Horizon, Host: Ted Simons

July 16, 2007


Host: Richard Ruelas

One on One


  • Our regular Monday feature focuses on employer sanctions and presidential politics with Tequida & Guttierez’s John Loredo and Brett Mecum of the Arizona Republican Party.
Guests:
  • Terry Goddard - Arizona Attorney General
  • John Loredo - Political consultant, Tequida and Gutierrez


View Transcript
>>Richard Ruelas:
Tonight on "Horizon", a conversation with the Arizona Attorney General about Employer Sanctions, scams, and life care planning. And two political types go head to head on issues that affect Arizona in our regular Monday feature:"One-On-One". Next, on "Horizon".

>>Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by contributions from the "Friends of Eight", members of your Arizona PBS Station. Thank you.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Good evening, and thanks for joining us tonight on "Horizon" I'm Richard Ruelas. At the beginning of next year, a tough Employer Sanctions law will go into effect in Arizona. Any company that knowingly hires undocumented workers could have its license suspended after the first offense, and will have it revoked after the second offense. Joining me to talk about that and a few other scams to watch out for, as well as the importance of life-care planning- we're gonna cover a lot- Arizona's Attorney General, Terry Goddard. Good evening. Thanks for joining us.

>>Terry Goddard:
Good evening. It's a lot.

>>Richard Ruelas:
We will start quickly with Employer Sanctions. A lawsuit was filed Friday, I'm sure you spent the weekend perusing it.

>>Terry Goddard:
I spent the weekend reading it, but I would like to emphasize there are a lot of questions that Law Enforcement have, that we have been discussing about the law that was passed.

>>Richard Ruelas:
One suit particularly, what are your thoughts on the merits that says it is far reaching and unconstitutional because the Federal Government occupied the field of immigration as well as violating due process rights of the businesses?

>>Terry Goddard:
Yes, it basically accuses the new law of violating every other constitutional amendment, and it is against the Commerce Clause, it's against the, as you mentioned, due process and it's preempted by federal statute. These are claims we've heard before. I know they came up during the debate at the legislature. We will defend it. The Arizona Attorney General's Office we will go to court to say that these are not valid charges. There are concerns about the bill, but I think most of them, if not all, we can work out either among Law Enforcement getting together and deciding on procedures that are constitutional, or in a special session, which the Governor has said they probably will call in October to answer some of the unresolved questions. And, frankly, we have been thinking about this, and come up with a number of pretty serious questions that ought to be addressed by the Legislature.

>>Richard Ruelas:
I guess what -- when the law goes into effect in January, I guess, assuming it stays in its current form, what would someone have to do to complain or raise a case?

>>Terry Goddard:
I started to --

>>Richard Ruelas:
Sure.

>>Terry Goddard:
-- you've made this point twice. It goes into effect January 1st, and the day that the Governor signed the bill, my office started getting calls from people who said, "I'd like to make a complaint." I want to make it clear here, and I have been trying everywhere, to say until January 1st, there is no Employer Sanctions Bill in force in Arizona, so we can't even receive the complaints until then. If somebody has a case, they can be working on it, but they can't make the actual allegation until the law becomes effective.

>>Richard Ruelas:
I guess even the sheer number of these preliminary calls let you know come January 1st, you might get stormed.

>>Terry Goddard:
I'm expecting a thousand-plus calls a month, and that may be conservative. You're right, we have gotten a lot already just by people saying, "I think I know about an instance." You asked a question which, frankly, is something we have to work out, and that is: what is a valid complaint? The bill does not articulate what is a valid complaint under this new statute. Can it be anonymous? Can it -- does it have to have the specific name of the individual complained about? I think so because the bill says you have to check and see if the person is in this country legally. So without a name, I don't know how you do that. It has -- the complaint has to be non-frivolous because it also has a sanction for frivolous complaints that you can be guilty of a misdemeanor if you abuse the system.

>>Richard Ruelas:
It also sets out, it seems in my reading of it, which, of course, is very primary, a method under which you must investigate. Do you see different methods under which you investigate? It says you have to check a Federal database or check with the Feds to see if a name matches up. Do you think you have the license to go further?

>>Terry Goddard:
You are referring to what would be a defense for the employers. And the bill says specifically if you have gone to the Social Security Pilot Project Database and checked to see if this name shows that somebody is in this country illegally, that is "Prima Facie" you have done what you need to do to avoid -- if it turns out that that person is not here legally, but you have checked the database and have a receipt saying that you checked it, it would be impossible under the statute to prove that you knowingly hired somebody in this country illegally. There are probably others, and this is another place where I think some hard questions have to be asked. When you fill out an I-9 employment form, and have two, as it requires, at least two forms of identification and a Social Security number, does that mean you have satisfied the inquiry into whether or not this person is in the country legally? I don't know the answer to that. It is something we are going to be working on. It may have to be tested in court.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Yeah, the -- when you talk about the number of calls you are getting, and the enforcement thing, are you properly staffed to handle all these calls? Do you think you have enough?

