Horizon, Host: Ted Simons

January 29, 2007


Host: Jose Cardenas

Admiral John G. Morgan


  • The Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Information, Plans & Strategy is in Phoenix to hear feedback about the U.S. Navys future. A Conversation with the Country, Maritime Strategy Project will be featured in several cities. To participate in the survey, visit and click on A Conversation with the country.
Guests:
  • Michael Bidwell - Super Bowl committee member and Vice-President General Counsel of the Arizona Cardinals
  • John G. Morgan Jr. - Vice Admiral, U.S. Navy
  • Jay Tibshraeny - Republican State Senator


View Transcript
Jose Cardenas:
Tonight on Horizon, one year from now The University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale will be hosting The Super Bowl. We look at the work being done by the Super Bowl host committee. Also the U.S. Navy wants to know what you think about the future of the Navy, a conversation with Vice Admiral John G. Morgan. And a bill introduced into legislature would make mortgage fraud a felony. That's next on Horizon.

Announcer:
Horizon is made possible by contributions from the friends of eight, members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

Jose Cardenas:
Good evening and thanks for joining us tonight on Horizon. I'm Jose Cardenas. As Super Bowl festivities begin in Miami, several members of the Arizona Super Bowl host committee are attending. They want to find out what works, what doesn't, and come up with new ideas for Super Bowl XLII. That game, of course, will be played at University of Phoenix Stadium February 3, 2008. Joining me now to talk about that and the potential for another Super Bowl is committee member Michael Bidwell, who also happens to be Vice-President General Counsel of the Arizona Cardinals. Thank you for joining us on Horizon.

Michael Bidwell:
Jose thank you for having me.

Jose Cardenas: Now we do want to talk about the Super Bowl that's coming up and perhaps the one we may get thereafter. But first how we got to where we are. Can you give us a quick summary?

Michael Bidwell:
Sure, as part of the voter-approved funding for the new University of Phoenix Stadium, we wanted to bring the Super Bowl back to the Phoenix area. And I think everybody in the NFL enjoyed the Super Bowl that was here back in 1996. Great hotels, great weather, the Sun Devil Stadium, the league determined, was just not going to be sufficient to have another Super Bowl. So as part of passing the stadium and building the stadium back in October of 2004, Governor Napolitano, Mayor Elaine Scruggs from the City of Glendale, and others and I asked for and competed for Super Bowl XLII to be played in February of 2008. The league awarded it to Arizona. And so since that time we've been working very very hard with the community with a number of different members from the community to prepare for Super Bowl XLII.

Jose Cardenas:
And I should have mentioned that I am involved in the host committee activities. But speaking of that committee, you have a number of members there, you have a staff there in Miami right now. What are they doing and what are they looking for?

Michael Bidwell:
Well that's right, Jose. Today actually a number of folks from the host committee and from cities around the valley, including the City of Glendale, flew down to Miami. And we've got a team of people there. Actually close to 130 people are going to be going down as part of the Arizona Super Bowl host committee effort. And it's all led up by our Chairman, Mike Kennedy, who's a local lawyer in town doing a great job of leading this. He's volunteer as chairman of the committee, also our CEO Debbie Wardrup, as well as our President Bob Sullivan, who are doing a great job. They are organizing and they are going down to see how Miami is doing it from a hospitality standpoint, hotel standpoint, transportation, public safety, the stadium, and the practice facilities. They're trying to make sure everything is covered so when we host the event a year from now here in Phoenix, that we're going to be a well prepared and ready to go.

Jose Cardenas:
And of course they've been looking at a number of these issues for some time now. Can you tell us more specifically what are some of the particular issues in terms of facilities for the teams and the media activities that precede the actual hosting of the Super Bowl?

Michael Bidwell:
Well as you can imagine it's a huge endeavor. It's the number one sporting event in the United States. It's prepared as you know four or five years out in advance. So there's a whole lot of concentration with the media, with fans. Of course, we don't know until a couple weeks before which teams will be in it. But a lot of companies and sponsors go down and bring a lot of people to the Super Bowl each year because they can plan around it. So what they're doing is they're working -- we've got a group from the hotel industry that are looking at how the hotels are handling the Super Bowl activities from public safety, number of people from public safety from Arizona who are going down to interact with the public safety officials down in Miami as well as the stadium folks, as well as a number of different other areas. Because there are a whole number of things we need to look at. But when you look at everything from the stadium to the practice facilities, we've got to make sure we've got two great practice facilities for the AFC and NFC teams to practice it. We have to have plenty of hotels for the families and fans who are going to attend the game. A whole lot of activity and coordinate nation. As well as all the events leading up to the Super Bowl there'll be literally hundreds of events that go on. Some of them are sanctioned by the NFL, some of them are sanctioned by the host committee. And others are just events that don't have any direct association with the Super Bowl but are attending by fans of the NFL and of the Super Bowl.

Jose Cardenas:
Let's talk about that aspect of it. After the Super Bowl host committee gets back here and starts working on the actual event for us in 2008, what kinds of things can the public expect to see for that roughly one year period between now and then?

Michael Bidwell:
Well, I think it's always an exciting thing. At the end of the game I'd expect the NFL will announce the next year's Super Bowl will be hosted here in Arizona at the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale. And my sense is then Arizona will then be on the clock. And I know the host committee has a number of things they're going to roll out, you know, once we get ready. Because we've been around the clock, we're up and we're getting ready. So I know Mike Kennedy and Debbie Wardrup and Bob Sullivan have been working on a number of things. So all the eyes and focus will then shift to Arizona. And they're going to be prepared to really start educating the community, but also sports fans and NFL fans what to expect next year right here in Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
And as I understand it, in one respect Arizona will be a little different than some of the preceding Super Bowls; you had Houston, Detroit, Jacksonville which were focused on small regions or cities. And this is the Arizona Super Bowl. Can you explain what that means?

Michael Bidwell: It's really about a statewide effort to host the Super Bowl. We have so many great things. Obviously, all the activities happening in Glendale but throughout the rest of the valley. East valley, Scottsdale, Phoenix, so many activities as well as going down southern Arizona and Tucson area, northern Arizona. Really I think there'll be an effort to try to tie in the whole state so that when fans come here they're encouraged -- and businesses come here to be a part of the Super Bowl, they're encouraged to maybe spend a couple extra days and either go south or go north and explore our state and learn all the great things going on right here in Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
Michael, it was commonly stated that the Fiesta Bowl, the very successful Fiesta Bowl and Bowl Championship series games were kind of dry runs for the 2008 Super Bowl. What did you and what did the committee learn from those events?

Michael Bidwell:
I think they were dry runs because they were big events, but I think the Super Bowl will be so much bigger than the BCS National Championship game. There was a report I read where the city of Glendale was expecting 300,000 people, three times the amount of people that went to the BCS game. It will be a much bigger event. The NFL will have done 41 of these events and they're bigger and bigger. I think what you're going to see is a real coordinated effort. It's literally going to be the largest televised event going on probably in history. It seems like each new Super Bowl has a higher audience than the year before. It will be extraordinary what goes on out there.

