Horizon, Host: Ted Simons

January 23, 2006


Host: Michael Grant

Arizona Stories: Taliesin West


Guests:
  • George Cunningham - Deputy Chief of Staff for the Governor
  • Senate President Ken Bennett -


View Transcript
Michael Grant:
Tonight on Horizon, the battle over the budget in the legislature. From education to immigration, where lawmakers expect the money to go. And a local institution reflects the genius and vision of one of the 20th century's most influential architects. We visit Taliesin-west. Good evening. Thanks for joining us. I'm Michael Grant. Tonight we start a four-part look at the most important issues facing the legislature this session. We'll focus on education, immigration, and what comes of the English language learning issue. Tonight we're focusing on the budget. Here's a partial overview of what the governor is proposing in her $10.1 billion budget

Larry Lemmons:
Governor Napolitano's budget is divided primarily between education, immigration, tax relief, healthcare and law enforcement. She intends to spend $105.4 million on voluntary full-day kindergarten and devote $90.7 million to teacher pay raises. Republican legislative leaders do not agree with the governor's priorities.

Rep. Jim Weiers:
One of the things we did that caught everybody off guard, we weren't trying to be cute or come in under the radar, but we did send out a questionnaire to all the school districts asking them for the prioritization. I think that's where you start is if you have a limited amount of money you can spend, you can't say we're going to do everything lousy. Let's give a little bit to everything so at the end of the day you have a bunch of lousy things that receive more money. You have to say, what are you going to do and are you going to do it right, fully fund it. It was really surprising the districts that did respond before there was a political group that said, what are you doing? You're crazy by answering this because what you're doing is answering a question, which you should never do. All day kindergarten was not at the top 3, 4, 5, 6 of where they wanted the prioritization.

Gov. Janet Napolitano:
We're basically adding another grade to elementary education, at the front end. Why? Because everything shows that children who have the experience of all-day k, they read earlier, they have math, they are more likely to read at third grade level. Of course reading at grade level at third grade is a key indicator as to whether a child will graduate from high school and go on.

Larry Lemmons:
The governor proposes initiatives to enforce the Arizona/Mexico border.

Gov. Janet Napolitano:
It's a $100 million package of which about 73.4 million would go to local law enforcement, local prosecutors for help in increasing the law enforcement presence at the border. The rest would go to increased department of public safety. We have a lot of environmental damage that has occurred because of just the amount of illegal immigration, so I would ask for some funding so we can put some prison inmate crews down there to clean it up.

Sen. Ken Bennett:
I was flabbergasted she picked the exact number we had suggested a week earlier, but here's an area where we have surprising agreement. It must include more than the kind of expenses she wanted the 1.5 to go to because only a couple hundred thousand has been spent.

Larry Lemmons:
Tax relief would be seen in the form of health care tax breaks, a sales tax holiday and vehicle tax reduction.

Gov. Janet Napolitano:
I think because it's more directed and targeted you can actually get a bigger bang for the tax cut buck because we're putting it in areas that will really affect people in their pocketbooks, in areas where we know we have demonstrable shortages. Usually what happens when you do an across the board cut is because of the way the income tax system works, those with higher incomes get the biggest cut. That's what we're seeing in Washington D.C. in those tax cuts. Nice, but it doesn't really help folks in the lower, lower, middle income who are working who need help with getting their kids back to school, getting health insurance, so forth.

Sen. Ken Bennett:
If you can do something that rewards the people that are already here and makes Arizona more competitive and attractive and bring even more and better, higher paying jobs in, maybe you've really done something instead of targeting it so narrowly that you really just reward a few people, some of who are already doing it such as small business. In my business I pay health insurance for my employees.

Michael Grant:
She wants to reward you.

Sen. Ken Bennett:
But it's not going to change my behavior. It's already there.

Gov. Janet Napolitano:
Also, the budget calls for $8.6 million for purchase of vaccine for children and low-income adults and 44.7 million for salary increases for state law enforcement personnel.

Michael Grant:
We had originally scheduled the chairman of the senate appropriations committee, Senator Bob Burns, and committee Member Senator Robert Cannell, to be on the program, but they have been detained tonight in the senate while the legislature works on the English language-learning bill. Deadline to come up with a bill before the federal government levies a fine is tomorrow. We'll have more on that topic on Thursday. In place of our guests, we'll rerun a portion of the segment with the Governor's Deputy Chief of Staff George Cunningham, who was on Horizonte last week with Jose Cardenas.