>>Terry Goddard:
Well, I have questions about that. The bill is interesting in that it gives a divided jurisdiction, and says that both the County Attorneys and Attorney General will investigate. Presumably, it also means the Sheriff and police department can investigate, although it doesn't say anything about that. It also says that the actual prosecution of these cases, the case that could result in the suspension and termination of a license of a business, can only be done by County Attorneys. So, the Attorney General's office will not be part of that process, according to the bill. But we will be part of keeping a database to make sure that we know who has committed the first offense, so that on a second offense, their licenses will be terminated and also provides us some money to do that, but not a great deal.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Briefly, before we leave this topic, if you were a business owner in Arizona, would you be worried about this law?

>>Terry Goddard:
Apparently, a lot of business owners are, because my office has been contacted, and I know the Governor's Office has been besieged by businesses who are concerned about the economic impact. The bill, interestingly, has a fairly high level of proof to show that somebody knowledgeably or intentionally hired somebody, knowing that they were unauthorized aliens, that's the term that the bill uses, is a high level of proof. So, would I be worried? Yes, largely by the uncertainty. There are lot of questions that have to be answered between now and January 1st.

>>Richard Ruelas:
OK, we'll move on to what always seems a recurring theme, scams.

>>Terry Goddard:
Scams.

>>Richard Ruelas:
There seems to be no end to e-mail scams, and you were telling us before we went on the air about a door-to-door scam involving even the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Telecommunications.

>>Terry Goddard:
This has been a summer of exceptional scam activity in my experience. There has been an awful lot of phone scams, door-to-door scams. And the one you referred to was purported students claiming to be part of the Walter Cronkite School, raising money for a summer trip to London. It sounded incredibly convincing until people started asking them questions about what professor did you have or what courses are you taking and these students -- purported students didn't have a clue. It was a scam. The Walter Cronkite School does not raise money that way. It was an effort to force people into buying magazines. Another one we are very concerned about was a so-called "Medical Card" and people were calling seniors, targeting seniors, saying we have a new federally required medical card and be sure and give us -- in order to qualify so we can send it to you, I need your Social Security number and if -- and they were very, very aggressive about trying to get this information, supposedly for the senior's protection. It was everything but. It was a pure and simple identity theft effort to try to extort from folks their personal financial information, and we find that in so many different faces. There, over e-mail, sometimes through direct telephoning, although there is less of that, and through direct mail. We have something called "Seniors Fight Back", where our office took on the responsibility of taking all of the junk mail that 300 different seniors who volunteered for the privilege kept for the month of April, and we are sorting through it now. And it is extraordinary the number of mortgage supposed deals with very high questions, you know, making credible claims to people as to what they can provide on a mortgage refinance or new mortgage. There is a lot of scams involving the Reverse Mortgage, which many seniors use or can benefit from. And we are very concerned about all of this financial fraud.

>>Richard Ruelas:
And to that end, you are talking about mail and we will briefly talk, you have a "Shred-A-Thon" tomorrow night.

>>Terry Goddard:
We have, and because so much of the mail has personal identification in it, we encourage people to get rid of that. Don't let it accumulate in your house, don't throw it away.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Tomorrow night?

>>Terry Goddard:
Tomorrow, 17th of July, in the morning at 6:00 AM to 2:00 PM. We have a "Shred-A-Thon". It's a free service, it's at Assured Security Documentation Destruction at 215 West Lodge Drive in Tempe.

>>Richard Ruelas:
and a lot of the information available on the website--

>>Terry Goddard:
It's on our website--

>>Richard Ruelas:
And also on the website is the life-care planning for seniors.

>>Terry Goddard:
Let me just say this -- south of Guadalupe, and just east of Kyrene. If you are coming between 6:00 and 2:00 to shred documents, any amount of documents are appropriate. It is free, and it's a good way to get rid of financial information.

>>Richard Ruelas:
A couple of minutes left.

>>Terry Goddard:
To life-care planning. Yes. This is really important and the thing I want to emphasize is it is not just for seniors. Many people feel that end of life healthcare planning documents, such as we provide at the Attorney General's Office, are just for seniors. But the Terri Schiavo case and others show that everybody needs to be concerned about what would happen to you in the case of accident, or like in the case of Terri Schiavo a sudden stroke which would prevent you from taking care of your important healthcare needs. These documents, which are available free of charge over the Internet or we can mail it to you if you call the Attorney General's Office, includes a healthcare power of attorney, a mental healthcare power of attorney, a living will, these are the forms that would give you the protection. Letter to an agent, and a "Do Not Resuscitate" form.

>>Richard Ruelas:
It's this bright orange form.

>>Terry Goddard:
And this is the one form you cannot download over the Internet, because it has to be bright orange to be valid in the files.

>>Richard Ruelas:
And these are available at the Attorney General's Office main office, but also you mentioned the satellite office.

>>Terry Goddard:
We have 32 satellite offices. You can find the address by going to the Internet. There is one at ASU, at the Law School, but there are many other places that you can get this information.

>>Richard Ruelas:
A lot of great information there. And I'm sure we will have you back as we try to figure out the Employer Sanctions Law.

>>Terry Goddard:
Thank you. That's going to be a conundrum and it's gonna take another Legislative Session to iron out the wrinkles.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Attorney General Goddard, thanks for joining us.

