Horizon, Host: Ted Simons

May 10, 2007


Host: Matthew Whitaker

Apprehension Reductions


  • Apprehensions of Illegal Aliens are down at the U.S. Mexican border. Tougher enforcement, including 6,000 additional guard troops, is being credited. But ASU Economist Dawn McLaren says the real credit belongs to a worsening economy.
Guests:
  • Dawn McLaren - Economist, Arizona State University
  • Sheridan Bailey - Co-founder and President, Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform
  • Roger Vanderpool - Director, Arizona Department of Public Safety
Category: Immigration   |   Keywords: Eonomy, business,

View Transcript
Matthew Whitaker:
Tonight on "Horizon," is tough enforcement causing apprehensions of illegal immigration to drop? An economist gives her answers. An ad campaign is starting to call for comprehensive immigration reform. Learn about that. 22 officers have graduated to help immigration enforcement. The head of police tells us more. That's coming up next on horizon.

Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by contributions from the friends of eight, members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

Matthew Whitaker:
Good evening and welcome to horizon. I'm Matthew Whitaker. Recently apprehensions of illegal aliens at the U.S.-Mexico border have dropped 27 percent. President Bush credits 6,000 National Guard troops placed at the border. But an Arizona State University economist says not so fast. She says a weakening economy should get credit for the drop in apprehensions. Here now to tell us more about her research is A.S.U. economist Dawn McLaren.

Matthew Whitaker:
Thank you for joining us. President Bush is touting his efforts as sort of curtailing the stream at the border. But you're saying there are economic reasons, profound once.

Dawn McLaren:
Exactly. In fact, I've mentioned if I were an editorial cartoonist I would draw a little cartoon of the border with some very fierce border patrol agents staring across the border and with this great big grizzly bear with its clause ought and "economy" written across its chest. Because the economy is so huge and so powerful that it is a huge draw for people. For decades and decades immigrants have been crossing that border illegally, dodging border patrol agents, dodging our policies, to be able to get here and work.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you tell us about you research and how you track illegal immigration activity and how it affects the economy?

Dawn McLaren:
I've got a 16-year history showing that if you seasonally readjust it, every time the economy goes down, about 12 months before you'll see apprehensions drop. When the economy starts doing well, about 12 months above you'll see apprehensions rise. And that's on a seasonally-adjusted basis. And sure enough, back in November and December of 2005 we sass turning points. The peak was starting to head downwards on apprehensions at the border. And sure enough, we see G.D.P. going from 5.6 percent on a real basis last year to 1.3 percent this year. So they were right again.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, to what degree does the drop or the slowdown in the housing market and other industries that are impacted by illegal immigration in fact impact this issue?

Dawn McLaren:
This is the interesting thing. Illegal immigrants are actually in a diverse set of industries. They're in construction and hospitality and many years. It used to be they were concentrated in agriculture but that has changed over the last 20, 30 years. Now they are a much more diverse set of industries than they used to be. And our housing market here, the changes in our housing markets certainly have affected GDP. But we saw the first little indicator was that drop in apprehensions.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. So we are seeing a decline that's related to it to some degree?

Dawn McLaren:
Yes. In fact, that's the first indicator. A number of months later the purchasing manager's index also showed a slow down. Then the net performer based on the yield curve showed a slowdown in GDP It just so happened that that change in immigration was one of the very first indicators. And it's because they're so highly networked. They communicate with each other. They come when there are jobs here.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. That was the next question I was going to ask you. The impact of the extended networks of family and friends that are already here that serve as a liaison and conduit to these jobs. Can you speak to that, how that factors into the equation?

Dawn McLaren:
Yes. Well, it's been known for a long time they do tend to travel in groups and travel, for instance people from the same town tend to travel together. They will call home and say, look, this is the best time to come across, because this is where we need people on our crew. And they can come over here and know that people that they can stay with, people they can communicate with. And it's just, like I said, a very highly network. So when you drop a little pebble in that pool, the ripples can be seen quite easily. That's why it's such an early indicator for us.

Matthew Whitaker:
Do you get an angry response from people when you say that it's about the economy and not necessarily about enforcement?

Dawn McLaren:
Not yet. I think people accept. This I think it's been known for a long time. For instance, that when we had a net loss of Mexican migrants when there were fewer Mexican migrants coming across than going back they actually had more going back was in the great depression. The great depression was when we didn't have very many be jobs over here for anybody.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you speak to the historical presitent? Because in the green room earlier we were talking about this friend about when the economy slows down, it has all sorts of implications. This basically has historical roots. We're not reinventing the wheel in essence here.

Dawn McLaren:
Correct. This is something that we've known for a long time. We know they come for jobs and because our economy is able to provide a higher wage, all of this type of thing. It's not necessarily for a better standard of living or to establish a life over here but to come here and work and send money home so they can establish a better life back home.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, can you tell us, what motivated you to take this particular approach for this topic with your research?

Dawn McLaren:
Well, a number of years ago -- going, back in about 1995 or earlier -- I read a paper having to do with -- it was an accusation of border patrol. Saying border patrol turns their back at certain points and lets immigrants come across the border because they know they are needed in the agriculture field. I read this with great interest. I thought, wow, this is interesting stuff. I don't know the paper if they proved it was true or not. I don't think they did. I think it's a matter of a seasonal thing. If you look there is a seasonality to it. When I look at the numbers I take that seasonality out statistically to make sure I'm not looking at things that may just be a fluctuation because it happens to be summertime or fluctuation because there happens to be a crop that needs to be picked.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And so "it's the economy, stupid" to some degree it's the economy and the economy is very powerful.

Dawn McLaren:
Look how large our economy is. And look at the fact that we need people of this particular group at this point. You know, in times before we needed immigrants from perhaps the more educated immigrants. Right now we have a demographic problem where we simply do not have enough of the young people who are out mowing the neighbor's lawn, shoveling the driveway when it's snowy out, that sort of thing.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well, professor Mclaren, thanks for joining us on horizon.

Dawn McLaren:
Thank you for having mere here.

Matthew Whiaker:
A newly formed business group will start running TV and radio ads tomorrow pushing for comprehensive immigration reform. They would like to see congress pass a bill that has enforced border security, a guest worker program, employment eligibility verification, and the resolution of the legal status of the 12 million undocumented immigrants already in the country. I'll talk to the president and cofounder of the group. But first, here are the ads that will be run by the group.

Commercial speaker:
I build homes for a living. If I'm going to build you a good, affordable home I need workers.