George Cunningham:
The governor's feeling here and what she has indicated a number of times is that education is really the great economic equalizer in our society. The equalizer between those born of wealth and those who learn in school and gain the knowledge and ability to achieve economic independence or prosperity as a result of their learning. So a quality education system is so important, and an investment in education pays off so much to the citizens of the state of Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
You talked about the connection between the themes of the governor's state of the state and her budget. One was a safe Arizona, and she seemed to focus in particular on border security. We have a graphic on that too, what's she's doing there. Let's talk about that.

George Cunningham:
The governor has a border security package. It's approximately $100 million. It's designed to stem the tide of criminal activity associated with the border. That criminal activity includes such crimes as human smuggling, drug trafficking, car theft, domestic terrorism as well as gang-related activity. The funding that would be provided is for in part technology and equipment such as the smart fence, radar or ground-based radar system which allows for signal to be sent to various monitors as a result of activity that occurs in various sections. It's not a fence in the sense of a wall. It's an electronic surveillance kind of thing.

Jose Cardenas:
Who would be using that technology? Would it be local law enforcement or is this being made available to the border patrol?

George Cunningham:
It would be local law enforcement utilizing this technology. There's funding also in the border security package for law enforcement personnel who will become through training and other efforts become better equipped to apprehend, investigate and prosecute criminal activity related to the border.

Jose Cardenas:
The governor also talked about using the National Guard in connection with this. As I understand it that's not necessarily a budget item. That's a request to the federal government to pay for that. Am I right?

George Cunningham:
That's correct. There's not a budget item specifically for that, but as we go through the legislative session and so forth and this particular item is considered by the leadership in the legislature as a whole, it might be that the uses for which the dollars are intended may change, may expand or contract.

Jose Cardenas:
And there are differences between the legislative budget proposals and the governor's. Before we do that, continue with the governor's proposal, her -- she also suggested a number of areas of tax cuts totaling roughly $100 million.

George Cunningham:
The governor had some targeted tax relief that she has proposed. First and foremost is a $1,000 tax credit, health care tax credit, to those businesses that -- small businesses between two and 24 employees, who currently offer health insurance. In addition, there's that $1,000 would be made available to small businesses that have two to 24 employees who would begin to offer health insurance coverage for their employees. This is an inducement as well as a thank you to small businesses who really have a tough time providing health care, and many times they have to choose between employing employees, providing them with salary, and providing health care. So this is a way to try to expand the coverage of health care in small businesses and small businesses between two and 24 are much smaller percentage of those over all offer health care coverage than do businesses that are much larger.

Jose Cardenas:
For the broader citizenry we have the vehicle tax cut. What can you tell us about that?

George Cunningham:
The vehicle license tax cut will reward effectively those drivers of vehicles that have high miles per gallon. It's a tiered system such that you'll have a -- at the first tier if your vehicle gets between 31 and 35 mile per gallon you'll have a 25\% reduction in your vehicle license tax. There's a tier for 36 to 40 and 41 to 45. If your vehicle achieves 46 miles per gallon or more you effectively will be exempt from the vehicle license tax and the fee is like $10.

Jose Cardenas:
So it's an inducement for those who conserve fuel with the use of that type of vehicle. So somebody who drives a hummer won't get much of a benefit.

George Cunningham:
A person who drives a Hummer unless they replace the motor with a single cycle engine, I doubt that they would get this.

Jose Cardenas:
Let's talk quickly about some of the back to school tax credits.

George Cunningham:
The governor has offered a sales tax holiday to the legislature for consideration. What this would do is it would allow for a cessation of the imposition of the sales tax for a three-day period in the first week of august. Principally for the purchase of school supplies, clothing and computers. There's limits on the single item.

Jose Cardenas:
We have that on the screen right now. $100 for school clothes.

George Cunningham:
That's correct. $50 for supplies and $1,000 for computer. A person can buy a piece of clothing that would normally be $50 and they would normally pay approximately 8.2\% on that in sales tax. Rather than paying $54 they would pay $50 for that.

Michael Grant:
Recently in response to the governor's proposals on the budget in the state of the state address, I interviewed Senate President Ken Bennett and House Speaker Jim Weiers. Here's a portion of that interview. What's the current estimate on full implementation on voluntary all-day k?

Sen. Ken Bennett:
Based on the first two years which we have done, about 10\% and total combined about 30, 40 million, the remaining step in one year would be in excess of 200 million more.

Michael Grant:
All day K seems to be, and I have reviewed various polling sources, so I don't rely strictly on one source, seems to be an enormously politically popular idea. Is there anything in this for the legislature really to resist this idea?