Jose Cardenas:
Speaking of economical impact is in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Michael Bidwell:
Well, the economic impact for Super Bowl XLII we estimate to be about $400 million. It will be broadcast to over 160 different countries and about I think 80 different languages. So it's really an exciting thing for us, because it's not just the economic impact but it gives us great exposure to our state. The NFL is going to be organizing itself for the bid for the 2011 Super Bowl. And we've been working closely with the host committee members and with the staff to try to determine if that's something that we want to put. In and I think all eyes are pointing for let's put in another bid to try to get the 2011 game. It's highly unusual, though, for the league to issue a Super Bowl to a city before they've played their last Super Bowl. So we've got some good competition. It looks like Indianapolis is going be a community that focuses on that Super Bowl in 2011 as well as the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

Jose Cardenas:
Michael Bidwell enjoy the 2007 Super Bowel good luck on 2008 and let's hope we get 2011. Thank you very much.

Jose Cardenas:
the United States Navy is developing a new maritime strategy. To that end representatives are asking residents what they believe should be in the future of the U.S. Navy. At the Hyatt Regency Larry Lemmons cause up with Vice Admiral John G. Morgan Jr. he is.

Larry Lemmons:
Well it's not often we get the Navy in our landlocked desert here in Phoenix. I know that you're traveling around with this program. This seems to be a fairly unique approach. Tell us about conversations with the country.

John Morgan:
It is a unique approach, Larry. It's really about the understanding that America really cares about their military, they care about their future, and they care about their way of life. And so as we look to the future we wanted to come and listen to them. We want today to come to listen to America. We think we can learn from them. At times with we think we can help educate. That's why we started this project.

Larry Lemmons:
The last maritime strategy was done in the 80's, is that correct?

John Morgan:
Yes, the last recognizable maritime strategy really was dealt -- was really intended to deal with the Soviet Union.

Larry Lemmons:
Exactly. So what would be different than -- the Cold War has ended obviously. Now, of course, it's a completely different kind of reality. What sort of things are you trying to determine in terms of defense, deterrence, that sort of thing?

John Morgan:
We have evolved from the Cold War strategy that was the maritime strategy against the Soviet Union. And there have been vision statements, national security statements along the way. But what's causing us to rethink the maritime strategy is this: there's been profound change in the world. There's change in security relationships, there are new factors. There's change in financial markets. There's change in climate. There's change in the competition for energy sources. There's change in social cohesion around the world. That myriad of changes is causing us to say, do we have it right for the future? Do we have the right strategy? And that's what this is about as well.

Larry Lemmons:
Considering the realities today, is it sometimes difficult to try to justify a budget today considering we have a war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you find sort of a reason for existence issue?

John Morgan:
No. We're really looking beyond today and tomorrow. America has always been a sea power. 90\% of the world's commerce flows across the seas. In fact, the entire planet is 70\% water so. This is not about today, it's really about our future interests.

Larry Lemmons:
I know historically the Navy has always been involved in protecting global commerce, for example. Can you foresee, then, a wider role for the Navy in terms of protecting American interests abroad then?

John Morgan:
Yes. I think America has always been a country of global reach, of global interests, access to global markets, of global power and influence. And I see that America will remain interested in those elements of our national power for a long time to come. I think with all this profound change, we're looking at is there a need to have a new logic and a new rhetoric? And that's our responsibility is to be able to explain why our maritime security needs will continue into the future in this new framework of a new logic and a new rhetoric.

Larry Lemmons:
I know that China is building up its Navy and the British are pulling back. Do you see, then, in terms of potential problems ahead looking at China, for example, and seeing that as something that we might watch?

John Morgan:
We're seeing different trends. We're seeing in some areas navies getting smaller, but in some areas navies are getting larger. You mentioned the Chinese navy. They're building a very very capable navy. They're particularly emphasizing construction of very sophisticated submarines. And we're simply asking the question, what is their intent? Clearly it's in I think mankind's interests that China rises peacefully and becomes a responsible member of the global community. And that's certainly what our national interests are as well. That's what we aspire to do as Americans. But why has China elected to build a big navy? Why have they chosen submarines to emphasize? Those are the questions we're beginning to ask. And we need greater insight to it.

Larry Lemmons:
When you think about navy you think about certainly aircraft carriers, battle ships, shooting missiles from those ships, you know, on to the land. You think about air as well, the navy fighters. Can you see it different in the kinds of future that we're looking at to where maybe some of those things might be obsolete? Maybe we might want to change how those things are done?

John Morgan:
well, I think we have to ask that question. I think that's a good question. But we're seeing where the nation is relying upon the navy in ways that most Americans don't see. Let me give you a specific example. Unfortunately we have to rely upon nuclear weapons in this day and age, and we're seeing nuclear weapons proliferate around the world. We're very concerned about that. But today the navy has become the predominant nuclear deterrent in America's arsenal. We've gone away from the days of the triad where we had missiles in silos on land -- which we still do but to a smaller extent -- to B-52's in the air and that triad of weapons in the air, weapons under the sea and weapons in silos, we're moving more toward a reliance upon the Navy. So that's an example of how our arsenal is shifting as the world has changed. And so whether other resources that we have are obsolete, we look to see how adaptive they are, how much they can change over time. And we try to build some resiliency into our designs.

Larry Lemmons:
What sort of philosophies are existing to somehow battle terrorism? I know that's a very difficult thing. But the Cole of course was attacked. So what is the Navy thinking in terms of these much smaller units in defending against that?

John Morgan:
Well, there's a significant and important role for the Navy in fight terrorism. If you were to look at how many Navy people are in the central command region in the Persian Gulf area, we've got roughly about 24,000 Navy people in that area. Half of them are on land, a significant change for us. We're seeing that there are some very unique navy capabilities and talents that can be used against the war on terror. And so we're trying to help wherever we possibly can, whether it's in places like the situation that's ongoing in Iraq today and Afghanistan, but also how to better protect our smaller units around the world.

Larry Lemmons: Now, the first conversation was at the Naval College. This is at the second one. How many other cities will you visit. What will ultimately be done with that information?

John Morgan:
Larry, we're going to six other cities. We're going to Atlanta, Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, and San Francisco. And we've chosen those cities carefully. We didn't want to go to cities that had a predominant Navy population. We really wanted to broaden and diversify the opinions that we're getting. What will be done with that insight is one, as I said, we're going to listen. We're certainly going to learn. And from those insights it will help us craft the maritime strategy needed of and for our time. And oh, by the way, we also want to try to help educate along the way.

Larry Lemmons:
Will the information then be ready by the summer?

John Morgan:
We think we'll be in a position this summer to be able to pull all of our analysis that's been done, all of our gaming and simulations, all of the information and insights that we've gained, we hope to be able to coalesce that in the summer. And I would anticipate some kind of smooth product in early fall of this year.

Larry Lemmons:
I understand, too, that people can go online and contribute as well?

John Morgan:
We're going to demonstrate that later today through our websites so we can get feedback using that kind of technology, that kind of outreach. And so one of the things that I'm most encouraged about the process is that we've insisted that it be very open, very transparent, very inclusive. We're going to archive good ideas. We may agree and disagree, but we never want to fall prey to the criticism that we didn't listen to a credible voice.

Larry Lemmons:
Thanks, Admiral, for talking with us today.

John Morgan:
Larry, thanks for what you do. I appreciate it.

Jose Cardenas:
If you want to participate in the Navy's survey you'll find a link on our website at azpbs.org.

Jose Cardenas:
Mortgage fraud is becoming more of a problem in Arizona's real estate market. It occurs when all those involved in selling the house collude to inflate the value of the home and pocket the excess cash. A state lawmaker has filed a bill that will make mortgage fraud either a class 4 or class 2 felony. Here now to tell us more about his bill is Republican Senator Jay Tibshraeny of Chandler. Thanks for being on Horizon.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Thanks for having me, Jose.