Commercial speaker:
If they're going to depend on me for a clean hotel room ready when you check, in I need workers.

Commercial speaker:
You want -- just the way you like it you need workers.

Commercial speaker:
I guess if I want fresh vegetables, beef and dairy products at a price my family can afford, farmers need workers, too.

Commercial speaker:
Let's support a solution that includes border security and work permits. Call congress today. Paid for by Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform.

(Commercial)Sheridan Bailey:
My name is Sheridan bailey and I need workers at my steel plant. I've raised wages 25\% this year, but I still can't find enough qualified workers when I need them. Congress must act now to control our borders. We need a realistic guest worker program so America's small business and our economy can grow.

Commercial Speaker:
Call your congressman today at 202-224-3121. And support immigration reform now. Paid for by Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform.

Matthew Whitaker:
Here now is the cofounder and president of Arizona employers for immigration reform, Sheridan Bailey. Sheridan, thank you very much for joining us.

Sheridan Bailey:
I'm really glad to be here.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you begin by telling us about your organization, how it was formed and who makes up the organization?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, we're a bottom-up, grassroots coalition of broad business interests from construction, hospitality, restaurant, agriculture and others, that have a deep -- a necessary requirement for manual and semi-skilled workers that we need to keep our businesses growing. So we started in December when we realized that congress wasn't hearing from the economic interests of this country, and that they were operating in a vacuum without our issues, our stories, our realities, that we're not being expressed.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, tell us, what do you seek to accomplish with your commercials? I mean, we saw it earlier. What do you hope that folks get out of that?

Sheridan Bailey:
Generally we want to raise awareness amongst the population in general, but also with respect to other employers. We represent probably at this point about 100 employers here in Arizona, maybe 15,000 workers. But there are a lot more people with a lot more at stake that need to be involved in this and need to be speaking to congress about our needs for comprehensive reform.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And you've indicated that your group has four main goals for immigration reform, and that's a guest worker program and employment eligibility verification, resolutions and status of these 12 million illegal immigrants that are already here. Can you talk to us about how you want those to be than of handled? How are you going to go about talking about those and raising awareness about those issues?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, the issue is complex. It's not a simple black and white, knee-jerk kind of solution. That's the problem is we've had laws on the books that really don't address the complex realities of labor economics, growth, employment and border security. So we've adopted a set of general principles that we believe need to be incorporated in the law that we hope and urgently require from the 110th congress. So there are a lot of specifics in all of that that have to be worked out, you know, in the political environment, in Washington. And we hope to influence our delegation here in Arizona and elsewhere to use really good judgment and to work hard to get an effective long-term solution for our country, for our economy, for our border, and for the employees that work for us.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. So those four main goals are basically a launching platform to focus on.

Sheridan Bailey:
Correct. Yeah.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. To what extent are you going to deal with or do you feel you'll have to deal with or address the extreme rhetoric with this debate that submerged on both sides?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, you know, the phenomena of polarity in our political system exists in part because we employers and others have been too busy dealing with the daily chores of life of running our businesses and so forth to be more involved. And we need to be more involved in communicating the mandate of the people, the realities of what's going on to our elected representatives. So I think merely by getting involved, by calling our elected representatives, writing, having meetings with them, that we'll begin to see a shift in the way congress responds to these issues. When they know that such a significant part of their electorate, the people that engineer the economic health of this country are seriously and urgently concerned with how congress deals with these issues, then I think they'll respond appropriately. That's the way the system is supposed to work. We just need to be involved.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And you believe it's vital for immigration reform to happen this year? Why this year?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, there's ever-increasing frustration. Rightly so on the part of people across the spectrum with respect to the lack of security of our borders, the ways in which we can imagine and risk infiltration from terrorists who intend to do us harm and our success and managing those threats is directly related to comprehensive reform. How we allocate enforcement resources is terribly important. And right now we've got them bogged down in catching people who our economy needs to support our prosperity and health of our businesses and our economy. So there's a complex set of issues that need to be addressed in this 110th congress. And we hope to make our voice and our will heard in the next months as this debate goes on here in the summer and before the fall of this year.

Matthew Whitaker:
Certainly folks are going to be tuned in to what you're doing and certainly interested in that as we move forward in this debate. I want to thank you for joining us on horizon this evening. Wonderful information.

Sheridan Bailey:
Thank you, matt. Glad to be here.

Matthew Whitaker:
22 officers from around Arizona this week joined the ranks of 290 officers nationwide would have completed 287-g training. 287-g training refers to a seconds of immigration law that allows state and local police to enter into agreements with the department of homeland security. The agreements allow those local officers to perform immigration enforcement duties. The officers also receive five weeks of training in immigration law, civil rights, and intercultural relations. That training session is compressed, normally being done in 16 weeks. I'll talk to the head of the Arizona Department of Public Safety about the training. Mike Sauceda tells us about the graduation.

Mike Sauceda:
It's not your typical graduation scene. 10 from the -- just completed their 287-g training. Vice-president Sergeant Peter Zededa of the department of corrections explains what the training is.

Peter Zededa:
What exactly is 287-g, you may be wondering? Under 287-g, the section of immigration law, I provide state and local law enforcement with training and subsequent authorization to identify, process and when appropriate detain immigration offenders they encounter during the regular daily law enforcement activity. In order for good law enforcement to be successful, effective communication and cooperation are paramount factors. Those components were present in our classroom environment as we aided and challenged one another to excel and succeed.

Mike Sauceda:
Roger Ferguson of the Arizona Department of Public Safety was one of those graduating.

Roger Ferguson:
This was quite an experience for us. I've been a police officer for 17-years. And I've never been exposed to anything quite so involved in all my life. We had to take tests that we had to pay attention. And I must admit, at times that was kind of hard. I did learn how to do some new things with my cell phone. But we all got through. [Laughter] I was given this opportunity to address you by my peers, my fellow workers. And I just want to tell you that none of us take this mission that we're going to be on lightly. We note impact of it. We know the importance of how to use these new tools. And we also understand the human element involved in this situation involving immigration. Some of these people are victimized to horrible situations. [Applause]

Mike Sauceda:
Congratulations for those graduating officers made up a good part of the ceremony.

Troy Henley:
I want to thank you, the officers and detectives in this class, for all your hard work. And to thank you for being willing and able to assist I.C.E., both the office of investigations and the office of detention and removal, in our enforcement mission. By assisting us in that mission, it is my belief that you will make Arizona a safer and a better place to live.