Sen. Ken Bennett:
Well, I think one of the reasons why it's popular is that the legislature several years ago put over $30 million a year into a k-3 funding program that basically allowed districts to decide however they wanted to spend that money. Many are using those dollars to already provide all day k. Even by the governor's budget office's own admission, when she suggested all-day k a couple of years ago, almost half the state was already providing all day k, and most of what we have funded already and would be fund over the next couple of phases is a replacement of dollars that were already used for that purpose. So it doesn't surprise me, or many of us, that it's popular because it's already out there. It's just a matter of do you want to replace it with other dollars.

Michael Grant:
But doesn't the story read this way: governor proposes all day k, legislature rejects it and you end up on the short end of the stick.

Rep. Jim Weiers:
Yeah, if that's the way that the question is and that's the way that it's answered. One of the things that we did that caught everybody off guard, we weren't trying to be cute or come in under the radar, but we did send out a questionnaire to all the school districts asking them for the prioritization. I think that's where you start. If you have a limited amount of money to spend, you can't say we're going to do everything lousy. Let's give a little bit to everything so at the end of the day you have a bunch of lousy things that receive more money. You have to say, what are you going to do and are you going to do it right and fully fund it. It was really surprising the districts that did respond before there was a political group that said, what are you doing? You're crazy by answering this. You're answering a question which you should never do. All day kindergarten was not in the top 3, 4, 5, 6 in order of prioritization.

Michael Grant:
What about the proposal for a $30,000 base pay for all teachers?

Rep. Jim Weiers:
Well, when you have standard amount that comes into basic aid, the districts make the determination where they will spend the money. There are districts that can -- there's different starting wages all across. If you're going to unify across the board and say 30,000, are you then going to cap as to what you can make? Are you going to say five years, ten years, what not --

Michael Grant:
You don't think it's a good idea?

Rep. Jim Weiers:
30,000 for a teacher? A lot of the districts that I know of start at 30, 31,000 anyway.

Michael Grant:
What about mandating a $30,000 base pay for all teachers? Good idea, bad idea?

Sen. Ken Bennett:
I think teachers are -- good teachers are worth much more than that, whether they are starting or well into their career. Most of the districts I think the speaker is eluding to have always said, we want to make that decision. We want to control our salary schedules, and many are already in excess of 30 as a starting and nearing the mid 40's as an average. So it's kind of a dichotomy, you want to have a statewide teacher pay schedule? Most of the districts have not received that very well.

Michael Grant:
Mr. Bennett you and the speaker suggested $250 million in tax relief. Let's focus on the approach. The governor seemed to be suggesting with her figure that it should be targeted. I get the impression perhaps tax credits and others for high-tech, nanotech and other tech. I think the reading your and Jim Weiers' comments you think broad-based tax relief would be more appropriate, lowering of the income tax rate generally. Am I in the ballpark?

Sen. Ken Bennett:
I think that's been one of our themes. If you're going to do some tax reform or cutting, try to do it in a way so that you not only reward the people who are already here doing the job of making this state go but that you make Arizona a more attractive place for businesses who are looking at bringing high paid jobs somewhere an if we can address, for example, the marginal tax rates on income tax or if we can -- I think we have another group at the legislature that are focused on the property tax side where we're still relatively high as far as business property taxes, if you can do something that rewards the people that are already here and makes Arizona more competitive and attractive and bring even more and better, higher paying jobs in, maybe you've really done something instead of targeting it so narrowly that you really just kind of reward a few people, some of who are already doing it.

Michael Grant:
We will continue our series on legislative issues tomorrow night. We'll be taking a look at various education issues. In the 30's, visionary architect Frank Lloyd Wright moved to Arizona. He brought his family; he brought his apprentices from his summer home in Wisconsin. He began constructing what would be known as Taliesin west. The institution would grow and prosper near the McDowell Mountains in Scottsdale. Producers Larry Lemmons and videographers Richard Torruellas and Scot Olson bring tonight's Arizona story.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
This is called the drafting room of the studio. Actually, it was the first room built. This block here was the first masonry involved. In Arizona you can't dress or till the stone. We thought, let's put the flat part of the stone against the form, concrete behind it. Then the beams overhead carry the canvas flats. This is actually dressing room, living room, and dining room. The first room built was the kitchen. That's central to the whole thing. He called it a galley because he referred to Taliesin-west like a ship afloat on the desert with the white canvas, like a ship on the desert.