Jose Cardenas:
First of all explain how this all works. I know there was an article in the paper but your bill actually was in the preparation stages even before that happened.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
This issue of mortgage fraud is pretty much a national issue. Two states have already adopted mortgage fraud statutes, Georgia and Colorado. But it got brought to me by a constituent from Chandler who's in the industry that called to me about it last summer. So I worked on it over the summer and in the fall and had a bill ready to drop a couple weeks ago when I got up one morning and saw a special investigative piece by the "Arizona Republic" dealing with mortgage fraud. So I dropped the bill and we're running with the bill. It deals with the real estate industry specifically residential real estate in different areas of fraud dealing with the lending process.

Jose Cardenas:
Typically how would it work, the fraud?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
A couple of different areas. I mean there's a lot of things to the fraud, there could be a lot of areas. Some specific areas you might be -- areas you might be familiar with, it could be during the appraisal process where the appraiser could be in collusion with the buyer or somebody to really falsely and severely over state the value of the home so the buyer can pull out a lot of cash in the deal, a lot more cash than the home is really worth. That could be one area. That obviously undermines the real estate market. Another area could be, as the Republic reported but that was the cash back that Republic reported -- but they could also over inflate people's income figures, even with the people not knowing it and putting them in a house that they really couldn't financially qualify for. So they inflate those income figures, put people in a house that maybe they really can't afford. And then what happens is that mortgage could go into foreclosure, those people could not afford to make those payments and they'd become victims in that particular instance.

Jose Cardenas:
Now, they would be victims, presumably the mortgage lender might be a victim. How else is society affected by this program?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I think society, specifically our state of Arizona, our economy is run a lot on the real estate industry whether we like it or not. So if we get a false inflation in the real estate industry, specifically residential real estate industry, when we hit one of those valleys it could make it much more severe and a bigger problem. Lenders will be having mortgages on houses that they can't get their money out of because the mortgage is for substantially more than what that house is worth. So it undermines your economy, and it also undermines the integrity of a very important industry to the state of Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
Now, those of us who have bought a home recently or refinanced know that when you sign the application there's this big bold language that says if you see anything false you've violated federal law.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Right.

Jose Cardenas:
How does your bill differ from federal law? What does it add?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I don't have the specifics of federal. There's certain specific federal requirements dealing with lending whether discrimination or false reporting. I do know at the federal level they're looking at doing things specifically with mortgage fraud like I'm doing. Senator Obama from Illinois is introducing or preparing to introduce some legislation. We in Arizona may have been able to prosecute the kind of crimes I'm talking about. But what my bill does is it pulls it into a specific statute, clearly states in the real estate residential industry that if you're doing these things, A,B,C,D, whatever you're doing that is against the law and here's what your penalties are going to be. So I think the feds are on the same track as we. There may be things that are going on under certain laws that is you pull together. But with this being such a big thing in Arizona and obviously nationally if they're looking at it they want to have a specific area that addresses specifically mortgage fraud.

Jose Cardenas:
Now your bill makes a distinction between two levels of penalties. What does it take to go from one penalty level to the other?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I have two levels, you're correct. Class 2 and a class 4. With the class 2 being more severe. Class 4 would be if an individual or people do this maybe on an one-time occasion, knowingly violate the law versus the class 2 which would be more severe penalties, that's for collusion, could be a crime ring, could be an ongoing pattern of defrauding people and committing these crimes. So that would be the differentiation in those two areas.

Jose Cardenas:
And the penalties for class 4 versus class 2?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Class 2 being more severe could be four to ten years in prison, class 4, the less severe, could be 1 1/2 to 3-years in prison if convicted.

Jose Cardenas:
And who does the legislation target? Is it just the seller?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
No. I think it's looking at the whole industry. It would, could be an appraiser, mortgage broker, escrow agent or the buyer. If for example all the speculators that came here may have been committing these crimes and undermining neighborhoods. It could be any of those individuals if they were involved with that intentional fraud.

Jose Cardenas:
Senator we have about 30 seconds or so left. Tell us where the bill stands right now in the legislative process.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Going through the Senate, the bill is. I will have a hearing this week in commerce, then I will need to also go through the judiciary bill in the Senate, hopefully get a hearing on that. Hopefully can get it through the Senate. If I do, it will go over to the House, we'll deal with the House, ultimately get it up to the governor's desk if I'm successful in getting this legislation passed.

Jose Cardenas:
Senator Jay Tibshraeny, thanks for joining us on Horizon.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Thank you.

Announcer: Should photo enforcements like the program that was on Scottsdale section of the Loop 101 freeway be expanded to other highways in our state in we talk about that and other traffic safety issues. Plus Arizona's state parks celebrate 50-years of service, beauty, education and recreation. That's Tuesday on Horizon.

Jose Cardenas:
Wednesday we'll take a look at a new parenting tool for expectant parents. Thursday federal and state taxes will soon come due. We'll tell you what you should know. Friday don't forget to join us for the "Journalists' Roundtable." That's our show for tonight. Thank you for joining us on Horizon. Hope to see you again tomorrow night. Thank you.

Mortgage Fraud


  • state Senator Jay Tibshraeny will talk about the bill hes sponsoring that will make mortgage fraud a felony in Arizona.
Guests:
  • Michael Bidwell - Super Bowl committee member and Vice-President General Counsel of the Arizona Cardinals
  • John G. Morgan Jr. - Vice Admiral, U.S. Navy
  • Jay Tibshraeny - Republican State Senator
Category: Business/Economy

View Transcript
Jose Cardenas:
Tonight on Horizon, one year from now The University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale will be hosting The Super Bowl. We look at the work being done by the Super Bowl host committee. Also the U.S. Navy wants to know what you think about the future of the Navy, a conversation with Vice Admiral John G. Morgan. And a bill introduced into legislature would make mortgage fraud a felony. That's next on Horizon.

Announcer:
Horizon is made possible by contributions from the friends of eight, members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

Jose Cardenas:
Good evening and thanks for joining us tonight on Horizon. I'm Jose Cardenas. As Super Bowl festivities begin in Miami, several members of the Arizona Super Bowl host committee are attending. They want to find out what works, what doesn't, and come up with new ideas for Super Bowl XLII. That game, of course, will be played at University of Phoenix Stadium February 3, 2008. Joining me now to talk about that and the potential for another Super Bowl is committee member Michael Bidwell, who also happens to be Vice-President General Counsel of the Arizona Cardinals. Thank you for joining us on Horizon.

Michael Bidwell:
Jose thank you for having me.

Jose Cardenas: Now we do want to talk about the Super Bowl that's coming up and perhaps the one we may get thereafter. But first how we got to where we are. Can you give us a quick summary?

Michael Bidwell:
Sure, as part of the voter-approved funding for the new University of Phoenix Stadium, we wanted to bring the Super Bowl back to the Phoenix area. And I think everybody in the NFL enjoyed the Super Bowl that was here back in 1996. Great hotels, great weather, the Sun Devil Stadium, the league determined, was just not going to be sufficient to have another Super Bowl. So as part of passing the stadium and building the stadium back in October of 2004, Governor Napolitano, Mayor Elaine Scruggs from the City of Glendale, and others and I asked for and competed for Super Bowl XLII to be played in February of 2008. The league awarded it to Arizona. And so since that time we've been working very very hard with the community with a number of different members from the community to prepare for Super Bowl XLII.

Jose Cardenas:
And I should have mentioned that I am involved in the host committee activities. But speaking of that committee, you have a number of members there, you have a staff there in Miami right now. What are they doing and what are they looking for?

