget just to see it rejected over and over again to make a point? Or will you start to see people or coalitions form to go and work with the Democrats where there would be enough votes and pass a budget over the leader's head as they did last year. There is a lot of political ramifications to doing that, but that's also an easier way out.

>> José Cárdenas:
What's your prediction?

>> Robbie Sherwood:
Mercy, I don't want to make -- I honestly -- this is completely new territory for budgets. I've covered five in a row, and they've never been the same.

>> José Cárdenas:
Robbie Sherwood with "The Arizona Republic," thank you for joining us.

>> Robbie Sherwood:
You're welcome.

>> José Cárdenas:
Domestic violence is aggressive or controlling behavior by a present or former relationship partner. It is a purposeful, intimidating pattern of behavior that can include physical or psychological abuse or economic or physical isolation. But last Saturday, thousands of people, including Governor Napolitano, took part in an event organized to raise money and awareness of the problem. The walk to end domestic violence drew more than 4,000 people and raised nearly $300,000 for shelters and domestic violence programs. One program that will receive some funding from the event is the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence, an organization that is calling for volunteers on specific committees. Here's a look at those committees.

>>Merry Lucero:
Budget and finance prepares the annual budget for each fiscal year. Outreach works on increasing visibility, extending work into under-served communities and raising funds. The health issues committee provides guidance on health issues, state and national policies, laws and regulations and on coalition programs and activities related to the health of victims and children who have experienced domestic violence. Legal looks at the problems and barriers victims face in accessing justice and receiving fair treatment and takes steps to remedy those barriers. Legislative monitors and reviews state and national laws and regulations that have implications for domestic violence victims and survivors. Nominating and Membership recruits people and processes membership and board applications. Personnel, updates the personnel manual and addresses personnel issues as they arise. P.E.E.R.S. addresses domestic violence in the gay and lesbian community. S.H.A.R.E. is a group of survivors who discuss issues related to domestic violence. The Speakers Bureau speak to the public about their experiences. Strategic planning works on the goals and functions of the coalition. And the Women of Color Committee draws participation by outreach through various activities to under-represented populations in Arizona. You need not identify as a woman of color to participate.

>> José Cárdenas:
Here to talk more about some current domestic violence issues, Dale Wiebusch, director of systems advocacy for the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence. Dale, thank you for joining us on "Horizon."

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Thank you for having me.

>> José Cárdenas:
The figure I have is one in four women suffer from domestic violence. Where does that number come from?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
There are a number of surveys nationally and statewide that have gone to phone interviews or talking with people that access different services and so the one in four is actually within their lifetime will experience some form of domestic violence.

>> José Cárdenas:
So the need is tremendous?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Incredibly tremendous.

>> José Cárdenas:
Is that why you are recruiting volunteers?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
That is a large reason why we are recruiting volunteers. Plus at the coalition, we operate on a real community consensus model and we get input from a variety of people before we proceed on certain things, and we'd really like to hear from people out in the community, what kind of direction we should be taking in terms of our activities.

>> José Cárdenas:
Can you give us a thumbnail sketch of the history of the coalition?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Well actually, we're in our 25th year. This is our silver anniversary. We were founded in 1980, our 25th year. It was formed by concerned citizens and volunteers. First paid staff was somewhere in the late 80s. We are now at 15 staff people and we have statewide membership. We work in areas of training and education and providing what I do, for example, is public policy or systems advocacy work, so working with the legislature, court systems, police departments, et cetera, and try to really look at domestic violence from a multi-pronged approach and address it from a variety of levels.

>> José Cárdenas:
One of the new committees you are recruiting for is a men's committee. Can you tell us about that?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
We've had men call us and say we would like to become more involved, how can we do that. We've had enough people call us, and I'm the only male that works at the coalition, so I can't form my own committee by myself, and so we're trying to find a way that we can get more men working on this issue, and we've had good responses from a variety of community organizations that said they would like to be involved and have men working on how do we reach more men to end domestic violence.

>> José Cárdenas:
Does it strike you at all odd or just significant that you've been in existence for 25 years and men are at least half of this issue, and only now you have a men's committee?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
I think that as you showed the clip of the walk, the awareness of domestic violence as an issue that affects all of us, that it's not just a women's issue, that it affects women primarily as the victims, but as a society, we see it in medical costs and employment costs and how children are raised in homes like that, and so that -- where domestic violence is now, it takes a long time for issues like this to really garner a wide range of support, including from the gender that perpetrates most of the violence.

