Horizon, Host: Ted Simons

September 8, 2005


Host: Michael Grant

salvation Army Hurricane Relief


  • The Salvation Army has set up a donation center to help victims of Hurricane Katrina now living in Veteran's Memorial Coliseum in Phoenix. The center has been a huge success, with Valley residents responding quickly to the needs of the hurricane survivors. We'll talk to a Salvation Army official about the relief effort.
Guests:
  • Dr. George Watson - Professor of Political Science, Arizona State University
  • George Dean - President and CEO, Greater Phoenix Urban League
  • Adam Morales - Salvation Army Captain


View Transcript
>> Michael Grant:
Tonight on "Horizon", John Roberts' nomination has been elevated from Justice to Chief Justice after the death of Chief Justice William Rehnquist. We'll talk about the implications of that. For 60 years now, the Phoenix Urban League has been helping the disadvantaged. We'll have more on what the Urban League does. Plus, a look at the local Salvation Army donation center which is brimming with donated items for the victims of hurricane Katrina. More on those topics next on "Horizon".

>> Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by the friends of Channel 8, members who provide financial support to this Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

>> Michael Grant:
Good evening and welcome to "Horizon". I'm Michael Grant. Before we get to our main topics tonight, Maricopa County has reported its first West Nile virus death for the 2005 season. A northwest valley man in his 60s died from West Nile on Monday. It was confirmed just today that the death was indeed from West Nile. So far this year, 21 lab-confirmed human cases of West Nile have been reported in Maricopa County. Chief justice William Rehnquist was laid to rest yesterday. Rehnquist, who worked as a lawyer in Phoenix during the 50's and 60's, died of cancer over the weekend. Soon after, President Bush renominated John Roberts to the position of Chief Justice. Here now to talk about the nomination and the changes on the court is Dr. George Watson, professor of political science in the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. George has written a book on the Supreme Court nomination process titled: "Shaping America: The Politics of Supreme Court appointments." George, I didn't know there were politics involved in Supreme Court nominations. Bite your tongue.

>> George Watson:
Every nomination is political whether it's controversial or non-controversial. So if the President chooses to go the non controversial route, that's a political decision. And I think with Bush we'll probably see some controversy.

>> Michael Grant: I have heard a couple of different theories, let me get yours. Was it good politics for the president to look around and say, well, you know, on second thought why doesn't John Roberts become CJ instead of associate justice or not?

>> George Watson: I think it probably was good politics for the president. There is some speculation that maybe Roberts was being put on the court for eventual elevation to chief justice anyway. I think he was very intent on getting the chief justice position filled. I think it was a good move on his part.

>> Michael Grant:
There are mixed opinions on that. One other theory is that, well, with the elevation to the chief justice, this gives John Roberts more clout, certainly the opportunity to leave a stronger, longer legacy perhaps than associate justice. That could make the confirmation process more difficult. I think one of the problems with that theory is that everyone is sort of general agreement that John Roberts is going to be confirmed.

>> George Watson:
I think there's no doubt that he will be confirmed pending some surprise that none of us seem to know about. I think he will be a good chief justice. He's already quite well known to the justices on the court. They seem to highly respect him. I think he will probably do well as a chief justice.

>> Michael Grant:
If memory serves, something like 29 occurrences before the high court. That's quite a record for an attorney.

>> George Watson:
That's a good number.

>> Michael Grant:
That's right. What are you hearing about John Roberts' confirmation hearings start on Monday but there's this associate justice position hanging around. What are you hearing recently about the speed President Bush will move to fill the second spot?

>> George Watson:
Initially the president said he was going to fill it very quickly. Then they had second thoughts about doing that. The thought of having two vacancies being filled at the same time could have played into the Democrats' hands a little bit in terms of flexibility for choosing the way they might oppose even Roberts. So, they went ahead and made the Roberts nomination. Now they're going to hold off a little bit, probably to make sure that the Roberts issue is moot and no longer available as an issue and also because now the president is constrained a little more on the choice for the O'Connor replacement. They may want to have second thoughts about who they are going to pick for that position.

>> Michael Grant:
When did Supreme Court nominations become a contact sport?

>> George Watson:
A lot of people would argue it was with Robert Bork in 1987,because that was certainly a rejection of a nominee where there was advertising in the newspaper and so forth, but you can go back a long ways to Justice Brandeis in 1916. I think the advent of television, broadcasting the hearings with Sandra O'Connor has elevated to this public attention, particularly if senators know they can get television time, advocacy groups know they can get more television time, they're going to pay more attention.

>> Michael Grant:
I have thought from time to time it was the Watergate hearings that maybe triggered the general thought. You're absolutely right the Sandra O'Connor hearings were the first broadcast gavel to gavel. Senators saw the opportunity to play a number of roles, I think, correct?

>> George Watson:
I think so. There are certainly a number of different roles they can play. One, there may be some who have not made up their mind about the nominee so we would like to think -- a lot of people would like to think that the senators are there evaluating the justice, not having any idea what they're going to do until they hear from him. There probably aren't very many of those on the Senate judiciary committee right now.

>> Michael Grant:
Asking a question and really wanting an answer.

>> George Watson:
And really wanting an answer that can help them make a decision.

>> Michael Grant:
Let's rule that one out.

>> George Watson:
Well, ruling that one out, there are also going to be some partisans. Oren Hatch, I would be surprised if Oren Hatch didn't open up by saying how wonderful the nominee is, how wonderful Roberts is, how well suited he is for the chief justice position, how he's done this and that. And then he will ask Roberts questions that are designed to make Roberts look really good. There are some democrats who aren't quite ready to do that. I don't think there are any Democrats ready to say we are frankly opposed to Roberts, but there are some who would fulfill the role, I call it a validater role. Some of these Democrats are pretty sure they are going they're going to vote for Roberts. They are going to ask some very challenging and penetrating questions to see how he responds. It's conceivable, not too likely, but conceivable that Roberts could stumble. The validater role could turn into a no vote.

>> Michael Grant: One of the things I saw during the O'Connor hearings and subsequent hearings was sensitizing, on an issue.

>> George Watson:
That's a big role, I labeled that one an advocate role. For example, Joseph Biden knew he would vote for Sandra O'Connor, but he wanted to influence her to stand up for women's issues. He gave a passionate speech about her being the first woman on the court, it was her duty to speak forth on women's issues, and be a role model and so forth. There are many senators who will try to get in the nominee's head and try to get at some of these issues.

>> Michael Grant:
Tough to forcast, but any particular role that you think would be most predominant in next week's confirmation hearings?

>> George Watson:
I think among the Republicans you are going to see partisan roles in allowing Roberts to look good. When you get down the line, where it's harder and harder to ask questions, you may ask questions more in this advocate role where you're not necessarily trying to get in the justice's mind but playing to your constituents, that you're here on Capitol hill doing the job. The Democrat side, the validater role, you'll see those people trying to get into Roberts' head and say we're concerned about the direction of the court and we're concerned about you and some of these issues.