Michael Bidwell:
Well that's right, Jose. Today actually a number of folks from the host committee and from cities around the valley, including the City of Glendale, flew down to Miami. And we've got a team of people there. Actually close to 130 people are going to be going down as part of the Arizona Super Bowl host committee effort. And it's all led up by our Chairman, Mike Kennedy, who's a local lawyer in town doing a great job of leading this. He's volunteer as chairman of the committee, also our CEO Debbie Wardrup, as well as our President Bob Sullivan, who are doing a great job. They are organizing and they are going down to see how Miami is doing it from a hospitality standpoint, hotel standpoint, transportation, public safety, the stadium, and the practice facilities. They're trying to make sure everything is covered so when we host the event a year from now here in Phoenix, that we're going to be a well prepared and ready to go.

Jose Cardenas:
And of course they've been looking at a number of these issues for some time now. Can you tell us more specifically what are some of the particular issues in terms of facilities for the teams and the media activities that precede the actual hosting of the Super Bowl?

Michael Bidwell:
Well as you can imagine it's a huge endeavor. It's the number one sporting event in the United States. It's prepared as you know four or five years out in advance. So there's a whole lot of concentration with the media, with fans. Of course, we don't know until a couple weeks before which teams will be in it. But a lot of companies and sponsors go down and bring a lot of people to the Super Bowl each year because they can plan around it. So what they're doing is they're working -- we've got a group from the hotel industry that are looking at how the hotels are handling the Super Bowl activities from public safety, number of people from public safety from Arizona who are going down to interact with the public safety officials down in Miami as well as the stadium folks, as well as a number of different other areas. Because there are a whole number of things we need to look at. But when you look at everything from the stadium to the practice facilities, we've got to make sure we've got two great practice facilities for the AFC and NFC teams to practice it. We have to have plenty of hotels for the families and fans who are going to attend the game. A whole lot of activity and coordinate nation. As well as all the events leading up to the Super Bowl there'll be literally hundreds of events that go on. Some of them are sanctioned by the NFL, some of them are sanctioned by the host committee. And others are just events that don't have any direct association with the Super Bowl but are attending by fans of the NFL and of the Super Bowl.

Jose Cardenas:
Let's talk about that aspect of it. After the Super Bowl host committee gets back here and starts working on the actual event for us in 2008, what kinds of things can the public expect to see for that roughly one year period between now and then?

Michael Bidwell:
Well, I think it's always an exciting thing. At the end of the game I'd expect the NFL will announce the next year's Super Bowl will be hosted here in Arizona at the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale. And my sense is then Arizona will then be on the clock. And I know the host committee has a number of things they're going to roll out, you know, once we get ready. Because we've been around the clock, we're up and we're getting ready. So I know Mike Kennedy and Debbie Wardrup and Bob Sullivan have been working on a number of things. So all the eyes and focus will then shift to Arizona. And they're going to be prepared to really start educating the community, but also sports fans and NFL fans what to expect next year right here in Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
And as I understand it, in one respect Arizona will be a little different than some of the preceding Super Bowls; you had Houston, Detroit, Jacksonville which were focused on small regions or cities. And this is the Arizona Super Bowl. Can you explain what that means?

Michael Bidwell: It's really about a statewide effort to host the Super Bowl. We have so many great things. Obviously, all the activities happening in Glendale but throughout the rest of the valley. East valley, Scottsdale, Phoenix, so many activities as well as going down southern Arizona and Tucson area, northern Arizona. Really I think there'll be an effort to try to tie in the whole state so that when fans come here they're encouraged -- and businesses come here to be a part of the Super Bowl, they're encouraged to maybe spend a couple extra days and either go south or go north and explore our state and learn all the great things going on right here in Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
Michael, it was commonly stated that the Fiesta Bowl, the very successful Fiesta Bowl and Bowl Championship series games were kind of dry runs for the 2008 Super Bowl. What did you and what did the committee learn from those events?

Michael Bidwell:
I think they were dry runs because they were big events, but I think the Super Bowl will be so much bigger than the BCS National Championship game. There was a report I read where the city of Glendale was expecting 300,000 people, three times the amount of people that went to the BCS game. It will be a much bigger event. The NFL will have done 41 of these events and they're bigger and bigger. I think what you're going to see is a real coordinated effort. It's literally going to be the largest televised event going on probably in history. It seems like each new Super Bowl has a higher audience than the year before. It will be extraordinary what goes on out there.

Jose Cardenas:
Speaking of economical impact is in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Michael Bidwell:
Well, the economic impact for Super Bowl XLII we estimate to be about $400 million. It will be broadcast to over 160 different countries and about I think 80 different languages. So it's really an exciting thing for us, because it's not just the economic impact but it gives us great exposure to our state. The NFL is going to be organizing itself for the bid for the 2011 Super Bowl. And we've been working closely with the host committee members and with the staff to try to determine if that's something that we want to put. In and I think all eyes are pointing for let's put in another bid to try to get the 2011 game. It's highly unusual, though, for the league to issue a Super Bowl to a city before they've played their last Super Bowl. So we've got some good competition. It looks like Indianapolis is going be a community that focuses on that Super Bowl in 2011 as well as the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

Jose Cardenas:
Michael Bidwell enjoy the 2007 Super Bowel good luck on 2008 and let's hope we get 2011. Thank you very much.

Jose Cardenas:
the United States Navy is developing a new maritime strategy. To that end representatives are asking residents what they believe should be in the future of the U.S. Navy. At the Hyatt Regency Larry Lemmons cause up with Vice Admiral John G. Morgan Jr. he is.

Larry Lemmons:
Well it's not often we get the Navy in our landlocked desert here in Phoenix. I know that you're traveling around with this program. This seems to be a fairly unique approach. Tell us about conversations with the country.

John Morgan:
It is a unique approach, Larry. It's really about the understanding that America really cares about their military, they care about their future, and they care about their way of life. And so as we look to the future we wanted to come and listen to them. We want today to come to listen to America. We think we can learn from them. At times with we think we can help educate. That's why we started this project.

Larry Lemmons:
The last maritime strategy was done in the 80's, is that correct?

John Morgan:
Yes, the last recognizable maritime strategy really was dealt -- was really intended to deal with the Soviet Union.

Larry Lemmons:
Exactly. So what would be different than -- the Cold War has ended obviously. Now, of course, it's a completely different kind of reality. What sort of things are you trying to determine in terms of defense, deterrence, that sort of thing?

John Morgan:
We have evolved from the Cold War strategy that was the maritime strategy against the Soviet Union. And there have been vision statements, national security statements along the way. But what's causing us to rethink the maritime strategy is this: there's been profound change in the world. There's change in security relationships, there are new factors. There's change in financial markets. There's change in climate. There's change in the competition for energy sources. There's change in social cohesion around the world. That myriad of changes is causing us to say, do we have it right for the future? Do we have the right strategy? And that's what this is about as well.

Larry Lemmons:
Considering the realities today, is it sometimes difficult to try to justify a budget today considering we have a war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you find sort of a reason for existence issue?

John Morgan:
No. We're really looking beyond today and tomorrow. America has always been a sea power. 90\% of the world's commerce flows across the seas. In fact, the entire planet is 70\% water so. This is not about today, it's really about our future interests.

Larry Lemmons:
I know historically the Navy has always been involved in protecting global commerce, for example. Can you foresee, then, a wider role for the Navy in terms of protecting American interests abroad then?

