Horizon, Host: Ted Simons

September 17, 2007


Host:

Mark Steyn


  • A conversation with conservative Canadian pundit and author Mark Steyn on the presidential race.
Guests:
  • Mark Steyn - Conservative columnist, journalist and author


View Transcript
Richard Ruelas:
tonight on "Horizon," women who volunteered for service by World War II are honored by their fellow waves. A conversation with conservative columnist and author, Mark Steyn and 12 all-star high school musicians are rehearsing for a big night in Sedona. That's next on "Horizon."

Richard Ruelas:
good evening and thanks for joining us tonight on "Horizon." I'm Richard Ruelas. Sunday night, eight will premier ken burns' new documentary "the war." tonight on "Horizon," we begin a three-part series profiling those in Arizona that served on the second world war when much of the country was mobilized for the war effort, many individuals were needed to fill positions at home while others were shipped overseas. Some women who felt a patriotic calling volunteered to be part of a new service being offered by the navy. Larry Lemmons tells us one woman's story of one woman's adventures in the waves.

Christine Mcguthrie:
I went to get my train ticket to get to new Hampshire. The guy says, I have no idea how to get there. Wait until you get to Boston. I felt, where am I going? I spent the entire time at the naval hospital there. Anytime my orders came, the officer got them cancelled. That's where I spent all my time. I thought, join the navy and see the world? Where?

If you're able to stand and let us know you served in World War II ... [ music ]

Larry Lemmons:
On a Saturday morning at the Carl t. Hayden veteran affairs navy center, navy women veterans are celebrating the wave's 65st birthday. This particular party is honoring the waves of World War II. The word waves is an acronym for women accepted for volunteer emergency services.

Carol Culbertson:
The waves were established by the women’s reserve act. Signed by president Franklin dell nor Roosevelt in 1942.

Sharon Woods:
The ladies had their training start out with in hunter college from there he they were dispersed within different areas of the united states and abroad.

Helen Coyte:
My brother, frank, in the navy was home on leave. And he accompanied me to report to hunter college. When we got to the armory, and he's carrying my suitcase, the wave at the door looked at my brother, frank and said, this has as far as you go, sailor! She took the suitcase and that was my beginning in the navy.

Jackie Cohn:
We were told we were going to have our medical checkups and we were to wear just our underclothing and our rain coats that have been issued. And of course carry our purse and wear our shoes. Anyway, all of us, as many needed to be were there. And as we were sitting there, we began to hear this ripple of laughter. And we wondered what it was. We turned around and looked. And here was this gal who comes in her rain coat. It turns out she wasn't issued her regular rain coat so she was wearing her transparent rain plastic rain coat. [ laughter ]

Jackie Cohn:
They all had real long hair and they worked sufficiently clean. You'd have head lice.

Larry Lemmons:
Jackie Cohn was explaining why she kept her hair short in the waves. She's showing us photos from her days in the second world war.

President:
No matter how long it will take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through until absolute victory.

Jackie Cohn:
And it became more and more important to me, here's a world war we're going on. What am I doing? Nothing. I did volunteer on the weekends at the uso in Chicago and boy, I could really fry a dozen eggs at one time on this big griddle for the guys that came in from fort lakes and that kind of stuff, but the more I saw and the more I heard it seemed important to me to help.

Larry Lemmons:
She was 23 when she enlisted. Like many who volunteered, Jackie was sent to boot camp.

Jackie Cohn:
I don't know how many people know this, but over two million women enlisted in the military in World War II. When I heard that statistic a few years ago, I was really shocked. I knew there were a lot of us, but I had no idea.

Jackie Cohn:
My bunkmate couldn't make a square corner on her bunk. The hospital bed corner. She -- and I couldn't sleep on the top bunk, so I did her corners and she let me sleep on the bottom bunk.

Jackie Cohn:
And this was in Washington, D.C., these were the people who all worked in the same offices.

Larry Lemmons:
A large number of waves served their country as clerical workers which is what Jackie was originally trained to do. Through a twist of fate, she ended up serving out the war in secrecy near the nation's capital.

Jackie Cohn:
Our department, our office intercepted Japanese code messages. In department stores, they used to have these pneumatic tubes where they'd put the things in and send them to the office and put them in. We had the pneumatic tubes. They'd come through with the messages that had been intercepted but I don't know by whom. From the Japanese ships. They were distributed to us, and they were in the -- interestingly enough, they were in our alphabet. And we had to put -- type them on a particular form. They called it the five-letter code. Five letters. And then once we had a pile of those ready, they'd be sent over to the officers who were working behind locked steel doors in the building. They had all been to Japanese language school and they did the translation. There were times when I was supposed to write a thrower my friends. I couldn't tell what I was doing. I felt pretty stupid.

Larry Lemmons:
Today, Jackie enjoys the company of her sisters in arms.

1949 is when there actually became enlisted women in the United States Navy. The name of the wave, of course, stayed with the navy until 1972 when they retired the actual name.

Larry Lemmons:
At a time when their country needed them, these women were eager to volunteer. They were the vanguard who paved the way for the thousands of women who would follow them over the decades into the military and who honor them today for their patriotic service. [ singing ]

Richard Ruelas:
Tomorrow night, we'll continue our series with a look at the role Arizona played in aviation during World War II.

Richard Ruelas:
Next, Mark Steyn is a conservative columnist, journalist and author. He's contributed to the national review, the Jerusalem post, the independent and the daily telegraph just to name a few. His most recent book is titled "America alone, the end of the world as we know it." the Canadian spent some of his time in Quebec and some in new Hampshire where he says has the least amount of government intrusion. He was recently in phoenix for the Goldwater institute's rose law group speaker series. That's where Larry Lemmons caught up with him.

Larry Lemmons:
To begin with why don't we talk about the Canadian perception of American politics? I know Canadians are just as diverse as Americans about how they feel about things. I wonder how could you talk about how perceptions may vary between the American government and the American people.

Mark Steyn:
Well, I think if you take out the French-Canadians, English-Canadians tend to have actually remarkably similar views to Americans on a lot of issues. If you look up to the run to the Iraq war, for example, the amount of support among English-Canadians was not dissimilar to Americans and not dissimilar to Americans, Australians and Britain's. The reason why Canada wasn't in the war with America the way Britain and Australia were is because effectively Quebec, French Canada, was strongly opposed to the war and gets to cast the veto. In other words, the anti-Americanism of Canada is in many ways driven by the Frenchification of Canada that went on since the Trudeau years.