Dora Schriro:
At this point in time, you are responsible for expediting the deportation of 820 eligible criminal aliens back to their home and country. And today you have saved Arizona taxpayers nearly $10 million. $9.7 million to be exact. Through the expeditious moving of that population back to the appropriate jurisdiction.

Brian Sands:
We're faced with many challenges in this area. It appears overwhelming at times, but you're the group of people here that I want to congratulate that took this challenge and has accepted it and has succeeded in getting through this tough course.

Matthew Whitaker:
With me now to tell us more about the 287 h-g train something Roger Vanderpool, the director of the Arizona Department of public safety. Thank you for joining us.

Roger Vanderpool:
Thank you for having me.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you tell us more about the training that officers received?

Roger Vanderpool:
Right. The 287-g training really takes the training that a border patrol or an I.C.E. officer would receive over a 16-week period, condenses that down into five weeks. And it makes that officer, our officer, aware of the immigration laws, also gives them even extra training on civil rights issues, allows them to be able to access some of the databases that immigration and custom enforcement uses to help determine whether a person is in the united states legally or not.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Why is it important for them to have this training? Can you speak to that?

Roger Vanderpool:
Well, it's very complex. Immigration law is a very complex issue. And the average police officer -- it's not something that we train. Not something that we do on a daily basis. It's something that we have left as part of their duties to the federal authorities. We're seeing that with the increase in people trying to get into the United States, criminal syndicates are becoming involved. And to dismantle those criminal syndicates, we have to partner with the federal government, with the federal authorities. And we have to have those tools to be able to attack those criminal syndicates.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, the sheriff's office, they pick up the smuggled and the smugglers. Would DPS be doing the same thing?

Roger Vanderpool:
We again are going to attack as we have been those criminal syndicates. And we have a M.O.U. with I.C.E., with the immigration and customs enforcement. And mart of that agreement is to attack those criminal organizations, the criminal enterprises that are profiting out of smuggling both people, drugs, guns, weapons. So we are really going after those heads of organizations. We want to cut off the head of the snake.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well, can you tell us more of the specifics about how the officers will use their training for our viewers? I mean, what sort of specific things will they be doing?

Roger Vanderpool:
First ten, these are all part of our gang enforcement task force. And many of the gangs we're dealing with have undocumented aliens in them. And so that's where we're concentrating our initial concentration of officers. Plus as part of the state gang task force last year, the legislature added a piece to the gitem, the gang intelligence and now immigration team enforcement. That we would have those officers focus on immigration border crimes. Such that we're utilizing those. So those detectives will be utilizing that 287-g training and investigating crimes related to gangs, border violence, and smuggling.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well now, and here's the rub. Will you be receiving any extra federal dollars for all those new things, responsibilities that you have?

Roger Vanderpool:
No. No. The extra money we've gotten in our budget has been all through the state.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, will the ten officers that are going to be doing the immigration work be taken off of their regular duties?

Roger Vanderpool:
No. This was part of -- they're all part of the gang task force right now, anyhow. So this is just part of what we're assigning them to do, anyhow. But they now have extra tools. We eventually hope to have about 100 officers trained.

Matthew Whitaker:
100 officers.

Roger Vanderpool:
Yes.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, can you talk to us about -- how important is this? I mean this training. Can you just speak to how important is this training for you in what you seek to accomplish?

Roger Vanderpool:
Well, the importance of this training -- again, this whole program is part of Governor Napolitano's secure Arizona initiative. And the training allows that officer to determine again whether an individual is in the country illegally or not. Oftentimes people will say, yes, I'm in the country. And an officer may have reasons to believe that individual is not. But without having the opportunity to access some of the databases that again federal government has, I.C.E., and to determine whether the person is here -- because actually the person can be here legally in many different ways. And the average street cop is not going to be able to figure that out. And the last thing we want to do is violate someone's civil rights.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Wonderful. Thank you very much for joining us and talking about it. Very, very, very important issue.

Roger Vanderpool:
Thank you for having me.

Matthew Whitaker:
All right.

Larry Lemmons:
It's been a busy week at the Arizona state legislature. A log jam in the state senate on the state budget is broken. A bill making it harder to sue ER doctors fails in the house. And the governor vetoes a bill dealing with illegal immigration. Those stories and more on the Journalists' Roundtable Friday at 7:00 on "Horizon."

Mathew Whitaker:
Thank you for joining us this evening on Horizon. I'm Matthew Whitaker. Good night.

Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform


  • A new group will start an ad campaign Friday, pushing Congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform. Sheridan Bailey, co-founder and president of Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform and owner of Ironco Enterprises, a Phoenix-based iron fabricator, will talk about the group's efforts.
Guests:
  • Dawn McLaren - Economist, Arizona State University
  • Sheridan Bailey - Co-founder and President, Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform
  • Roger Vanderpool - Director, Arizona Department of Public Safety
Category: Immigration   |   Keywords: business, arizona economy,

View Transcript
Matthew Whitaker:
Tonight on "Horizon," is tough enforcement causing apprehensions of illegal immigration to drop? An economist gives her answers. An ad campaign is starting to call for comprehensive immigration reform. Learn about that. 22 officers have graduated to help immigration enforcement. The head of police tells us more. That's coming up next on horizon.

Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by contributions from the friends of eight, members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

Matthew Whitaker:
Good evening and welcome to horizon. I'm Matthew Whitaker. Recently apprehensions of illegal aliens at the U.S.-Mexico border have dropped 27 percent. President Bush credits 6,000 National Guard troops placed at the border. But an Arizona State University economist says not so fast. She says a weakening economy should get credit for the drop in apprehensions. Here now to tell us more about her research is A.S.U. economist Dawn McLaren.

Matthew Whitaker:
Thank you for joining us. President Bush is touting his efforts as sort of curtailing the stream at the border. But you're saying there are economic reasons, profound once.

Dawn McLaren:
Exactly. In fact, I've mentioned if I were an editorial cartoonist I would draw a little cartoon of the border with some very fierce border patrol agents staring across the border and with this great big grizzly bear with its clause ought and "economy" written across its chest. Because the economy is so huge and so powerful that it is a huge draw for people. For decades and decades immigrants have been crossing that border illegally, dodging border patrol agents, dodging our policies, to be able to get here and work.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you tell us about you research and how you track illegal immigration activity and how it affects the economy?