>> Michael Grant:
Let me cycle back to the associate justice position. I think we have agreed it's not going to happen soon, but would the president be likely, though, once John Roberts clears the nomination, he does have a commitment of course from Justice O'Connor that she will stay until a replacement is in place. But does he do that late September, mid October? Does he hold off for awhile longer?

>> George Watson:
I would anticipate he would do is sooner rather than later. I think he would like to replace O'Connor. She is still is that middle vote and I think he would just as soon see her off the court replaced by someone more conservative. This is the nomination to key on, this is the nomination where everybody may take the gloves off and battle. Depends on whether Bush wants a battle or not. It's up to him to make the initial choice and up to the opposition to decide whether they can fight a battle on it.

>> Michael Grant:
Do you subscribe that the next nomination needs to be a woman or minority?

>> George Watson:
I would be disappointed if he didn't do that, I fully expect him not to go with an Anglo male. He is more constrained now. This could be his last nomination to the court. I think he would like to appoint the first Latino to the court.

>> Michael Grant:
George Watson, always a pleasure, thank you.

>> George Watson:
Thank you.

>>Michael Grant:
Racism against black Americans was rampant in Phoenix during the 1940's as it was all across America. The city had been settled by whites and blacks from the south, and they brought racial attitudes from that region of the country to the valley. In the heat of that oppression, the Phoenix urban league was founded. We'll talk to the head of the greater Phoenix urban league. But first, Mike Sauceda tells us more about conditions faced by blacks during the 1940's.

>> Mike Sauceda:
At the start of the 1940's, Phoenix was a relatively small town, just over 65,000 people. 4200 of those residents were African Americans. About six and a half percent of the population. Although the city boasted wide avenues and continuing progress, things were not as rosy for blacks and other minorities.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
The first thing I think of is Ralph Ellison, the invisible man. Because to a certain extent, African Americans were experiencing the various problems of progress that exist in all communities. At the same time, they were living against the backdrop of a segregated society. Things like this get folks talking, so sometimes you have to engage controversial topics to get folks emotions up, so they start speaking.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Dr. Matthew Whitaker is an associate professor of history at Arizona state University, who specializes in African American history. He says blacks were confined to the southern part of the Phoenix, many living in substandard housing.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
They were for the most part. You had some of the highest numbers of substandard housing in those particular areas. Some areas were fortunate to have clean water. We're talking about, in some areas squalor, quite frankly..

>> Mike Sauceda:
In the 1940's, while there were black professionals and business owners, the majority of African Americans worked in menial jobs.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
You were considered a professional if you were fortunate to be a teacher. If you were a bellhop, that was considered a quote unquote good job. You worked inside, wore a uniform. You made more money thank folks working the field. By and large, most African Americans worked in agricultural positions, menial positions, they picked cotton. They farmed. They worked on ranches. Black women for the most part were domestic workers.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Although Arizona did not have Jim Crow laws, segregation existed on all levels of society for blacks in Phoenix.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
Schools were segregated, places of public accommodation were segregated. I don't know of any specific code that was passed, like you would find in Mississippi or Alabama, that segregated people of color specifically African American. But this was a very segregated city and everyone understood it was segregated.

>> Mike Sauceda:
It was in the atmosphere of oppression and racism that the Phoenix Urban League was formed in September of 1945, aimed at helping blacks get into professional jobs and deal with living in an urban area. The urban league here formed 35 years after the first urban league was founded in New York City. Today the urban league has expanded to help people of all races with employment, housing, education, and business advice. Whitaker says, despite progress made against discrimination, there is still a need for the urban league.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
As long as that exists, as long as you have urbanites who, for whatever reason, stand at the margins and who need to be incorporated into the possibilities of the urban community, there will be a home for institutions like the urban league.

>> Michael Grant:
Here now to tell us about the urban league is the president and CEO of the greater Phoenix urban league, George Dean. George, happy 60th!

>> George Dean:
Thank you, Michael. Thank you for having me here, number one. And thank you for saying happy 60th. We're very excited about it.

>> Michael Grant:
How long have you been involved with the urban league?

>> George Dean:
30-plus years. We're very happy that the urban league has been able to survive. And provide services to residents of the valley of the sun for 60 years. When you see the kind of conditions and situations that the society was in during that period of time and to have survived that and still be going strong today, we think is quite an accomplishment, we feel good about it.

>> Michael Grant:
Survive and prosper. Let's go back to 1945. Sympathetic whites were involved, as well, in the founding of the urban league, were they not?

>> George Dean:
Very much so. That has been the history of the urban league. The national urban league started in 1910, because of some sympathetic whites in New York City. It spread and 35 years later, the same thing happened here in Phoenix. There have always been, we have always had a society with good people, and people concerned about fellow human beings, regardless whether they are black, brown, white, whatever. That certainly was the case as far as those individuals back in 1944 and actually getting it started in 1945.

>> Michael Grant:
Over the intervening six decades, the mission of the league expanded from just black to disadvantaged.

>> George Dean:
I think that came about because of the 1964 civil rights act that talked about you can't discriminate based on race, creed, color and so forth. And came to the realization of the urban league, not only in Phoenix, but nationwide that there are people that are disadvantaged, that can utilize the kind of services that we have to provide all over and that is especially true here in the southwest, I would say, in Arizona where we represent some 4\% of the population. The largest minority, the largest poverty, the largest disadvantaged individuals are not necessarily all African Americans.

>> Michael Grant:
Let's take it to 2005 and talk about some of the urban league programs. You have a head start program?

>> George Dean:
Yes, we do. I like to say the urban league serves from the cradle to the grave. We start with head start with three and four-year-olds. We also have a charter school that we operate in conjunction with Arizona opportunities industrialization center. We have a college prep program for high school students, starting in freshman years, preparing them to take the SAT exam and get them, that will get them scores to enter into college or universities in the country. We do computer training from an educational standpoint. We do small business assistance from an educational standpoint, taking entrepreneurs or those who want to be entrepreneurs and assisting them in how to start a business, how to write a business plan, how to put a loan package together. These are all factors of things that we do in terms of educating individuals.

>> Michael Grant:
Housing programs?

>> George Dean:
Very important. Very important. Needless to say -

>> Michael Grant:
Particularly in this real estate market.

>> George Dean:
Affordable housing is really at a critical state and has been for awhile. We have a senior citizen project, section 8, for some 24 years. Seniors 62 and older. We started with a private developer in terms of a partnership to build affordable housing throughout this valley here. I'm very pleased to say that we have been able to come up with almost 800 units of affordable housing units that we are doing in a partnership with a developer that is making the difference in lives of a lot of people.

>> Michael Grant:
George Dean, greater Phoenix urban league, thanks for being here. And again, congratulations on number 60.

>> George Dean:
Thank you, Mike.

>> Michael Grant:
One newspaper account described a stack of boxed diapers the size of a Toyota at the Salvation Army's donation center in southwest Phoenix. The center will continue accepting donations through tomorrow to help Hurricane Katrina evacuees now housed in the valley. I'll talk to a captain in the Salvation Army more about donations. But first, Merry Lucero spent some time yesterday at the donation center and has this report.