Larry Lemmons:
The view from the prow of Frank Lloyd Wright's ship on the desert, the Scottsdale landscape is virtually pristine although signs of civilization invade the Horizon. Looking back toward the prow, the McDowell Mountains rise behind the vessel. Taliesin-west has grown incrementally and organically over the years from the desert floor.

Vernon Swaback:
Taliesin-west is a statement of a very heroic person, a very heroic nature of someone who first programmed the life to be experienced in these structures and then designed the structures to support that.

Larry Lemmons:
Considered a visionary today, the iconoclastic architect Frank Lloyd Wright sometimes faced ridicule in his day when he advanced a theory of organic architecture. He believed form and function are one, that a structure and a site are one.

Vernon Swaback:
What he wanted was for architecture in his words to be a natural consort to the ground, for people and the lives of people to be a flowering of the spirit of the land, one and the same. Both being nature, both being natural. What is natural is not always architectural but what is architectural must always be natural.

Larry Lemmons:
Wright bridged the gap between environmental idealism and development. Taliesin-west is an exemplar of this idea, reflecting a great respect for the land.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
He came out about 1927, 1928, working with the Biltmore as a consultant, and fell in love with the desert. He loved it, a contrast to Wisconsin.

Larry Lemmons:
On a Wisconsin hilltop he built the original Taliesin in 1911. Taliesin means shining brow. It served as home, office and summer location for his apprentices. He found the site for Taliesin-west in 1937.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
When Wright came here with his wife and children and a dog and about 25 young men and women who were his apprentices. With just that work force they built Taliesin-west. Picked stones off the side of the mountain, sand from the washes, concrete, beams, white canvas.

Larry Lemmons:
Bruce Pfeiffer came to Taliesin as an apprentice 50 years ago.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
I enjoyed it, read by candlelight. At that time we really were in the wilderness.

Larry Lemmons:
Vernon Swaback began his apprenticeship in 1957.

Vernon Swaback:
I have a very nice house. The architecture has been very good to me, but as a teenager I lived in a tent, which had a depressed slab about eight feet square. It was a red canvas sheepherder's tent that opened on both sides. The floor was all kind of cushioned and carpeted with colorful pillows around it with kerosene lanterns I felt was more like the Arabian knights instead of a boy scout. At night instead of getting in a car and driving home through crowded freeways and finding a house with lots of garage doors and divorced from nature, I walked out into the blackness of night, quiet, mystical, and when I went to sleep in my little tent I was part of all of that. I have said it often and I can say it without fear of reservation that in many ways I will never live that well again.

Larry Lemmons:
From the beginning at Taliesin-west, the apprentices learned from their mentor and collectively built what is now the home of both the Frank Lloyd Wright foundation and the Frank Lloyd Wright school of architecture. There's a theatre on site as well as a cabaret. Life was a mixture of manual labor and social functions.

Vernon Swaback:
Our little inside joke about that would be that it's mandatory to have a sleeping bag and a tuxedo.

Larry Lemmons:
The living quarters in the Wrights' house were unpretentious, tending to be relatively small. But filled with beautiful art and cultural clues.

Vernon Swaback:
I think the most exciting thing about this room as well as all of Taliesin-west, is coming out to the middle of an undeveloped desert and rather than thinking in terms of survival or shelter, there's this immediate sense of grand pianos and wide open spaces and Indian blankets and just the celebration of cultural life.

Larry Lemmons:
Wright worked tirelessly and imbued his apprentices with vision and purpose.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
I think that's one thing that kept him young. He surrounded himself with youth. For him youth is a quality -- youth is not age, youth is a quality.

Larry Lemmons:
There were 70 to 90 apprentices at Taliesin at the time of Wright's death, all of whom carried with them a reflection of his vision.

Vernon Swaback:
In Wright's words, culture is a way of making life beautiful. Beauty to him was not prettiness or taste or fashion. Beauty was fundamentally something that worked like life itself.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
Buildings which are in harmony with nature, buildings which are dedicated to the human being.

Merry Lucero:
Governor Napolitano proposes several education initiatives under her budget plan. Among them, voluntary all day kindergarten and a teacher pay increase. Join us as we continue a weeklong series on the top issues before the legislature Tuesday at 7:00 on Horizon.

Michael Grant:
Wednesday we will continue our legislative series with a look at the immigration issue. Thursday we'll focus on bilingual education. Thank you for joining us on this Monday evening. I'm Michael Grant. Have a great one. Goodnight.