John Morgan:
Yes. I think America has always been a country of global reach, of global interests, access to global markets, of global power and influence. And I see that America will remain interested in those elements of our national power for a long time to come. I think with all this profound change, we're looking at is there a need to have a new logic and a new rhetoric? And that's our responsibility is to be able to explain why our maritime security needs will continue into the future in this new framework of a new logic and a new rhetoric.

Larry Lemmons:
I know that China is building up its Navy and the British are pulling back. Do you see, then, in terms of potential problems ahead looking at China, for example, and seeing that as something that we might watch?

John Morgan:
We're seeing different trends. We're seeing in some areas navies getting smaller, but in some areas navies are getting larger. You mentioned the Chinese navy. They're building a very very capable navy. They're particularly emphasizing construction of very sophisticated submarines. And we're simply asking the question, what is their intent? Clearly it's in I think mankind's interests that China rises peacefully and becomes a responsible member of the global community. And that's certainly what our national interests are as well. That's what we aspire to do as Americans. But why has China elected to build a big navy? Why have they chosen submarines to emphasize? Those are the questions we're beginning to ask. And we need greater insight to it.

Larry Lemmons:
When you think about navy you think about certainly aircraft carriers, battle ships, shooting missiles from those ships, you know, on to the land. You think about air as well, the navy fighters. Can you see it different in the kinds of future that we're looking at to where maybe some of those things might be obsolete? Maybe we might want to change how those things are done?

John Morgan:
well, I think we have to ask that question. I think that's a good question. But we're seeing where the nation is relying upon the navy in ways that most Americans don't see. Let me give you a specific example. Unfortunately we have to rely upon nuclear weapons in this day and age, and we're seeing nuclear weapons proliferate around the world. We're very concerned about that. But today the navy has become the predominant nuclear deterrent in America's arsenal. We've gone away from the days of the triad where we had missiles in silos on land -- which we still do but to a smaller extent -- to B-52's in the air and that triad of weapons in the air, weapons under the sea and weapons in silos, we're moving more toward a reliance upon the Navy. So that's an example of how our arsenal is shifting as the world has changed. And so whether other resources that we have are obsolete, we look to see how adaptive they are, how much they can change over time. And we try to build some resiliency into our designs.

Larry Lemmons:
What sort of philosophies are existing to somehow battle terrorism? I know that's a very difficult thing. But the Cole of course was attacked. So what is the Navy thinking in terms of these much smaller units in defending against that?

John Morgan:
Well, there's a significant and important role for the Navy in fight terrorism. If you were to look at how many Navy people are in the central command region in the Persian Gulf area, we've got roughly about 24,000 Navy people in that area. Half of them are on land, a significant change for us. We're seeing that there are some very unique navy capabilities and talents that can be used against the war on terror. And so we're trying to help wherever we possibly can, whether it's in places like the situation that's ongoing in Iraq today and Afghanistan, but also how to better protect our smaller units around the world.

Larry Lemmons: Now, the first conversation was at the Naval College. This is at the second one. How many other cities will you visit. What will ultimately be done with that information?

John Morgan:
Larry, we're going to six other cities. We're going to Atlanta, Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, and San Francisco. And we've chosen those cities carefully. We didn't want to go to cities that had a predominant Navy population. We really wanted to broaden and diversify the opinions that we're getting. What will be done with that insight is one, as I said, we're going to listen. We're certainly going to learn. And from those insights it will help us craft the maritime strategy needed of and for our time. And oh, by the way, we also want to try to help educate along the way.

Larry Lemmons:
Will the information then be ready by the summer?

John Morgan:
We think we'll be in a position this summer to be able to pull all of our analysis that's been done, all of our gaming and simulations, all of the information and insights that we've gained, we hope to be able to coalesce that in the summer. And I would anticipate some kind of smooth product in early fall of this year.

Larry Lemmons:
I understand, too, that people can go online and contribute as well?

John Morgan:
We're going to demonstrate that later today through our websites so we can get feedback using that kind of technology, that kind of outreach. And so one of the things that I'm most encouraged about the process is that we've insisted that it be very open, very transparent, very inclusive. We're going to archive good ideas. We may agree and disagree, but we never want to fall prey to the criticism that we didn't listen to a credible voice.

Larry Lemmons:
Thanks, Admiral, for talking with us today.

John Morgan:
Larry, thanks for what you do. I appreciate it.

Jose Cardenas:
If you want to participate in the Navy's survey you'll find a link on our website at azpbs.org.

Jose Cardenas:
Mortgage fraud is becoming more of a problem in Arizona's real estate market. It occurs when all those involved in selling the house collude to inflate the value of the home and pocket the excess cash. A state lawmaker has filed a bill that will make mortgage fraud either a class 4 or class 2 felony. Here now to tell us more about his bill is Republican Senator Jay Tibshraeny of Chandler. Thanks for being on Horizon.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Thanks for having me, Jose.

Jose Cardenas:
First of all explain how this all works. I know there was an article in the paper but your bill actually was in the preparation stages even before that happened.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
This issue of mortgage fraud is pretty much a national issue. Two states have already adopted mortgage fraud statutes, Georgia and Colorado. But it got brought to me by a constituent from Chandler who's in the industry that called to me about it last summer. So I worked on it over the summer and in the fall and had a bill ready to drop a couple weeks ago when I got up one morning and saw a special investigative piece by the "Arizona Republic" dealing with mortgage fraud. So I dropped the bill and we're running with the bill. It deals with the real estate industry specifically residential real estate in different areas of fraud dealing with the lending process.

Jose Cardenas:
Typically how would it work, the fraud?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
A couple of different areas. I mean there's a lot of things to the fraud, there could be a lot of areas. Some specific areas you might be -- areas you might be familiar with, it could be during the appraisal process where the appraiser could be in collusion with the buyer or somebody to really falsely and severely over state the value of the home so the buyer can pull out a lot of cash in the deal, a lot more cash than the home is really worth. That could be one area. That obviously undermines the real estate market. Another area could be, as the Republic reported but that was the cash back that Republic reported -- but they could also over inflate people's income figures, even with the people not knowing it and putting them in a house that they really couldn't financially qualify for. So they inflate those income figures, put people in a house that maybe they really can't afford. And then what happens is that mortgage could go into foreclosure, those people could not afford to make those payments and they'd become victims in that particular instance.

Jose Cardenas:
Now, they would be victims, presumably the mortgage lender might be a victim. How else is society affected by this program?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I think society, specifically our state of Arizona, our economy is run a lot on the real estate industry whether we like it or not. So if we get a false inflation in the real estate industry, specifically residential real estate industry, when we hit one of those valleys it could make it much more severe and a bigger problem. Lenders will be having mortgages on houses that they can't get their money out of because the mortgage is for substantially more than what that house is worth. So it undermines your economy, and it also undermines the integrity of a very important industry to the state of Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
Now, those of us who have bought a home recently or refinanced know that when you sign the application there's this big bold language that says if you see anything false you've violated federal law.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Right.

Jose Cardenas:
How does your bill differ from federal law? What does it add?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I don't have the specifics of federal. There's certain specific federal requirements dealing with lending whether discrimination or false reporting. I do know at the federal level they're looking at doing things specifically with mortgage fraud like I'm doing. Senator Obama from Illinois is introducing or preparing to introduce some legislation. We in Arizona may have been able to prosecute the kind of crimes I'm talking about. But what my bill does is it pulls it into a specific statute, clearly states in the real estate residential industry that if you're doing these things, A,B,C,D, whatever you're doing that is against the law and here's what your penalties are going to be. So I think the feds are on the same track as we. There may be things that are going on under certain laws that is you pull together. But with this being such a big thing in Arizona and obviously nationally if they're looking at it they want to have a specific area that addresses specifically mortgage fraud.