Larry Lemmons:
Something of the cliché of the French always hating the Americans?

Mark Steyn:
It's not that. It's just that they have particularly -- I think, ridiculous view of the world. You know, the French were -- French-Canadians were opposed to entering world war I and World War II. In both cases, the British empire essentially entered those wars to help save France. And French Quebecers would rather leave the liberation of France to Anglo-Saxons than get in it themselves. That's the issue. The more French-Canadian it gets, the more anti-American it gets. I don’t want to depress but basically English-Canadians are among America's best friends on the planet nowadays.

Larry Lemmons:
How do you view American politics at the moment? Specifically the American presidential race? What are your observations?

Mark Steyn:
It's one of the cyclical things. It's going to be a change. It's going to be a democratic president. It's one of the cyclical things you can't do anything about. There are election that has are like that. Republican party gives the impression it's exhausted. And I think that's -- you know, personally I regret that, because I think the democratic candidates are light weight. I think it's sarfasical when they talk about world issues. They are opposed to the war in Iraq but they don't want to like like a big sissy like the ways like the Dukakis in the tank issue. They start to think of ways of how to invade Pakistan -- in other words, instead of addressing the war we're in at the moment, they're opposed to that but they have the hypothetical -- I mean, Hillary wants to double the size of the army to fight next war. Why not try winning this one? I think there's a credibility issue on the part of democratic candidates. It's clear on the republican side that republican-base voters are not yet happy with the choice they've got and they would welcome a none-of-the-above candidate. And whether freed Thompson is the none-of-the-above candidate remains to be seen.

Larry Lemmons:
As we were doing this the night before, freed Thompson announced on the Jay Leno show he's officially running for president. How do you think freed Thompson will fit into the whole thing?

Mark Steyn:
I think he's a broadly sane conservative. He's got a conservative temperament in part because who he is and how he's lived. Quite how philosophically conservative he is another matter. His radio addresses over the last few months they sound very good to me. I don't think they're in the Reagan league. Reagan who was dismissed as the ultimate airhead in 1983 -- Reagan thought most about these issues and fought about them in philosophical terms longer than any other presidential candidate. He thought about it for 30 years before the time he ran. I don't think freed Thompson is there yet. I like the idea of an old, stable, steadying presidential candidate. I don't want a president with good hair. John Edwards has the most beautifully angled nape I’ve ever stood behind. I remember it from the 2004 campaign. The gloss of it. I almost had to wear sunglasses. I'm not looking for good hair. I'd like a president who is over 60, who seems like an elderly gentlemen at ease with himself. I think freed Thompson -- I think freed Thompson is totally appealing. We don't yet know whether the policies match yet.

Larry Lemmons:
A lot of people have described Hillary Clinton and barrack Obama specifically as having a kind of star power. And McCain and Giuliani, of course, certainly have a great presence and mitt Romney looks pretty good as well. But freed Thompson seems to bring that into it. As you said, maybe you'd like to watch him on TV.

Mark Steyn:
I think star power is cruel -- I’m slightly skeptical about star power because I think we overvalue it a lot of the time. And let's face it, star power in politics isn't quite the same as star power in show business.

Larry Lemmons: Not yet.

Mark Steyn:
But show business has, I think, higher standards, the bar is somewhat lower for star power in politics. But I also find it interesting that when you -- when people talk about things like that, for example, john Howard who has been a four-time election winner in Australia and has been perhaps America's most important ally in the year since 9/11 is a man who no one would regard as having star power. He's a stiff, awkward, balding man who is mocked by the Australians for having zero charisma, yet, he's been incredibly impressive. And I think the lesson of that is that the real star power is with policies and with your position. If you've got that right, then the star power follows. Similarly, Steven Harper in Canada isn't anybody's idea of a charismatic figure, even by the standards of Canadian prime minister which is -- if you're talking about a guy that's low charisma by Canadian prime minister standards, that's basically in the sub basement level five of charisma. I think we exaggerate that what is clear is that there are certain people that whatever qualities they may bring to the race you know are not going to be president. As much as you'd like to entertain the idea. I used to love in 2000 going to see a speech by Alan Keyes. He used to start off with a great opening line, "my friends, we stand on the brink of the abyss." and he got cheerier from there. It was magnificent! But you knew Alan Keyes was never going to be president. And I think we know that Sam Brownback is never going to be president. We know that Ron Paul is not going to be president. We know on the democrat's side too that Joe Biden is not going to be president. But the -- there's something that sets in very early on between those who are really in the running and those who no one has quite plucked up the courage to say, look, this isn't going to happen for you.

Larry Lemmons:
And what the other candidates bring to it is the conversation that issues that perhaps the mainstream candidates might not want to go near because of politics. The Ron Paul, the mike revelles, the Dennis Kucinich. They'll bring up issues that the other politicians may not want to address.

Mark Steyn:
I think they're quite useful in that sense. I disagree with Ron Paul who is too isolationist for me. I don't really think that the idea of America as a 19th century republic aloof from the turmoil of the world is incredible these days. The idea of an America that can simply pull up the drawbridge and hold off the world's problems is ludicrous it can't even pull up the drawbridge against two relatively benign neighbors. You don't need to be told that in Arizona. It's not just that you have haft population of Mexico living here but I understand from my friends in Toronto and Calgary, 27\% of Canadians are now retiring here. The idea that Canada and Mexico can't hold America at bay could hold the rest of the planet at bay is simply incredible. The fact is having Ron Paul being anti-Iraq and anti-war on terror in those debates forces McCain and Giuliani and Romney to improve their game when they have to argue why they're in favor of it.

Larry Lemmons:
So, please, take out your crystal ball. What do you see in the next five years?