Legislature 2006: Budget


  • Join HORIZON this week for a four-part look at the issues that promise to take center stage during this year's legislative session. Tonight, we examine the budget with the Chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, Republican Senator Bob Burns and fellow Committee member Democratic Senator Robert Cannell.
Guests:
  • George Cunningham - Deputy Chief of Staff for the Governor
  • Senate President Ken Bennett -


View Transcript
Michael Grant:
Tonight on Horizon, the battle over the budget in the legislature. From education to immigration, where lawmakers expect the money to go. And a local institution reflects the genius and vision of one of the 20th century's most influential architects. We visit Taliesin-west. Good evening. Thanks for joining us. I'm Michael Grant. Tonight we start a four-part look at the most important issues facing the legislature this session. We'll focus on education, immigration, and what comes of the English language learning issue. Tonight we're focusing on the budget. Here's a partial overview of what the governor is proposing in her $10.1 billion budget

Larry Lemmons:
Governor Napolitano's budget is divided primarily between education, immigration, tax relief, healthcare and law enforcement. She intends to spend $105.4 million on voluntary full-day kindergarten and devote $90.7 million to teacher pay raises. Republican legislative leaders do not agree with the governor's priorities.

Rep. Jim Weiers:
One of the things we did that caught everybody off guard, we weren't trying to be cute or come in under the radar, but we did send out a questionnaire to all the school districts asking them for the prioritization. I think that's where you start is if you have a limited amount of money you can spend, you can't say we're going to do everything lousy. Let's give a little bit to everything so at the end of the day you have a bunch of lousy things that receive more money. You have to say, what are you going to do and are you going to do it right, fully fund it. It was really surprising the districts that did respond before there was a political group that said, what are you doing? You're crazy by answering this because what you're doing is answering a question, which you should never do. All day kindergarten was not at the top 3, 4, 5, 6 of where they wanted the prioritization.

Gov. Janet Napolitano:
We're basically adding another grade to elementary education, at the front end. Why? Because everything shows that children who have the experience of all-day k, they read earlier, they have math, they are more likely to read at third grade level. Of course reading at grade level at third grade is a key indicator as to whether a child will graduate from high school and go on.

Larry Lemmons:
The governor proposes initiatives to enforce the Arizona/Mexico border.

Gov. Janet Napolitano:
It's a $100 million package of which about 73.4 million would go to local law enforcement, local prosecutors for help in increasing the law enforcement presence at the border. The rest would go to increased department of public safety. We have a lot of environmental damage that has occurred because of just the amount of illegal immigration, so I would ask for some funding so we can put some prison inmate crews down there to clean it up.

Sen. Ken Bennett:
I was flabbergasted she picked the exact number we had suggested a week earlier, but here's an area where we have surprising agreement. It must include more than the kind of expenses she wanted the 1.5 to go to because only a couple hundred thousand has been spent.

Larry Lemmons:
Tax relief would be seen in the form of health care tax breaks, a sales tax holiday and vehicle tax reduction.

Gov. Janet Napolitano:
I think because it's more directed and targeted you can actually get a bigger bang for the tax cut buck because we're putting it in areas that will really affect people in their pocketbooks, in areas where we know we have demonstrable shortages. Usually what happens when you do an across the board cut is because of the way the income tax system works, those with higher incomes get the biggest cut. That's what we're seeing in Washington D.C. in those tax cuts. Nice, but it doesn't really help folks in the lower, lower, middle income who are working who need help with getting their kids back to school, getting health insurance, so forth.

Sen. Ken Bennett:
If you can do something that rewards the people that are already here and makes Arizona more competitive and attractive and bring even more and better, higher paying jobs in, maybe you've really done something instead of targeting it so narrowly that you really just reward a few people, some of who are already doing it such as small business. In my business I pay health insurance for my employees.

Michael Grant:
She wants to reward you.

Sen. Ken Bennett:
But it's not going to change my behavior. It's already there.

Gov. Janet Napolitano:
Also, the budget calls for $8.6 million for purchase of vaccine for children and low-income adults and 44.7 million for salary increases for state law enforcement personnel.

Michael Grant:
We had originally scheduled the chairman of the senate appropriations committee, Senator Bob Burns, and committee Member Senator Robert Cannell, to be on the program, but they have been detained tonight in the senate while the legislature works on the English language-learning bill. Deadline to come up with a bill before the federal government levies a fine is tomorrow. We'll have more on that topic on Thursday. In place of our guests, we'll rerun a portion of the segment with the Governor's Deputy Chief of Staff George Cunningham, who was on Horizonte last week with Jose Cardenas.