Dawn McLaren:
I've got a 16-year history showing that if you seasonally readjust it, every time the economy goes down, about 12 months before you'll see apprehensions drop. When the economy starts doing well, about 12 months above you'll see apprehensions rise. And that's on a seasonally-adjusted basis. And sure enough, back in November and December of 2005 we sass turning points. The peak was starting to head downwards on apprehensions at the border. And sure enough, we see G.D.P. going from 5.6 percent on a real basis last year to 1.3 percent this year. So they were right again.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, to what degree does the drop or the slowdown in the housing market and other industries that are impacted by illegal immigration in fact impact this issue?

Dawn McLaren:
This is the interesting thing. Illegal immigrants are actually in a diverse set of industries. They're in construction and hospitality and many years. It used to be they were concentrated in agriculture but that has changed over the last 20, 30 years. Now they are a much more diverse set of industries than they used to be. And our housing market here, the changes in our housing markets certainly have affected GDP. But we saw the first little indicator was that drop in apprehensions.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. So we are seeing a decline that's related to it to some degree?

Dawn McLaren:
Yes. In fact, that's the first indicator. A number of months later the purchasing manager's index also showed a slow down. Then the net performer based on the yield curve showed a slowdown in GDP It just so happened that that change in immigration was one of the very first indicators. And it's because they're so highly networked. They communicate with each other. They come when there are jobs here.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. That was the next question I was going to ask you. The impact of the extended networks of family and friends that are already here that serve as a liaison and conduit to these jobs. Can you speak to that, how that factors into the equation?

Dawn McLaren:
Yes. Well, it's been known for a long time they do tend to travel in groups and travel, for instance people from the same town tend to travel together. They will call home and say, look, this is the best time to come across, because this is where we need people on our crew. And they can come over here and know that people that they can stay with, people they can communicate with. And it's just, like I said, a very highly network. So when you drop a little pebble in that pool, the ripples can be seen quite easily. That's why it's such an early indicator for us.

Matthew Whitaker:
Do you get an angry response from people when you say that it's about the economy and not necessarily about enforcement?

Dawn McLaren:
Not yet. I think people accept. This I think it's been known for a long time. For instance, that when we had a net loss of Mexican migrants when there were fewer Mexican migrants coming across than going back they actually had more going back was in the great depression. The great depression was when we didn't have very many be jobs over here for anybody.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you speak to the historical presitent? Because in the green room earlier we were talking about this friend about when the economy slows down, it has all sorts of implications. This basically has historical roots. We're not reinventing the wheel in essence here.

Dawn McLaren:
Correct. This is something that we've known for a long time. We know they come for jobs and because our economy is able to provide a higher wage, all of this type of thing. It's not necessarily for a better standard of living or to establish a life over here but to come here and work and send money home so they can establish a better life back home.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, can you tell us, what motivated you to take this particular approach for this topic with your research?

Dawn McLaren:
Well, a number of years ago -- going, back in about 1995 or earlier -- I read a paper having to do with -- it was an accusation of border patrol. Saying border patrol turns their back at certain points and lets immigrants come across the border because they know they are needed in the agriculture field. I read this with great interest. I thought, wow, this is interesting stuff. I don't know the paper if they proved it was true or not. I don't think they did. I think it's a matter of a seasonal thing. If you look there is a seasonality to it. When I look at the numbers I take that seasonality out statistically to make sure I'm not looking at things that may just be a fluctuation because it happens to be summertime or fluctuation because there happens to be a crop that needs to be picked.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And so "it's the economy, stupid" to some degree it's the economy and the economy is very powerful.

Dawn McLaren:
Look how large our economy is. And look at the fact that we need people of this particular group at this point. You know, in times before we needed immigrants from perhaps the more educated immigrants. Right now we have a demographic problem where we simply do not have enough of the young people who are out mowing the neighbor's lawn, shoveling the driveway when it's snowy out, that sort of thing.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well, professor Mclaren, thanks for joining us on horizon.

Dawn McLaren:
Thank you for having mere here.

Matthew Whiaker:
A newly formed business group will start running TV and radio ads tomorrow pushing for comprehensive immigration reform. They would like to see congress pass a bill that has enforced border security, a guest worker program, employment eligibility verification, and the resolution of the legal status of the 12 million undocumented immigrants already in the country. I'll talk to the president and cofounder of the group. But first, here are the ads that will be run by the group.

Commercial speaker:
I build homes for a living. If I'm going to build you a good, affordable home I need workers.

Commercial speaker:
If they're going to depend on me for a clean hotel room ready when you check, in I need workers.

Commercial speaker:
You want -- just the way you like it you need workers.

Commercial speaker:
I guess if I want fresh vegetables, beef and dairy products at a price my family can afford, farmers need workers, too.

Commercial speaker:
Let's support a solution that includes border security and work permits. Call congress today. Paid for by Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform.

(Commercial)Sheridan Bailey:
My name is Sheridan bailey and I need workers at my steel plant. I've raised wages 25\% this year, but I still can't find enough qualified workers when I need them. Congress must act now to control our borders. We need a realistic guest worker program so America's small business and our economy can grow.

Commercial Speaker:
Call your congressman today at 202-224-3121. And support immigration reform now. Paid for by Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform.

Matthew Whitaker:
Here now is the cofounder and president of Arizona employers for immigration reform, Sheridan Bailey. Sheridan, thank you very much for joining us.

Sheridan Bailey:
I'm really glad to be here.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you begin by telling us about your organization, how it was formed and who makes up the organization?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, we're a bottom-up, grassroots coalition of broad business interests from construction, hospitality, restaurant, agriculture and others, that have a deep -- a necessary requirement for manual and semi-skilled workers that we need to keep our businesses growing. So we started in December when we realized that congress wasn't hearing from the economic interests of this country, and that they were operating in a vacuum without our issues, our stories, our realities, that we're not being expressed.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, tell us, what do you seek to accomplish with your commercials? I mean, we saw it earlier. What do you hope that folks get out of that?

Sheridan Bailey:
Generally we want to raise awareness amongst the population in general, but also with respect to other employers. We represent probably at this point about 100 employers here in Arizona, maybe 15,000 workers. But there are a lot more people with a lot more at stake that need to be involved in this and need to be speaking to congress about our needs for comprehensive reform.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And you've indicated that your group has four main goals for immigration reform, and that's a guest worker program and employment eligibility verification, resolutions and status of these 12 million illegal immigrants that are already here. Can you talk to us about how you want those to be than of handled? How are you going to go about talking about those and raising awareness about those issues?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, the issue is complex. It's not a simple black and white, knee-jerk kind of solution. That's the problem is we've had laws on the books that really don't address the complex realities of labor economics, growth, employment and border security. So we've adopted a set of general principles that we believe need to be incorporated in the law that we hope and urgently require from the 110th congress. So there are a lot of specifics in all of that that have to be worked out, you know, in the political environment, in Washington. And we hope to influence our delegation here in Arizona and elsewhere to use really good judgment and to work hard to get an effective long-term solution for our country, for our economy, for our border, and for the employees that work for us.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. So those four main goals are basically a launching platform to focus on.