>>Terry Goddard:
Thank you.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Every Monday evening, we feature two political experts going "One-On-O ne" on issues that affect the State. Tonight, we examine the continuing fallout from the new Employer Sanctions Law, and the struggles of presidential candidate John McCain. John Loredo, a political consultant from Tequida and Gutierrez, will go one on one with Brett Mecum, the Communications Director of the Arizona Republican Party.

>>John Loredo:
Good evening, Brett.

>>Brett Mecum:
How is it going, John? We're here again.

>>John Loredo:
Here we are. This week, big issue, Employer Sanctions. There's a new business-led organization that has formed in order to try to defeat Employer Sanctions in court, and also they are kind of talking about being involved in the next round of elections. What do you think about that?

>>Brett Mecum:
Well, you know, the Employer Sanctions issue has been a huge issue here in Arizona, as you well know. Governor Napolitano has been behind it. It had broad based bipartisan support in the House and Aenate. 92\% of Arizonans favor this sort of legislation. I think that this business organization -- these business organizations need to look at a little bit bigger picture here in that people like Don Goldwater still have an initiative they are trying to pass out there, which would be far worse than what the legislators come up with now. Also, the State Legislature has the ability to tweak these pieces of legislation to find out what works and what doesn't work. Whereas if they get an initiative, their hands are tied. As the groups target certain legislators on the republican side, there's been talk of Speaker Jim Weiers being targeted, the business community has to remember Phil Lopez, who is the Minority Leader for the Democrats in the House, told the Arizona or the Phoenix -- Greater Phoenix Chamber of Commerce that he wasn't for Corporate Tax incentives or Corporate Tax relief, so the business community has to remember it is best for them to keep Republicans in power in the State.

>>John Loredo:
The interesting thing to me at least when I picked up the paper and saw that the group had been formed, the first thing that went through my mind is, wow, they need a calendar because it's about a day late, and a whole bunch of money short. Why have they waited four years to actually step up and start talking about this thing? It is kind of bizarre to me. And you know, it kind of frustrates me, because all along the immigration debate, the one group that has been sitting on the sidelines, completely silent, has been the business community. They haven't -- they haven't gotten involved. They have been very comfortable as long as the focus of all of the anti-immigration rhetoric has been focused on those little brown skinned employees, but leave us out of the conversation. Now that they are in the middle of this thing, they don't like this. Now that they are the targets, we got to do something about this. They could have been involved a long time ago, spared themselves a whole lot of embarrassment, spared themselves a whole lot of money getting involved a long time ago, and bringing some type of rational debate into this thing. But it seems to me they waited way too long.

>>Brett Mecum:
I think Employer Sanctions is coming, and I think the business community and I think they will do what is in their best interest. You will see a lawsuit go forward. I predict it will probably get struck down, saying Arizona does have the right to create its own employee legislation, and then from there, I think it is the best deal they can get out of this, which is what the legislature passed and have them have the ability to tweak and adjust as we go forward.

>>John Loredo:
They are in a pretty tough position. Kind of they feel like they are losing if they don't do anything. And they will probably lose even bigger if they do do something. It will be interesting to see what happens. In any case, I hope that they are finally able to step up, and be vocal on this issue, and be honest with the people of this State, talking about why they hire undocumented migrant workers, and talking about why they need them, why they are vital to the economy, and talking about the impact to consumers, too. It has been a discussion that has been sorely missed for a long time, and I hope they finally have the courage and moral fortitude to step up.

>>Brett Mecum:
I think we have to remember that the business community keep the economy going in Arizona and they are a vital part of Arizona. I think we can all come to agreement and compromise in the end. Moving on to the National stage a little bit. The Associated Press released a new poll on the US Congress, showing it has a low approval rating of 22\%. This comes on the heels of a Gallup Poll that showed only a 14\% approval rating, the lowest in history, which I think goes to show that you have a Democratic-led Congress that came and said, "we are going to reform things and change things," and it is business as usual in Washington. What is your take on that?

>>John Loredo:
I think there is frustration all the way around, especially on the Democratic side. A lot of very upset Democrats who had high expectations about the Democratic-led Congress. The biggest issue being the War. This Congress was put in place by the people of this country to bring this War to an end. They put those legislators or those Congress people in power to fight with President Bush and try to bring some rational, intellectual thought to this thing and, you know, they backed down, and I think that left a really bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths. They shouldn't have backed down. That is not why we sent them to Congress. In the final analysis, I think you will see people on both sides of the aisle just want this War to be done with. Bring some type of conclusion, show us a way out of this thing, and show us a victory and do something different. What that didn't happen, it disappointed a lot of people. The second biggest issue is immigration reform. People expected them to go in, and that was priority number two, and put a bill through.

>>Brett Mecum:
I think it is a little bit more than that, because you have a House Speaker who is going around, negotiating with State Sponsors of Terrorism. You have a Senate Majority Leader who is saying that we have lost the War in Iraq, we need to surrender. You have Democrats that went out there, and made promises, and said they were going to bring gas prices down, and they have done nothing but go up since they took power six months ago. Gas prices here in Arizona were at $2.30 when they took power, and we are up to $2.35 in the State now.

>>John Loredo:
Which is less than $3 when the republicans were in power.