Mark Steyn:
I think in the next five years, my worry is that the combination of factors that we face in the world is worst kind of things for democratic societies to deal with. We have a huge demographic transformation that is occurring very fast. The united nations calls it the biggest population transformation in history in which cities that were homogenous Scandinavian cities 30 years ago are being turned into majority Muslim cities. The danger there is that if you have a 20\% Muslim population which France has, in five years or beyond that, you'll never be able to rely on France as an ally again. You think of the difference a few hundred dimpled chads made in Florida in the year 2000 and then imagine a 20\% voting block that's Muslim and think about the reality of France really wanting to send troops into anywhere America is likely to be wanting to send troops into anywhere America is likely to send them. The fact of the matter is this is a permanent divergence between the united states and the European side of the Atlantic alliance. I think managing that transition is actually going to be one of the biggest challenges for whoever becomes president.

Larry Lemmons:
Mark Steyn, thank you so much for talking with us on "Horizon."

Mark Steyn:
My pleasure.

Richard Ruelas:
The Sedona jazz on the rocks festival is right around the corner, September 26-30. One of the goals of festival organizers is to provide talented high school jazz musicians with an opportunity to expand that are musicianship and performance techniques. Musicians from Arizona high schools are selected as members of this band. They rehearse and perform around the state with jazz festival musicians leading up to the event. Producer merry Lucero and videography Scot Olson caught up with the youth band playing in a gig in phoenix. [ music ]

Merry Lucero:
Hey, these guys are good! That's the word even among skeptics about the Sedona jazz on the rocks youth band. They jammed this weekend during a jazz party in uptown in central phoenix. The youth band is part of the organization's music education outreach project. [music]

Teri Mahaney:
For instance this year alone, we have eight educational activities going on during the week of the festival, so when we bring in our world-class jazz musicians, we have them going into the schools and doing actual clinics. We have three different clinics going on called kids that love jazz which will reach every k-8 student in Sedona. We have an additional program in the high school. That's in addition to any free events any parent can bring their child to if they choose. Plus, of course, everything our youth band is doing.

Merry Lucero:
What the youth band is doing is preparing to share the stage with top jazz recording artists in the Sedona jazz on the arts festival. The seasoned musicians in turn benefit from sharing their knowledge.

Teri Mahaney:
We have several musicians coming this year who have dedicated their lives to mentoring other musicians, Billy Mitchell, mose Allison, Pete macadany. We have fabulous teachers. This gives them the opportunity to teach what they love to do.

Merry Lucero:
The youth band began rehearsing back in June. Drummer Conner Watson from chino high is in his second year with the band. He says a highlight is playing the band's original tunes.

Conner Watson:
They have a lot of interesting pieces with different time signatures and stuff like that. This year, I’ve been getting really good at playing at different time and just getting used to being a big band because we're a bigger band this year.

Merry Lucero:
The band is made up of 12 jazz musicians from seven different Arizona high schools. They auditioned for spots on the youth band now in its 15th year. Sedona jazz on the rocks' reasons for supporting education are many.

Teri Mahaney:
The dry side is because research proves that students who take music, appreciate music, do better than other schools of that size. The exciting thing is it's because it’s fun. It’s got heart and soul and the kids get excited about it.

Conner Watson:
The opportunity is cool. I am playing with a lot of really good, really motivated students throughout Arizona. So this is definitely a more serious band and also being in this band and we get lots of support through Sedona. I remember last year at the festival; we had this brunch in which another band was playing. But when we got into the eating area, we got a standing ovation and we just get lots of support. There's serious musicians and great fans, I guess you can call it, so I mean, it's a great experience. [ music ]

Merry Lucero:
While their love of jazz is apparent when they play, all the members of the youth band are excited about playing the Sedona jazz festival.

Conner Watson:
We'll be jamming with them on Wednesday. We'll be jamming with a lot of musicians. That'll be a really great experience, because they're from all walks of life, all great players. It'll be great this year especially because we get to play on the big stage. That'll be awesome.

Richard Ruelas:
For more information on the Sedona jazz on the rocks festival, go to www.sedonajazz.com.

Merry Lucero:
Paul Charlton, the former u.s. Attorney for Arizona joins us to talk about being fired last year by former attorney general alberto Gonzales. Plus we continue our series profiles from World War II with a look at Arizona's role in World War II military aviation. That's Tuesday at 7:00 on "Horizon."

Richard Ruelas:
That's "Horizon." thank you for joining us. Good night.

Profiles from WWII: WAVES


  • We begin a three-part series, Profiles from WWII, which will lead to the premiere of Ken Burns’ new documentary, The War. Tonight, we learn about one woman’s experience in the WAVES (Women Accepted for Voluntary Emergency Services).
Guests:
  • Mark Steyn - Conservative columnist, journalist and author


View Transcript
Richard Ruelas:
tonight on "Horizon," women who volunteered for service by World War II are honored by their fellow waves. A conversation with conservative columnist and author, Mark Steyn and 12 all-star high school musicians are rehearsing for a big night in Sedona. That's next on "Horizon."

Richard Ruelas:
good evening and thanks for joining us tonight on "Horizon." I'm Richard Ruelas. Sunday night, eight will premier ken burns' new documentary "the war." tonight on "Horizon," we begin a three-part series profiling those in Arizona that served on the second world war when much of the country was mobilized for the war effort, many individuals were needed to fill positions at home while others were shipped overseas. Some women who felt a patriotic calling volunteered to be part of a new service being offered by the navy. Larry Lemmons tells us one woman's story of one woman's adventures in the waves.

Christine Mcguthrie:
I went to get my train ticket to get to new Hampshire. The guy says, I have no idea how to get there. Wait until you get to Boston. I felt, where am I going? I spent the entire time at the naval hospital there. Anytime my orders came, the officer got them cancelled. That's where I spent all my time. I thought, join the navy and see the world? Where?

If you're able to stand and let us know you served in World War II ... [ music ]

Larry Lemmons:
On a Saturday morning at the Carl t. Hayden veteran affairs navy center, navy women veterans are celebrating the wave's 65st birthday. This particular party is honoring the waves of World War II. The word waves is an acronym for women accepted for volunteer emergency services.

Carol Culbertson:
The waves were established by the women’s reserve act. Signed by president Franklin dell nor Roosevelt in 1942.

Sharon Woods:
The ladies had their training start out with in hunter college from there he they were dispersed within different areas of the united states and abroad.

Helen Coyte:
My brother, frank, in the navy was home on leave. And he accompanied me to report to hunter college. When we got to the armory, and he's carrying my suitcase, the wave at the door looked at my brother, frank and said, this has as far as you go, sailor! She took the suitcase and that was my beginning in the navy.