Sheridan Bailey:
Correct. Yeah.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. To what extent are you going to deal with or do you feel you'll have to deal with or address the extreme rhetoric with this debate that submerged on both sides?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, you know, the phenomena of polarity in our political system exists in part because we employers and others have been too busy dealing with the daily chores of life of running our businesses and so forth to be more involved. And we need to be more involved in communicating the mandate of the people, the realities of what's going on to our elected representatives. So I think merely by getting involved, by calling our elected representatives, writing, having meetings with them, that we'll begin to see a shift in the way congress responds to these issues. When they know that such a significant part of their electorate, the people that engineer the economic health of this country are seriously and urgently concerned with how congress deals with these issues, then I think they'll respond appropriately. That's the way the system is supposed to work. We just need to be involved.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And you believe it's vital for immigration reform to happen this year? Why this year?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, there's ever-increasing frustration. Rightly so on the part of people across the spectrum with respect to the lack of security of our borders, the ways in which we can imagine and risk infiltration from terrorists who intend to do us harm and our success and managing those threats is directly related to comprehensive reform. How we allocate enforcement resources is terribly important. And right now we've got them bogged down in catching people who our economy needs to support our prosperity and health of our businesses and our economy. So there's a complex set of issues that need to be addressed in this 110th congress. And we hope to make our voice and our will heard in the next months as this debate goes on here in the summer and before the fall of this year.

Matthew Whitaker:
Certainly folks are going to be tuned in to what you're doing and certainly interested in that as we move forward in this debate. I want to thank you for joining us on horizon this evening. Wonderful information.

Sheridan Bailey:
Thank you, matt. Glad to be here.

Matthew Whitaker:
22 officers from around Arizona this week joined the ranks of 290 officers nationwide would have completed 287-g training. 287-g training refers to a seconds of immigration law that allows state and local police to enter into agreements with the department of homeland security. The agreements allow those local officers to perform immigration enforcement duties. The officers also receive five weeks of training in immigration law, civil rights, and intercultural relations. That training session is compressed, normally being done in 16 weeks. I'll talk to the head of the Arizona Department of Public Safety about the training. Mike Sauceda tells us about the graduation.

Mike Sauceda:
It's not your typical graduation scene. 10 from the -- just completed their 287-g training. Vice-president Sergeant Peter Zededa of the department of corrections explains what the training is.

Peter Zededa:
What exactly is 287-g, you may be wondering? Under 287-g, the section of immigration law, I provide state and local law enforcement with training and subsequent authorization to identify, process and when appropriate detain immigration offenders they encounter during the regular daily law enforcement activity. In order for good law enforcement to be successful, effective communication and cooperation are paramount factors. Those components were present in our classroom environment as we aided and challenged one another to excel and succeed.

Mike Sauceda:
Roger Ferguson of the Arizona Department of Public Safety was one of those graduating.

Roger Ferguson:
This was quite an experience for us. I've been a police officer for 17-years. And I've never been exposed to anything quite so involved in all my life. We had to take tests that we had to pay attention. And I must admit, at times that was kind of hard. I did learn how to do some new things with my cell phone. But we all got through. [Laughter] I was given this opportunity to address you by my peers, my fellow workers. And I just want to tell you that none of us take this mission that we're going to be on lightly. We note impact of it. We know the importance of how to use these new tools. And we also understand the human element involved in this situation involving immigration. Some of these people are victimized to horrible situations. [Applause]

Mike Sauceda:
Congratulations for those graduating officers made up a good part of the ceremony.

Troy Henley:
I want to thank you, the officers and detectives in this class, for all your hard work. And to thank you for being willing and able to assist I.C.E., both the office of investigations and the office of detention and removal, in our enforcement mission. By assisting us in that mission, it is my belief that you will make Arizona a safer and a better place to live.

Dora Schriro:
At this point in time, you are responsible for expediting the deportation of 820 eligible criminal aliens back to their home and country. And today you have saved Arizona taxpayers nearly $10 million. $9.7 million to be exact. Through the expeditious moving of that population back to the appropriate jurisdiction.

Brian Sands:
We're faced with many challenges in this area. It appears overwhelming at times, but you're the group of people here that I want to congratulate that took this challenge and has accepted it and has succeeded in getting through this tough course.

Matthew Whitaker:
With me now to tell us more about the 287 h-g train something Roger Vanderpool, the director of the Arizona Department of public safety. Thank you for joining us.

Roger Vanderpool:
Thank you for having me.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you tell us more about the training that officers received?

Roger Vanderpool:
Right. The 287-g training really takes the training that a border patrol or an I.C.E. officer would receive over a 16-week period, condenses that down into five weeks. And it makes that officer, our officer, aware of the immigration laws, also gives them even extra training on civil rights issues, allows them to be able to access some of the databases that immigration and custom enforcement uses to help determine whether a person is in the united states legally or not.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Why is it important for them to have this training? Can you speak to that?

Roger Vanderpool:
Well, it's very complex. Immigration law is a very complex issue. And the average police officer -- it's not something that we train. Not something that we do on a daily basis. It's something that we have left as part of their duties to the federal authorities. We're seeing that with the increase in people trying to get into the United States, criminal syndicates are becoming involved. And to dismantle those criminal syndicates, we have to partner with the federal government, with the federal authorities. And we have to have those tools to be able to attack those criminal syndicates.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, the sheriff's office, they pick up the smuggled and the smugglers. Would DPS be doing the same thing?

Roger Vanderpool:
We again are going to attack as we have been those criminal syndicates. And we have a M.O.U. with I.C.E., with the immigration and customs enforcement. And mart of that agreement is to attack those criminal organizations, the criminal enterprises that are profiting out of smuggling both people, drugs, guns, weapons. So we are really going after those heads of organizations. We want to cut off the head of the snake.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well, can you tell us more of the specifics about how the officers will use their training for our viewers? I mean, what sort of specific things will they be doing?