>>Brett Mecum:
Well, beyond that, you have Gabrielle Gifford, keeping the earmark secrets. She finally released them today after public outcry. You have Harry Mitchell in the State, who just released a frank mailing piece that looks very, very much like a campaign piece, which could be a violation of using taxpayer dollars for political gains. The problem is the American people sent the Democrats to Congress, and sent a message to the Republicans that change is wanted, and they haven't changed anything. They have passed 47 bills in the last six months. 21 have simply been to rename post offices and rename recreation centers and libraries.

>>John Loredo:
That's business as usual in Washington. That is not the exclusivity of the Democratic Party. There are two big issues out there. If you poll people, and ask the common people out on the street, they don't know about these things, and quite frankly, there are only two issues that people are really, really concerned about. That is the War and immigration reform. People across this country wanted reform. They wanted it to go through, and when it didn't happen, hey, they are going to be upset regardless of who is in office.

>>Brett Mecum:
The people across the country want reform, and I think what you see is the polling data shows that they want secure borders first. They want to be able to secure the borders and --

>>John Loredo: Polling data does show that they want comprehensive immigration reform, and do support a pathway to leadership for those people building their houses and picking their fruit and vegetables.

>>Brett Mecum:
And there's nothing wrong with having a Guest Worker Program for workers. I think we need that, and employment numbers show that. But, in a larger sense, the Senate bill didn't get it done. The Senate bill was a bad bill, and what we had was a failed bill that the American people didn't want. What we need to do --

>>John Loredo:
The majority of people did want that. But speaking of the Senate, we have a Senator McCain who's in kind of some tough times lately, it appears that the wheels have kind of fallen off the "Straight Talk Express". There are a lot of political pundits that are writing him off at this point. Of course, Senator McCain and his supporters are saying this is another bump that we will get over and press on. What do you think about it?

>>Brett Mecum:
I think the rumors of Senator McCain's demise are completely exaggerated. Senator McCain, love him or hate him, the man is a fighter, he is battler, he is in this to the end. It may have been a good thing that he scaled back and been able to get his campaign back on track where it needs to be. He will run a leaner campaign. He is definitely in the fight of his life, and he will concentrate on the early states, places like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, and Florida. If he can win there, he can springboard into the "Super Tuesday" Primary on February 5th and win the entire thing. The one thing you have to remember about John McCain is he is at his best when his back is up against the wall.

>>John Loredo:
Sure, he is. In a lot of ways, his greatest campaign asset over the years has been his history as a veteran and as a POW, and I think that that is the one issue that has kind of become his Achilles Heel in a lot of ways. And th reason why is that he continues to support increasing the number of troops going to Iraq when the overwhelming majority of Americans don't want to see Iraq going in that direction. They want some type of end to come out of this thing, and want the troops to come back home. On the other side, I think people see McCain, as being a veteran, as being a POW, that he would be maybe a little more sympathetic to wanting to get the troops home and bring some type of end to the war and scale it back, and end the War and bring our troops home much in the same way that the end of the Vietnam War brought him home.

>>Brett Mecum:
Not to get into a War debate, and stay on John McCain, I think you will find that John McCain or Mitt Romney or Rudy Giuliani will be better candidates than the Democrats have to offer. Hillary Clinton wants to socialize healthcare, Barack Obama is inexperienced. John McCain was spending the money on his own campaign, where John Edwards spends 1,250 bucks everytime he goes into a beauty salon. But, moving on, time to go into what is next. What is next here in Arizona? We at the Republican Party believe that 2008 is going to shape up to be a great year for us. We are watching Harry Mitchell already stumble with his frank malers, looking like campaign pieces at taxpayer expense. We're also looking at Gabrielle Gifford, she just finally released her earmarks, which she had kept secret for quite awhile, and fighted having to release them. It was only after the Arizona Republican Party, and other media outlets, including the Arizona Daily Star, and several blogs went on the offensive and said you need to be honest and open to the public, that she finally released those. We are feeling very very good about our 2008 chances.

>>John Loredo:
What is next on my side would be Employer Sanctions. Seeing what exactly this employers groups decide to do. They have been silent for a long time. Now their backs are against the wall. They are pretty much stuck, they don't know what to do. But they do have a lot of money, they used to have a lot of influence at the Capital. Now, with Clean Elections, they simply don't and people are not as indebted to them as they used to be. Especially people like Russell Pearce, who doesn't depend on them to fund his campaigns. So, he has gained a lot of independence away from the old kind of power structure of the chamber. So, it'll Interesting to see what they do this next election cycle to regain a foothold and gain the influence back.

>>Brett Mecum:
John, as always, it's a pleasure.

>>Mike Sauceda:
The State Legislature passed the Clean Air Bill, aimed at keeping the Valley in compliance with EPA Regulations. Learn more about how the bill might impact you from its sponsor and learn about more legislation recently passed by the Legislature, and find out about a bill that will improve victims rights. That's Tuesday at 7:00 on "Horizon"

>>Richard Ruelas:
Wednesday, we'll tell you the results of the latest AIMS testing in our public schools. Thursday, a review of this past session of the united states supreme court. And Friday, join us for the always great Journalists' Roundtable. That is all for this edition of "Horizon". I'm Richard Ruelas. For all of us here, good night.