George Cunningham:
The governor's feeling here and what she has indicated a number of times is that education is really the great economic equalizer in our society. The equalizer between those born of wealth and those who learn in school and gain the knowledge and ability to achieve economic independence or prosperity as a result of their learning. So a quality education system is so important, and an investment in education pays off so much to the citizens of the state of Arizona.

Jose Cardenas:
You talked about the connection between the themes of the governor's state of the state and her budget. One was a safe Arizona, and she seemed to focus in particular on border security. We have a graphic on that too, what's she's doing there. Let's talk about that.

George Cunningham:
The governor has a border security package. It's approximately $100 million. It's designed to stem the tide of criminal activity associated with the border. That criminal activity includes such crimes as human smuggling, drug trafficking, car theft, domestic terrorism as well as gang-related activity. The funding that would be provided is for in part technology and equipment such as the smart fence, radar or ground-based radar system which allows for signal to be sent to various monitors as a result of activity that occurs in various sections. It's not a fence in the sense of a wall. It's an electronic surveillance kind of thing.

Jose Cardenas:
Who would be using that technology? Would it be local law enforcement or is this being made available to the border patrol?

George Cunningham:
It would be local law enforcement utilizing this technology. There's funding also in the border security package for law enforcement personnel who will become through training and other efforts become better equipped to apprehend, investigate and prosecute criminal activity related to the border.

Jose Cardenas:
The governor also talked about using the National Guard in connection with this. As I understand it that's not necessarily a budget item. That's a request to the federal government to pay for that. Am I right?

George Cunningham:
That's correct. There's not a budget item specifically for that, but as we go through the legislative session and so forth and this particular item is considered by the leadership in the legislature as a whole, it might be that the uses for which the dollars are intended may change, may expand or contract.

Jose Cardenas:
And there are differences between the legislative budget proposals and the governor's. Before we do that, continue with the governor's proposal, her -- she also suggested a number of areas of tax cuts totaling roughly $100 million.

George Cunningham:
The governor had some targeted tax relief that she has proposed. First and foremost is a $1,000 tax credit, health care tax credit, to those businesses that -- small businesses between two and 24 employees, who currently offer health insurance. In addition, there's that $1,000 would be made available to small businesses that have two to 24 employees who would begin to offer health insurance coverage for their employees. This is an inducement as well as a thank you to small businesses who really have a tough time providing health care, and many times they have to choose between employing employees, providing them with salary, and providing health care. So this is a way to try to expand the coverage of health care in small businesses and small businesses between two and 24 are much smaller percentage of those over all offer health care coverage than do businesses that are much larger.

Jose Cardenas:
For the broader citizenry we have the vehicle tax cut. What can you tell us about that?

George Cunningham:
The vehicle license tax cut will reward effectively those drivers of vehicles that have high miles per gallon. It's a tiered system such that you'll have a -- at the first tier if your vehicle gets between 31 and 35 mile per gallon you'll have a 25\% reduction in your vehicle license tax. There's a tier for 36 to 40 and 41 to 45. If your vehicle achieves 46 miles per gallon or more you effectively will be exempt from the vehicle license tax and the fee is like $10.

Jose Cardenas:
So it's an inducement for those who conserve fuel with the use of that type of vehicle. So somebody who drives a hummer won't get much of a benefit.

George Cunningham:
A person who drives a Hummer unless they replace the motor with a single cycle engine, I doubt that they would get this.

Jose Cardenas:
Let's talk quickly about some of the back to school tax credits.

George Cunningham:
The governor has offered a sales tax holiday to the legislature for consideration. What this would do is it would allow for a cessation of the imposition of the sales tax for a three-day period in the first week of august. Principally for the purchase of school supplies, clothing and computers. There's limits on the single item.

Jose Cardenas:
We have that on the screen right now. $100 for school clothes.

George Cunningham:
That's correct. $50 for supplies and $1,000 for computer. A person can buy a piece of clothing that would normally be $50 and they would normally pay approximately 8.2\% on that in sales tax. Rather than paying $54 they would pay $50 for that.

Michael Grant:
Recently in response to the governor's proposals on the budget in the state of the state address, I interviewed Senate President Ken Bennett and House Speaker Jim Weiers. Here's a portion of that interview. What's the current estimate on full implementation on voluntary all-day k?

Sen. Ken Bennett:
Based on the first two years which we have done, about 10\% and total combined about 30, 40 million, the remaining step in one year would be in excess of 200 million more.