>> Merry Lucero:
A line of cars filed into the Salvation Army parking lot at Van Buren and 27th street in Phoenix. This is one way to give for the thousands of people who feel compelled to try to help.

>> Bruce Rogers:
People are really being wonderful. They have opened their hearts and checkbooks, they have opened up everything and really have supplied the refugees with everything they need.

>> Merry Lucero:
New shoes, clothing, hygiene products, water, diapers and other items pour in.

>> Somebody has to do something to help these folks.

>> This is the closest place that I could help contribute other than money over the internet.

>> They need it today, I might need it tomorrow. We have to give something of ourselves to fellow Americans. We are America. We are all together.

>> Merry Lucero:
New items are needed most.

>> Bruce Rogers:
the used items serve a purpose. We have maxed out the used items so we are stressing new items, especially men's clothing, we need larger sized men's pants and watches, eyeglasses, reading glasses, because when they left, they left a lot of that stuff behind.

>> Merry Lucero:
But for now, cash is best.

>> Bruce Rogers:
Cash donations enable us to really take care of the need that arises in an emergency situation, that maybe we haven't thought about.

>> Merry Lucero:
Donations will be accepted here Friday from 9 to 5.

>> Michael Grant:
With me now to tell us more about the Salvation Army's relief efforts for victims of the hurricane is Salvation Army Captain Adam Morales. You guys, this was just a tremendous outpouring. Did it catch you at least somewhat off guard?

>> Adam Morales:
No, we knew it would happen. It happens every time there is disaster. Everyone is really generous.

>> Michael Grant:
I know one of the figures that I heard, I think it was Tuesday, $100,000 in goods in about a 24 hour period?

>> Adam Morales:
Yes, it just started pouring in. By Tuesday, the -- the line was down the block.

>> Michael Grant:
What are the current conditions? We talked to someone at the Red Cross and got an update. Give us an idea what's happening at the coliseum.

>> Adam Morales:
Right now, there are about 450 victims living there. And there are many agencies set up to help the victims. Job fair will be going on. There's a, we have a distribution center of items we are collecting, we are distributing them to people at the coliseum.

>> Michael Grant:
It's difficult to imagine taking a facility not designed for that purpose and converting it as rapidly as it was that can house 450 people.

>> Adam Morales:
Right. Spaces are limited in areas, so it is a tight squeeze. It's not some place people would want to live for a long time.

>> Michael Grant:
let's get back to the effort here. What kind of donation needs have already been met for the Salvation Army?

>> Adam Morales:
Most of the goods in kind have met, the clothing, the diaper, the water, those have been met.

>> Michael Grant:
Personal items, those sort of things?

>> Adam Morales:
Right. We're full up on those items.

>> Michael Grant: What needs remain? Highest priority. We'll get to cash in a moment. Someone mentioned a couple of items on the tape piece, eyeglasses.

>> Adam Morales:
I think we're down to cash now. To meet those limited needs, like we needed 200 pair of reading glasses. If we said on the news we need reading glasses, we would have gotten 10,000 pair. With the cash, we can quickly go out and purchase those 200 reading glasses and deliver them to the folks that need them.

>> Michael Grant:
It gives you a lot more flexibility. I'm up to 1.75, I used to be at 1.50. Donation center is closing tomorrow?

>> Adam Morales:
Tomorrow at 5:00, yes.

>> Michael Grant:
How difficult have been the logistics been in this operation? I know you just received a ton of stuff.

>> Adam Morales:
We're used to it. We have structured set ups already, so we fall right into place.

>> Michael Grant:
What sort of role does Salvation Army play in disasters like this, other than just taking these donations?

>> Adam Morales:
The Salvation Army is always on the front line of disaster, the same as the Red Cross. Anything that needs to be done, the Salvation Army can do it, the feeding, housing, counseling. The difference between the Salvation Army and Red Cross is that the Salvation Army is there for the long term. When the disaster is declared over, the Salvation Army still remains to continue helping the victims in the communities.

>> Michael Grant:
Captain Adam Morales, you and the rest of the Salvation Army have our thanks.

>> Adam Morales:
Thank you.

>> Michael Grant:
If you'd like more information about "Horizon", go to our website at www.azpbs.org. Once you get to our home page, click on the word "Horizon" to see if transcripts or information about upcoming shows. Speaking of which, tomorrow the Friday journalists' roundtable will not be seen so that we can bring you a live concert to raise funds for hurricane Katrina victims. Sheryl Crow, Rod Stewart, Ellen DeGeneres and Chris rock are among the stars expected to help raise funds during the one-hour event. That's tomorrow here on channel 8. Thanks for being here this evening. I'm Michael Grant. Good night.

U.S. Supreme Court


  • With the death of U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice William Rehnquist, President Bush has elevated John Roberts' nomination to take over as Chief Justice. George Watson, an ASU professor who has written a book about the nomination process, will talk about the Roberts' nomination and what it means to the court.
Guests:
  • Dr. George Watson - Professor of Political Science, Arizona State University
  • George Dean - President and CEO, Greater Phoenix Urban League
  • Adam Morales - Salvation Army Captain


View Transcript
>> Michael Grant:
Tonight on "Horizon", John Roberts' nomination has been elevated from Justice to Chief Justice after the death of Chief Justice William Rehnquist. We'll talk about the implications of that. For 60 years now, the Phoenix Urban League has been helping the disadvantaged. We'll have more on what the Urban League does. Plus, a look at the local Salvation Army donation center which is brimming with donated items for the victims of hurricane Katrina. More on those topics next on "Horizon".

>> Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by the friends of Channel 8, members who provide financial support to this Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

>> Michael Grant:
Good evening and welcome to "Horizon". I'm Michael Grant. Before we get to our main topics tonight, Maricopa County has reported its first West Nile virus death for the 2005 season. A northwest valley man in his 60s died from West Nile on Monday. It was confirmed just today that the death was indeed from West Nile. So far this year, 21 lab-confirmed human cases of West Nile have been reported in Maricopa County. Chief justice William Rehnquist was laid to rest yesterday. Rehnquist, who worked as a lawyer in Phoenix during the 50's and 60's, died of cancer over the weekend. Soon after, President Bush renominated John Roberts to the position of Chief Justice. Here now to talk about the nomination and the changes on the court is Dr. George Watson, professor of political science in the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. George has written a book on the Supreme Court nomination process titled: "Shaping America: The Politics of Supreme Court appointments." George, I didn't know there were politics involved in Supreme Court nominations. Bite your tongue.

>> George Watson:
Every nomination is political whether it's controversial or non-controversial. So if the President chooses to go the non controversial route, that's a political decision. And I think with Bush we'll probably see some controversy.

>> Michael Grant: I have heard a couple of different theories, let me get yours. Was it good politics for the president to look around and say, well, you know, on second thought why doesn't John Roberts become CJ instead of associate justice or not?