>>Announcer:
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>>Announcer:
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Terry Goddard


  • The Arizona attorney general joins us to talk about the new employer sanctions bill and other issues.
Guests:
  • Terry Goddard - Arizona Attorney General
  • John Loredo - Political consultant, Tequida and Gutierrez


View Transcript
>>Richard Ruelas:
Tonight on "Horizon", a conversation with the Arizona Attorney General about Employer Sanctions, scams, and life care planning. And two political types go head to head on issues that affect Arizona in our regular Monday feature:"One-On-One". Next, on "Horizon".

>>Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by contributions from the "Friends of Eight", members of your Arizona PBS Station. Thank you.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Good evening, and thanks for joining us tonight on "Horizon" I'm Richard Ruelas. At the beginning of next year, a tough Employer Sanctions law will go into effect in Arizona. Any company that knowingly hires undocumented workers could have its license suspended after the first offense, and will have it revoked after the second offense. Joining me to talk about that and a few other scams to watch out for, as well as the importance of life-care planning- we're gonna cover a lot- Arizona's Attorney General, Terry Goddard. Good evening. Thanks for joining us.

>>Terry Goddard:
Good evening. It's a lot.

>>Richard Ruelas:
We will start quickly with Employer Sanctions. A lawsuit was filed Friday, I'm sure you spent the weekend perusing it.

>>Terry Goddard:
I spent the weekend reading it, but I would like to emphasize there are a lot of questions that Law Enforcement have, that we have been discussing about the law that was passed.

>>Richard Ruelas:
One suit particularly, what are your thoughts on the merits that says it is far reaching and unconstitutional because the Federal Government occupied the field of immigration as well as violating due process rights of the businesses?

>>Terry Goddard:
Yes, it basically accuses the new law of violating every other constitutional amendment, and it is against the Commerce Clause, it's against the, as you mentioned, due process and it's preempted by federal statute. These are claims we've heard before. I know they came up during the debate at the legislature. We will defend it. The Arizona Attorney General's Office we will go to court to say that these are not valid charges. There are concerns about the bill, but I think most of them, if not all, we can work out either among Law Enforcement getting together and deciding on procedures that are constitutional, or in a special session, which the Governor has said they probably will call in October to answer some of the unresolved questions. And, frankly, we have been thinking about this, and come up with a number of pretty serious questions that ought to be addressed by the Legislature.

>>Richard Ruelas:
I guess what -- when the law goes into effect in January, I guess, assuming it stays in its current form, what would someone have to do to complain or raise a case?

>>Terry Goddard:
I started to --

>>Richard Ruelas:
Sure.

>>Terry Goddard:
-- you've made this point twice. It goes into effect January 1st, and the day that the Governor signed the bill, my office started getting calls from people who said, "I'd like to make a complaint." I want to make it clear here, and I have been trying everywhere, to say until January 1st, there is no Employer Sanctions Bill in force in Arizona, so we can't even receive the complaints until then. If somebody has a case, they can be working on it, but they can't make the actual allegation until the law becomes effective.

>>Richard Ruelas:
I guess even the sheer number of these preliminary calls let you know come January 1st, you might get stormed.

>>Terry Goddard:
I'm expecting a thousand-plus calls a month, and that may be conservative. You're right, we have gotten a lot already just by people saying, "I think I know about an instance." You asked a question which, frankly, is something we have to work out, and that is: what is a valid complaint? The bill does not articulate what is a valid complaint under this new statute. Can it be anonymous? Can it -- does it have to have the specific name of the individual complained about? I think so because the bill says you have to check and see if the person is in this country legally. So without a name, I don't know how you do that. It has -- the complaint has to be non-frivolous because it also has a sanction for frivolous complaints that you can be guilty of a misdemeanor if you abuse the system.

>>Richard Ruelas:
It also sets out, it seems in my reading of it, which, of course, is very primary, a method under which you must investigate. Do you see different methods under which you investigate? It says you have to check a Federal database or check with the Feds to see if a name matches up. Do you think you have the license to go further?

>>Terry Goddard:
You are referring to what would be a defense for the employers. And the bill says specifically if you have gone to the Social Security Pilot Project Database and checked to see if this name shows that somebody is in this country illegally, that is "Prima Facie" you have done what you need to do to avoid -- if it turns out that that person is not here legally, but you have checked the database and have a receipt saying that you checked it, it would be impossible under the statute to prove that you knowingly hired somebody in this country illegally. There are probably others, and this is another place where I think some hard questions have to be asked. When you fill out an I-9 employment form, and have two, as it requires, at least two forms of identification and a Social Security number, does that mean you have satisfied the inquiry into whether or not this person is in the country legally? I don't know the answer to that. It is something we are going to be working on. It may have to be tested in court.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Yeah, the -- when you talk about the number of calls you are getting, and the enforcement thing, are you properly staffed to handle all these calls? Do you think you have enough?