Jackie Cohn:
We were told we were going to have our medical checkups and we were to wear just our underclothing and our rain coats that have been issued. And of course carry our purse and wear our shoes. Anyway, all of us, as many needed to be were there. And as we were sitting there, we began to hear this ripple of laughter. And we wondered what it was. We turned around and looked. And here was this gal who comes in her rain coat. It turns out she wasn't issued her regular rain coat so she was wearing her transparent rain plastic rain coat. [ laughter ]

Jackie Cohn:
They all had real long hair and they worked sufficiently clean. You'd have head lice.

Larry Lemmons:
Jackie Cohn was explaining why she kept her hair short in the waves. She's showing us photos from her days in the second world war.

President:
No matter how long it will take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through until absolute victory.

Jackie Cohn:
And it became more and more important to me, here's a world war we're going on. What am I doing? Nothing. I did volunteer on the weekends at the uso in Chicago and boy, I could really fry a dozen eggs at one time on this big griddle for the guys that came in from fort lakes and that kind of stuff, but the more I saw and the more I heard it seemed important to me to help.

Larry Lemmons:
She was 23 when she enlisted. Like many who volunteered, Jackie was sent to boot camp.

Jackie Cohn:
I don't know how many people know this, but over two million women enlisted in the military in World War II. When I heard that statistic a few years ago, I was really shocked. I knew there were a lot of us, but I had no idea.

Jackie Cohn:
My bunkmate couldn't make a square corner on her bunk. The hospital bed corner. She -- and I couldn't sleep on the top bunk, so I did her corners and she let me sleep on the bottom bunk.

Jackie Cohn:
And this was in Washington, D.C., these were the people who all worked in the same offices.

Larry Lemmons:
A large number of waves served their country as clerical workers which is what Jackie was originally trained to do. Through a twist of fate, she ended up serving out the war in secrecy near the nation's capital.

Jackie Cohn:
Our department, our office intercepted Japanese code messages. In department stores, they used to have these pneumatic tubes where they'd put the things in and send them to the office and put them in. We had the pneumatic tubes. They'd come through with the messages that had been intercepted but I don't know by whom. From the Japanese ships. They were distributed to us, and they were in the -- interestingly enough, they were in our alphabet. And we had to put -- type them on a particular form. They called it the five-letter code. Five letters. And then once we had a pile of those ready, they'd be sent over to the officers who were working behind locked steel doors in the building. They had all been to Japanese language school and they did the translation. There were times when I was supposed to write a thrower my friends. I couldn't tell what I was doing. I felt pretty stupid.

Larry Lemmons:
Today, Jackie enjoys the company of her sisters in arms.

1949 is when there actually became enlisted women in the United States Navy. The name of the wave, of course, stayed with the navy until 1972 when they retired the actual name.

Larry Lemmons:
At a time when their country needed them, these women were eager to volunteer. They were the vanguard who paved the way for the thousands of women who would follow them over the decades into the military and who honor them today for their patriotic service. [ singing ]

Richard Ruelas:
Tomorrow night, we'll continue our series with a look at the role Arizona played in aviation during World War II.

Richard Ruelas:
Next, Mark Steyn is a conservative columnist, journalist and author. He's contributed to the national review, the Jerusalem post, the independent and the daily telegraph just to name a few. His most recent book is titled "America alone, the end of the world as we know it." the Canadian spent some of his time in Quebec and some in new Hampshire where he says has the least amount of government intrusion. He was recently in phoenix for the Goldwater institute's rose law group speaker series. That's where Larry Lemmons caught up with him.

Larry Lemmons:
To begin with why don't we talk about the Canadian perception of American politics? I know Canadians are just as diverse as Americans about how they feel about things. I wonder how could you talk about how perceptions may vary between the American government and the American people.

Mark Steyn:
Well, I think if you take out the French-Canadians, English-Canadians tend to have actually remarkably similar views to Americans on a lot of issues. If you look up to the run to the Iraq war, for example, the amount of support among English-Canadians was not dissimilar to Americans and not dissimilar to Americans, Australians and Britain's. The reason why Canada wasn't in the war with America the way Britain and Australia were is because effectively Quebec, French Canada, was strongly opposed to the war and gets to cast the veto. In other words, the anti-Americanism of Canada is in many ways driven by the Frenchification of Canada that went on since the Trudeau years.

Larry Lemmons:
Something of the cliché of the French always hating the Americans?

Mark Steyn:
It's not that. It's just that they have particularly -- I think, ridiculous view of the world. You know, the French were -- French-Canadians were opposed to entering world war I and World War II. In both cases, the British empire essentially entered those wars to help save France. And French Quebecers would rather leave the liberation of France to Anglo-Saxons than get in it themselves. That's the issue. The more French-Canadian it gets, the more anti-American it gets. I don’t want to depress but basically English-Canadians are among America's best friends on the planet nowadays.

Larry Lemmons:
How do you view American politics at the moment? Specifically the American presidential race? What are your observations?

Mark Steyn:
It's one of the cyclical things. It's going to be a change. It's going to be a democratic president. It's one of the cyclical things you can't do anything about. There are election that has are like that. Republican party gives the impression it's exhausted. And I think that's -- you know, personally I regret that, because I think the democratic candidates are light weight. I think it's sarfasical when they talk about world issues. They are opposed to the war in Iraq but they don't want to like like a big sissy like the ways like the Dukakis in the tank issue. They start to think of ways of how to invade Pakistan -- in other words, instead of addressing the war we're in at the moment, they're opposed to that but they have the hypothetical -- I mean, Hillary wants to double the size of the army to fight next war. Why not try winning this one? I think there's a credibility issue on the part of democratic candidates. It's clear on the republican side that republican-base voters are not yet happy with the choice they've got and they would welcome a none-of-the-above candidate. And whether freed Thompson is the none-of-the-above candidate remains to be seen.

Larry Lemmons:
As we were doing this the night before, freed Thompson announced on the Jay Leno show he's officially running for president. How do you think freed Thompson will fit into the whole thing?