>> George Watson: I think it probably was good politics for the president. There is some speculation that maybe Roberts was being put on the court for eventual elevation to chief justice anyway. I think he was very intent on getting the chief justice position filled. I think it was a good move on his part.

>> Michael Grant:
There are mixed opinions on that. One other theory is that, well, with the elevation to the chief justice, this gives John Roberts more clout, certainly the opportunity to leave a stronger, longer legacy perhaps than associate justice. That could make the confirmation process more difficult. I think one of the problems with that theory is that everyone is sort of general agreement that John Roberts is going to be confirmed.

>> George Watson:
I think there's no doubt that he will be confirmed pending some surprise that none of us seem to know about. I think he will be a good chief justice. He's already quite well known to the justices on the court. They seem to highly respect him. I think he will probably do well as a chief justice.

>> Michael Grant:
If memory serves, something like 29 occurrences before the high court. That's quite a record for an attorney.

>> George Watson:
That's a good number.

>> Michael Grant:
That's right. What are you hearing about John Roberts' confirmation hearings start on Monday but there's this associate justice position hanging around. What are you hearing recently about the speed President Bush will move to fill the second spot?

>> George Watson:
Initially the president said he was going to fill it very quickly. Then they had second thoughts about doing that. The thought of having two vacancies being filled at the same time could have played into the Democrats' hands a little bit in terms of flexibility for choosing the way they might oppose even Roberts. So, they went ahead and made the Roberts nomination. Now they're going to hold off a little bit, probably to make sure that the Roberts issue is moot and no longer available as an issue and also because now the president is constrained a little more on the choice for the O'Connor replacement. They may want to have second thoughts about who they are going to pick for that position.

>> Michael Grant:
When did Supreme Court nominations become a contact sport?

>> George Watson:
A lot of people would argue it was with Robert Bork in 1987,because that was certainly a rejection of a nominee where there was advertising in the newspaper and so forth, but you can go back a long ways to Justice Brandeis in 1916. I think the advent of television, broadcasting the hearings with Sandra O'Connor has elevated to this public attention, particularly if senators know they can get television time, advocacy groups know they can get more television time, they're going to pay more attention.

>> Michael Grant:
I have thought from time to time it was the Watergate hearings that maybe triggered the general thought. You're absolutely right the Sandra O'Connor hearings were the first broadcast gavel to gavel. Senators saw the opportunity to play a number of roles, I think, correct?

>> George Watson:
I think so. There are certainly a number of different roles they can play. One, there may be some who have not made up their mind about the nominee so we would like to think -- a lot of people would like to think that the senators are there evaluating the justice, not having any idea what they're going to do until they hear from him. There probably aren't very many of those on the Senate judiciary committee right now.

>> Michael Grant:
Asking a question and really wanting an answer.

>> George Watson:
And really wanting an answer that can help them make a decision.

>> Michael Grant:
Let's rule that one out.

>> George Watson:
Well, ruling that one out, there are also going to be some partisans. Oren Hatch, I would be surprised if Oren Hatch didn't open up by saying how wonderful the nominee is, how wonderful Roberts is, how well suited he is for the chief justice position, how he's done this and that. And then he will ask Roberts questions that are designed to make Roberts look really good. There are some democrats who aren't quite ready to do that. I don't think there are any Democrats ready to say we are frankly opposed to Roberts, but there are some who would fulfill the role, I call it a validater role. Some of these Democrats are pretty sure they are going they're going to vote for Roberts. They are going to ask some very challenging and penetrating questions to see how he responds. It's conceivable, not too likely, but conceivable that Roberts could stumble. The validater role could turn into a no vote.

>> Michael Grant: One of the things I saw during the O'Connor hearings and subsequent hearings was sensitizing, on an issue.

>> George Watson:
That's a big role, I labeled that one an advocate role. For example, Joseph Biden knew he would vote for Sandra O'Connor, but he wanted to influence her to stand up for women's issues. He gave a passionate speech about her being the first woman on the court, it was her duty to speak forth on women's issues, and be a role model and so forth. There are many senators who will try to get in the nominee's head and try to get at some of these issues.

>> Michael Grant:
Tough to forcast, but any particular role that you think would be most predominant in next week's confirmation hearings?

>> George Watson:
I think among the Republicans you are going to see partisan roles in allowing Roberts to look good. When you get down the line, where it's harder and harder to ask questions, you may ask questions more in this advocate role where you're not necessarily trying to get in the justice's mind but playing to your constituents, that you're here on Capitol hill doing the job. The Democrat side, the validater role, you'll see those people trying to get into Roberts' head and say we're concerned about the direction of the court and we're concerned about you and some of these issues.

>> Michael Grant:
Let me cycle back to the associate justice position. I think we have agreed it's not going to happen soon, but would the president be likely, though, once John Roberts clears the nomination, he does have a commitment of course from Justice O'Connor that she will stay until a replacement is in place. But does he do that late September, mid October? Does he hold off for awhile longer?

>> George Watson:
I would anticipate he would do is sooner rather than later. I think he would like to replace O'Connor. She is still is that middle vote and I think he would just as soon see her off the court replaced by someone more conservative. This is the nomination to key on, this is the nomination where everybody may take the gloves off and battle. Depends on whether Bush wants a battle or not. It's up to him to make the initial choice and up to the opposition to decide whether they can fight a battle on it.

>> Michael Grant:
Do you subscribe that the next nomination needs to be a woman or minority?

>> George Watson:
I would be disappointed if he didn't do that, I fully expect him not to go with an Anglo male. He is more constrained now. This could be his last nomination to the court. I think he would like to appoint the first Latino to the court.

>> Michael Grant:
George Watson, always a pleasure, thank you.

>> George Watson:
Thank you.

>>Michael Grant:
Racism against black Americans was rampant in Phoenix during the 1940's as it was all across America. The city had been settled by whites and blacks from the south, and they brought racial attitudes from that region of the country to the valley. In the heat of that oppression, the Phoenix urban league was founded. We'll talk to the head of the greater Phoenix urban league. But first, Mike Sauceda tells us more about conditions faced by blacks during the 1940's.

>> Mike Sauceda:
At the start of the 1940's, Phoenix was a relatively small town, just over 65,000 people. 4200 of those residents were African Americans. About six and a half percent of the population. Although the city boasted wide avenues and continuing progress, things were not as rosy for blacks and other minorities.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
The first thing I think of is Ralph Ellison, the invisible man. Because to a certain extent, African Americans were experiencing the various problems of progress that exist in all communities. At the same time, they were living against the backdrop of a segregated society. Things like this get folks talking, so sometimes you have to engage controversial topics to get folks emotions up, so they start speaking.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Dr. Matthew Whitaker is an associate professor of history at Arizona state University, who specializes in African American history. He says blacks were confined to the southern part of the Phoenix, many living in substandard housing.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
They were for the most part. You had some of the highest numbers of substandard housing in those particular areas. Some areas were fortunate to have clean water. We're talking about, in some areas squalor, quite frankly..