Roger Vanderpool:
First ten, these are all part of our gang enforcement task force. And many of the gangs we're dealing with have undocumented aliens in them. And so that's where we're concentrating our initial concentration of officers. Plus as part of the state gang task force last year, the legislature added a piece to the gitem, the gang intelligence and now immigration team enforcement. That we would have those officers focus on immigration border crimes. Such that we're utilizing those. So those detectives will be utilizing that 287-g training and investigating crimes related to gangs, border violence, and smuggling.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well now, and here's the rub. Will you be receiving any extra federal dollars for all those new things, responsibilities that you have?

Roger Vanderpool:
No. No. The extra money we've gotten in our budget has been all through the state.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, will the ten officers that are going to be doing the immigration work be taken off of their regular duties?

Roger Vanderpool:
No. This was part of -- they're all part of the gang task force right now, anyhow. So this is just part of what we're assigning them to do, anyhow. But they now have extra tools. We eventually hope to have about 100 officers trained.

Matthew Whitaker:
100 officers.

Roger Vanderpool:
Yes.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, can you talk to us about -- how important is this? I mean this training. Can you just speak to how important is this training for you in what you seek to accomplish?

Roger Vanderpool:
Well, the importance of this training -- again, this whole program is part of Governor Napolitano's secure Arizona initiative. And the training allows that officer to determine again whether an individual is in the country illegally or not. Oftentimes people will say, yes, I'm in the country. And an officer may have reasons to believe that individual is not. But without having the opportunity to access some of the databases that again federal government has, I.C.E., and to determine whether the person is here -- because actually the person can be here legally in many different ways. And the average street cop is not going to be able to figure that out. And the last thing we want to do is violate someone's civil rights.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Wonderful. Thank you very much for joining us and talking about it. Very, very, very important issue.

Roger Vanderpool:
Thank you for having me.

Matthew Whitaker:
All right.

Larry Lemmons:
It's been a busy week at the Arizona state legislature. A log jam in the state senate on the state budget is broken. A bill making it harder to sue ER doctors fails in the house. And the governor vetoes a bill dealing with illegal immigration. Those stories and more on the Journalists' Roundtable Friday at 7:00 on "Horizon."

Mathew Whitaker:
Thank you for joining us this evening on Horizon. I'm Matthew Whitaker. Good night.

DPS Director


  • We talk to the director of the Arizona Department of Public Safety, Roger Vanderpool, about issues affecting the agency. Vanderpool will talk about how the DPS handles human smugglers and efforts to get more money for DPS officers.
Guests:
  • Dawn McLaren - Economist, Arizona State University
  • Sheridan Bailey - Co-founder and President, Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform
  • Roger Vanderpool - Director, Arizona Department of Public Safety
Category: Immigration

View Transcript
Matthew Whitaker:
Tonight on "Horizon," is tough enforcement causing apprehensions of illegal immigration to drop? An economist gives her answers. An ad campaign is starting to call for comprehensive immigration reform. Learn about that. 22 officers have graduated to help immigration enforcement. The head of police tells us more. That's coming up next on horizon.

Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by contributions from the friends of eight, members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

Matthew Whitaker:
Good evening and welcome to horizon. I'm Matthew Whitaker. Recently apprehensions of illegal aliens at the U.S.-Mexico border have dropped 27 percent. President Bush credits 6,000 National Guard troops placed at the border. But an Arizona State University economist says not so fast. She says a weakening economy should get credit for the drop in apprehensions. Here now to tell us more about her research is A.S.U. economist Dawn McLaren.

Matthew Whitaker:
Thank you for joining us. President Bush is touting his efforts as sort of curtailing the stream at the border. But you're saying there are economic reasons, profound once.

Dawn McLaren:
Exactly. In fact, I've mentioned if I were an editorial cartoonist I would draw a little cartoon of the border with some very fierce border patrol agents staring across the border and with this great big grizzly bear with its clause ought and "economy" written across its chest. Because the economy is so huge and so powerful that it is a huge draw for people. For decades and decades immigrants have been crossing that border illegally, dodging border patrol agents, dodging our policies, to be able to get here and work.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you tell us about you research and how you track illegal immigration activity and how it affects the economy?

Dawn McLaren:
I've got a 16-year history showing that if you seasonally readjust it, every time the economy goes down, about 12 months before you'll see apprehensions drop. When the economy starts doing well, about 12 months above you'll see apprehensions rise. And that's on a seasonally-adjusted basis. And sure enough, back in November and December of 2005 we sass turning points. The peak was starting to head downwards on apprehensions at the border. And sure enough, we see G.D.P. going from 5.6 percent on a real basis last year to 1.3 percent this year. So they were right again.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, to what degree does the drop or the slowdown in the housing market and other industries that are impacted by illegal immigration in fact impact this issue?

Dawn McLaren:
This is the interesting thing. Illegal immigrants are actually in a diverse set of industries. They're in construction and hospitality and many years. It used to be they were concentrated in agriculture but that has changed over the last 20, 30 years. Now they are a much more diverse set of industries than they used to be. And our housing market here, the changes in our housing markets certainly have affected GDP. But we saw the first little indicator was that drop in apprehensions.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. So we are seeing a decline that's related to it to some degree?

Dawn McLaren:
Yes. In fact, that's the first indicator. A number of months later the purchasing manager's index also showed a slow down. Then the net performer based on the yield curve showed a slowdown in GDP It just so happened that that change in immigration was one of the very first indicators. And it's because they're so highly networked. They communicate with each other. They come when there are jobs here.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. That was the next question I was going to ask you. The impact of the extended networks of family and friends that are already here that serve as a liaison and conduit to these jobs. Can you speak to that, how that factors into the equation?

Dawn McLaren:
Yes. Well, it's been known for a long time they do tend to travel in groups and travel, for instance people from the same town tend to travel together. They will call home and say, look, this is the best time to come across, because this is where we need people on our crew. And they can come over here and know that people that they can stay with, people they can communicate with. And it's just, like I said, a very highly network. So when you drop a little pebble in that pool, the ripples can be seen quite easily. That's why it's such an early indicator for us.

Matthew Whitaker:
Do you get an angry response from people when you say that it's about the economy and not necessarily about enforcement?

Dawn McLaren:
Not yet. I think people accept. This I think it's been known for a long time. For instance, that when we had a net loss of Mexican migrants when there were fewer Mexican migrants coming across than going back they actually had more going back was in the great depression. The great depression was when we didn't have very many be jobs over here for anybody.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you speak to the historical presitent? Because in the green room earlier we were talking about this friend about when the economy slows down, it has all sorts of implications. This basically has historical roots. We're not reinventing the wheel in essence here.