Mark Steyn:
I think he's a broadly sane conservative. He's got a conservative temperament in part because who he is and how he's lived. Quite how philosophically conservative he is another matter. His radio addresses over the last few months they sound very good to me. I don't think they're in the Reagan league. Reagan who was dismissed as the ultimate airhead in 1983 -- Reagan thought most about these issues and fought about them in philosophical terms longer than any other presidential candidate. He thought about it for 30 years before the time he ran. I don't think freed Thompson is there yet. I like the idea of an old, stable, steadying presidential candidate. I don't want a president with good hair. John Edwards has the most beautifully angled nape I’ve ever stood behind. I remember it from the 2004 campaign. The gloss of it. I almost had to wear sunglasses. I'm not looking for good hair. I'd like a president who is over 60, who seems like an elderly gentlemen at ease with himself. I think freed Thompson -- I think freed Thompson is totally appealing. We don't yet know whether the policies match yet.

Larry Lemmons:
A lot of people have described Hillary Clinton and barrack Obama specifically as having a kind of star power. And McCain and Giuliani, of course, certainly have a great presence and mitt Romney looks pretty good as well. But freed Thompson seems to bring that into it. As you said, maybe you'd like to watch him on TV.

Mark Steyn:
I think star power is cruel -- I’m slightly skeptical about star power because I think we overvalue it a lot of the time. And let's face it, star power in politics isn't quite the same as star power in show business.

Larry Lemmons: Not yet.

Mark Steyn:
But show business has, I think, higher standards, the bar is somewhat lower for star power in politics. But I also find it interesting that when you -- when people talk about things like that, for example, john Howard who has been a four-time election winner in Australia and has been perhaps America's most important ally in the year since 9/11 is a man who no one would regard as having star power. He's a stiff, awkward, balding man who is mocked by the Australians for having zero charisma, yet, he's been incredibly impressive. And I think the lesson of that is that the real star power is with policies and with your position. If you've got that right, then the star power follows. Similarly, Steven Harper in Canada isn't anybody's idea of a charismatic figure, even by the standards of Canadian prime minister which is -- if you're talking about a guy that's low charisma by Canadian prime minister standards, that's basically in the sub basement level five of charisma. I think we exaggerate that what is clear is that there are certain people that whatever qualities they may bring to the race you know are not going to be president. As much as you'd like to entertain the idea. I used to love in 2000 going to see a speech by Alan Keyes. He used to start off with a great opening line, "my friends, we stand on the brink of the abyss." and he got cheerier from there. It was magnificent! But you knew Alan Keyes was never going to be president. And I think we know that Sam Brownback is never going to be president. We know that Ron Paul is not going to be president. We know on the democrat's side too that Joe Biden is not going to be president. But the -- there's something that sets in very early on between those who are really in the running and those who no one has quite plucked up the courage to say, look, this isn't going to happen for you.

Larry Lemmons:
And what the other candidates bring to it is the conversation that issues that perhaps the mainstream candidates might not want to go near because of politics. The Ron Paul, the mike revelles, the Dennis Kucinich. They'll bring up issues that the other politicians may not want to address.

Mark Steyn:
I think they're quite useful in that sense. I disagree with Ron Paul who is too isolationist for me. I don't really think that the idea of America as a 19th century republic aloof from the turmoil of the world is incredible these days. The idea of an America that can simply pull up the drawbridge and hold off the world's problems is ludicrous it can't even pull up the drawbridge against two relatively benign neighbors. You don't need to be told that in Arizona. It's not just that you have haft population of Mexico living here but I understand from my friends in Toronto and Calgary, 27\% of Canadians are now retiring here. The idea that Canada and Mexico can't hold America at bay could hold the rest of the planet at bay is simply incredible. The fact is having Ron Paul being anti-Iraq and anti-war on terror in those debates forces McCain and Giuliani and Romney to improve their game when they have to argue why they're in favor of it.

Larry Lemmons:
So, please, take out your crystal ball. What do you see in the next five years?

Mark Steyn:
I think in the next five years, my worry is that the combination of factors that we face in the world is worst kind of things for democratic societies to deal with. We have a huge demographic transformation that is occurring very fast. The united nations calls it the biggest population transformation in history in which cities that were homogenous Scandinavian cities 30 years ago are being turned into majority Muslim cities. The danger there is that if you have a 20\% Muslim population which France has, in five years or beyond that, you'll never be able to rely on France as an ally again. You think of the difference a few hundred dimpled chads made in Florida in the year 2000 and then imagine a 20\% voting block that's Muslim and think about the reality of France really wanting to send troops into anywhere America is likely to be wanting to send troops into anywhere America is likely to send them. The fact of the matter is this is a permanent divergence between the united states and the European side of the Atlantic alliance. I think managing that transition is actually going to be one of the biggest challenges for whoever becomes president.

Larry Lemmons:
Mark Steyn, thank you so much for talking with us on "Horizon."

Mark Steyn:
My pleasure.

Richard Ruelas:
The Sedona jazz on the rocks festival is right around the corner, September 26-30. One of the goals of festival organizers is to provide talented high school jazz musicians with an opportunity to expand that are musicianship and performance techniques. Musicians from Arizona high schools are selected as members of this band. They rehearse and perform around the state with jazz festival musicians leading up to the event. Producer merry Lucero and videography Scot Olson caught up with the youth band playing in a gig in phoenix. [ music ]

Merry Lucero:
Hey, these guys are good! That's the word even among skeptics about the Sedona jazz on the rocks youth band. They jammed this weekend during a jazz party in uptown in central phoenix. The youth band is part of the organization's music education outreach project. [music]

Teri Mahaney:
For instance this year alone, we have eight educational activities going on during the week of the festival, so when we bring in our world-class jazz musicians, we have them going into the schools and doing actual clinics. We have three different clinics going on called kids that love jazz which will reach every k-8 student in Sedona. We have an additional program in the high school. That's in addition to any free events any parent can bring their child to if they choose. Plus, of course, everything our youth band is doing.

Merry Lucero:
What the youth band is doing is preparing to share the stage with top jazz recording artists in the Sedona jazz on the arts festival. The seasoned musicians in turn benefit from sharing their knowledge.

Teri Mahaney:
We have several musicians coming this year who have dedicated their lives to mentoring other musicians, Billy Mitchell, mose Allison, Pete macadany. We have fabulous teachers. This gives them the opportunity to teach what they love to do.