>> Mike Sauceda:
In the 1940's, while there were black professionals and business owners, the majority of African Americans worked in menial jobs.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
You were considered a professional if you were fortunate to be a teacher. If you were a bellhop, that was considered a quote unquote good job. You worked inside, wore a uniform. You made more money thank folks working the field. By and large, most African Americans worked in agricultural positions, menial positions, they picked cotton. They farmed. They worked on ranches. Black women for the most part were domestic workers.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Although Arizona did not have Jim Crow laws, segregation existed on all levels of society for blacks in Phoenix.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
Schools were segregated, places of public accommodation were segregated. I don't know of any specific code that was passed, like you would find in Mississippi or Alabama, that segregated people of color specifically African American. But this was a very segregated city and everyone understood it was segregated.

>> Mike Sauceda:
It was in the atmosphere of oppression and racism that the Phoenix Urban League was formed in September of 1945, aimed at helping blacks get into professional jobs and deal with living in an urban area. The urban league here formed 35 years after the first urban league was founded in New York City. Today the urban league has expanded to help people of all races with employment, housing, education, and business advice. Whitaker says, despite progress made against discrimination, there is still a need for the urban league.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
As long as that exists, as long as you have urbanites who, for whatever reason, stand at the margins and who need to be incorporated into the possibilities of the urban community, there will be a home for institutions like the urban league.

>> Michael Grant:
Here now to tell us about the urban league is the president and CEO of the greater Phoenix urban league, George Dean. George, happy 60th!

>> George Dean:
Thank you, Michael. Thank you for having me here, number one. And thank you for saying happy 60th. We're very excited about it.

>> Michael Grant:
How long have you been involved with the urban league?

>> George Dean:
30-plus years. We're very happy that the urban league has been able to survive. And provide services to residents of the valley of the sun for 60 years. When you see the kind of conditions and situations that the society was in during that period of time and to have survived that and still be going strong today, we think is quite an accomplishment, we feel good about it.

>> Michael Grant:
Survive and prosper. Let's go back to 1945. Sympathetic whites were involved, as well, in the founding of the urban league, were they not?

>> George Dean:
Very much so. That has been the history of the urban league. The national urban league started in 1910, because of some sympathetic whites in New York City. It spread and 35 years later, the same thing happened here in Phoenix. There have always been, we have always had a society with good people, and people concerned about fellow human beings, regardless whether they are black, brown, white, whatever. That certainly was the case as far as those individuals back in 1944 and actually getting it started in 1945.

>> Michael Grant:
Over the intervening six decades, the mission of the league expanded from just black to disadvantaged.

>> George Dean:
I think that came about because of the 1964 civil rights act that talked about you can't discriminate based on race, creed, color and so forth. And came to the realization of the urban league, not only in Phoenix, but nationwide that there are people that are disadvantaged, that can utilize the kind of services that we have to provide all over and that is especially true here in the southwest, I would say, in Arizona where we represent some 4\% of the population. The largest minority, the largest poverty, the largest disadvantaged individuals are not necessarily all African Americans.

>> Michael Grant:
Let's take it to 2005 and talk about some of the urban league programs. You have a head start program?

>> George Dean:
Yes, we do. I like to say the urban league serves from the cradle to the grave. We start with head start with three and four-year-olds. We also have a charter school that we operate in conjunction with Arizona opportunities industrialization center. We have a college prep program for high school students, starting in freshman years, preparing them to take the SAT exam and get them, that will get them scores to enter into college or universities in the country. We do computer training from an educational standpoint. We do small business assistance from an educational standpoint, taking entrepreneurs or those who want to be entrepreneurs and assisting them in how to start a business, how to write a business plan, how to put a loan package together. These are all factors of things that we do in terms of educating individuals.

>> Michael Grant:
Housing programs?

>> George Dean:
Very important. Very important. Needless to say -

>> Michael Grant:
Particularly in this real estate market.

>> George Dean:
Affordable housing is really at a critical state and has been for awhile. We have a senior citizen project, section 8, for some 24 years. Seniors 62 and older. We started with a private developer in terms of a partnership to build affordable housing throughout this valley here. I'm very pleased to say that we have been able to come up with almost 800 units of affordable housing units that we are doing in a partnership with a developer that is making the difference in lives of a lot of people.

>> Michael Grant:
George Dean, greater Phoenix urban league, thanks for being here. And again, congratulations on number 60.

>> George Dean:
Thank you, Mike.

>> Michael Grant:
One newspaper account described a stack of boxed diapers the size of a Toyota at the Salvation Army's donation center in southwest Phoenix. The center will continue accepting donations through tomorrow to help Hurricane Katrina evacuees now housed in the valley. I'll talk to a captain in the Salvation Army more about donations. But first, Merry Lucero spent some time yesterday at the donation center and has this report.

>> Merry Lucero:
A line of cars filed into the Salvation Army parking lot at Van Buren and 27th street in Phoenix. This is one way to give for the thousands of people who feel compelled to try to help.

>> Bruce Rogers:
People are really being wonderful. They have opened their hearts and checkbooks, they have opened up everything and really have supplied the refugees with everything they need.

>> Merry Lucero:
New shoes, clothing, hygiene products, water, diapers and other items pour in.

>> Somebody has to do something to help these folks.

>> This is the closest place that I could help contribute other than money over the internet.

>> They need it today, I might need it tomorrow. We have to give something of ourselves to fellow Americans. We are America. We are all together.

>> Merry Lucero:
New items are needed most.

>> Bruce Rogers:
the used items serve a purpose. We have maxed out the used items so we are stressing new items, especially men's clothing, we need larger sized men's pants and watches, eyeglasses, reading glasses, because when they left, they left a lot of that stuff behind.

>> Merry Lucero:
But for now, cash is best.

>> Bruce Rogers:
Cash donations enable us to really take care of the need that arises in an emergency situation, that maybe we haven't thought about.

>> Merry Lucero:
Donations will be accepted here Friday from 9 to 5.

>> Michael Grant:
With me now to tell us more about the Salvation Army's relief efforts for victims of the hurricane is Salvation Army Captain Adam Morales. You guys, this was just a tremendous outpouring. Did it catch you at least somewhat off guard?

>> Adam Morales:
No, we knew it would happen. It happens every time there is disaster. Everyone is really generous.

>> Michael Grant:
I know one of the figures that I heard, I think it was Tuesday, $100,000 in goods in about a 24 hour period?

>> Adam Morales:
Yes, it just started pouring in. By Tuesday, the -- the line was down the block.

>> Michael Grant:
What are the current conditions? We talked to someone at the Red Cross and got an update. Give us an idea what's happening at the coliseum.

>> Adam Morales:
Right now, there are about 450 victims living there. And there are many agencies set up to help the victims. Job fair will be going on. There's a, we have a distribution center of items we are collecting, we are distributing them to people at the coliseum.

>> Michael Grant:
It's difficult to imagine taking a facility not designed for that purpose and converting it as rapidly as it was that can house 450 people.

>> Adam Morales:
Right. Spaces are limited in areas, so it is a tight squeeze. It's not some place people would want to live for a long time.