Dawn McLaren:
Correct. This is something that we've known for a long time. We know they come for jobs and because our economy is able to provide a higher wage, all of this type of thing. It's not necessarily for a better standard of living or to establish a life over here but to come here and work and send money home so they can establish a better life back home.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, can you tell us, what motivated you to take this particular approach for this topic with your research?

Dawn McLaren:
Well, a number of years ago -- going, back in about 1995 or earlier -- I read a paper having to do with -- it was an accusation of border patrol. Saying border patrol turns their back at certain points and lets immigrants come across the border because they know they are needed in the agriculture field. I read this with great interest. I thought, wow, this is interesting stuff. I don't know the paper if they proved it was true or not. I don't think they did. I think it's a matter of a seasonal thing. If you look there is a seasonality to it. When I look at the numbers I take that seasonality out statistically to make sure I'm not looking at things that may just be a fluctuation because it happens to be summertime or fluctuation because there happens to be a crop that needs to be picked.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And so "it's the economy, stupid" to some degree it's the economy and the economy is very powerful.

Dawn McLaren:
Look how large our economy is. And look at the fact that we need people of this particular group at this point. You know, in times before we needed immigrants from perhaps the more educated immigrants. Right now we have a demographic problem where we simply do not have enough of the young people who are out mowing the neighbor's lawn, shoveling the driveway when it's snowy out, that sort of thing.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well, professor Mclaren, thanks for joining us on horizon.

Dawn McLaren:
Thank you for having mere here.

Matthew Whiaker:
A newly formed business group will start running TV and radio ads tomorrow pushing for comprehensive immigration reform. They would like to see congress pass a bill that has enforced border security, a guest worker program, employment eligibility verification, and the resolution of the legal status of the 12 million undocumented immigrants already in the country. I'll talk to the president and cofounder of the group. But first, here are the ads that will be run by the group.

Commercial speaker:
I build homes for a living. If I'm going to build you a good, affordable home I need workers.

Commercial speaker:
If they're going to depend on me for a clean hotel room ready when you check, in I need workers.

Commercial speaker:
You want -- just the way you like it you need workers.

Commercial speaker:
I guess if I want fresh vegetables, beef and dairy products at a price my family can afford, farmers need workers, too.

Commercial speaker:
Let's support a solution that includes border security and work permits. Call congress today. Paid for by Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform.

(Commercial)Sheridan Bailey:
My name is Sheridan bailey and I need workers at my steel plant. I've raised wages 25\% this year, but I still can't find enough qualified workers when I need them. Congress must act now to control our borders. We need a realistic guest worker program so America's small business and our economy can grow.

Commercial Speaker:
Call your congressman today at 202-224-3121. And support immigration reform now. Paid for by Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform.

Matthew Whitaker:
Here now is the cofounder and president of Arizona employers for immigration reform, Sheridan Bailey. Sheridan, thank you very much for joining us.

Sheridan Bailey:
I'm really glad to be here.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you begin by telling us about your organization, how it was formed and who makes up the organization?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, we're a bottom-up, grassroots coalition of broad business interests from construction, hospitality, restaurant, agriculture and others, that have a deep -- a necessary requirement for manual and semi-skilled workers that we need to keep our businesses growing. So we started in December when we realized that congress wasn't hearing from the economic interests of this country, and that they were operating in a vacuum without our issues, our stories, our realities, that we're not being expressed.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, tell us, what do you seek to accomplish with your commercials? I mean, we saw it earlier. What do you hope that folks get out of that?

Sheridan Bailey:
Generally we want to raise awareness amongst the population in general, but also with respect to other employers. We represent probably at this point about 100 employers here in Arizona, maybe 15,000 workers. But there are a lot more people with a lot more at stake that need to be involved in this and need to be speaking to congress about our needs for comprehensive reform.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And you've indicated that your group has four main goals for immigration reform, and that's a guest worker program and employment eligibility verification, resolutions and status of these 12 million illegal immigrants that are already here. Can you talk to us about how you want those to be than of handled? How are you going to go about talking about those and raising awareness about those issues?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, the issue is complex. It's not a simple black and white, knee-jerk kind of solution. That's the problem is we've had laws on the books that really don't address the complex realities of labor economics, growth, employment and border security. So we've adopted a set of general principles that we believe need to be incorporated in the law that we hope and urgently require from the 110th congress. So there are a lot of specifics in all of that that have to be worked out, you know, in the political environment, in Washington. And we hope to influence our delegation here in Arizona and elsewhere to use really good judgment and to work hard to get an effective long-term solution for our country, for our economy, for our border, and for the employees that work for us.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. So those four main goals are basically a launching platform to focus on.

Sheridan Bailey:
Correct. Yeah.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. To what extent are you going to deal with or do you feel you'll have to deal with or address the extreme rhetoric with this debate that submerged on both sides?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, you know, the phenomena of polarity in our political system exists in part because we employers and others have been too busy dealing with the daily chores of life of running our businesses and so forth to be more involved. And we need to be more involved in communicating the mandate of the people, the realities of what's going on to our elected representatives. So I think merely by getting involved, by calling our elected representatives, writing, having meetings with them, that we'll begin to see a shift in the way congress responds to these issues. When they know that such a significant part of their electorate, the people that engineer the economic health of this country are seriously and urgently concerned with how congress deals with these issues, then I think they'll respond appropriately. That's the way the system is supposed to work. We just need to be involved.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. And you believe it's vital for immigration reform to happen this year? Why this year?

Sheridan Bailey:
Well, there's ever-increasing frustration. Rightly so on the part of people across the spectrum with respect to the lack of security of our borders, the ways in which we can imagine and risk infiltration from terrorists who intend to do us harm and our success and managing those threats is directly related to comprehensive reform. How we allocate enforcement resources is terribly important. And right now we've got them bogged down in catching people who our economy needs to support our prosperity and health of our businesses and our economy. So there's a complex set of issues that need to be addressed in this 110th congress. And we hope to make our voice and our will heard in the next months as this debate goes on here in the summer and before the fall of this year.

Matthew Whitaker:
Certainly folks are going to be tuned in to what you're doing and certainly interested in that as we move forward in this debate. I want to thank you for joining us on horizon this evening. Wonderful information.

Sheridan Bailey:
Thank you, matt. Glad to be here.