>>Terry Goddard:
Well, I have questions about that. The bill is interesting in that it gives a divided jurisdiction, and says that both the County Attorneys and Attorney General will investigate. Presumably, it also means the Sheriff and police department can investigate, although it doesn't say anything about that. It also says that the actual prosecution of these cases, the case that could result in the suspension and termination of a license of a business, can only be done by County Attorneys. So, the Attorney General's office will not be part of that process, according to the bill. But we will be part of keeping a database to make sure that we know who has committed the first offense, so that on a second offense, their licenses will be terminated and also provides us some money to do that, but not a great deal.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Briefly, before we leave this topic, if you were a business owner in Arizona, would you be worried about this law?

>>Terry Goddard:
Apparently, a lot of business owners are, because my office has been contacted, and I know the Governor's Office has been besieged by businesses who are concerned about the economic impact. The bill, interestingly, has a fairly high level of proof to show that somebody knowledgeably or intentionally hired somebody, knowing that they were unauthorized aliens, that's the term that the bill uses, is a high level of proof. So, would I be worried? Yes, largely by the uncertainty. There are lot of questions that have to be answered between now and January 1st.

>>Richard Ruelas:
OK, we'll move on to what always seems a recurring theme, scams.

>>Terry Goddard:
Scams.

>>Richard Ruelas:
There seems to be no end to e-mail scams, and you were telling us before we went on the air about a door-to-door scam involving even the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Telecommunications.

>>Terry Goddard:
This has been a summer of exceptional scam activity in my experience. There has been an awful lot of phone scams, door-to-door scams. And the one you referred to was purported students claiming to be part of the Walter Cronkite School, raising money for a summer trip to London. It sounded incredibly convincing until people started asking them questions about what professor did you have or what courses are you taking and these students -- purported students didn't have a clue. It was a scam. The Walter Cronkite School does not raise money that way. It was an effort to force people into buying magazines. Another one we are very concerned about was a so-called "Medical Card" and people were calling seniors, targeting seniors, saying we have a new federally required medical card and be sure and give us -- in order to qualify so we can send it to you, I need your Social Security number and if -- and they were very, very aggressive about trying to get this information, supposedly for the senior's protection. It was everything but. It was a pure and simple identity theft effort to try to extort from folks their personal financial information, and we find that in so many different faces. There, over e-mail, sometimes through direct telephoning, although there is less of that, and through direct mail. We have something called "Seniors Fight Back", where our office took on the responsibility of taking all of the junk mail that 300 different seniors who volunteered for the privilege kept for the month of April, and we are sorting through it now. And it is extraordinary the number of mortgage supposed deals with very high questions, you know, making credible claims to people as to what they can provide on a mortgage refinance or new mortgage. There is a lot of scams involving the Reverse Mortgage, which many seniors use or can benefit from. And we are very concerned about all of this financial fraud.

>>Richard Ruelas:
And to that end, you are talking about mail and we will briefly talk, you have a "Shred-A-Thon" tomorrow night.

>>Terry Goddard:
We have, and because so much of the mail has personal identification in it, we encourage people to get rid of that. Don't let it accumulate in your house, don't throw it away.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Tomorrow night?

>>Terry Goddard:
Tomorrow, 17th of July, in the morning at 6:00 AM to 2:00 PM. We have a "Shred-A-Thon". It's a free service, it's at Assured Security Documentation Destruction at 215 West Lodge Drive in Tempe.

>>Richard Ruelas:
and a lot of the information available on the website--

>>Terry Goddard:
It's on our website--

>>Richard Ruelas:
And also on the website is the life-care planning for seniors.

>>Terry Goddard:
Let me just say this -- south of Guadalupe, and just east of Kyrene. If you are coming between 6:00 and 2:00 to shred documents, any amount of documents are appropriate. It is free, and it's a good way to get rid of financial information.

>>Richard Ruelas:
A couple of minutes left.

>>Terry Goddard:
To life-care planning. Yes. This is really important and the thing I want to emphasize is it is not just for seniors. Many people feel that end of life healthcare planning documents, such as we provide at the Attorney General's Office, are just for seniors. But the Terri Schiavo case and others show that everybody needs to be concerned about what would happen to you in the case of accident, or like in the case of Terri Schiavo a sudden stroke which would prevent you from taking care of your important healthcare needs. These documents, which are available free of charge over the Internet or we can mail it to you if you call the Attorney General's Office, includes a healthcare power of attorney, a mental healthcare power of attorney, a living will, these are the forms that would give you the protection. Letter to an agent, and a "Do Not Resuscitate" form.

>>Richard Ruelas:
It's this bright orange form.

>>Terry Goddard:
And this is the one form you cannot download over the Internet, because it has to be bright orange to be valid in the files.

>>Richard Ruelas:
And these are available at the Attorney General's Office main office, but also you mentioned the satellite office.

>>Terry Goddard:
We have 32 satellite offices. You can find the address by going to the Internet. There is one at ASU, at the Law School, but there are many other places that you can get this information.

>>Richard Ruelas:
A lot of great information there. And I'm sure we will have you back as we try to figure out the Employer Sanctions Law.

>>Terry Goddard:
Thank you. That's going to be a conundrum and it's gonna take another Legislative Session to iron out the wrinkles.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Attorney General Goddard, thanks for joining us.

>>Terry Goddard:
Thank you.