>> Michael Grant:
let's get back to the effort here. What kind of donation needs have already been met for the Salvation Army?

>> Adam Morales:
Most of the goods in kind have met, the clothing, the diaper, the water, those have been met.

>> Michael Grant:
Personal items, those sort of things?

>> Adam Morales:
Right. We're full up on those items.

>> Michael Grant: What needs remain? Highest priority. We'll get to cash in a moment. Someone mentioned a couple of items on the tape piece, eyeglasses.

>> Adam Morales:
I think we're down to cash now. To meet those limited needs, like we needed 200 pair of reading glasses. If we said on the news we need reading glasses, we would have gotten 10,000 pair. With the cash, we can quickly go out and purchase those 200 reading glasses and deliver them to the folks that need them.

>> Michael Grant:
It gives you a lot more flexibility. I'm up to 1.75, I used to be at 1.50. Donation center is closing tomorrow?

>> Adam Morales:
Tomorrow at 5:00, yes.

>> Michael Grant:
How difficult have been the logistics been in this operation? I know you just received a ton of stuff.

>> Adam Morales:
We're used to it. We have structured set ups already, so we fall right into place.

>> Michael Grant:
What sort of role does Salvation Army play in disasters like this, other than just taking these donations?

>> Adam Morales:
The Salvation Army is always on the front line of disaster, the same as the Red Cross. Anything that needs to be done, the Salvation Army can do it, the feeding, housing, counseling. The difference between the Salvation Army and Red Cross is that the Salvation Army is there for the long term. When the disaster is declared over, the Salvation Army still remains to continue helping the victims in the communities.

>> Michael Grant:
Captain Adam Morales, you and the rest of the Salvation Army have our thanks.

>> Adam Morales:
Thank you.

>> Michael Grant:
If you'd like more information about "Horizon", go to our website at www.azpbs.org. Once you get to our home page, click on the word "Horizon" to see if transcripts or information about upcoming shows. Speaking of which, tomorrow the Friday journalists' roundtable will not be seen so that we can bring you a live concert to raise funds for hurricane Katrina victims. Sheryl Crow, Rod Stewart, Ellen DeGeneres and Chris rock are among the stars expected to help raise funds during the one-hour event. That's tomorrow here on channel 8. Thanks for being here this evening. I'm Michael Grant. Good night.

Urban League Anniversary


  • For 60 years now, the Urban League of Phoenix has been serving the needs of the underprivileged in the Valley. George Dean of the Urban League talks about his organization, which originally started to serve the needs of African-Americans, but expanded to serve the needs of the underprivileged of all races.
Guests:
  • Dr. George Watson - Professor of Political Science, Arizona State University
  • George Dean - President and CEO, Greater Phoenix Urban League
  • Adam Morales - Salvation Army Captain


View Transcript
>> Michael Grant:
Tonight on "Horizon", John Roberts' nomination has been elevated from Justice to Chief Justice after the death of Chief Justice William Rehnquist. We'll talk about the implications of that. For 60 years now, the Phoenix Urban League has been helping the disadvantaged. We'll have more on what the Urban League does. Plus, a look at the local Salvation Army donation center which is brimming with donated items for the victims of hurricane Katrina. More on those topics next on "Horizon".

>> Announcer:
"Horizon" is made possible by the friends of Channel 8, members who provide financial support to this Arizona PBS station. Thank you.

>> Michael Grant:
Good evening and welcome to "Horizon". I'm Michael Grant. Before we get to our main topics tonight, Maricopa County has reported its first West Nile virus death for the 2005 season. A northwest valley man in his 60s died from West Nile on Monday. It was confirmed just today that the death was indeed from West Nile. So far this year, 21 lab-confirmed human cases of West Nile have been reported in Maricopa County. Chief justice William Rehnquist was laid to rest yesterday. Rehnquist, who worked as a lawyer in Phoenix during the 50's and 60's, died of cancer over the weekend. Soon after, President Bush renominated John Roberts to the position of Chief Justice. Here now to talk about the nomination and the changes on the court is Dr. George Watson, professor of political science in the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. George has written a book on the Supreme Court nomination process titled: "Shaping America: The Politics of Supreme Court appointments." George, I didn't know there were politics involved in Supreme Court nominations. Bite your tongue.

>> George Watson:
Every nomination is political whether it's controversial or non-controversial. So if the President chooses to go the non controversial route, that's a political decision. And I think with Bush we'll probably see some controversy.

>> Michael Grant: I have heard a couple of different theories, let me get yours. Was it good politics for the president to look around and say, well, you know, on second thought why doesn't John Roberts become CJ instead of associate justice or not?

>> George Watson: I think it probably was good politics for the president. There is some speculation that maybe Roberts was being put on the court for eventual elevation to chief justice anyway. I think he was very intent on getting the chief justice position filled. I think it was a good move on his part.

>> Michael Grant:
There are mixed opinions on that. One other theory is that, well, with the elevation to the chief justice, this gives John Roberts more clout, certainly the opportunity to leave a stronger, longer legacy perhaps than associate justice. That could make the confirmation process more difficult. I think one of the problems with that theory is that everyone is sort of general agreement that John Roberts is going to be confirmed.

>> George Watson:
I think there's no doubt that he will be confirmed pending some surprise that none of us seem to know about. I think he will be a good chief justice. He's already quite well known to the justices on the court. They seem to highly respect him. I think he will probably do well as a chief justice.

>> Michael Grant:
If memory serves, something like 29 occurrences before the high court. That's quite a record for an attorney.

>> George Watson:
That's a good number.

>> Michael Grant:
That's right. What are you hearing about John Roberts' confirmation hearings start on Monday but there's this associate justice position hanging around. What are you hearing recently about the speed President Bush will move to fill the second spot?

>> George Watson:
Initially the president said he was going to fill it very quickly. Then they had second thoughts about doing that. The thought of having two vacancies being filled at the same time could have played into the Democrats' hands a little bit in terms of flexibility for choosing the way they might oppose even Roberts. So, they went ahead and made the Roberts nomination. Now they're going to hold off a little bit, probably to make sure that the Roberts issue is moot and no longer available as an issue and also because now the president is constrained a little more on the choice for the O'Connor replacement. They may want to have second thoughts about who they are going to pick for that position.

>> Michael Grant:
When did Supreme Court nominations become a contact sport?

>> George Watson:
A lot of people would argue it was with Robert Bork in 1987,because that was certainly a rejection of a nominee where there was advertising in the newspaper and so forth, but you can go back a long ways to Justice Brandeis in 1916. I think the advent of television, broadcasting the hearings with Sandra O'Connor has elevated to this public attention, particularly if senators know they can get television time, advocacy groups know they can get more television time, they're going to pay more attention.

>> Michael Grant:
I have thought from time to time it was the Watergate hearings that maybe triggered the general thought. You're absolutely right the Sandra O'Connor hearings were the first broadcast gavel to gavel. Senators saw the opportunity to play a number of roles, I think, correct?