Jose Cardenas:
Now your bill makes a distinction between two levels of penalties. What does it take to go from one penalty level to the other?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I have two levels, you're correct. Class 2 and a class 4. With the class 2 being more severe. Class 4 would be if an individual or people do this maybe on an one-time occasion, knowingly violate the law versus the class 2 which would be more severe penalties, that's for collusion, could be a crime ring, could be an ongoing pattern of defrauding people and committing these crimes. So that would be the differentiation in those two areas.

Jose Cardenas:
And the penalties for class 4 versus class 2?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Class 2 being more severe could be four to ten years in prison, class 4, the less severe, could be 1 1/2 to 3-years in prison if convicted.

Jose Cardenas:
And who does the legislation target? Is it just the seller?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
No. I think it's looking at the whole industry. It would, could be an appraiser, mortgage broker, escrow agent or the buyer. If for example all the speculators that came here may have been committing these crimes and undermining neighborhoods. It could be any of those individuals if they were involved with that intentional fraud.

Jose Cardenas:
Senator we have about 30 seconds or so left. Tell us where the bill stands right now in the legislative process.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Going through the Senate, the bill is. I will have a hearing this week in commerce, then I will need to also go through the judiciary bill in the Senate, hopefully get a hearing on that. Hopefully can get it through the Senate. If I do, it will go over to the House, we'll deal with the House, ultimately get it up to the governor's desk if I'm successful in getting this legislation passed.

Jose Cardenas:
Senator Jay Tibshraeny, thanks for joining us on Horizon.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Thank you.

Announcer: Should photo enforcements like the program that was on Scottsdale section of the Loop 101 freeway be expanded to other highways in our state in we talk about that and other traffic safety issues. Plus Arizona's state parks celebrate 50-years of service, beauty, education and recreation. That's Tuesday on Horizon.

Jose Cardenas:
Wednesday we'll take a look at a new parenting tool for expectant parents. Thursday federal and state taxes will soon come due. We'll tell you what you should know. Friday don't forget to join us for the "Journalists' Roundtable." That's our show for tonight. Thank you for joining us on Horizon. Hope to see you again tomorrow night. Thank you.

super Bowl


  • As members of the Super Bowl Host Committee head to Miami this week to watch the wind-up to the game this Sunday, we talk with a member of the committee who was instrumental in getting the 2008 Super Bowl for Glendale, Michael Bidwell, Vice President/General Counsel for the Arizona Cardinals.
Guests:
  • Michael Bidwell - Super Bowl committee member and Vice-President General Counsel of the Arizona Cardinals
  • John G. Morgan Jr. - Vice Admiral, U.S. Navy
  • Jay Tibshraeny - Republican State Senator
Category: Business/Economy   |   Keywords: Arizona Cardinals, Michael Bidwell, Super Bowl,

View Transcript
Jose Cardenas:
Tonight on Horizon, one year from now The University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale will be hosting The Super Bowl. We look at the work being done by the Super Bowl host committee. Also the U.S. Navy wants to know what you think about the future of the Navy, a conversation with Vice Admiral John G. Morgan. And a bill introduced into legislature would make mortgage fraud a felony. That's next on Horizon.

Announcer:
Horizon is made possible by contributions from the friends of eight, members of your Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

Jose Cardenas:
Good evening and thanks for joining us tonight on Horizon. I'm Jose Cardenas. As Super Bowl festivities begin in Miami, several members of the Arizona Super Bowl host committee are attending. They want to find out what works, what doesn't, and come up with new ideas for Super Bowl XLII. That game, of course, will be played at University of Phoenix Stadium February 3, 2008. Joining me now to talk about that and the potential for another Super Bowl is committee member Michael Bidwell, who also happens to be Vice-President General Counsel of the Arizona Cardinals. Thank you for joining us on Horizon.

Michael Bidwell:
Jose thank you for having me.

Jose Cardenas: Now we do want to talk about the Super Bowl that's coming up and perhaps the one we may get thereafter. But first how we got to where we are. Can you give us a quick summary?

Michael Bidwell:
Sure, as part of the voter-approved funding for the new University of Phoenix Stadium, we wanted to bring the Super Bowl back to the Phoenix area. And I think everybody in the NFL enjoyed the Super Bowl that was here back in 1996. Great hotels, great weather, the Sun Devil Stadium, the league determined, was just not going to be sufficient to have another Super Bowl. So as part of passing the stadium and building the stadium back in October of 2004, Governor Napolitano, Mayor Elaine Scruggs from the City of Glendale, and others and I asked for and competed for Super Bowl XLII to be played in February of 2008. The league awarded it to Arizona. And so since that time we've been working very very hard with the community with a number of different members from the community to prepare for Super Bowl XLII.

Jose Cardenas:
And I should have mentioned that I am involved in the host committee activities. But speaking of that committee, you have a number of members there, you have a staff there in Miami right now. What are they doing and what are they looking for?

Michael Bidwell:
Well that's right, Jose. Today actually a number of folks from the host committee and from cities around the valley, including the City of Glendale, flew down to Miami. And we've got a team of people there. Actually close to 130 people are going to be going down as part of the Arizona Super Bowl host committee effort. And it's all led up by our Chairman, Mike Kennedy, who's a local lawyer in town doing a great job of leading this. He's volunteer as chairman of the committee, also our CEO Debbie Wardrup, as well as our President Bob Sullivan, who are doing a great job. They are organizing and they are going down to see how Miami is doing it from a hospitality standpoint, hotel standpoint, transportation, public safety, the stadium, and the practice facilities. They're trying to make sure everything is covered so when we host the event a year from now here in Phoenix, that we're going to be a well prepared and ready to go.

Jose Cardenas:
And of course they've been looking at a number of these issues for some time now. Can you tell us more specifically what are some of the particular issues in terms of facilities for the teams and the media activities that precede the actual hosting of the Super Bowl?

Michael Bidwell:
Well as you can imagine it's a huge endeavor. It's the number one sporting event in the United States. It's prepared as you know four or five years out in advance. So there's a whole lot of concentration with the media, with fans. Of course, we don't know until a couple weeks before which teams will be in it. But a lot of companies and sponsors go down and bring a lot of people to the Super Bowl each year because they can plan around it. So what they're doing is they're working -- we've got a group from the hotel industry that are looking at how the hotels are handling the Super Bowl activities from public safety, number of people from public safety from Arizona who are going down to interact with the public safety officials down in Miami as well as the stadium folks, as well as a number of different other areas. Because there are a whole number of things we need to look at. But when you look at everything from the stadium to the practice facilities, we've got to make sure we've got two great practice facilities for the AFC and NFC teams to practice it. We have to have plenty of hotels for the families and fans who are going to attend the game. A whole lot of activity and coordinate nation. As well as all the events leading up to the Super Bowl there'll be literally hundreds of events that go on. Some of them are sanctioned by the NFL, some of them are sanctioned by the host committee. And others are just events that don't have any direct association with the Super Bowl but are attending by fans of the NFL and of the Super Bowl.

Jose Cardenas:
Let's talk about that aspect of it. After the Super Bowl host committee gets back here and starts working on the actual event for us in 2008, what kinds of things can the public expect to see for that roughly one year period between now and then?