>>Richard Ruelas:
Every Monday evening, we feature two political experts going "One-On-O ne" on issues that affect the State. Tonight, we examine the continuing fallout from the new Employer Sanctions Law, and the struggles of presidential candidate John McCain. John Loredo, a political consultant from Tequida and Gutierrez, will go one on one with Brett Mecum, the Communications Director of the Arizona Republican Party.

>>John Loredo:
Good evening, Brett.

>>Brett Mecum:
How is it going, John? We're here again.

>>John Loredo:
Here we are. This week, big issue, Employer Sanctions. There's a new business-led organization that has formed in order to try to defeat Employer Sanctions in court, and also they are kind of talking about being involved in the next round of elections. What do you think about that?

>>Brett Mecum:
Well, you know, the Employer Sanctions issue has been a huge issue here in Arizona, as you well know. Governor Napolitano has been behind it. It had broad based bipartisan support in the House and Aenate. 92\% of Arizonans favor this sort of legislation. I think that this business organization -- these business organizations need to look at a little bit bigger picture here in that people like Don Goldwater still have an initiative they are trying to pass out there, which would be far worse than what the legislators come up with now. Also, the State Legislature has the ability to tweak these pieces of legislation to find out what works and what doesn't work. Whereas if they get an initiative, their hands are tied. As the groups target certain legislators on the republican side, there's been talk of Speaker Jim Weiers being targeted, the business community has to remember Phil Lopez, who is the Minority Leader for the Democrats in the House, told the Arizona or the Phoenix -- Greater Phoenix Chamber of Commerce that he wasn't for Corporate Tax incentives or Corporate Tax relief, so the business community has to remember it is best for them to keep Republicans in power in the State.

>>John Loredo:
The interesting thing to me at least when I picked up the paper and saw that the group had been formed, the first thing that went through my mind is, wow, they need a calendar because it's about a day late, and a whole bunch of money short. Why have they waited four years to actually step up and start talking about this thing? It is kind of bizarre to me. And you know, it kind of frustrates me, because all along the immigration debate, the one group that has been sitting on the sidelines, completely silent, has been the business community. They haven't -- they haven't gotten involved. They have been very comfortable as long as the focus of all of the anti-immigration rhetoric has been focused on those little brown skinned employees, but leave us out of the conversation. Now that they are in the middle of this thing, they don't like this. Now that they are the targets, we got to do something about this. They could have been involved a long time ago, spared themselves a whole lot of embarrassment, spared themselves a whole lot of money getting involved a long time ago, and bringing some type of rational debate into this thing. But it seems to me they waited way too long.

>>Brett Mecum:
I think Employer Sanctions is coming, and I think the business community and I think they will do what is in their best interest. You will see a lawsuit go forward. I predict it will probably get struck down, saying Arizona does have the right to create its own employee legislation, and then from there, I think it is the best deal they can get out of this, which is what the legislature passed and have them have the ability to tweak and adjust as we go forward.

>>John Loredo:
They are in a pretty tough position. Kind of they feel like they are losing if they don't do anything. And they will probably lose even bigger if they do do something. It will be interesting to see what happens. In any case, I hope that they are finally able to step up, and be vocal on this issue, and be honest with the people of this State, talking about why they hire undocumented migrant workers, and talking about why they need them, why they are vital to the economy, and talking about the impact to consumers, too. It has been a discussion that has been sorely missed for a long time, and I hope they finally have the courage and moral fortitude to step up.

>>Brett Mecum:
I think we have to remember that the business community keep the economy going in Arizona and they are a vital part of Arizona. I think we can all come to agreement and compromise in the end. Moving on to the National stage a little bit. The Associated Press released a new poll on the US Congress, showing it has a low approval rating of 22\%. This comes on the heels of a Gallup Poll that showed only a 14\% approval rating, the lowest in history, which I think goes to show that you have a Democratic-led Congress that came and said, "we are going to reform things and change things," and it is business as usual in Washington. What is your take on that?

>>John Loredo:
I think there is frustration all the way around, especially on the Democratic side. A lot of very upset Democrats who had high expectations about the Democratic-led Congress. The biggest issue being the War. This Congress was put in place by the people of this country to bring this War to an end. They put those legislators or those Congress people in power to fight with President Bush and try to bring some rational, intellectual thought to this thing and, you know, they backed down, and I think that left a really bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths. They shouldn't have backed down. That is not why we sent them to Congress. In the final analysis, I think you will see people on both sides of the aisle just want this War to be done with. Bring some type of conclusion, show us a way out of this thing, and show us a victory and do something different. What that didn't happen, it disappointed a lot of people. The second biggest issue is immigration reform. People expected them to go in, and that was priority number two, and put a bill through.

>>Brett Mecum:
I think it is a little bit more than that, because you have a House Speaker who is going around, negotiating with State Sponsors of Terrorism. You have a Senate Majority Leader who is saying that we have lost the War in Iraq, we need to surrender. You have Democrats that went out there, and made promises, and said they were going to bring gas prices down, and they have done nothing but go up since they took power six months ago. Gas prices here in Arizona were at $2.30 when they took power, and we are up to $2.35 in the State now.

>>John Loredo:
Which is less than $3 when the republicans were in power.