Michael Grant:
All day K seems to be, and I have reviewed various polling sources, so I don't rely strictly on one source, seems to be an enormously politically popular idea. Is there anything in this for the legislature really to resist this idea?

Sen. Ken Bennett:
Well, I think one of the reasons why it's popular is that the legislature several years ago put over $30 million a year into a k-3 funding program that basically allowed districts to decide however they wanted to spend that money. Many are using those dollars to already provide all day k. Even by the governor's budget office's own admission, when she suggested all-day k a couple of years ago, almost half the state was already providing all day k, and most of what we have funded already and would be fund over the next couple of phases is a replacement of dollars that were already used for that purpose. So it doesn't surprise me, or many of us, that it's popular because it's already out there. It's just a matter of do you want to replace it with other dollars.

Michael Grant:
But doesn't the story read this way: governor proposes all day k, legislature rejects it and you end up on the short end of the stick.

Rep. Jim Weiers:
Yeah, if that's the way that the question is and that's the way that it's answered. One of the things that we did that caught everybody off guard, we weren't trying to be cute or come in under the radar, but we did send out a questionnaire to all the school districts asking them for the prioritization. I think that's where you start. If you have a limited amount of money to spend, you can't say we're going to do everything lousy. Let's give a little bit to everything so at the end of the day you have a bunch of lousy things that receive more money. You have to say, what are you going to do and are you going to do it right and fully fund it. It was really surprising the districts that did respond before there was a political group that said, what are you doing? You're crazy by answering this. You're answering a question which you should never do. All day kindergarten was not in the top 3, 4, 5, 6 in order of prioritization.

Michael Grant:
What about the proposal for a $30,000 base pay for all teachers?

Rep. Jim Weiers:
Well, when you have standard amount that comes into basic aid, the districts make the determination where they will spend the money. There are districts that can -- there's different starting wages all across. If you're going to unify across the board and say 30,000, are you then going to cap as to what you can make? Are you going to say five years, ten years, what not --

Michael Grant:
You don't think it's a good idea?

Rep. Jim Weiers:
30,000 for a teacher? A lot of the districts that I know of start at 30, 31,000 anyway.

Michael Grant:
What about mandating a $30,000 base pay for all teachers? Good idea, bad idea?

Sen. Ken Bennett:
I think teachers are -- good teachers are worth much more than that, whether they are starting or well into their career. Most of the districts I think the speaker is eluding to have always said, we want to make that decision. We want to control our salary schedules, and many are already in excess of 30 as a starting and nearing the mid 40's as an average. So it's kind of a dichotomy, you want to have a statewide teacher pay schedule? Most of the districts have not received that very well.

Michael Grant:
Mr. Bennett you and the speaker suggested $250 million in tax relief. Let's focus on the approach. The governor seemed to be suggesting with her figure that it should be targeted. I get the impression perhaps tax credits and others for high-tech, nanotech and other tech. I think the reading your and Jim Weiers' comments you think broad-based tax relief would be more appropriate, lowering of the income tax rate generally. Am I in the ballpark?

Sen. Ken Bennett:
I think that's been one of our themes. If you're going to do some tax reform or cutting, try to do it in a way so that you not only reward the people who are already here doing the job of making this state go but that you make Arizona a more attractive place for businesses who are looking at bringing high paid jobs somewhere an if we can address, for example, the marginal tax rates on income tax or if we can -- I think we have another group at the legislature that are focused on the property tax side where we're still relatively high as far as business property taxes, if you can do something that rewards the people that are already here and makes Arizona more competitive and attractive and bring even more and better, higher paying jobs in, maybe you've really done something instead of targeting it so narrowly that you really just kind of reward a few people, some of who are already doing it.

Michael Grant:
We will continue our series on legislative issues tomorrow night. We'll be taking a look at various education issues. In the 30's, visionary architect Frank Lloyd Wright moved to Arizona. He brought his family; he brought his apprentices from his summer home in Wisconsin. He began constructing what would be known as Taliesin west. The institution would grow and prosper near the McDowell Mountains in Scottsdale. Producers Larry Lemmons and videographers Richard Torruellas and Scot Olson bring tonight's Arizona story.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
This is called the drafting room of the studio. Actually, it was the first room built. This block here was the first masonry involved. In Arizona you can't dress or till the stone. We thought, let's put the flat part of the stone against the form, concrete behind it. Then the beams overhead carry the canvas flats. This is actually dressing room, living room, and dining room. The first room built was the kitchen. That's central to the whole thing. He called it a galley because he referred to Taliesin-west like a ship afloat on the desert with the white canvas, like a ship on the desert.