>> George Watson:
I think so. There are certainly a number of different roles they can play. One, there may be some who have not made up their mind about the nominee so we would like to think -- a lot of people would like to think that the senators are there evaluating the justice, not having any idea what they're going to do until they hear from him. There probably aren't very many of those on the Senate judiciary committee right now.

>> Michael Grant:
Asking a question and really wanting an answer.

>> George Watson:
And really wanting an answer that can help them make a decision.

>> Michael Grant:
Let's rule that one out.

>> George Watson:
Well, ruling that one out, there are also going to be some partisans. Oren Hatch, I would be surprised if Oren Hatch didn't open up by saying how wonderful the nominee is, how wonderful Roberts is, how well suited he is for the chief justice position, how he's done this and that. And then he will ask Roberts questions that are designed to make Roberts look really good. There are some democrats who aren't quite ready to do that. I don't think there are any Democrats ready to say we are frankly opposed to Roberts, but there are some who would fulfill the role, I call it a validater role. Some of these Democrats are pretty sure they are going they're going to vote for Roberts. They are going to ask some very challenging and penetrating questions to see how he responds. It's conceivable, not too likely, but conceivable that Roberts could stumble. The validater role could turn into a no vote.

>> Michael Grant: One of the things I saw during the O'Connor hearings and subsequent hearings was sensitizing, on an issue.

>> George Watson:
That's a big role, I labeled that one an advocate role. For example, Joseph Biden knew he would vote for Sandra O'Connor, but he wanted to influence her to stand up for women's issues. He gave a passionate speech about her being the first woman on the court, it was her duty to speak forth on women's issues, and be a role model and so forth. There are many senators who will try to get in the nominee's head and try to get at some of these issues.

>> Michael Grant:
Tough to forcast, but any particular role that you think would be most predominant in next week's confirmation hearings?

>> George Watson:
I think among the Republicans you are going to see partisan roles in allowing Roberts to look good. When you get down the line, where it's harder and harder to ask questions, you may ask questions more in this advocate role where you're not necessarily trying to get in the justice's mind but playing to your constituents, that you're here on Capitol hill doing the job. The Democrat side, the validater role, you'll see those people trying to get into Roberts' head and say we're concerned about the direction of the court and we're concerned about you and some of these issues.

>> Michael Grant:
Let me cycle back to the associate justice position. I think we have agreed it's not going to happen soon, but would the president be likely, though, once John Roberts clears the nomination, he does have a commitment of course from Justice O'Connor that she will stay until a replacement is in place. But does he do that late September, mid October? Does he hold off for awhile longer?

>> George Watson:
I would anticipate he would do is sooner rather than later. I think he would like to replace O'Connor. She is still is that middle vote and I think he would just as soon see her off the court replaced by someone more conservative. This is the nomination to key on, this is the nomination where everybody may take the gloves off and battle. Depends on whether Bush wants a battle or not. It's up to him to make the initial choice and up to the opposition to decide whether they can fight a battle on it.

>> Michael Grant:
Do you subscribe that the next nomination needs to be a woman or minority?

>> George Watson:
I would be disappointed if he didn't do that, I fully expect him not to go with an Anglo male. He is more constrained now. This could be his last nomination to the court. I think he would like to appoint the first Latino to the court.

>> Michael Grant:
George Watson, always a pleasure, thank you.

>> George Watson:
Thank you.

>>Michael Grant:
Racism against black Americans was rampant in Phoenix during the 1940's as it was all across America. The city had been settled by whites and blacks from the south, and they brought racial attitudes from that region of the country to the valley. In the heat of that oppression, the Phoenix urban league was founded. We'll talk to the head of the greater Phoenix urban league. But first, Mike Sauceda tells us more about conditions faced by blacks during the 1940's.

>> Mike Sauceda:
At the start of the 1940's, Phoenix was a relatively small town, just over 65,000 people. 4200 of those residents were African Americans. About six and a half percent of the population. Although the city boasted wide avenues and continuing progress, things were not as rosy for blacks and other minorities.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
The first thing I think of is Ralph Ellison, the invisible man. Because to a certain extent, African Americans were experiencing the various problems of progress that exist in all communities. At the same time, they were living against the backdrop of a segregated society. Things like this get folks talking, so sometimes you have to engage controversial topics to get folks emotions up, so they start speaking.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Dr. Matthew Whitaker is an associate professor of history at Arizona state University, who specializes in African American history. He says blacks were confined to the southern part of the Phoenix, many living in substandard housing.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
They were for the most part. You had some of the highest numbers of substandard housing in those particular areas. Some areas were fortunate to have clean water. We're talking about, in some areas squalor, quite frankly..

>> Mike Sauceda:
In the 1940's, while there were black professionals and business owners, the majority of African Americans worked in menial jobs.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
You were considered a professional if you were fortunate to be a teacher. If you were a bellhop, that was considered a quote unquote good job. You worked inside, wore a uniform. You made more money thank folks working the field. By and large, most African Americans worked in agricultural positions, menial positions, they picked cotton. They farmed. They worked on ranches. Black women for the most part were domestic workers.

>> Mike Sauceda:
Although Arizona did not have Jim Crow laws, segregation existed on all levels of society for blacks in Phoenix.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
Schools were segregated, places of public accommodation were segregated. I don't know of any specific code that was passed, like you would find in Mississippi or Alabama, that segregated people of color specifically African American. But this was a very segregated city and everyone understood it was segregated.

>> Mike Sauceda:
It was in the atmosphere of oppression and racism that the Phoenix Urban League was formed in September of 1945, aimed at helping blacks get into professional jobs and deal with living in an urban area. The urban league here formed 35 years after the first urban league was founded in New York City. Today the urban league has expanded to help people of all races with employment, housing, education, and business advice. Whitaker says, despite progress made against discrimination, there is still a need for the urban league.

>> Matthew Whitaker:
As long as that exists, as long as you have urbanites who, for whatever reason, stand at the margins and who need to be incorporated into the possibilities of the urban community, there will be a home for institutions like the urban league.

>> Michael Grant:
Here now to tell us about the urban league is the president and CEO of the greater Phoenix urban league, George Dean. George, happy 60th!

>> George Dean:
Thank you, Michael. Thank you for having me here, number one. And thank you for saying happy 60th. We're very excited about it.

>> Michael Grant:
How long have you been involved with the urban league?

>> George Dean:
30-plus years. We're very happy that the urban league has been able to survive. And provide services to residents of the valley of the sun for 60 years. When you see the kind of conditions and situations that the society was in during that period of time and to have survived that and still be going strong today, we think is quite an accomplishment, we feel good about it.

>> Michael Grant:
Survive and prosper. Let's go back to 1945. Sympathetic whites were involved, as well, in the founding of the urban league, were they not?

>> George Dean:
Very much so. That has been the history of the urban league. The national urban league started in 1910, because of some sympathetic whites in New York City. It spread and 35 years later, the same thing happened here in Phoenix. There have always been, we have always had a society with good people, and people concerned about fellow human beings, regardless whether they are black, brown, white, whatever. That certainly was the case as far as those individuals back in 1944 and actually getting it started in 1945.