Merry Lucero:
The youth band began rehearsing back in June. Drummer Conner Watson from chino high is in his second year with the band. He says a highlight is playing the band's original tunes.

Conner Watson:
They have a lot of interesting pieces with different time signatures and stuff like that. This year, I’ve been getting really good at playing at different time and just getting used to being a big band because we're a bigger band this year.

Merry Lucero:
The band is made up of 12 jazz musicians from seven different Arizona high schools. They auditioned for spots on the youth band now in its 15th year. Sedona jazz on the rocks' reasons for supporting education are many.

Teri Mahaney:
The dry side is because research proves that students who take music, appreciate music, do better than other schools of that size. The exciting thing is it's because it’s fun. It’s got heart and soul and the kids get excited about it.

Conner Watson:
The opportunity is cool. I am playing with a lot of really good, really motivated students throughout Arizona. So this is definitely a more serious band and also being in this band and we get lots of support through Sedona. I remember last year at the festival; we had this brunch in which another band was playing. But when we got into the eating area, we got a standing ovation and we just get lots of support. There's serious musicians and great fans, I guess you can call it, so I mean, it's a great experience. [ music ]

Merry Lucero:
While their love of jazz is apparent when they play, all the members of the youth band are excited about playing the Sedona jazz festival.

Conner Watson:
We'll be jamming with them on Wednesday. We'll be jamming with a lot of musicians. That'll be a really great experience, because they're from all walks of life, all great players. It'll be great this year especially because we get to play on the big stage. That'll be awesome.

Richard Ruelas:
For more information on the Sedona jazz on the rocks festival, go to www.sedonajazz.com.

Merry Lucero:
Paul Charlton, the former u.s. Attorney for Arizona joins us to talk about being fired last year by former attorney general alberto Gonzales. Plus we continue our series profiles from World War II with a look at Arizona's role in World War II military aviation. That's Tuesday at 7:00 on "Horizon."

Richard Ruelas:
That's "Horizon." thank you for joining us. Good night.

The Sedona Jazz on the Rocks Youth Band


  • The Sedona Jazz on the Rocks (SJOR) festival is right around the corner (Sept. 26 -30). One of the goals of the festival is to provide an environment for talented high school jazz musicians to expand their musicianship and performance techniques. Twelve young musicians from seven Arizona high schools have been selected as members of this band. They rehearse and perform around the state with SJOR musicians leading up to the festival. We catch up with the Youth Band while they’re in town for a gig.
Guests:
  • Mark Steyn - Conservative columnist, journalist and author


View Transcript
Richard Ruelas:
tonight on "Horizon," women who volunteered for service by World War II are honored by their fellow waves. A conversation with conservative columnist and author, Mark Steyn and 12 all-star high school musicians are rehearsing for a big night in Sedona. That's next on "Horizon."

Richard Ruelas:
good evening and thanks for joining us tonight on "Horizon." I'm Richard Ruelas. Sunday night, eight will premier ken burns' new documentary "the war." tonight on "Horizon," we begin a three-part series profiling those in Arizona that served on the second world war when much of the country was mobilized for the war effort, many individuals were needed to fill positions at home while others were shipped overseas. Some women who felt a patriotic calling volunteered to be part of a new service being offered by the navy. Larry Lemmons tells us one woman's story of one woman's adventures in the waves.

Christine Mcguthrie:
I went to get my train ticket to get to new Hampshire. The guy says, I have no idea how to get there. Wait until you get to Boston. I felt, where am I going? I spent the entire time at the naval hospital there. Anytime my orders came, the officer got them cancelled. That's where I spent all my time. I thought, join the navy and see the world? Where?

If you're able to stand and let us know you served in World War II ... [ music ]

Larry Lemmons:
On a Saturday morning at the Carl t. Hayden veteran affairs navy center, navy women veterans are celebrating the wave's 65st birthday. This particular party is honoring the waves of World War II. The word waves is an acronym for women accepted for volunteer emergency services.

Carol Culbertson:
The waves were established by the women’s reserve act. Signed by president Franklin dell nor Roosevelt in 1942.

Sharon Woods:
The ladies had their training start out with in hunter college from there he they were dispersed within different areas of the united states and abroad.

Helen Coyte:
My brother, frank, in the navy was home on leave. And he accompanied me to report to hunter college. When we got to the armory, and he's carrying my suitcase, the wave at the door looked at my brother, frank and said, this has as far as you go, sailor! She took the suitcase and that was my beginning in the navy.

Jackie Cohn:
We were told we were going to have our medical checkups and we were to wear just our underclothing and our rain coats that have been issued. And of course carry our purse and wear our shoes. Anyway, all of us, as many needed to be were there. And as we were sitting there, we began to hear this ripple of laughter. And we wondered what it was. We turned around and looked. And here was this gal who comes in her rain coat. It turns out she wasn't issued her regular rain coat so she was wearing her transparent rain plastic rain coat. [ laughter ]

Jackie Cohn:
They all had real long hair and they worked sufficiently clean. You'd have head lice.

Larry Lemmons:
Jackie Cohn was explaining why she kept her hair short in the waves. She's showing us photos from her days in the second world war.

President:
No matter how long it will take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through until absolute victory.

Jackie Cohn:
And it became more and more important to me, here's a world war we're going on. What am I doing? Nothing. I did volunteer on the weekends at the uso in Chicago and boy, I could really fry a dozen eggs at one time on this big griddle for the guys that came in from fort lakes and that kind of stuff, but the more I saw and the more I heard it seemed important to me to help.

Larry Lemmons:
She was 23 when she enlisted. Like many who volunteered, Jackie was sent to boot camp.

Jackie Cohn:
I don't know how many people know this, but over two million women enlisted in the military in World War II. When I heard that statistic a few years ago, I was really shocked. I knew there were a lot of us, but I had no idea.

Jackie Cohn:
My bunkmate couldn't make a square corner on her bunk. The hospital bed corner. She -- and I couldn't sleep on the top bunk, so I did her corners and she let me sleep on the bottom bunk.

Jackie Cohn:
And this was in Washington, D.C., these were the people who all worked in the same offices.

Larry Lemmons:
A large number of waves served their country as clerical workers which is what Jackie was originally trained to do. Through a twist of fate, she ended up serving out the war in secrecy near the nation's capital.