Michael Bidwell:
Well, I think it's always an exciting thing. At the end of the game I'd expect the NFL will announce the next year's Super Bowl will be hosted here in Arizona at the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale. And my sense is then Arizona will then be on the clock. And I know the host committee has a number of things they're going to roll out, you know, once we get ready. Because we've been around the clock, we're up and we're getting ready. So I know Mike Kennedy and Debbie Wardrup and Bob Sullivan have been working on a number of things. So all the eyes and focus will then shift to Arizona. And they're going to be prepared to really start educating the community, but also sports fans and NFL fans what to expect next year right here in Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
And as I understand it, in one respect Arizona will be a little different than some of the preceding Super Bowls; you had Houston, Detroit, Jacksonville which were focused on small regions or cities. And this is the Arizona Super Bowl. Can you explain what that means?

Michael Bidwell: It's really about a statewide effort to host the Super Bowl. We have so many great things. Obviously, all the activities happening in Glendale but throughout the rest of the valley. East valley, Scottsdale, Phoenix, so many activities as well as going down southern Arizona and Tucson area, northern Arizona. Really I think there'll be an effort to try to tie in the whole state so that when fans come here they're encouraged -- and businesses come here to be a part of the Super Bowl, they're encouraged to maybe spend a couple extra days and either go south or go north and explore our state and learn all the great things going on right here in Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
Michael, it was commonly stated that the Fiesta Bowl, the very successful Fiesta Bowl and Bowl Championship series games were kind of dry runs for the 2008 Super Bowl. What did you and what did the committee learn from those events?

Michael Bidwell:
I think they were dry runs because they were big events, but I think the Super Bowl will be so much bigger than the BCS National Championship game. There was a report I read where the city of Glendale was expecting 300,000 people, three times the amount of people that went to the BCS game. It will be a much bigger event. The NFL will have done 41 of these events and they're bigger and bigger. I think what you're going to see is a real coordinated effort. It's literally going to be the largest televised event going on probably in history. It seems like each new Super Bowl has a higher audience than the year before. It will be extraordinary what goes on out there.

Jose Cardenas:
Speaking of economical impact is in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Michael Bidwell:
Well, the economic impact for Super Bowl XLII we estimate to be about $400 million. It will be broadcast to over 160 different countries and about I think 80 different languages. So it's really an exciting thing for us, because it's not just the economic impact but it gives us great exposure to our state. The NFL is going to be organizing itself for the bid for the 2011 Super Bowl. And we've been working closely with the host committee members and with the staff to try to determine if that's something that we want to put. In and I think all eyes are pointing for let's put in another bid to try to get the 2011 game. It's highly unusual, though, for the league to issue a Super Bowl to a city before they've played their last Super Bowl. So we've got some good competition. It looks like Indianapolis is going be a community that focuses on that Super Bowl in 2011 as well as the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

Jose Cardenas:
Michael Bidwell enjoy the 2007 Super Bowel good luck on 2008 and let's hope we get 2011. Thank you very much.

Jose Cardenas:
the United States Navy is developing a new maritime strategy. To that end representatives are asking residents what they believe should be in the future of the U.S. Navy. At the Hyatt Regency Larry Lemmons cause up with Vice Admiral John G. Morgan Jr. he is.

Larry Lemmons:
Well it's not often we get the Navy in our landlocked desert here in Phoenix. I know that you're traveling around with this program. This seems to be a fairly unique approach. Tell us about conversations with the country.

John Morgan:
It is a unique approach, Larry. It's really about the understanding that America really cares about their military, they care about their future, and they care about their way of life. And so as we look to the future we wanted to come and listen to them. We want today to come to listen to America. We think we can learn from them. At times with we think we can help educate. That's why we started this project.

Larry Lemmons:
The last maritime strategy was done in the 80's, is that correct?

John Morgan:
Yes, the last recognizable maritime strategy really was dealt -- was really intended to deal with the Soviet Union.

Larry Lemmons:
Exactly. So what would be different than -- the Cold War has ended obviously. Now, of course, it's a completely different kind of reality. What sort of things are you trying to determine in terms of defense, deterrence, that sort of thing?

John Morgan:
We have evolved from the Cold War strategy that was the maritime strategy against the Soviet Union. And there have been vision statements, national security statements along the way. But what's causing us to rethink the maritime strategy is this: there's been profound change in the world. There's change in security relationships, there are new factors. There's change in financial markets. There's change in climate. There's change in the competition for energy sources. There's change in social cohesion around the world. That myriad of changes is causing us to say, do we have it right for the future? Do we have the right strategy? And that's what this is about as well.

Larry Lemmons:
Considering the realities today, is it sometimes difficult to try to justify a budget today considering we have a war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you find sort of a reason for existence issue?

John Morgan:
No. We're really looking beyond today and tomorrow. America has always been a sea power. 90\% of the world's commerce flows across the seas. In fact, the entire planet is 70\% water so. This is not about today, it's really about our future interests.

Larry Lemmons:
I know historically the Navy has always been involved in protecting global commerce, for example. Can you foresee, then, a wider role for the Navy in terms of protecting American interests abroad then?

John Morgan:
Yes. I think America has always been a country of global reach, of global interests, access to global markets, of global power and influence. And I see that America will remain interested in those elements of our national power for a long time to come. I think with all this profound change, we're looking at is there a need to have a new logic and a new rhetoric? And that's our responsibility is to be able to explain why our maritime security needs will continue into the future in this new framework of a new logic and a new rhetoric.

Larry Lemmons:
I know that China is building up its Navy and the British are pulling back. Do you see, then, in terms of potential problems ahead looking at China, for example, and seeing that as something that we might watch?

John Morgan:
We're seeing different trends. We're seeing in some areas navies getting smaller, but in some areas navies are getting larger. You mentioned the Chinese navy. They're building a very very capable navy. They're particularly emphasizing construction of very sophisticated submarines. And we're simply asking the question, what is their intent? Clearly it's in I think mankind's interests that China rises peacefully and becomes a responsible member of the global community. And that's certainly what our national interests are as well. That's what we aspire to do as Americans. But why has China elected to build a big navy? Why have they chosen submarines to emphasize? Those are the questions we're beginning to ask. And we need greater insight to it.

Larry Lemmons:
When you think about navy you think about certainly aircraft carriers, battle ships, shooting missiles from those ships, you know, on to the land. You think about air as well, the navy fighters. Can you see it different in the kinds of future that we're looking at to where maybe some of those things might be obsolete? Maybe we might want to change how those things are done?

John Morgan:
well, I think we have to ask that question. I think that's a good question. But we're seeing where the nation is relying upon the navy in ways that most Americans don't see. Let me give you a specific example. Unfortunately we have to rely upon nuclear weapons in this day and age, and we're seeing nuclear weapons proliferate around the world. We're very concerned about that. But today the navy has become the predominant nuclear deterrent in America's arsenal. We've gone away from the days of the triad where we had missiles in silos on land -- which we still do but to a smaller extent -- to B-52's in the air and that triad of weapons in the air, weapons under the sea and weapons in silos, we're moving more toward a reliance upon the Navy. So that's an example of how our arsenal is shifting as the world has changed. And so whether other resources that we have are obsolete, we look to see how adaptive they are, how much they can change over time. And we try to build some resiliency into our designs.

Larry Lemmons:
What sort of philosophies are existing to somehow battle terrorism? I know that's a very difficult thing. But the Cole of course was attacked. So what is the Navy thinking in terms of these much smaller units in defending against that?