>>Brett Mecum:
Well, beyond that, you have Gabrielle Gifford, keeping the earmark secrets. She finally released them today after public outcry. You have Harry Mitchell in the State, who just released a frank mailing piece that looks very, very much like a campaign piece, which could be a violation of using taxpayer dollars for political gains. The problem is the American people sent the Democrats to Congress, and sent a message to the Republicans that change is wanted, and they haven't changed anything. They have passed 47 bills in the last six months. 21 have simply been to rename post offices and rename recreation centers and libraries.

>>John Loredo:
That's business as usual in Washington. That is not the exclusivity of the Democratic Party. There are two big issues out there. If you poll people, and ask the common people out on the street, they don't know about these things, and quite frankly, there are only two issues that people are really, really concerned about. That is the War and immigration reform. People across this country wanted reform. They wanted it to go through, and when it didn't happen, hey, they are going to be upset regardless of who is in office.

>>Brett Mecum:
The people across the country want reform, and I think what you see is the polling data shows that they want secure borders first. They want to be able to secure the borders and --

>>John Loredo: Polling data does show that they want comprehensive immigration reform, and do support a pathway to leadership for those people building their houses and picking their fruit and vegetables.

>>Brett Mecum:
And there's nothing wrong with having a Guest Worker Program for workers. I think we need that, and employment numbers show that. But, in a larger sense, the Senate bill didn't get it done. The Senate bill was a bad bill, and what we had was a failed bill that the American people didn't want. What we need to do --

>>John Loredo:
The majority of people did want that. But speaking of the Senate, we have a Senator McCain who's in kind of some tough times lately, it appears that the wheels have kind of fallen off the "Straight Talk Express". There are a lot of political pundits that are writing him off at this point. Of course, Senator McCain and his supporters are saying this is another bump that we will get over and press on. What do you think about it?

>>Brett Mecum:
I think the rumors of Senator McCain's demise are completely exaggerated. Senator McCain, love him or hate him, the man is a fighter, he is battler, he is in this to the end. It may have been a good thing that he scaled back and been able to get his campaign back on track where it needs to be. He will run a leaner campaign. He is definitely in the fight of his life, and he will concentrate on the early states, places like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, and Florida. If he can win there, he can springboard into the "Super Tuesday" Primary on February 5th and win the entire thing. The one thing you have to remember about John McCain is he is at his best when his back is up against the wall.

>>John Loredo:
Sure, he is. In a lot of ways, his greatest campaign asset over the years has been his history as a veteran and as a POW, and I think that that is the one issue that has kind of become his Achilles Heel in a lot of ways. And th reason why is that he continues to support increasing the number of troops going to Iraq when the overwhelming majority of Americans don't want to see Iraq going in that direction. They want some type of end to come out of this thing, and want the troops to come back home. On the other side, I think people see McCain, as being a veteran, as being a POW, that he would be maybe a little more sympathetic to wanting to get the troops home and bring some type of end to the war and scale it back, and end the War and bring our troops home much in the same way that the end of the Vietnam War brought him home.

>>Brett Mecum:
Not to get into a War debate, and stay on John McCain, I think you will find that John McCain or Mitt Romney or Rudy Giuliani will be better candidates than the Democrats have to offer. Hillary Clinton wants to socialize healthcare, Barack Obama is inexperienced. John McCain was spending the money on his own campaign, where John Edwards spends 1,250 bucks everytime he goes into a beauty salon. But, moving on, time to go into what is next. What is next here in Arizona? We at the Republican Party believe that 2008 is going to shape up to be a great year for us. We are watching Harry Mitchell already stumble with his frank malers, looking like campaign pieces at taxpayer expense. We're also looking at Gabrielle Gifford, she just finally released her earmarks, which she had kept secret for quite awhile, and fighted having to release them. It was only after the Arizona Republican Party, and other media outlets, including the Arizona Daily Star, and several blogs went on the offensive and said you need to be honest and open to the public, that she finally released those. We are feeling very very good about our 2008 chances.

>>John Loredo:
What is next on my side would be Employer Sanctions. Seeing what exactly this employers groups decide to do. They have been silent for a long time. Now their backs are against the wall. They are pretty much stuck, they don't know what to do. But they do have a lot of money, they used to have a lot of influence at the Capital. Now, with Clean Elections, they simply don't and people are not as indebted to them as they used to be. Especially people like Russell Pearce, who doesn't depend on them to fund his campaigns. So, he has gained a lot of independence away from the old kind of power structure of the chamber. So, it'll Interesting to see what they do this next election cycle to regain a foothold and gain the influence back.

>>Brett Mecum:
John, as always, it's a pleasure.

>>Mike Sauceda:
The State Legislature passed the Clean Air Bill, aimed at keeping the Valley in compliance with EPA Regulations. Learn more about how the bill might impact you from its sponsor and learn about more legislation recently passed by the Legislature, and find out about a bill that will improve victims rights. That's Tuesday at 7:00 on "Horizon"

>>Richard Ruelas:
Wednesday, we'll tell you the results of the latest AIMS testing in our public schools. Thursday, a review of this past session of the united states supreme court. And Friday, join us for the always great Journalists' Roundtable. That is all for this edition of "Horizon". I'm Richard Ruelas. For all of us here, good night.

>>Announcer:
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>>Announcer:
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