>> José Cárdenas:
How successful are you in getting volunteers for the new committees? How is that going?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
We have some committees that are very, very active and larger than others, and what we'd like to do is actually broaden our support and not only just some things that are new, like the men's committee, but also some of the other ones, I, for example, had a meeting this morning of our legal committee. We're resurrecting that. We had 8 people at that meeting. I would like to see that committee be 20, 25 people. Some of the committees are longstanding. My legislative committee consistently 25 people at it because that's a hot topic.

>> José Cárdenas:
I want to talk about legislative matters being considered right now, but before we do that, you've got -- let's talk about that, because I don't want to run out of time. I want to make sure we cover it. A million and a half dollars for domestic violence in the budget right now. Do you think that's going to stay there?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
The optimist says yes to that, because in terms of -- it's got a very finite assignment to it. $1.5 million provides 75 beds that can be opened July 1st or whenever they get the budget out. Those kind of finite figures is what the legislators really like. If you look in the grand scheme of things, that's a small amount of money. To fully fund -- we turn away on average in this state, two-thirds of the people that call for shelter, because we don't have enough beds. So this is just a drop in the bucket. But we want to get enough drops over time to fill that bucket up.

>> José Cárdenas:
We talked in our prior segment about the Governor and legislature being at loggerheads and not much happening there, but something of great significance to everybody in Arizona did pass and that's Senate Bill 1040, the spousal rape bill, signed by the Governor, tell us about that.

>> Dale Wiebusch:
During sexual assault awareness month, which is April -- this was actually legislation brought to our attention by a brave young woman a couple of years ago, so prior to last session. She had been a victim of this crime, and her offender received very minimal punishment, because in the past, spousal rape has been a class 6 felony or the judge has the discretion to reduce it to a misdemeanor. So this woman worked with her representative who contacted us. We worked it last year, it didn't get through last year.

>> José Cárdenas:
It didn't get through committee.

>> Dale Wiebusch:
It didn't get through rules committee last year. It ended up not being a repeal of the spousal rape exemption, it just inched towards it. So it was not as powerful a bill last year. This year, the senator who held it in rules last year because he called it not a good bill, Senator Blendu wasn't the sponsor of it this year.

>> José Cárdenas:
What made him change his mind?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
It was a couple of things. By the time it got to his committee, it was watered down. It was not a class 2 felony like non-spousal rape, it was going to be a class 4. It still had certain elements in it of having to have used force or threatened use of force in it and Senator Blendu wanted a cleaner version.

>> José Cárdenas:
It wasn't strong enough?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Yes.

>> José Cárdenas:
And now is it the same? Spousal, non-spousal rape are treated identically?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
It does not matter if somebody rapes their wife, their husband or a stranger, it is the same penalty.

>> José Cárdenas:
Another measure in the legislature, confidentiality of records for domestic violence and stalking victims.

>> Dale Wiebusch:
That was sponsored by Senator Wearing (phonetic). It provides the same protection to domestic violence victims and stalking victims as judges and police officers have in regards to having their records confidential. The worst time for a woman that's fleeing a domestic violence situation in terms of lethality is exactly when she needs the most protection. So she's leaving the relationship, she needs the protection, and if she moves into a new house and her records can be accessed by anyone, well, then the perpetrator can find her and perpetuate the violence. But with this bill, she now can have her records sealed. The perpetrator cannot find out where she lives. That's a great boon to victims.

>> José Cárdenas:
The walk to end domestic violence you had thousands of supporters out there. How successful in terms of your organization was the event?

>> Dale Wiebusch:
Well, one of the mission statements of the coalition, so to speak, is that we lead and that we educate, and in order to eliminate domestic violence within Arizona. And this is a great public awareness event. This garners support from all age groups and all ethnic groups, and it also is a tool for people to physically demonstrate their passion about the issue, and the movement. The monies generated go to domestic violence programs across the state. There are over 30, including ourselves. We receive a small portion of the funding. Last year there was approximately $100,000.

>> José Cárdenas:
You've got 30 seconds left. I want to make sure we talk about the cut it off program.

>> Dale Wiebusch:
It's a great new program between the Attorney General's Office, the Arizona State Board of Cosmetology and the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence, training cosmetologist to assist victims of domestic violence. People go to their hairstylists more than their doctor, so it's a great opportunity for people to have another contact point to get assistance when they are most in need.

>> José Cárdenas:
Dale Wiebusch, from Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence, thank you for joining us. To see transcripts, go to our web site at www.azpbs.org.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Home ownership rates among minorities lag behind those of non-minorities. A new study found that half the difference between white and nonwhite rates can be attributed to things like income but can be caused by home-buying myths. We'll tell you about it Thursday at 7:00 on channel 8's "Horizon" program.

>> José Cárdenas:
Thank you for joining us tonight on "Horizon." I'm José Cárdenas. Have a great evening. I hope you enjoyed the show.

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