John Morgan:
Well, there's a significant and important role for the Navy in fight terrorism. If you were to look at how many Navy people are in the central command region in the Persian Gulf area, we've got roughly about 24,000 Navy people in that area. Half of them are on land, a significant change for us. We're seeing that there are some very unique navy capabilities and talents that can be used against the war on terror. And so we're trying to help wherever we possibly can, whether it's in places like the situation that's ongoing in Iraq today and Afghanistan, but also how to better protect our smaller units around the world.

Larry Lemmons: Now, the first conversation was at the Naval College. This is at the second one. How many other cities will you visit. What will ultimately be done with that information?

John Morgan:
Larry, we're going to six other cities. We're going to Atlanta, Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, and San Francisco. And we've chosen those cities carefully. We didn't want to go to cities that had a predominant Navy population. We really wanted to broaden and diversify the opinions that we're getting. What will be done with that insight is one, as I said, we're going to listen. We're certainly going to learn. And from those insights it will help us craft the maritime strategy needed of and for our time. And oh, by the way, we also want to try to help educate along the way.

Larry Lemmons:
Will the information then be ready by the summer?

John Morgan:
We think we'll be in a position this summer to be able to pull all of our analysis that's been done, all of our gaming and simulations, all of the information and insights that we've gained, we hope to be able to coalesce that in the summer. And I would anticipate some kind of smooth product in early fall of this year.

Larry Lemmons:
I understand, too, that people can go online and contribute as well?

John Morgan:
We're going to demonstrate that later today through our websites so we can get feedback using that kind of technology, that kind of outreach. And so one of the things that I'm most encouraged about the process is that we've insisted that it be very open, very transparent, very inclusive. We're going to archive good ideas. We may agree and disagree, but we never want to fall prey to the criticism that we didn't listen to a credible voice.

Larry Lemmons:
Thanks, Admiral, for talking with us today.

John Morgan:
Larry, thanks for what you do. I appreciate it.

Jose Cardenas:
If you want to participate in the Navy's survey you'll find a link on our website at azpbs.org.

Jose Cardenas:
Mortgage fraud is becoming more of a problem in Arizona's real estate market. It occurs when all those involved in selling the house collude to inflate the value of the home and pocket the excess cash. A state lawmaker has filed a bill that will make mortgage fraud either a class 4 or class 2 felony. Here now to tell us more about his bill is Republican Senator Jay Tibshraeny of Chandler. Thanks for being on Horizon.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Thanks for having me, Jose.

Jose Cardenas:
First of all explain how this all works. I know there was an article in the paper but your bill actually was in the preparation stages even before that happened.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
This issue of mortgage fraud is pretty much a national issue. Two states have already adopted mortgage fraud statutes, Georgia and Colorado. But it got brought to me by a constituent from Chandler who's in the industry that called to me about it last summer. So I worked on it over the summer and in the fall and had a bill ready to drop a couple weeks ago when I got up one morning and saw a special investigative piece by the "Arizona Republic" dealing with mortgage fraud. So I dropped the bill and we're running with the bill. It deals with the real estate industry specifically residential real estate in different areas of fraud dealing with the lending process.

Jose Cardenas:
Typically how would it work, the fraud?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
A couple of different areas. I mean there's a lot of things to the fraud, there could be a lot of areas. Some specific areas you might be -- areas you might be familiar with, it could be during the appraisal process where the appraiser could be in collusion with the buyer or somebody to really falsely and severely over state the value of the home so the buyer can pull out a lot of cash in the deal, a lot more cash than the home is really worth. That could be one area. That obviously undermines the real estate market. Another area could be, as the Republic reported but that was the cash back that Republic reported -- but they could also over inflate people's income figures, even with the people not knowing it and putting them in a house that they really couldn't financially qualify for. So they inflate those income figures, put people in a house that maybe they really can't afford. And then what happens is that mortgage could go into foreclosure, those people could not afford to make those payments and they'd become victims in that particular instance.

Jose Cardenas:
Now, they would be victims, presumably the mortgage lender might be a victim. How else is society affected by this program?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I think society, specifically our state of Arizona, our economy is run a lot on the real estate industry whether we like it or not. So if we get a false inflation in the real estate industry, specifically residential real estate industry, when we hit one of those valleys it could make it much more severe and a bigger problem. Lenders will be having mortgages on houses that they can't get their money out of because the mortgage is for substantially more than what that house is worth. So it undermines your economy, and it also undermines the integrity of a very important industry to the state of Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
Now, those of us who have bought a home recently or refinanced know that when you sign the application there's this big bold language that says if you see anything false you've violated federal law.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Right.

Jose Cardenas:
How does your bill differ from federal law? What does it add?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I don't have the specifics of federal. There's certain specific federal requirements dealing with lending whether discrimination or false reporting. I do know at the federal level they're looking at doing things specifically with mortgage fraud like I'm doing. Senator Obama from Illinois is introducing or preparing to introduce some legislation. We in Arizona may have been able to prosecute the kind of crimes I'm talking about. But what my bill does is it pulls it into a specific statute, clearly states in the real estate residential industry that if you're doing these things, A,B,C,D, whatever you're doing that is against the law and here's what your penalties are going to be. So I think the feds are on the same track as we. There may be things that are going on under certain laws that is you pull together. But with this being such a big thing in Arizona and obviously nationally if they're looking at it they want to have a specific area that addresses specifically mortgage fraud.

Jose Cardenas:
Now your bill makes a distinction between two levels of penalties. What does it take to go from one penalty level to the other?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
I have two levels, you're correct. Class 2 and a class 4. With the class 2 being more severe. Class 4 would be if an individual or people do this maybe on an one-time occasion, knowingly violate the law versus the class 2 which would be more severe penalties, that's for collusion, could be a crime ring, could be an ongoing pattern of defrauding people and committing these crimes. So that would be the differentiation in those two areas.

Jose Cardenas:
And the penalties for class 4 versus class 2?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Class 2 being more severe could be four to ten years in prison, class 4, the less severe, could be 1 1/2 to 3-years in prison if convicted.

Jose Cardenas:
And who does the legislation target? Is it just the seller?

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
No. I think it's looking at the whole industry. It would, could be an appraiser, mortgage broker, escrow agent or the buyer. If for example all the speculators that came here may have been committing these crimes and undermining neighborhoods. It could be any of those individuals if they were involved with that intentional fraud.

Jose Cardenas:
Senator we have about 30 seconds or so left. Tell us where the bill stands right now in the legislative process.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Going through the Senate, the bill is. I will have a hearing this week in commerce, then I will need to also go through the judiciary bill in the Senate, hopefully get a hearing on that. Hopefully can get it through the Senate. If I do, it will go over to the House, we'll deal with the House, ultimately get it up to the governor's desk if I'm successful in getting this legislation passed.

Jose Cardenas:
Senator Jay Tibshraeny, thanks for joining us on Horizon.

Sen. Jay Tibshraeny:
Thank you.

Announcer: Should photo enforcements like the program that was on Scottsdale section of the Loop 101 freeway be expanded to other highways in our state in we talk about that and other traffic safety issues. Plus Arizona's state parks celebrate 50-years of service, beauty, education and recreation. That's Tuesday on Horizon.

Jose Cardenas:
Wednesday we'll take a look at a new parenting tool for expectant parents. Thursday federal and state taxes will soon come due. We'll tell you what you should know. Friday don't forget to join us for the "Journalists' Roundtable." That's our show for tonight. Thank you for joining us on Horizon. Hope to see you again tomorrow night. Thank you.

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