Larry Lemmons:
The view from the prow of Frank Lloyd Wright's ship on the desert, the Scottsdale landscape is virtually pristine although signs of civilization invade the Horizon. Looking back toward the prow, the McDowell Mountains rise behind the vessel. Taliesin-west has grown incrementally and organically over the years from the desert floor.

Vernon Swaback:
Taliesin-west is a statement of a very heroic person, a very heroic nature of someone who first programmed the life to be experienced in these structures and then designed the structures to support that.

Larry Lemmons:
Considered a visionary today, the iconoclastic architect Frank Lloyd Wright sometimes faced ridicule in his day when he advanced a theory of organic architecture. He believed form and function are one, that a structure and a site are one.

Vernon Swaback:
What he wanted was for architecture in his words to be a natural consort to the ground, for people and the lives of people to be a flowering of the spirit of the land, one and the same. Both being nature, both being natural. What is natural is not always architectural but what is architectural must always be natural.

Larry Lemmons:
Wright bridged the gap between environmental idealism and development. Taliesin-west is an exemplar of this idea, reflecting a great respect for the land.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
He came out about 1927, 1928, working with the Biltmore as a consultant, and fell in love with the desert. He loved it, a contrast to Wisconsin.

Larry Lemmons:
On a Wisconsin hilltop he built the original Taliesin in 1911. Taliesin means shining brow. It served as home, office and summer location for his apprentices. He found the site for Taliesin-west in 1937.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
When Wright came here with his wife and children and a dog and about 25 young men and women who were his apprentices. With just that work force they built Taliesin-west. Picked stones off the side of the mountain, sand from the washes, concrete, beams, white canvas.

Larry Lemmons:
Bruce Pfeiffer came to Taliesin as an apprentice 50 years ago.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
I enjoyed it, read by candlelight. At that time we really were in the wilderness.

Larry Lemmons:
Vernon Swaback began his apprenticeship in 1957.

Vernon Swaback:
I have a very nice house. The architecture has been very good to me, but as a teenager I lived in a tent, which had a depressed slab about eight feet square. It was a red canvas sheepherder's tent that opened on both sides. The floor was all kind of cushioned and carpeted with colorful pillows around it with kerosene lanterns I felt was more like the Arabian knights instead of a boy scout. At night instead of getting in a car and driving home through crowded freeways and finding a house with lots of garage doors and divorced from nature, I walked out into the blackness of night, quiet, mystical, and when I went to sleep in my little tent I was part of all of that. I have said it often and I can say it without fear of reservation that in many ways I will never live that well again.

Larry Lemmons:
From the beginning at Taliesin-west, the apprentices learned from their mentor and collectively built what is now the home of both the Frank Lloyd Wright foundation and the Frank Lloyd Wright school of architecture. There's a theatre on site as well as a cabaret. Life was a mixture of manual labor and social functions.

Vernon Swaback:
Our little inside joke about that would be that it's mandatory to have a sleeping bag and a tuxedo.

Larry Lemmons:
The living quarters in the Wrights' house were unpretentious, tending to be relatively small. But filled with beautiful art and cultural clues.

Vernon Swaback:
I think the most exciting thing about this room as well as all of Taliesin-west, is coming out to the middle of an undeveloped desert and rather than thinking in terms of survival or shelter, there's this immediate sense of grand pianos and wide open spaces and Indian blankets and just the celebration of cultural life.

Larry Lemmons:
Wright worked tirelessly and imbued his apprentices with vision and purpose.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
I think that's one thing that kept him young. He surrounded himself with youth. For him youth is a quality -- youth is not age, youth is a quality.

Larry Lemmons:
There were 70 to 90 apprentices at Taliesin at the time of Wright's death, all of whom carried with them a reflection of his vision.

Vernon Swaback:
In Wright's words, culture is a way of making life beautiful. Beauty to him was not prettiness or taste or fashion. Beauty was fundamentally something that worked like life itself.

Bruce Pfeiffer:
Buildings which are in harmony with nature, buildings which are dedicated to the human being.

Merry Lucero:
Governor Napolitano proposes several education initiatives under her budget plan. Among them, voluntary all day kindergarten and a teacher pay increase. Join us as we continue a weeklong series on the top issues before the legislature Tuesday at 7:00 on Horizon.

Michael Grant:
Wednesday we will continue our legislative series with a look at the immigration issue. Thursday we'll focus on bilingual education. Thank you for joining us on this Monday evening. I'm Michael Grant. Have a great one. Goodnight.

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