Jackie Cohn:
Our department, our office intercepted Japanese code messages. In department stores, they used to have these pneumatic tubes where they'd put the things in and send them to the office and put them in. We had the pneumatic tubes. They'd come through with the messages that had been intercepted but I don't know by whom. From the Japanese ships. They were distributed to us, and they were in the -- interestingly enough, they were in our alphabet. And we had to put -- type them on a particular form. They called it the five-letter code. Five letters. And then once we had a pile of those ready, they'd be sent over to the officers who were working behind locked steel doors in the building. They had all been to Japanese language school and they did the translation. There were times when I was supposed to write a thrower my friends. I couldn't tell what I was doing. I felt pretty stupid.

Larry Lemmons:
Today, Jackie enjoys the company of her sisters in arms.

1949 is when there actually became enlisted women in the United States Navy. The name of the wave, of course, stayed with the navy until 1972 when they retired the actual name.

Larry Lemmons:
At a time when their country needed them, these women were eager to volunteer. They were the vanguard who paved the way for the thousands of women who would follow them over the decades into the military and who honor them today for their patriotic service. [ singing ]

Richard Ruelas:
Tomorrow night, we'll continue our series with a look at the role Arizona played in aviation during World War II.

Richard Ruelas:
Next, Mark Steyn is a conservative columnist, journalist and author. He's contributed to the national review, the Jerusalem post, the independent and the daily telegraph just to name a few. His most recent book is titled "America alone, the end of the world as we know it." the Canadian spent some of his time in Quebec and some in new Hampshire where he says has the least amount of government intrusion. He was recently in phoenix for the Goldwater institute's rose law group speaker series. That's where Larry Lemmons caught up with him.

Larry Lemmons:
To begin with why don't we talk about the Canadian perception of American politics? I know Canadians are just as diverse as Americans about how they feel about things. I wonder how could you talk about how perceptions may vary between the American government and the American people.

Mark Steyn:
Well, I think if you take out the French-Canadians, English-Canadians tend to have actually remarkably similar views to Americans on a lot of issues. If you look up to the run to the Iraq war, for example, the amount of support among English-Canadians was not dissimilar to Americans and not dissimilar to Americans, Australians and Britain's. The reason why Canada wasn't in the war with America the way Britain and Australia were is because effectively Quebec, French Canada, was strongly opposed to the war and gets to cast the veto. In other words, the anti-Americanism of Canada is in many ways driven by the Frenchification of Canada that went on since the Trudeau years.

Larry Lemmons:
Something of the cliché of the French always hating the Americans?

Mark Steyn:
It's not that. It's just that they have particularly -- I think, ridiculous view of the world. You know, the French were -- French-Canadians were opposed to entering world war I and World War II. In both cases, the British empire essentially entered those wars to help save France. And French Quebecers would rather leave the liberation of France to Anglo-Saxons than get in it themselves. That's the issue. The more French-Canadian it gets, the more anti-American it gets. I don’t want to depress but basically English-Canadians are among America's best friends on the planet nowadays.

Larry Lemmons:
How do you view American politics at the moment? Specifically the American presidential race? What are your observations?

Mark Steyn:
It's one of the cyclical things. It's going to be a change. It's going to be a democratic president. It's one of the cyclical things you can't do anything about. There are election that has are like that. Republican party gives the impression it's exhausted. And I think that's -- you know, personally I regret that, because I think the democratic candidates are light weight. I think it's sarfasical when they talk about world issues. They are opposed to the war in Iraq but they don't want to like like a big sissy like the ways like the Dukakis in the tank issue. They start to think of ways of how to invade Pakistan -- in other words, instead of addressing the war we're in at the moment, they're opposed to that but they have the hypothetical -- I mean, Hillary wants to double the size of the army to fight next war. Why not try winning this one? I think there's a credibility issue on the part of democratic candidates. It's clear on the republican side that republican-base voters are not yet happy with the choice they've got and they would welcome a none-of-the-above candidate. And whether freed Thompson is the none-of-the-above candidate remains to be seen.

Larry Lemmons:
As we were doing this the night before, freed Thompson announced on the Jay Leno show he's officially running for president. How do you think freed Thompson will fit into the whole thing?

Mark Steyn:
I think he's a broadly sane conservative. He's got a conservative temperament in part because who he is and how he's lived. Quite how philosophically conservative he is another matter. His radio addresses over the last few months they sound very good to me. I don't think they're in the Reagan league. Reagan who was dismissed as the ultimate airhead in 1983 -- Reagan thought most about these issues and fought about them in philosophical terms longer than any other presidential candidate. He thought about it for 30 years before the time he ran. I don't think freed Thompson is there yet. I like the idea of an old, stable, steadying presidential candidate. I don't want a president with good hair. John Edwards has the most beautifully angled nape I’ve ever stood behind. I remember it from the 2004 campaign. The gloss of it. I almost had to wear sunglasses. I'm not looking for good hair. I'd like a president who is over 60, who seems like an elderly gentlemen at ease with himself. I think freed Thompson -- I think freed Thompson is totally appealing. We don't yet know whether the policies match yet.

Larry Lemmons:
A lot of people have described Hillary Clinton and barrack Obama specifically as having a kind of star power. And McCain and Giuliani, of course, certainly have a great presence and mitt Romney looks pretty good as well. But freed Thompson seems to bring that into it. As you said, maybe you'd like to watch him on TV.

Mark Steyn:
I think star power is cruel -- I’m slightly skeptical about star power because I think we overvalue it a lot of the time. And let's face it, star power in politics isn't quite the same as star power in show business.

Larry Lemmons: Not yet.