>> Michael Grant:
Over the intervening six decades, the mission of the league expanded from just black to disadvantaged.

>> George Dean:
I think that came about because of the 1964 civil rights act that talked about you can't discriminate based on race, creed, color and so forth. And came to the realization of the urban league, not only in Phoenix, but nationwide that there are people that are disadvantaged, that can utilize the kind of services that we have to provide all over and that is especially true here in the southwest, I would say, in Arizona where we represent some 4\% of the population. The largest minority, the largest poverty, the largest disadvantaged individuals are not necessarily all African Americans.

>> Michael Grant:
Let's take it to 2005 and talk about some of the urban league programs. You have a head start program?

>> George Dean:
Yes, we do. I like to say the urban league serves from the cradle to the grave. We start with head start with three and four-year-olds. We also have a charter school that we operate in conjunction with Arizona opportunities industrialization center. We have a college prep program for high school students, starting in freshman years, preparing them to take the SAT exam and get them, that will get them scores to enter into college or universities in the country. We do computer training from an educational standpoint. We do small business assistance from an educational standpoint, taking entrepreneurs or those who want to be entrepreneurs and assisting them in how to start a business, how to write a business plan, how to put a loan package together. These are all factors of things that we do in terms of educating individuals.

>> Michael Grant:
Housing programs?

>> George Dean:
Very important. Very important. Needless to say -

>> Michael Grant:
Particularly in this real estate market.

>> George Dean:
Affordable housing is really at a critical state and has been for awhile. We have a senior citizen project, section 8, for some 24 years. Seniors 62 and older. We started with a private developer in terms of a partnership to build affordable housing throughout this valley here. I'm very pleased to say that we have been able to come up with almost 800 units of affordable housing units that we are doing in a partnership with a developer that is making the difference in lives of a lot of people.

>> Michael Grant:
George Dean, greater Phoenix urban league, thanks for being here. And again, congratulations on number 60.

>> George Dean:
Thank you, Mike.

>> Michael Grant:
One newspaper account described a stack of boxed diapers the size of a Toyota at the Salvation Army's donation center in southwest Phoenix. The center will continue accepting donations through tomorrow to help Hurricane Katrina evacuees now housed in the valley. I'll talk to a captain in the Salvation Army more about donations. But first, Merry Lucero spent some time yesterday at the donation center and has this report.

>> Merry Lucero:
A line of cars filed into the Salvation Army parking lot at Van Buren and 27th street in Phoenix. This is one way to give for the thousands of people who feel compelled to try to help.

>> Bruce Rogers:
People are really being wonderful. They have opened their hearts and checkbooks, they have opened up everything and really have supplied the refugees with everything they need.

>> Merry Lucero:
New shoes, clothing, hygiene products, water, diapers and other items pour in.

>> Somebody has to do something to help these folks.

>> This is the closest place that I could help contribute other than money over the internet.

>> They need it today, I might need it tomorrow. We have to give something of ourselves to fellow Americans. We are America. We are all together.

>> Merry Lucero:
New items are needed most.

>> Bruce Rogers:
the used items serve a purpose. We have maxed out the used items so we are stressing new items, especially men's clothing, we need larger sized men's pants and watches, eyeglasses, reading glasses, because when they left, they left a lot of that stuff behind.

>> Merry Lucero:
But for now, cash is best.

>> Bruce Rogers:
Cash donations enable us to really take care of the need that arises in an emergency situation, that maybe we haven't thought about.

>> Merry Lucero:
Donations will be accepted here Friday from 9 to 5.

>> Michael Grant:
With me now to tell us more about the Salvation Army's relief efforts for victims of the hurricane is Salvation Army Captain Adam Morales. You guys, this was just a tremendous outpouring. Did it catch you at least somewhat off guard?

>> Adam Morales:
No, we knew it would happen. It happens every time there is disaster. Everyone is really generous.

>> Michael Grant:
I know one of the figures that I heard, I think it was Tuesday, $100,000 in goods in about a 24 hour period?

>> Adam Morales:
Yes, it just started pouring in. By Tuesday, the -- the line was down the block.

>> Michael Grant:
What are the current conditions? We talked to someone at the Red Cross and got an update. Give us an idea what's happening at the coliseum.

>> Adam Morales:
Right now, there are about 450 victims living there. And there are many agencies set up to help the victims. Job fair will be going on. There's a, we have a distribution center of items we are collecting, we are distributing them to people at the coliseum.

>> Michael Grant:
It's difficult to imagine taking a facility not designed for that purpose and converting it as rapidly as it was that can house 450 people.

>> Adam Morales:
Right. Spaces are limited in areas, so it is a tight squeeze. It's not some place people would want to live for a long time.

>> Michael Grant:
let's get back to the effort here. What kind of donation needs have already been met for the Salvation Army?

>> Adam Morales:
Most of the goods in kind have met, the clothing, the diaper, the water, those have been met.

>> Michael Grant:
Personal items, those sort of things?

>> Adam Morales:
Right. We're full up on those items.

>> Michael Grant: What needs remain? Highest priority. We'll get to cash in a moment. Someone mentioned a couple of items on the tape piece, eyeglasses.

>> Adam Morales:
I think we're down to cash now. To meet those limited needs, like we needed 200 pair of reading glasses. If we said on the news we need reading glasses, we would have gotten 10,000 pair. With the cash, we can quickly go out and purchase those 200 reading glasses and deliver them to the folks that need them.

>> Michael Grant:
It gives you a lot more flexibility. I'm up to 1.75, I used to be at 1.50. Donation center is closing tomorrow?

>> Adam Morales:
Tomorrow at 5:00, yes.

>> Michael Grant:
How difficult have been the logistics been in this operation? I know you just received a ton of stuff.

>> Adam Morales:
We're used to it. We have structured set ups already, so we fall right into place.

>> Michael Grant:
What sort of role does Salvation Army play in disasters like this, other than just taking these donations?

>> Adam Morales:
The Salvation Army is always on the front line of disaster, the same as the Red Cross. Anything that needs to be done, the Salvation Army can do it, the feeding, housing, counseling. The difference between the Salvation Army and Red Cross is that the Salvation Army is there for the long term. When the disaster is declared over, the Salvation Army still remains to continue helping the victims in the communities.

>> Michael Grant:
Captain Adam Morales, you and the rest of the Salvation Army have our thanks.

>> Adam Morales:
Thank you.

>> Michael Grant:
If you'd like more information about "Horizon", go to our website at www.azpbs.org. Once you get to our home page, click on the word "Horizon" to see if transcripts or information about upcoming shows. Speaking of which, tomorrow the Friday journalists' roundtable will not be seen so that we can bring you a live concert to raise funds for hurricane Katrina victims. Sheryl Crow, Rod Stewart, Ellen DeGeneres and Chris rock are among the stars expected to help raise funds during the one-hour event. That's tomorrow here on channel 8. Thanks for being here this evening. I'm Michael Grant. Good night.

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