Matthew Whitaker:
22 officers from around Arizona this week joined the ranks of 290 officers nationwide would have completed 287-g training. 287-g training refers to a seconds of immigration law that allows state and local police to enter into agreements with the department of homeland security. The agreements allow those local officers to perform immigration enforcement duties. The officers also receive five weeks of training in immigration law, civil rights, and intercultural relations. That training session is compressed, normally being done in 16 weeks. I'll talk to the head of the Arizona Department of Public Safety about the training. Mike Sauceda tells us about the graduation.

Mike Sauceda:
It's not your typical graduation scene. 10 from the -- just completed their 287-g training. Vice-president Sergeant Peter Zededa of the department of corrections explains what the training is.

Peter Zededa:
What exactly is 287-g, you may be wondering? Under 287-g, the section of immigration law, I provide state and local law enforcement with training and subsequent authorization to identify, process and when appropriate detain immigration offenders they encounter during the regular daily law enforcement activity. In order for good law enforcement to be successful, effective communication and cooperation are paramount factors. Those components were present in our classroom environment as we aided and challenged one another to excel and succeed.

Mike Sauceda:
Roger Ferguson of the Arizona Department of Public Safety was one of those graduating.

Roger Ferguson:
This was quite an experience for us. I've been a police officer for 17-years. And I've never been exposed to anything quite so involved in all my life. We had to take tests that we had to pay attention. And I must admit, at times that was kind of hard. I did learn how to do some new things with my cell phone. But we all got through. [Laughter] I was given this opportunity to address you by my peers, my fellow workers. And I just want to tell you that none of us take this mission that we're going to be on lightly. We note impact of it. We know the importance of how to use these new tools. And we also understand the human element involved in this situation involving immigration. Some of these people are victimized to horrible situations. [Applause]

Mike Sauceda:
Congratulations for those graduating officers made up a good part of the ceremony.

Troy Henley:
I want to thank you, the officers and detectives in this class, for all your hard work. And to thank you for being willing and able to assist I.C.E., both the office of investigations and the office of detention and removal, in our enforcement mission. By assisting us in that mission, it is my belief that you will make Arizona a safer and a better place to live.

Dora Schriro:
At this point in time, you are responsible for expediting the deportation of 820 eligible criminal aliens back to their home and country. And today you have saved Arizona taxpayers nearly $10 million. $9.7 million to be exact. Through the expeditious moving of that population back to the appropriate jurisdiction.

Brian Sands:
We're faced with many challenges in this area. It appears overwhelming at times, but you're the group of people here that I want to congratulate that took this challenge and has accepted it and has succeeded in getting through this tough course.

Matthew Whitaker:
With me now to tell us more about the 287 h-g train something Roger Vanderpool, the director of the Arizona Department of public safety. Thank you for joining us.

Roger Vanderpool:
Thank you for having me.

Matthew Whitaker:
Can you tell us more about the training that officers received?

Roger Vanderpool:
Right. The 287-g training really takes the training that a border patrol or an I.C.E. officer would receive over a 16-week period, condenses that down into five weeks. And it makes that officer, our officer, aware of the immigration laws, also gives them even extra training on civil rights issues, allows them to be able to access some of the databases that immigration and custom enforcement uses to help determine whether a person is in the united states legally or not.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Why is it important for them to have this training? Can you speak to that?

Roger Vanderpool:
Well, it's very complex. Immigration law is a very complex issue. And the average police officer -- it's not something that we train. Not something that we do on a daily basis. It's something that we have left as part of their duties to the federal authorities. We're seeing that with the increase in people trying to get into the United States, criminal syndicates are becoming involved. And to dismantle those criminal syndicates, we have to partner with the federal government, with the federal authorities. And we have to have those tools to be able to attack those criminal syndicates.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, the sheriff's office, they pick up the smuggled and the smugglers. Would DPS be doing the same thing?

Roger Vanderpool:
We again are going to attack as we have been those criminal syndicates. And we have a M.O.U. with I.C.E., with the immigration and customs enforcement. And mart of that agreement is to attack those criminal organizations, the criminal enterprises that are profiting out of smuggling both people, drugs, guns, weapons. So we are really going after those heads of organizations. We want to cut off the head of the snake.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well, can you tell us more of the specifics about how the officers will use their training for our viewers? I mean, what sort of specific things will they be doing?

Roger Vanderpool:
First ten, these are all part of our gang enforcement task force. And many of the gangs we're dealing with have undocumented aliens in them. And so that's where we're concentrating our initial concentration of officers. Plus as part of the state gang task force last year, the legislature added a piece to the gitem, the gang intelligence and now immigration team enforcement. That we would have those officers focus on immigration border crimes. Such that we're utilizing those. So those detectives will be utilizing that 287-g training and investigating crimes related to gangs, border violence, and smuggling.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Well now, and here's the rub. Will you be receiving any extra federal dollars for all those new things, responsibilities that you have?

Roger Vanderpool:
No. No. The extra money we've gotten in our budget has been all through the state.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, will the ten officers that are going to be doing the immigration work be taken off of their regular duties?

Roger Vanderpool:
No. This was part of -- they're all part of the gang task force right now, anyhow. So this is just part of what we're assigning them to do, anyhow. But they now have extra tools. We eventually hope to have about 100 officers trained.

Matthew Whitaker:
100 officers.

Roger Vanderpool:
Yes.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Now, can you talk to us about -- how important is this? I mean this training. Can you just speak to how important is this training for you in what you seek to accomplish?

Roger Vanderpool:
Well, the importance of this training -- again, this whole program is part of Governor Napolitano's secure Arizona initiative. And the training allows that officer to determine again whether an individual is in the country illegally or not. Oftentimes people will say, yes, I'm in the country. And an officer may have reasons to believe that individual is not. But without having the opportunity to access some of the databases that again federal government has, I.C.E., and to determine whether the person is here -- because actually the person can be here legally in many different ways. And the average street cop is not going to be able to figure that out. And the last thing we want to do is violate someone's civil rights.

Matthew Whitaker:
Okay. Wonderful. Thank you very much for joining us and talking about it. Very, very, very important issue.

Roger Vanderpool:
Thank you for having me.

Matthew Whitaker:
All right.

Larry Lemmons:
It's been a busy week at the Arizona state legislature. A log jam in the state senate on the state budget is broken. A bill making it harder to sue ER doctors fails in the house. And the governor vetoes a bill dealing with illegal immigration. Those stories and more on the Journalists' Roundtable Friday at 7:00 on "Horizon."

Mathew Whitaker:
Thank you for joining us this evening on Horizon. I'm Matthew Whitaker. Good night.

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