Mark Steyn:
But show business has, I think, higher standards, the bar is somewhat lower for star power in politics. But I also find it interesting that when you -- when people talk about things like that, for example, john Howard who has been a four-time election winner in Australia and has been perhaps America's most important ally in the year since 9/11 is a man who no one would regard as having star power. He's a stiff, awkward, balding man who is mocked by the Australians for having zero charisma, yet, he's been incredibly impressive. And I think the lesson of that is that the real star power is with policies and with your position. If you've got that right, then the star power follows. Similarly, Steven Harper in Canada isn't anybody's idea of a charismatic figure, even by the standards of Canadian prime minister which is -- if you're talking about a guy that's low charisma by Canadian prime minister standards, that's basically in the sub basement level five of charisma. I think we exaggerate that what is clear is that there are certain people that whatever qualities they may bring to the race you know are not going to be president. As much as you'd like to entertain the idea. I used to love in 2000 going to see a speech by Alan Keyes. He used to start off with a great opening line, "my friends, we stand on the brink of the abyss." and he got cheerier from there. It was magnificent! But you knew Alan Keyes was never going to be president. And I think we know that Sam Brownback is never going to be president. We know that Ron Paul is not going to be president. We know on the democrat's side too that Joe Biden is not going to be president. But the -- there's something that sets in very early on between those who are really in the running and those who no one has quite plucked up the courage to say, look, this isn't going to happen for you.

Larry Lemmons:
And what the other candidates bring to it is the conversation that issues that perhaps the mainstream candidates might not want to go near because of politics. The Ron Paul, the mike revelles, the Dennis Kucinich. They'll bring up issues that the other politicians may not want to address.

Mark Steyn:
I think they're quite useful in that sense. I disagree with Ron Paul who is too isolationist for me. I don't really think that the idea of America as a 19th century republic aloof from the turmoil of the world is incredible these days. The idea of an America that can simply pull up the drawbridge and hold off the world's problems is ludicrous it can't even pull up the drawbridge against two relatively benign neighbors. You don't need to be told that in Arizona. It's not just that you have haft population of Mexico living here but I understand from my friends in Toronto and Calgary, 27\% of Canadians are now retiring here. The idea that Canada and Mexico can't hold America at bay could hold the rest of the planet at bay is simply incredible. The fact is having Ron Paul being anti-Iraq and anti-war on terror in those debates forces McCain and Giuliani and Romney to improve their game when they have to argue why they're in favor of it.

Larry Lemmons:
So, please, take out your crystal ball. What do you see in the next five years?

Mark Steyn:
I think in the next five years, my worry is that the combination of factors that we face in the world is worst kind of things for democratic societies to deal with. We have a huge demographic transformation that is occurring very fast. The united nations calls it the biggest population transformation in history in which cities that were homogenous Scandinavian cities 30 years ago are being turned into majority Muslim cities. The danger there is that if you have a 20\% Muslim population which France has, in five years or beyond that, you'll never be able to rely on France as an ally again. You think of the difference a few hundred dimpled chads made in Florida in the year 2000 and then imagine a 20\% voting block that's Muslim and think about the reality of France really wanting to send troops into anywhere America is likely to be wanting to send troops into anywhere America is likely to send them. The fact of the matter is this is a permanent divergence between the united states and the European side of the Atlantic alliance. I think managing that transition is actually going to be one of the biggest challenges for whoever becomes president.

Larry Lemmons:
Mark Steyn, thank you so much for talking with us on "Horizon."

Mark Steyn:
My pleasure.

Richard Ruelas:
The Sedona jazz on the rocks festival is right around the corner, September 26-30. One of the goals of festival organizers is to provide talented high school jazz musicians with an opportunity to expand that are musicianship and performance techniques. Musicians from Arizona high schools are selected as members of this band. They rehearse and perform around the state with jazz festival musicians leading up to the event. Producer merry Lucero and videography Scot Olson caught up with the youth band playing in a gig in phoenix. [ music ]

Merry Lucero:
Hey, these guys are good! That's the word even among skeptics about the Sedona jazz on the rocks youth band. They jammed this weekend during a jazz party in uptown in central phoenix. The youth band is part of the organization's music education outreach project. [music]

Teri Mahaney:
For instance this year alone, we have eight educational activities going on during the week of the festival, so when we bring in our world-class jazz musicians, we have them going into the schools and doing actual clinics. We have three different clinics going on called kids that love jazz which will reach every k-8 student in Sedona. We have an additional program in the high school. That's in addition to any free events any parent can bring their child to if they choose. Plus, of course, everything our youth band is doing.

Merry Lucero:
What the youth band is doing is preparing to share the stage with top jazz recording artists in the Sedona jazz on the arts festival. The seasoned musicians in turn benefit from sharing their knowledge.

Teri Mahaney:
We have several musicians coming this year who have dedicated their lives to mentoring other musicians, Billy Mitchell, mose Allison, Pete macadany. We have fabulous teachers. This gives them the opportunity to teach what they love to do.

Merry Lucero:
The youth band began rehearsing back in June. Drummer Conner Watson from chino high is in his second year with the band. He says a highlight is playing the band's original tunes.

Conner Watson:
They have a lot of interesting pieces with different time signatures and stuff like that. This year, I’ve been getting really good at playing at different time and just getting used to being a big band because we're a bigger band this year.

Merry Lucero:
The band is made up of 12 jazz musicians from seven different Arizona high schools. They auditioned for spots on the youth band now in its 15th year. Sedona jazz on the rocks' reasons for supporting education are many.

Teri Mahaney:
The dry side is because research proves that students who take music, appreciate music, do better than other schools of that size. The exciting thing is it's because it’s fun. It’s got heart and soul and the kids get excited about it.

Conner Watson:
The opportunity is cool. I am playing with a lot of really good, really motivated students throughout Arizona. So this is definitely a more serious band and also being in this band and we get lots of support through Sedona. I remember last year at the festival; we had this brunch in which another band was playing. But when we got into the eating area, we got a standing ovation and we just get lots of support. There's serious musicians and great fans, I guess you can call it, so I mean, it's a great experience. [ music ]

Merry Lucero:
While their love of jazz is apparent when they play, all the members of the youth band are excited about playing the Sedona jazz festival.

Conner Watson:
We'll be jamming with them on Wednesday. We'll be jamming with a lot of musicians. That'll be a really great experience, because they're from all walks of life, all great players. It'll be great this year especially because we get to play on the big stage. That'll be awesome.

Richard Ruelas:
For more information on the Sedona jazz on the rocks festival, go to www.sedonajazz.com.

Merry Lucero:
Paul Charlton, the former u.s. Attorney for Arizona joins us to talk about being fired last year by former attorney general alberto Gonzales. Plus we continue our series profiles from World War II with a look at Arizona's role in World War II military aviation. That's Tuesday at 7:00 on "Horizon."

Richard Ruelas:
That's "Horizon." thank you for joining us. Good night.

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